I understand that point Rothko but if all three dragons just fly around roasting Lannisters and Greyjoys there is no drama in that battle. Martin always ups the drama and tests for his characters. I think one of the dragons die. I could be wrong but I'm sticking to it.
Wait, where did a 3-headed dragon come into the equation??

The last episode made it clear that the Lannisters are preparing to fight dragons, have a weapon to use against them, and that it's effective.

I think it's pretty clear that, at least, one dragon will die (frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if all three died).
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
I understand that point Rothko but if all three dragons just fly around roasting Lannisters and Greyjoys there is no drama in that battle. Martin always ups the drama and tests for his characters. I think one of the dragons die. I could be wrong but I'm sticking to it.


The real point is that the 3-headed dragon is needed because dragons will be needed to fight the Others (white Walkers/Night's King in the show) and will be flown by 3 characters - it is up for debate who those 3 are - largely believed to be Dany, Jon and the third is open to debate - many believe Tyrion - some believe Bran either directly or through Three-Eyed Raven powers - It is quite possible a dragon will die in the show (and possibly the books) but that runs up against the 3 Heads of the Dragon theories.

Time will tell
quote:
Originally posted by Jorgerunfast:
JC, but why a "3-headed dragon"?

I understand they'll need dragons, and will obviously start off with 3 of them, but just because one dies in battle doesn't mean there weren't three to begin with.... Confused



Lots of options - google it. For history read The World of Ice and Fire.

Historically - Aegon the Conqueror and his 2 sisters had 3 dragons with which they conquered Westeros. When Dany is in the House of the Undying - there are multiple references to the dragon having 3 heads.

Combining these and there are many other hints - came the widely held theory that the 3 dragons will have 3 riders . . .

Whether it will happen or not remains to be seen.
Where I'm losing you guys is that having one dragon killed doesn't ruin the 3-dragon theory.

3 Dragons fly into Westeros, kicking ass, burning up some delicious gyro meat, and destroying the Lannister and Greyjoy army. In the process, one dies, but the Lannister's and Greyjoy's are already dead / dying - so the 3 dragons prophecy still comes true... just that one dies in the end.

Anyway, yeah, we'll wait and see.

Good stuff!
quote:
Originally posted by Jorgerunfast:
Where I'm losing you guys is that having one dragon killed doesn't ruin the 3-dragon theory.

3 Dragons fly into Westeros, kicking ass, burning up some delicious gyro meat, and destroying the Lannister and Greyjoy army. In the process, one dies, but the Lannister's and Greyjoy's are already dead / dying - so the 3 dragons prophecy still comes true... just that one dies in the end.

Anyway, yeah, we'll wait and see.

Good stuff!


It is not a 3 dragon theory - it is that there are 3 people flying the 3 dragons. Dragon power does not mean the dragons fly around doing what they want. Dragons need riders. There are 3 meaning 3 people are needed. We are not there yet. If one is killed, that eliminates this theory/prophecy - which may well happen.

Lannister armies are not central to the real plot - this is a sideshow. Ice and Fire- White Walkers - the Others - that is where the big fight will be and what dragon fire might be useful for. Hell in the books, the Lannisters are barely even hanging on my a threat - Cersei is much much stupider, more incompetent and much much crazier - there is a whole other force (not existing in the show) that will likely have control of Kings Landing by the time the story is at this point
I don't think that Martin ever intended to have quite so many twists and turns as people expect in the TV show (or on the internet). It's like viewers will be upset if there aren't some more major surprises or sudden deaths, or beloved characters dying.

I think his original twist ending was the R+L=J reveal. I can remember reading the books for the first time, thinking it was a great story about Robb Stark getting revenge for Ned's death, and then being blown away by the Red Wedding and coming to realize that the story wasn't about Robb Stark at all, but about Jon Snow and the Others.
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
I don't think that Martin ever intended to have quite so many twists and turns as people expect in the TV show (or on the internet). It's like viewers will be upset if there aren't some more major surprises or sudden deaths, or beloved characters dying.

I think his original twist ending was the R+L=J reveal. I can remember reading the books for the first time, thinking it was a great story about Robb Stark getting revenge for Ned's death, and then being blown away by the Red Wedding and coming to realize that the story wasn't about Robb Stark at all, but about Jon Snow and the Others.


If you read the books more than once and the World of Ice and Fire - I think you would be surprised at how many twists and history were planned - The Prologue of the first book starts with the Others - which was a major sign that they were of critical importance. While I can't say I had any idea where the story was going either, I knew Jon was critically important right away
As Melisandre said in the most recent episode......"prophecies are dangerous things".

Gonzo theory I saw from a commenter on the i09 board was Cersei becoming the Night Queen, and raising one of Cersei's dragons that dies in battle. She'd then be riding an Ice Dragon into battle.
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
Very good season so far. Last night's battle was well done.

Was I the only one that thought that Dany was moving in on Jon Snow to kiss him? Part of me was hoping yes, and part of me was saying "no."


I thought so too. I'm feeling some sexual tension building there...
quote:
Originally posted by mjraica:
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
Very good season so far. Last night's battle was well done.

Was I the only one that thought that Dany was moving in on Jon Snow to kiss him? Part of me was hoping yes, and part of me was saying "no."


I thought so too. I'm feeling some sexual tension building there...

They appeared to be holding hands as they exited the cave. All in all, a pleasant first date for both of them.

How many times did Bron escape death? Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
quote:
Originally posted by mjraica:
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
Very good season so far. Last night's battle was well done.

Was I the only one that thought that Dany was moving in on Jon Snow to kiss him? Part of me was hoping yes, and part of me was saying "no."


I thought so too. I'm feeling some sexual tension building there...

They appeared to be holding hands as they exited the cave. All in all, a pleasant first date for both of them.

How many times did Bron escape death? Roll Eyes


I thought they were holding hands too at first, but it was just the camera angle. In the cave scene, it almost seemed like Dany was ready to bend the knee herself, if you catch my drift.

Ayra's scene was awesome. In a way, I think nobody other than Brienne ever took her seriously.

Stannis would be proud that Davos took up his Grammar-Nazi mantle.

So much sadness and suffering at the last battle scene, I literately cried and froze up the moment...... when Bron dropped his gold and contemplated. No Gold, No Castle, only a fat Lady Lolis. Razz Razz Razz
The Sansa/Arya reunion was flat...poor writing. I can't think GRRM signed off on that scene.

Even thought the battle had its moment, there was implausibility that made for some cheesy moments, such as Bronn handling the crossbow so effortlessly, and getting off, like, 5 shots. And cinematographically speaking, I would have like lento have seen a better wide angle shot of the battle.

And for Christ sakes, you have an effing dragon....come in from the flank and cook the whole line in one pass...minimize your exposure. The enemy line will break and let your cavalry do the rest. I was thinking if Jaime possibly survives this, I'm going to start writing screenplays.

Other than that it was pretty good Razz
He only got two shots off. A practice shot (which almost hit), and the second shot which brought down the dragon. Excellent marksmanship for Bronn.

Still, since they had the scorpion wagon, where was the dedicated AA crew for that weapon? Why weren't they firing it?

Also, since they had the AA wagon, that meant that they anticipated seeing a dragon. Which means you should have anticipated the napalm attack on your bunched-up troops.

The fact is, without similar air support or very effective anti-aircraft (one scorpion is not sufficient AA), the Lannister army was toast (pun intended) from the get-go.
Ok so finally caught up this season.

Wtf, why does every army/navy get caught completely off guard?

Only Euron's half of the Iron Fleet knows how to scout?

The Lannister/Tarly army marchs from the Crownlands all the way to Highgarden and the Tyrells can't put up a decent defense? The Reach has the largest standing army in Westeros and the Tarlys are not the most powerful house. House Hightower is probably the most powerful non-great house. And the rationale for why they lost a siege in few days is "we're not good at fighting"?

Seasoned battle commanders like Jaime Lannister and Randyll Tarly are caught completely off guard by a Dothraki horde? Please.

Also, it seemed pretty unlikely that Jaime Lannister of all people, a man with no honor left in the eyes of the people, was able to convince someone like Randyll Tarly to betray a house he's been loyal to for his entire life to fight for someone like Cersei. Especially given that there was a Targaryen army off the coast, a King in the North, a defiant Dorne, and his sworn Lord in open rebellion. Self-preservation seemed illogical. And Tarly was not Roose Bolton or Walder Frey.

Despite the plot holes, I'm loving it.
Danyull,

Agree with you completely on the lack of scouts. Any decent army would have outriders, scouts and pickets at least 10-20 miles out. The Lannisters should never have been caught like that in the field. As King Robert once said, only a fool meets the Dothraki in the open field.

It's even harder for a fleet to fall upon another by surprise.

And I agree about House Tarly. They were bannermen to House Tyrell. I don't recall anything about Cersei promising to make them the replacement House for Highgarden, but maybe that happened.

Still, if everything was logical and militarily sound, it would be a much longer, more boring show.
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
Dudes, there are dragons, ice zombies and people being brought back to life. Can we chill on the lack of military realism?


Yes, but what I thought was very good about Martin's books was that while magic existed in his world, it was very rare. It's not like walking around in Hogwarts where even the paintings on the wall moved. For most people in Westeros, magic didn't even exist. No one in Westeros had seen a dragon (which technically isn't magical) in 300 years, or ice zombies in thousands of years. Asking a Westerosi to believe in an ice zombie is like asking you or me to believe in an animated mummy.

So, you should expect Westerosi armies to be very conventional in their tactics, for the most part. Of course, now that they've seen that dragons are real, they are going to have to adjust.
I can incorporate the fantasy aspects into the world easily.

But it just doesn't fit with how much political strategy is going around for everyone to be military eff-ups. It just seems like the show writers are lazy.

Euron is able to ambush two separate fleets on opposite sides of a continent? Westeros is at LEAST the size of California, it would take more than a few days to sail around Dorne, back up the Reach and up to the Westerlands at Casterly Rock. Come on.

Also, Dragonstone is pretty close to Kings Landing. How did they have no idea about Eurons gigantic fleet anchored off Kings Landing.

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