French Wine

Similar concerns from fellow forumite were addressed by me in a memo found here.

Uh Thanks Grunhauser,
So that is what I am tasting.

Exactement. Soyez conseillé! Il est très provoquant une dépendance.

Exsctly. I have been counselled. It will provoke my dependence.

Is that some sort of insult?

quote:

Originally posted by spo1977:


Is that some sort of insult?

I don't know. What do you think?

Spo,
Don't fret....some french wines tend to be a bit more acidic, which can be interpreted as "sour". Try some from the Cote du Rhone, which can be a bit bigger (sometimes) , and more "new world" in flavor. Not always, though.

quote:

Originally posted by grunhauser:

quote:

Originally posted by spo1977:


Is that some sort of insult?

I don't know. What do you think?

For a second I thought in a round about way you were saying I like the smell/taste of French Men's testes. But then I thought Grunhaser would not say a thing like that, impossible. Something must have gotten lost in translation.

quote:

Originally posted by redwine&redsox:
Spo,
Don't fret....some french wines tend to be a bit more acidic, which can be interpreted as "sour". Try some from the Cote du Rhone, which can be a bit bigger (sometimes) , and more "new world" in flavor. Not always, though.

Are the Cotes Du Rhone wines usually a blend of Syrah, Mouvedre, Grenache?

quote:

Originally posted by spo1977:

For a second I thought in a round about way you were saying I like the smell/taste of French Men's testes.

Your initial post suggested otherwise and that's exactly what I was pointing out. The Frenchman's testes profile found in Old World wines is not for everyone.



p.s. May I suggest CdR Villages? For a few dollars more you will discover that these are some of the best value wines from France - complex, full of individuality, very terroir driven and so excellent with food (meats and cheeses).

My favorites for reds - Cairanne, Vinsobres, Valreas. I like white CdR even more, but they are hard to find here.

quote:

Originally posted by grunhauser:

p.s. May I suggest CdR Villages? For a few dollars more you will discover that these are some of the best value wines from France - complex, full of individuality, very terroir driven and so excellent with food (meats and cheeses).

My favorites for reds - Cairanne, Vinsombres, Valreas. I like white CdR even more, but they are hard to find here.

I am always open to suggestions.

The local beverages and more had Cotes du Rhone ranging from $8-$20. Some of the ones they offered were Luois Bernard (a red and a white), Guigal, Chateau de Segries and Grandes Serres. Are you familiar with any of these?

There is a nicer wine shop in San Diego, I may head over there to find some of the ones you reccomended. All the same let me know if you are familiar with any of the ones I listed and if they are any good.

Head to San Diego.

p.s. btw, I'm ashamed to admit but I just noticed I wrote Vinsombres, when in fact the village name is Vinsobres.
Look for Domaine Gramenon.

quote:

Originally posted by grunhauser:
Head to San Diego.

p.s. btw, I'm ashamed to admit but I just noticed I wrote Vinsombres, when in fact the village name is Vinsobres.
Look for Domaine Gramenon.

I googled the mispelt Vinsombres w/o the Cotes du Rhone and found a vacation place in France with a pretty sweet pool. I was thinking that Grunhauser has a wild sense of humour. http://www.cassitrans.com/page.php?lang=fr&agence_id=90...ction_reference.html

If I cannot find the Vinsobres locally, a ton of online retailers have it at a reasonable price $13-$17. Probably best to wait for the wheather to cool at the end of October. I will let you know how it turns out.

quote:

Originally posted by spo1977:
Are the Cotes Du Rhone wines usually a blend of Syrah, Mouvedre, Grenache?

Most of the time, yes. However, they can be all kinds of wild blends, especially if you get into some of the chataneuf du papes. Try the Guigal wines, and let us know what you think.

Comparing French wine to Californian is a gross generalization. If you consider that in Hugh Johnson and Jancis Robinson's World Atlas of Wine one hundred pages ares dedicated to France (over one third of the pages for regions) and less than thirty devoted to the whole of North America you can see the problem.

France's wine-making is incredibly diverse and would take a lifetime to cover. In the South there are wines you can find alcoholic fruit bombs that would make Australians blush. In Alsace you can find delicate dry whites and even in the beast of Bordeaux there is an immense diversity covering stringent Sauvignon Blancs, botrytised Semillons, plummy Merlots and savage Cabs. Not even mentioning the classic blends that make it one of the greatest wine regions in the World.

What I'm saying is: try some other stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by KillerB:
Comparing French wine to Californian is a gross generalization. If you consider that in Hugh Johnson and Jancis Robinson's World Atlas of Wine one hundred pages ares dedicated to France (over one third of the pages for regions) and less than thirty devoted to the whole of North America you can see the problem.

France's wine-making is incredibly diverse and would take a lifetime to cover. In the South there are wines you can find alcoholic fruit bombs that would make Australians blush. In Alsace you can find delicate dry whites and even in the beast of Bordeaux there is an immense diversity covering stringent Sauvignon Blancs, botrytised Semillons, plummy Merlots and savage Cabs. Not even mentioning the classic blends that make it one of the greatest wine regions in the World.

What I'm saying is: try some other stuff.

Well put KillerB. France has so many wine regions and even within each region you can get a wide variation in styles and blends. There are sooooo many amazing French wines that it is not fair to generalize them as all tannic or more tannic than California.

As a side note: When I first started drinking wine I thought all sweet wines were terrible. Actually I was just drinking crappy sweet wine. Then I went to Bordeaux and tried some Sauternes and wow was that an eye opener

Do what KillerB recommends and try lots different wines. It is amazing what is out there.

Jason

obviously, we are all talking gross generalizations here. The original question was if there were French wines that tended to be a bit less acidic (in a round-a-bout way), I was just replying with one example of French wines that fit this profile.

quote:

when in fact the village name is Vinsobres. Red Face
Look for Domaine Gramenon.

Grun,

Is this one ok. The Gramenon is $85.00.

There are cheaper Gramenons. The one you refer to is from 100 year old vines, so yeah, it's gonna cost.

Your choice is fine. And I found another one for you to try - Gourgazaud Minervois.

Both are good to drink now. Don't serve them too warm, expecially the CdR. Have fun.


p.s. Gourgazaud Viognier.

quote:

p.s. Gourgazaud Viognier. Wink Wink

Is that a white Cotes Du Rhone?

And thanks for lending your expertise.

Vin de Pays, but don't let that discourage you. Here's some info.

It's 5pm and I'm still working hard....I can kill for a glass of that Viogner right now.

So Grun,

I take that you prefer that smell of Frenchman's testes in the wine you drink?

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Feelgood:
So Grun,

I take that...

You take it Doc, and you run with it to meet the horizon.

quote:

Originally posted by spo1977:
Is this the tannins?

nope, most likely the price of the samples.

I am beginning to like this French Wine stuff. I would be a fool to shun the new world in favor of these, but sometimes I find myself craving a dry, sour wine.

I just ordered a whole case from KLWines. I cannot wait. I got some Loire Valley, a little Bordeux, and a Cotes Du Rhone, and finally not from France but a Primitvo from Italy.

Question?

I just had a Rhone blend and I used my aeration funnel and decanter. The fruit was almost nonexistent till the finish. For a wine like a Cotes du Rhone is it better not to decant and just pour from the bottle to the glass? I know oxygen can work against some wines quickly, is this an example?

quote:

I know oxygen can work against some wines quickly, is this an example?

It depends on a few different factors, spo1977. Perhaps you should refer back to this thread and observe Schoolmarm's comments. Decanting is a good choice if you're drinking a young, well-balanced fruitbomb that's meant to be aged. If it's just your run-of-the-mill Cote-du-Rhone Village or the like, you may have just oxidized the the fruit right out of the wine.

quote:

you may have just oxidized the the fruit right out of the wine.

I did not think it could happen that fast. The idea did not occur to me till after I drank the wine.

quote:

I did not think it could happen that fast. The idea did not occur to me till after I drank the wine.

It's interesting--I've even heard of some well aged (15+ yrs) Bordeaux oxidizing within minutes when decanted. Opinions seem to be extremely varied when it comes to the question of decanting.

Also, I want to note that in my previous post, I was not implying that 'run-of-the-mill' village level wines are inferior and subject to quick structural disintegration. In good vintages, there are some really wonderful village wines that show wonderful structure. One of my favorites right now is 2003 Le Bourgogne de Louis Latour. Great for it's price point. I wouldn't decant it though.

Try Chateau Greysac from Medoc. Very easy to drink, but still maintains the...dignity I would say, of a bordeaux. And, its about $18 a bottle.

Lisa Rene,

Thanks for the reccomendation. Would it be fair to say that Medoc is the ready to drink Bordeaux?

Yes there is a big difference between French and califorinan wines.

More tannic ?
The tannic comes from the grapes, the more you press the grapes, the more you'll have tanins.

I think the main difference is the complexity of wines. French wines are for many more complex than the US wines.
And THE real problem for french wines, is that now, people who drink wines, prefer new taste, more fruity or more simple in their sensation composition (a taste of red fruits etc ...)
And French wines have the second problem : Their wines have to be for many, stocked during a long time to acquier their best.

And for many people now who drink wine like coke in clucs, they cant drink french wines because these are certainly too hard and strengh full for their habits.
Young people are use to drink coke or other drinks. And they begin to be used to easy drinks, and not in a complex wine.


Californian have a good approach of wines, generally you find only yhe name of the cepage on the bottle, and the name of the producer.
But it's easily readable.
And their bottle can be drink on the year, just after you bought it.


And for a generalisation of wines more tanic and acid in france, i think it's a question of experience in wines.

If people used to drink easy wines, sure we'll loose a big knowledge and one of the better wines allover the world.

Stop the juces in win bottles. I speak for many many wines of the new world, big production of wine that will arrive in some years and for winegrower who produce their wine for the demand, and not for the passion of respecting wine and its history

I identify with the original OP. I have tasted and had several French wines with great meals--in France, no less, in case the air matters. I have tasted in Chablis, Beaune and Dijon (so Burgundy), and I still find French wines harsh on my palate. BTW, when not drinking wine, my beverages of choice are milk with breakfast and water with lunch and dinner, so the soda-palate explanation doesn't quite fly with me.

The alternative for me has been California wines, which seem to agree with me much better. Interestingly, about half a year ago I discovered Louis Jadot Villages (Macon-white and Beaujolais-red) and I found these much to my liking. Given that they are much lower-end by most assessments in both rating and price, what does that tell you about me? I don't know. Maybe my palate still needs to age as much as those robust French wines.

quote:

Originally posted by eswrite:
............. what does that tell you about me?

Nice one.

quote:

Maybe my palate still needs to age as much as those robust French wines.

I am gradually transitioning that way. Right now I have this strange craving for a Medoc. When I read a tn that mentions earth, leather, smoke, cedar, cigar box and all that other French stuff it raise an eyebrow, or two. I also like some of the California wines that lean old world. I had a wonderful glass of Frank Family Cabernet at dinner not to long ago.

quote:

Originally posted by eswrite:
Maybe my palate still needs to age as much as those robust French wines.

Needs is the wrong word here, I think. Your palate / preferences may well evolve (or continue to evolve), but that doesn't make your palate "bad" now. One of the things I really enjoy about wine is the vast variety of styles, so "good" wine is simply wine that YOU like.