First Trip to Napa - need some help please

As For # 4

Mustards.  Good food Fair prices

1.  Two large Suburbans or a large van (we have used a van for family outings on vacation).  Cuts down on the amount of DD's you need.

2.  We have stayed at the Andaz, really enjoy the property.  It is walking distance to a number of really good places to eat.  Right across the street is Oenotri, they have really good pizza and pastas (might be cheap to grab some pizzas and sit around the firepit at the Andaz).  Also it's about a 10 minute walk to the Oxbow Market (a lot of eateries and great coffee at Ritual Roasters).  Also Gott's which is a great lunch place for burgers and fries. 

The Andaz and downtown Napa is a bit south but only 10-15 minute drive to the heart of Highway 29 and all of the wineries.

3.  Most places allow corkage, just don't bring something that they already have on the list.  And call ahead to make sure they allow corkage.

4. Napa in general is expensive, but see above for some great pizza / Burger places to eat.  I would add that we like to go to Dean and Deluca and get sandwiches, meats, cheeses, etc for picnic lunches.  D&D is not cheap but probably better than a sit down place.

5. Not much help on the bigger more commercial wineries, I try to avoid large crowds.

6.  Sonoma is cool, but it's not just 'over there' it's a bit of a hike .  That being said, if you do go, I would hit Landmark for Pinot and Chard, and go to Ridge Geyserville for their lineup (thought no Pinot). 

Good luck, drink A TON of water, and don't try and do everything in one trip.  People will get burned out and start dropping after a few days of heavy drinking and eating.

How many days will you be in Napa?

I hope your boss has a budget projection on the high end of the scale, considering customers are involved.  For a group this large, it's not always easy to keep certain costs from going "off the rails", especially when everyone is a few drinks in and having a good time.  And we all know that Napa is hardly an inexpensive destination.  Better to expect a high total cost and come in below projections, then think "reasonable" and end up blowing past it.  

For transportation, you may want to consider renting a large limo or bus, unless you're absolutely confident that a few folks are teetotalers, and wouldn't mind being the DDs to an increasingly sloppy group of passengers.  Oftentimes, the drivers have relationships with wineries, and can help you arrange a reservation and/or get a package deal for a large group to visit.  

Tying into some of the comments and questions above, the longer this trip is, the less likely that folks will want to do the "bop around to different wineries" during the latter days of the trip.  So if you're there for 5 days, there's a good likelihood that not the entire group is down to travel to different wineries for every one of those days.  The other days, folks who still want to explore wine can visit the many tasting rooms that are walking distance or a short ride away.  

As for corkage, be sure to confirm the resto's corkage policy.  A lot of the better known places either have a limit to the number of bottles you can bring, or have an escalating pricing structure where the 3rd bottle and beyond have a noticeably higher corkage charge than the first two.  Since you will be calling the restos anyway to make a reservation for a group this size, it's certainly worthwhile to verify the corkage policies and especially find out if they offer a "buy a bottle off the list, get a corkage fee waived" incentive.  

As for an inexpensive meal option, if Addendum in Yountville is open during your stay, I'd highly recommend having lunch there.  Thomas Keller's famous buttermilk fried chicken is the lure here, and a large bucket (13 to 15 pieces) at $48 is one of the true bargains for gourmet food in the Valley.  It's been over a year since I've been, but if things haven't changed, then they don't charge corkage for sitting and eating at the picnic tables set up there (first come, first served for the tables, and you'll have to bring your own glassware) and you should only order the fried chicken and bring your sides/fixings from somewhere else (sides were horribly underseasoned).

For 13 folks, get a larger van  AND a driver, then everyone can drink

"Where are some of your favorite places that we can just stop in and have a glass of wine ....without a reservation? While some places ....can just pack in the people and that may be a little more our speed with our group size. "

As you're finding you're group size is a big limit.  Groups that size, wineries just hate, and I mean hate.  I could tell you why, but I'd probably boor you.  My suggestion that would make things a whole lot easier on you is to break your group in half and set up two different itineraries each day, maybe even exact same winery stops but do them on different days for the different groups.  You'll have a lot easier time getting reservations with a group of 6-7 than 13.

I wouldn't worry about corkage so much, figuring you do 3-4 stops a day you're going to rack up $150-$450 a day per person in tasting fees, corkage will seem small after that. 

If you want reasonable costs, you should’ve picked Temecula Valley.  For higher quality but still reasonable is Santa Barbara - Los Olivos, Paso Robles, Solvang.   Next time!

doubled posted:

How many days will you be in Napa?

Doubled, we arrive Thursday morning and leave Sunday. 

Will be a short trip, so I hope my people don't get "fatigue".

Thank you all for the replies so far. I think some of you are thinking I have no budget. I have a pretty good amount of money I can spend for our short period of time. I'd just prefer to spend it wisely. Splurge where I need to, save where I can. This is all good stuff and very much appreciated. 

Paul - I have considered breaking us into 2 groups and is a great idea if we were 100% striking out on places we had to hit. I think our list is big enough to find a few spots each day. While we may do that one day, since we all like wine, but don't really consider us "aficionado's" I like the idea of us being together more and enjoying the company as much as what's in the glass.

It is our first time here, so I'm more about the experience, than wondering which wineries isn't as good as it used to be or which mailing list I will never get on. Its about the journey, not the destination, right? 

I have always enjoyed dining at Brix and on their backyard patio that overlooks their garden and the Mayacamas mountains.  Corkage friendly - $20 per bottle for up to 6 bottles with a corkage waived with each bottle purchased from their list.

If I were to pick two wineries for your group, I'd pick Pride (good wines, fabulous views with picnic tables) and Schramsberg (one of the older wineries in the area and are better known for their sparkling wine).  

The mustard weeds should be in bloom (yellow flowers) around that time of year and are found all over the valley vineyard floor.  

dirtysouth posted:

Paul -

It is our first time here, so I'm more about the experience, than wondering which wineries isn't as good as it used to be or which mailing list I will never get on. Its about the journey, not the destination, right? 

Nothing meant to be snobby in my advice at all, just practical.  Let me stress this a little more.  Large groups have a terrible, terrible, awful, nasty, putrid reputation in wine country.  Even in my AVA, which didn't even make DoubleD's list, the majority of wineries will not take a large group without a reservation and a full 1/4 will not take them at all.  Yeah the reputation really is that bad.

IN Napa even wineries as commercial/industrial as Rombauer and Pine Ridge won't take a group larger than 6.  I just think you're making it really hard on yourself and will be very limited in trying to keep the group together.  You do have a couple of advantages if you can get on the phone with someone: 1. you're not Northern California local (which is really where the asshat group reputation comes from), 2. Everyone in your group likes wine, so you might get a few places to break policy for you.  It's going to be tough for you though to get anything set up.

I wouldn't propose you set out in two different groups, I'd try to find places close together where you could set up dual appointments and divide up when you arrive so everyone gets some time with everyone else.  The other thing you could look for is places that will let you book 2 groups of six.

Probably the easiest and best option though is to go with a tour company.  They will vet you to make sure you're not birthday party asshats and then set things up for you at wineries they have relationships with that fit your bill.

flwino posted:

As For # 4

Mustards.  Good food Fair prices

I wouldn’t really call Mustard’s a “hole-in-the-wall” but I absolutely agree with this suggestion. Awesome place and very ‘of the area’. Get the pork chop. 

flwino posted:

For 13 folks, get a larger van  AND a driver, then everyone can drink

100% this. I’ve done this before but I wasn’t the person who arranged it. I do know this is actually pretty common in the area and several companies offer this. 

Airport to hotel may be trickier, though. Might want to rent 4 budget cars to make the drive, then use van/mini-bus service in Napa. SFO to Napa is a trek. 

As for the rest of it, I’m pretty uninspired by the larger just-stop-by tasting rooms in Napa but I would say Plumpjack is probably my favorite of that sort.  Sequoia Grove is nice in a more moderately priced way. 

The people at Chappellet have always been so nice to me, I bet they will be able to work with you but you’ll need to make an appointment.  Staying in Napa is absolutely fine. No problemo.  For Pinot go to Carneros (very close to the town of Napa but in the other direction).  Etude is the best. (Also great Cabs.)  Saintsbury is also nice. Though, I might choose to go to Domaine Carneros which has some very nice Pinots as well as sparkling wines.   Again, call first. Especially since for all three of these wineries it is their limited production stuff that is really quite good  

Most restaurants have good corkage policy. (And many have good wine lists at reasonable prices.). Call first — make sure there is no bottle limit. 

stefaniawine posted:

dirtysouth posted:

Paul -

It is our first time here, so I'm more about the experience, than wondering which wineries isn't as good as it used to be or which mailing list I will never get on. Its about the journey, not the destination, right? 

Nothing meant to be snobby in my advice at all, just practical.  Let me stress this a little more.  Large groups have a terrible, terrible, awful, nasty, putrid reputation in wine country.  Even in my AVA, which didn't even make DoubleD's list, the majority of wineries will not take a large group without a reservation and a full 1/4 will not take them at all.  Yeah the reputation really is that bad.

IN Napa even wineries as commercial/industrial as Rombauer and Pine Ridge won't take a group larger than 6.  I just think you're making it really hard on yourself and will be very limited in trying to keep the group together.  You do have a couple of advantages if you can get on the phone with someone: 1. you're not Northern California local (which is really where the asshat group reputation comes from), 2. Everyone in your group likes wine, so you might get a few places to break policy for you.  It's going to be tough for you though to get anything set up.

I wouldn't propose you set out in two different groups, I'd try to find places close together where you could set up dual appointments and divide up when you arrive so everyone gets some time with everyone else.  The other thing you could look for is places that will let you book 2 groups of six.

Probably the easiest and best option though is to go with a tour company.  They will vet you to make sure you're not birthday party asshats and then set things up for you at wineries they have relationships with that fit your bill.

Paul, no need to apologize. I wasn't viewing your comment as snobby at all. I actually really appreciate the insight you were giving to me. Forums are hard to read tone, so I apologize if you took my comment as anything other than, we may just need to wing it and see what happens. In the bit of "search" I did on this forum for Napa trips, it seemed like a lot of the posts were more about who wasnt as awesome as they used to be, or whatnot. My point is that we have no baseline, so while something may not be what they used to be, maybe it is still really cool for me at this moment. 

For what it is worth, I have reached out to the following so far and all have actually seemed pretty receptive to hosting my group:

Hall

Heitz

Orin Swift

While all pretty readily available across the US, I've really enjoyed wines from each of these producers in the past. 

Have not heard from:

Plumpjack or Inglenook

Again, seriously no need to apologize and sorry that my comments made you feel the need to do so. I do really appreciate all the comments on here as I have already gotten a lot more than I expected and its barely been 24 hours. 

Kevin

winetarelli posted:

As for the rest of it, I’m pretty uninspired by the larger just-stop-by tasting rooms in Napa but I would say Plumpjack is probably my favorite of that sort.  Sequoia Grove is nice in a more moderately priced way. 

The people at Chappellet have always been so nice to me, I bet they will be able to work with you but you’ll need to make an appointment.  Staying in Napa is absolutely fine. No problemo.  For Pinot go to Carneros (very close to the town of Napa but in the other direction).  Etude is the best. (Also great Cabs.)  Saintsbury is also nice. Though, I might choose to go to Domaine Carneros which has some very nice Pinots as well as sparkling wines.   Again, call first. Especially since for all three of these wineries it is their limited production stuff that is really quite good  

Most restaurants have good corkage policy. (And many have good wine lists at reasonable prices.). Call first — make sure there is no bottle limit. 

Good stuff! Thank you for this info, will need to check those PN producers out. Plumpjack email went out last night, but maybe seems like we can just stop out there from this post. 

dirtysouth posted:

winetarelli posted:

As for the rest of it, I’m pretty uninspired by the larger just-stop-by tasting rooms in Napa but I would say Plumpjack is probably my favorite of that sort.  Sequoia Grove is nice in a more moderately priced way. 

The people at Chappellet have always been so nice to me, I bet they will be able to work with you but you’ll need to make an appointment.  Staying in Napa is absolutely fine. No problemo.  For Pinot go to Carneros (very close to the town of Napa but in the other direction).  Etude is the best. (Also great Cabs.)  Saintsbury is also nice. Though, I might choose to go to Domaine Carneros which has some very nice Pinots as well as sparkling wines.   Again, call first. Especially since for all three of these wineries it is their limited production stuff that is really quite good  

Most restaurants have good corkage policy. (And many have good wine lists at reasonable prices.). Call first — make sure there is no bottle limit. 

Good stuff! Thank you for this info, will need to check those PN producers out. Plumpjack email went out last night, but maybe seems like we can just stop out there from this post. 

I have just stopped by Plumpjack and it was open.  But that was a few years ago.  But... I just checked their website and apparently it is now by appointment. Ooooops!  Sorry. 

I'm not a big fan of the corporate walk in tasting rooms, and I prefer to visit mom and pop wineries for a more personal experience, but that is not feasible for your large group.  A lot of the bigger wineries have private tasting rooms (Merryvale For example).  I would make an appointment for that sort of tasting.  I wouldn't try to just wing it as a big group unless your going to a place like V. Sattui that caters to bus tours.

Interestingly, I've noticed that some wineries charge more per person for tasting as a large group (8 or more).  I imagine that larger groups don't buy nearly as much wine per person than smaller groups or individuals.

Rutherford Grill

No corkage....all the time....as many as you want

may want to verify buts thats what it has been for a while

Couple new questions.

1) Thinking about moving to Rancho Caymus. Seems like this is more in the heart of everything versus "downtown Napa" for the Andaz. Is this a good call or is Downtown much better to stay for post day drinking evening time atmosphere?

2) Are there a lot of Uber / Lyft options out here or do I need the charter bus or our own vehicles?

bomba503 posted:

Rutherford Grill

No corkage....all the time....as many as you want

may want to verify buts thats what it has been for a while

Rutherford Grill is the best...along with a new favorite Brasswood.

Rutherford Grill is part of the Hillstone group right?  A step up no doubt compared to most chains but there has to be better options in Napa for dinner. 

I would stay in the downtown area for more options on post dining/evening.  Another hotel to consider is the Westin.  

napacat posted:

bomba503 posted:

Rutherford Grill

No corkage....all the time....as many as you want

may want to verify buts thats what it has been for a while

Rutherford Grill is the best...along with a new favorite Brasswood.

I’m with you on Brasswood. They make this molten mozzarella cheese served over bread with olive oil that you just want to rub all over your body and then lick..........oops. Got to go....

glennk posted:

Rutherford Grill is part of the Hillstone group right?  A step up no doubt compared to most chains but there has to be better options in Napa for dinner. 

Yeah. I mean, it’s fine.  It’s good. But people go there for the wine. Their upper tier wine list is not terribly far off retail-priced. That has always been the draw.  2013 Shafer HSS @ $290 off the list is the draw. Not the food.  (Or, really, the game people used to play that I’m sure still is- go with a few people and order the Screagle at a fraction of its retail value.  2013 is a $3000 bottle of wine retail at $1800 on their list.)

BTW, quick perusal of website to get current wine pricing led me to see they now charge $15/ bottle corkage after the first. Not much, just thought I’d mention it. 

Look, I am NOT an expert on Napa dining, and didn’t want to chime in since I’m used to having Napa locals on this board. But since the experts have left...

These are all provisionally reccomended, though you should double check they meet your needs.

Angele- French-ish. Good food, not earth-shattering.  Very nice setting. Inquire about corkage. Not my first choice for you but may meet your needs and definitely worth knowing about.

*Bistro Jeanty- French. Great food. Better tham Angele. Possibly very nice setting for your needs.  Corkage is a little steep, but doable.  Napa Valley institution. 

*Bistro Don Giovanni- Napa-Italian. Great food so long as authenticity is not expected.  Or I should say, it is authentic Cal-Ital. Good setting — it can get a little... bustling. I think I recall good corkage policy. Would recommend above some others on this list.  Long standing Napa Valley staple.

Zuzu- Tapas. Not sure that is appropriate for you but tasty food. Good vibe. Never had a problem with corkage but you should contact. 

Ad Hoc- Down home good eatin’. Great food. One menu for entire restaurant changes daily. Good setting. Low food cost (for its quality).  High corkage. 

*Brix- Cal-French. Napa-y. Great food.  Great setting — nicest of the bunch.  A little pricier food than the others on this list but only a touch. I recall decent or low corkage — possibly offsetting slightly higher food prices — but you should inquire.  

To me, Mustard’s comes before any of these if it makes sense for you as it is a Napa staple for me. 

The other two nights should probably be between Bistro Don Giovanni, Bistro Jeanty and Brix. 

P.S.  You might want to look into Harvest Table in St. Helena, too. Though I haven’t been. 

Hope you have a great trip. Enjoy your moments. 

winedrmike posted:

napacat posted:

bomba503 posted:

Rutherford Grill

No corkage....all the time....as many as you want

may want to verify buts thats what it has been for a while

Rutherford Grill is the best...along with a new favorite Brasswood.

I’m with you on Brasswood. They make this molten mozzarella cheese served over bread with olive oil that you just want to rub all over your body and then lick..........oops. Got to go....

We had a lunch here one of the days and could not agree more on this comment!!!!

So, we were there last week(end), and from the sounds of it, could not have selected a better time to visit. Sunny and perfect weather all 5 days (1.5 of those days wandering around San Francisco first). Made alot of visit and here were our group of 13 favorites (which may be helpful for future large groups):

1) Kutch Wines in Sonoma. I've been on his list for probably 6-7 years and this was many peoples favorite stop. Drastically different than every single other stop we made (in a great way). Jamie is clearly passionate about wine making, and a very great personality and person. We really enjoyed being able to meet him, specifically for my wife and I, as his wines have been very involved in many family events and celebrations over the past 5 years. 

2) Darioush. This place was very nice in that we have a wine/cheese tasting which really hit the spot at that time of the day. Our host, Derik, was highly knowledgeable and a real pleasure to walk us through the time together. 

3) Brasswood. Did the paired lunch. This was more about the food than the wine (in my opinion), but they do have a very nice facility and was a cool place to spend a few hours. The comment above about the molten cheese & bread...spot on. 

Not winery related, but really wanted to give major props to:

The Girl & the Fig in Sonoma and Ca 'Momi in Napa. BY FAR our two favorite meals. The food, the drinks (beyond wine), the employees and their recommendations. Just really spot on. If you are looking for Gluten-Free options in Napa - Ca 'Momi is just phenomenal. Their Burrata/Prosciutto appetizer in out of this world good (for my tastes). Maybe I just have a thing for Mozzarella. 

Anyways - thanks to everyone for all the suggestions and responses. This was the first visit to Wine Country for all of us (besides maybe 1 person), and as mentioned above, was more about the time together. The food and wines were a "backdrop" that really contributed to the great conversations and time spent together in general, which is what the trip was all about. 

We will be back!!!