Our boys started (Catholic) school today, and while the Diocese strongly recommends, they aren't mandating masks. Once again showing they are only Pro-Life before children are born.
So let your kids wear a mask...they need to be mandated to do so?
@napacat posted:So let your kids wear a mask...they need to be mandated to do so?
No, MY kids don't need mandated because we aren't idiots. But when you have a grade school where all of the students are too young to be vaccinated, and there are plenty of families that don't believe in vaccines, masks, or even empathy towards others, then yes mandates are needed. If you want proof, look at the state of Florida right now.
You still don't need a mandate. Want to be vaccinated...go ahead and get it. Want to wear a mask or two...wear them. You don't need to extrapolate that people don't have empathy...that is a summation on your part not remotely based on facts.
Do you need to be mandated to wear clothes when you go to a restaurant?
School are the same, you dont get vaccinated, don't goto school Power to choose. Home school the kids.
speaking of personal responsibility.
These idiots catch covid, then request and get free healthcare. That's not personal responsibility when tax payers li ke me have to pay for it.
10 cents mask, 15$ vaccine, or a 15000$ hospital stay with an ongoing 1500$ regeneron treatment?
Personal responsbility my ass. If you're a real republican and a fiscal conservative you should be appalled at the tax payer's waste.
napa sounds more like a dumb fan boi who has exactly 0 original thought of his own. stupid sheep.
@napacat posted:So let your kids wear a mask...they need to be mandated to do so?
Hey zero for brains! You are REQUIRED by law to have all kinds of shots before you go to school. So try explaining how this is different. Will not look for your dumb answer, as you have none,
We have over 500 students tested positive this week in school, and they just started class. ICU beds are full! Some teachers have died.
Wake up and smell the roses, but you need to get the nose away from two folks butts - Ron and the Dumpster.
As for the Ron Di ass ter he feel it is better to treat than prevent, of course he receive $5 million for the jerk that owns the pharm company.
According to The New York Times, deaths from Covid-19 in Florida have increased 123% over the last two weeks. Who's clapping now?
The Point: Masking DOES NOT have to be a political issue. It is a public health matter. Except politicians like De ass tis can't seem to grasp that fact. Or just don't want to, nor do you.
Gimme a break
Well, according to a new study from USF, Florida will peak on August 24th, we will be at herd immunity (90%) by September 11, and cases will drop dramatically after that.
From the article, "So because more people are getting vaccinated and more are voluntarily wearing masks..."
While the governor, the best friend a virus ever had, does everything he can to stop mask wearing.
What do those pesky scientists know? Are any of them planning to run for President?! NO!
Napacat
On a personal note get lost.
My wife was in hospital with absolutly no visitors, for a week.
Then transfers to a rehab facility with visitors. AND WAS IN GOOD HEALTH
All the staff at rehab was not vaccinated. They never asked for proof of vax from any visitor. You had to sign a form that said you were okay, and allowed you to lie.
To be released after a week she had to take a COVID test. She caught it there! Now I have her home "locked" away for 10-14 days in the quest suite.
So when I hear your crap I will take it personally. Wear a mask, take the shot, social distance.
FL, I’m sorry for what your wife went through. Glad she is home.
Personal freedoms end at public welfare. I can't shoot guns off in public because I want to. I don't have smallpox, polio, mumps, measles, rubella, diphteria, pertussis, hepatitis, and rarely get or have mild influenza annually because of vaccines, and sanitary public health practices around sick people.
BTW, yes the cost to self for $.01 mask, and free vaccine vs $20,000 for hospitalization, medical treatments, and ICU care ignores also this: 1- 10% Long haul COVID persists health care costs, disability, lack of work productivity etc. 2- The South has few open beds in ICU's. This impact, rarely discussed, means if others need a bed; Multi [ eg MVA] trauma, severe cardiac or neurologic event, acute especially abdominal surgery, they must wait or get a step down [less monitoring]. 3- Medical personnel are exhausted, more going on quarantine or isolation and out from work. Care is lessened. Outpatient elective procedures or visits are decreased, impacting cancer patients most.
It's time to impose the continued health of the majority on the impish ignorance of the minority.
FL, I'm also sorry to hear about that. Best luck and I'm sure she will pull through fine.
Best of luck FLWINO to your wife.
@drtannin 2 posted:Personal freedoms end at public welfare. I can't shoot guns off in public because I want to. I don't have smallpox, polio, mumps, measles, rubella, diphteria, pertussis, hepatitis, and rarely get or have mild influenza annually because of vaccines, and sanitary public health practices around sick people.
BTW, yes the cost to self for $.01 mask, and free vaccine vs $20,000 for hospitalization, medical treatments, and ICU care ignores also this: 1- 10% Long haul COVID persists health care costs, disability, lack of work productivity etc. 2- The South has few open beds in ICU's. This impact, rarely discussed, means if others need a bed; Multi [ eg MVA] trauma, severe cardiac or neurologic event, acute especially abdominal surgery, they must wait or get a step down [less monitoring]. 3- Medical personnel are exhausted, more going on quarantine or isolation and out from work. Care is lessened. Outpatient elective procedures or visits are decreased, impacting cancer patients most.
It's time to impose the continued health of the majority on the impish ignorance of the minority.
Thanks for the clear concise explanation of why people need to stop being afraid of the vaccine and get their shots!
@drtannin 2 posted:Personal freedoms end at public welfare. I can't shoot guns off in public because I want to. I don't have smallpox, polio, mumps, measles, rubella, diphteria, pertussis, hepatitis, and rarely get or have mild influenza annually because of vaccines, and sanitary public health practices around sick people.
BTW, yes the cost to self for $.01 mask, and free vaccine vs $20,000 for hospitalization, medical treatments, and ICU care ignores also this: 1- 10% Long haul COVID persists health care costs, disability, lack of work productivity etc. 2- The South has few open beds in ICU's. This impact, rarely discussed, means if others need a bed; Multi [ eg MVA] trauma, severe cardiac or neurologic event, acute especially abdominal surgery, they must wait or get a step down [less monitoring]. 3- Medical personnel are exhausted, more going on quarantine or isolation and out from work. Care is lessened. Outpatient elective procedures or visits are decreased, impacting cancer patients most.
It's time to impose the continued health of the majority on the impish ignorance of the minority.
well said.
real fiscal conservatives would never argue against that either.
it's baffling to me how a bunch of idiots can ruin so much of this country
@flwino posted:Billhike
Thanks for your kindness. Other option was to be in hospital for 10 days and no visitors. Safer here. Every time I get near I need N95 Mask and or/face shield. We will make it thru!
Definitely best wishes to your wife and you. I'm sure we can all start sharing some bottles again soon!
One of my wife’s roommates from college just tested positive. She’s a Dentist with surgical privileges at a hospital. Fully vaccinated. Had mild symptoms only - akin to a cold she says. 2 of 3 others in house also fully vaccinated, the other not because not old enough - no positive tests among the others. Get the damn shot. They work.
Florida has now recorded slightly in excess of 42,000 deaths from Covid. Of these deaths, I suspect that about 42,000 of them were in unvaccinated people.
That is a lot of human misery and a huge toll on the state. At this time they are recording just under 1500 deaths per week.
Overall, about 54% of Florida's adults are vaccinated. (In Maryland, about 80% of adults are fully vaccinated).
What makes this so sad is that since the vaccines became available, deaths are nearly 100% avoidable.
The shot works.
but hey a horse dewormer has fda approved.
https://www.rollingstone.com/p...id-fox-news-1215168/
@irwin posted:Florida has now recorded slightly in excess of 42,000 deaths from Covid. Of these deaths, I suspect that about 42,000 of them were in unvaccinated people.
That is a lot of human misery and a huge toll on the state. At this time they are recording just under 1500 deaths per week.
Overall, about 54% of Florida's adults are vaccinated. (In Maryland, about 80% of adults are fully vaccinated).
What makes this so sad is that since the vaccines became available, deaths are nearly 100% avoidable.
The shot works.
There is a difference You have Gov Hogan We have Gov Ron Trump
Pfizer received full F.D.A. approval today for its vaccine.
I think we will see a wave of new vaccine requirements by hospitals, businesses, schools, etc.
@Rothko posted:Pfizer received full F.D.A. approval today for its vaccine.
I think we will see a wave of new vaccine requirements by hospitals, businesses, schools, etc.
I see my local hospital had 75 doctors walk out due to conditions, crowding etc. Glad my honey is home from that hospital.
@Rothko posted:Pfizer received full F.D.A. approval today for its vaccine.
I think we will see a wave of new vaccine requirements by hospitals, businesses, schools, etc.
And a whole new slew of reasons not to take it among the vaccine hesitant (aka f*cking morons).
@csm posted:And a whole new slew of reasons not to take it among the vaccine hesitant (aka f*cking morons).
Why would there be a new slew was now being FDA approved?? I guess people could question the FDA approval but are no longer able to call it an experimental drug. I expect a very slight increase in people getting vaccinated, maybe 5%, because as you say most of these people at this point are "f*cking morons."
@The Old Man posted:Why would there be a new slew was now being FDA approved?? I guess people could question the FDA approval but are no longer able to call it an experimental drug. I expect a very slight increase in people getting vaccinated, maybe 5%, because as you say most of these people at this point are "f*cking morons."
A former regular poster here who is a Facebook friend and a huge fan of Trump said he was refusing to get the shot because it was "experimental". A mutual friend who was also a former poster here and a doctor kept explaining to him that with millions of doses globally and so few examples of dire side effects, the vaccine was safe. So now that the vaccine is no longer experimental we both asked him if he was getting his shot now and his reply was a slew of links to obscure mama's-basement websites about how the FDA was dishonest, incompetent, etc etc.
Trumpanzees gonna be Trumpanzees, so I doubt this will move the number of those vaccinated much, certainly nowhere near what would be needed for herd immunity. And so the restrictions will continue in states with sensible governors. And the hospitalizations and deaths will continue to rise in those with idiot governors.
My prediction is that the vaccine hesitant that justified not getting the shot because it was not fully approved will now invent reasons as to why the full FDA approval happened more quickly for this vaccine than it normally does. For example the drug companies paid off the FDA, the government is trying to get more microchips in arms and felt that granting approval would result in an increase in people taking the shot, Bill Gates called Biden and pressured him into pressuring the FDA. None will make any sense or be real, but there will be a pivot among at least a portion of the individuals that are very generously referred to as "vaccine hesitant" rather than "raving lunatics."
@bman posted:And the hospitalizations and deaths will continue to rise in those with idiot governors.
interesting you say this because I would most certainly count Florida among the idiot governor cabal, however, USF researches have some modeling that predicts that the percentage of vaccinated residents combined with those that have some immunity from infection will result in Florida achieving herd immunity in Floriday by Sept 7. I don't have the first clue whether the study or the modeling is credible and the story's a couple of weeks old so it may already be out of date, but I found it interesting nonetheless. Also appears that the "achievement" will come at something of a devastating cost of unnecessary deaths.
@csm posted:interesting you say this because I would most certainly count Florida among the idiot governor cabal, however, USF researches have some modeling that predicts that the percentage of vaccinated residents combined with those that have some immunity from infection will result in Florida achieving herd immunity in Floriday by Sept 7. I don't have the first clue whether the study or the modeling is credible and the story's a couple of weeks old so it may already be out of date, but I found it interesting nonetheless. Also appears that the "achievement" will come at something of a devastating cost of unnecessary deaths.
Interesting. People seem to forget that those who were infected carry some degree of immunity but from what I've read, it fades more quickly than immunity in those vaccinated. And I thought that 90% or more needed to be vaccinated or have immunity from an earlier infection, and it doesn't seem that Florida would be there. But as always, the science evolves so who knows?
In any case, de Santis is still an idiot....
Very true bman. Quebec counts those with a prior vaccination as partially immunized because the prevailing view is that the immunity fades more quickly than it does with one of the vaccines (my understanding anyway). Irregardless, de Santis is a clown and an idiot most assuredly.
@csm posted:Very true bman. Quebec counts those with a prior vaccination as partially immunized because the prevailing view is that the immunity fades more quickly than it does with one of the vaccines (my understanding anyway). Irregardless, de Santis is a clown and an idiot most assuredly.
I think you mean prior infection, right?
@csm posted:Very true bman. Quebec counts those with a prior vaccination as partially immunized because the prevailing view is that the immunity fades more quickly than it does with one of the vaccines (my understanding anyway). Irregardless, de Santis is a clown and an idiot most assuredly.
The scary part is Gov. Ron Trump leads many polls for 2024 GOP listing for Prez. He is really insanity running large. Treat Covid, don't prevent it. Our rate of VAX will be tied with ALA soon.
Immunity against one variant isn't the same as against others, depending on how much the virus mutates. The decreased efficacy of vaccines is in part due to this. Example- Why flu shots are revised every year is based on S. Hemisphere or other predominant circulating viruses that summer. And, remember, herd immunity is the least desirable way to become immune, since it requires sickness, hospitalization, death, long term disability to achieve population coverage and works only until the next appreciably different variant or other infectious agent arrives. It's not yet horrific with the current strains of the flu or corona, but is a method of extinction with smallpox and was horrific with polio and Spanish flu. That's why the observation of pus from smallpox giving some immunity led to variolation and then vaccination.
The vaccines work better than is stated. The delta variant is more infective than early alpha strains [higher loads entering cells and replicating over time.] The alpha strain caused illness mostly in elderly >65, those with heart disease, diabetes, obesity, hypertension. But, little comparative disease in young people or kids. Death rates for people under 40 were <.02%. The delta is causing disease, hospitalization and death in young adults and kids similar to the alpha in the sicker older group, [since vast majority of older people were the ones vaccinated] . To gauge efficacy of the vaccine, one must compare effects of delta now with those of alpha on young adults in 2020. Ten to hundred fold increase in hospitalizations and deaths by delta. And, 97% of those now hospitalized are the unvaccinated, yet they are less than half the number of people vaccinated, further dramatizing how much vaccines work. So, to eschew the vaccine now is far worse than one might think.
Immunity from boosters appreciably enhances overall immunity [ part of why PFE MRNA were dual shots] even if not specific to the new variant, as mutations are rarely abruptly radical to leave vaccines completely ineffective. Immunity is also both "acute" with antibodies to various antigens, and "less acute" with T cells. The acute component is important to maintain short illness and lessen contagion and secondary spread. The mRNA vaccine boosted the acute response from 60% to 95% efficacy against illness going from 1 to 2 doses. That's why two doses were given. A 3rd booster will likely recover the interval loss of efficacy from time. Breakthroughs in the vaccinated will become rare again; the unvaccinated will once again be alone in the ICU.
The mandates will be significant. States and businesses will impose financial repercussions [already happening]. So will insurance companies not covering COVID costs [already happening]. Loss of work, penalties and costs for noncompliance, uncovered hospital bills, social isolation. AND the rage of the vaccinated heaped upon the recalcitrant unvaccinated losers will worsen as their medical costs, and national costs of delayed economic growth and inflation will become the burden now also borne by the vaccinated. DeSantis staking his career on wrong interpretations of a non peer reviewed study against the preponderance of the evidence is taking a career risk that will appeal to fewer and fewer people. When huge throngs of kids get sick and die, he will be but a historical footnote. People care about their kids, nit so much Afghanistan. We will see how that goes.
@Rothko posted:I think you mean prior infection, right?
Correct. Trying to multitask at work.
Thanks for that analysis Dr T. Always nice to hear things from an actual doctor.
Another quick thanks to Dr. Tannin. Too many amateur virologists and epidemiologists floating around. When the average person gets on a plane, we don't check the flight plan, instead relying upon the expertise of the pilot.
But, politicians are another breed. Take Governor DeSantis of Florida. He's belittled the virus and its transmissibility. One third of Florida's counties have vaccination rates of under 35%. Down in Florida, they now have just over 200 deaths per day from Covid. By the time the election of 2024 arrives, Florida will be a blue state, because of the deaths of Republican and rural voters. It's the greatest voter suppression strategy invented, because dead people don't vote (except in Chicago).
@irwin posted:It's the greatest voter suppression strategy invented, because dead people don't vote (except in Chicago).
This made me laugh out loud, well done.