https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...AMKQgC?ocid=msedgntp
Glad the CDC finally released the reason why, and one that was already talked about for the past 2 months.
My daughter's roommate (both 3rd yr med students) just tested positive for COVID having had the Pfizer vaccine. Living a block away (also in Tampa) my SIL's niece just got it as well with the J&J vaccine. Imagine it is the Delta variant and shows how easy it is to get breakthrough infections. Time to go back to masks in public, regardless of local or state requirements.
@vinole posted:My daughter's roommate (both 3rd yr med students) just tested positive for COVID having had the Pfizer vaccine. Living a block away (also in Tampa) my SIL's niece just got it as well with the J&J vaccine. Imagine it is the Delta variant and shows how easy it is to get breakthrough infections. Time to go back to masks in public, regardless of local or state requirements.
Good luck with that, with Governor Trump-lite and his lack-of-virtue-signaling leading the state!
Florida is in big trouble. See, https://www.yahoo.com/news/flo...covid-235627800.html
Meanwhile, about 77% of Marylanders over 18 have received the vaccinations. We need to keep going on this.
"Rep. Ralph Norman, one of the three congressional Republicans suing Speaker Nancy Pelosi over fines for not wearing masks during a vote on the U.S. House floor, has contracted a breakthrough case of COVID-19, the second member of South Carolina’s delegation to do so."
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.
Maryland’s governor, Larry Hogan, has announced that all state employees must get vaccinated, with minimal exceptions. Hogan is an anti-trump Republican.
Well, look at the bright side, think of all the anti-vaxxers who'll be leaving the gene pool.
@jabe11 posted:Well, look at the bright side, think of all the anti-vaxxers who'll be leaving the gene pool.
I’ve had that thought. The highest percentage of unvaccinated people are Republicans in Florida, and Louisiana and Arkansas and Missouri. The delta variant is going to kill a number of these people. Some Democrats too. Black people are reluctant to get vaccines due to mistrust of the health care system.
if a bunch of people who are stupid die, it’s like a forest fire. It is bad for the forest in the short term but the forest comes back stronger.
heard today that in a few days there will be next to no hospital beds available in Florida and Louisiana.
Lest my comments be misinterpreted, I am not saying that all republicans are stupid or that all people In Louisiana are stupid I am saying that people who don’t want to be vaccinated are stupid
Florida is in bad shape: a new record of daily Covid cases (23,903), with 13,747 people in hospitals due to Covid, and 2,750 patients in intensive care.
What we are seeing in Florida is probably what would have happened if there had been no shut-down in the beginning and people just went along their merry way and continued to go to restaurants, bars, sporting events, etc.
"Queen’s Brian May Calls Anti-Vaxxers, Including Eric Clapton, ‘Fruitcakes’"
Never liked the music but I do regularly read May's occasional articles in Astronomy magazine. He's been involved with science during his entire music career.
@Rothko posted:Florida is in bad shape: a new record of daily Covid cases (23,903), with 13,747 people in hospitals due to Covid, and 2,750 patients in intensive care.
What we are seeing in Florida is probably what would have happened if there had been no shut-down in the beginning and people just went along their merry way and continued to go to restaurants, bars, sporting events, etc.
And as long as Governor Idiot continues his idiotic ways, it's gonna get waaaaaay worse. Also in states with other idiot governors.
People are coining the term "COVID Rage" for the increasing intolerance for the unvaccinated. The vast majority of the spread and continued costs of COVID are theirs to blame. Mandates for vaccination are coming. These are legal, given Supreme Court precedent, for all states that wish to implement, and as already are required for federal employees, including just hours ago today for all military personnel. When the FDA approves PFE mRNA for general use, the rage gates will open widely. Several companies including already MSFT, will generate a mandate wave. No vaccine, no entry to offices, and maybe no job, or status or pay raise. Tomorrow? More companies, smaller and mid size ones. School attending kids must now get vaccines to attend public school eg MMR,DPT, but I suspect add COVID to that list in 1 month. Then, there's the "pariah factor". The COVID leper! Want to go to the wedding, or indoor wine tasting, fancy restaurant, travel from state to state, or globally? Submit proof of vaccination or a recent negative COVID test, or you're out of luck---see you later. While the Fed can't mandate vaccination [only states can], they have another Ace in the Hole. Want govt subsidies, like farmer or church aid, Medicaid/Medicare/ Social Security and DIsability benefits? Better fall in line. Insurance companies may stop covering unvaccinated COVID patients. Some serious sh*t is coming if this gets any worse.
"If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem."
@drtannin 2 posted:People are coining the term "COVID Rage" for the increasing intolerance for the unvaccinated. The vast majority of the spread and continued costs of COVID are theirs to blame. Mandates for vaccination are coming. These are legal, given Supreme Court precedent, for all states that wish to implement, and as already are required for federal employees, including just hours ago today for all military personnel. When the FDA approves PFE mRNA for general use, the rage gates will open widely. Several companies including already MSFT, will generate a mandate wave. No vaccine, no entry to offices, and maybe no job, or status or pay raise. Tomorrow? More companies, smaller and mid size ones. School attending kids must now get vaccines to attend public school eg MMR,DPT, but I suspect add COVID to that list in 1 month. Then, there's the "pariah factor". The COVID leper! Want to go to the wedding, or indoor wine tasting, fancy restaurant, travel from state to state, or globally? Submit proof of vaccination or a recent negative COVID test, or you're out of luck---see you later. While the Fed can't mandate vaccination [only states can], they have another Ace in the Hole. Want govt subsidies, like farmer or church aid, Medicaid/Medicare/ Social Security and DIsability benefits? Better fall in line. Insurance companies may stop covering unvaccinated COVID patients. Some serious sh*t is coming if this gets any worse.
"If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem."
The mandate for federal funds you reference has been effectively used by the US Gov't in the area of transportation, where the feds have withheld funding unless a state requires seat belt use, or raises the drinking age to 21, and the like.
I sort of doubt that the US Gov't could deny social security payments to the unvaccinated, or Medicare. But, there are ways for the federal government to put the squeeze on states who do not require immunizations.
How do you enforce a vaccine mandate if all you have to do is show a paper card that says you've been vaccinated? I've heard that there is a thriving black market industry where you can get a fake vaccine card as easily as a fake ID.
We don't have a national electronic vaccine passport, and I don't see one coming any time soon. So right now, it's just that little card that has your name and says you were vaccinated. Not exactly foolproof evidence of vaccination.
@Rothko posted:How do you enforce a vaccine mandate if all you have to do is show a paper card that says you've been vaccinated? I've heard that there is a thriving black market industry where you can get a fake vaccine card as easily as a fake ID.
We don't have a national electronic vaccine passport, and I don't see one coming any time soon. So right now, it's just that little card that has your name and says you were vaccinated. Not exactly foolproof evidence of vaccination.
Just create a mist-delivery vaccine and carpet-bomb the US with it like napalm. F**k their feelings.
@Rothko posted:How do you enforce a vaccine mandate if all you have to do is show a paper card that says you've been vaccinated? I've heard that there is a thriving black market industry where you can get a fake vaccine card as easily as a fake ID.
First I don't believe they'll be a government mandate except for government employees and the military. They will certainly check. However, I believe we're going to get ahead of this by businesses requiring vaccination or negative test results. It will be great when the first major airline blinks and does this.
Now as to cheating, it will certainly occur. But notice that a number of states, CA included have digital ID cards. This will help weed out a bunch, if not all, of dummies in restaurants and small businesses. States that care will provide these IDs, the Trumpy states, not so much.
When you got a shot, and a card, your name was entered into a vaccine registry, with Lot # and maker. Twice in fact if you received a mRNA vaccine. States and some especially global/larger companies can check that registry; some surely will. I also presume the penalties for those selling fake cards and those caught using them will be quite severe. And the finger pointing will out them as well. Some evaders will succeed. But on the whole, it will be easier to just get a vaccine.
@drtannin 2 posted:When you got a shot, and a card, your name was entered into a vaccine registry, with Lot # and maker. Twice in fact if you received a mRNA vaccine. States and some especially global/larger companies can check that registry; some surely will. I also presume the penalties for those selling fake cards and those caught using them will be quite severe. And the finger pointing will out them as well. Some evaders will succeed. But on the whole, it will be easier to just get a vaccine.
Two Americans were fined $20,000 each for trying to enter Canada with fake vaccinations cards. They got off lucky as the maximum fine is $750,000.
We take this stuff seriously.
@irwin posted:... people who don’t want to be vaccinated are stupid.
Or afraid, or both. Ignorance and fear are close companions.
@bman posted:Two Americans were fined $20,000 each for trying to enter Canada with fake vaccinations cards. They got off lucky as the maximum fine is $750,000.
We take this stuff seriously.
Good on Canada! Just curious on how the fines are enforced. Were they not released back to the US before paying?
@bman posted:Two Americans were fined $20,000 each for trying to enter Canada with fake vaccinations cards. They got off lucky as the maximum fine is $750,000.
We take this stuff seriously.
They were Canadian citizens, returning from a trip to the U.S.
@javachip posted:They were Canadian citizens, returning from a trip to the U.S.
and the fine was in CAD not USD ... so that's like what 2$ USD?
United airlines requiring its employees to have vaccinations. In Maryland, a number of universities requiring students and staff to have vaccinations. Same with some hospitals and nursing homes.
An historical note on mandatory inoculations.......
https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech...lpoxinoculation.html
George Washington was a patriot.
@Rothko posted:How do you enforce a vaccine mandate if all you have to do is show a paper card that says you've been vaccinated? I've heard that there is a thriving black market industry where you can get a fake vaccine card as easily as a fake ID.
We don't have a national electronic vaccine passport, and I don't see one coming any time soon. So right now, it's just that little card that has your name and says you were vaccinated. Not exactly foolproof evidence of vaccination.
A few states and the EU have a APP that will verify your status, and can't be bought on the black market. Obviously, stupid Ron would never allow this APP in Flori-duh
https://www.local10.com/news/l...ce-sheer-exhaustion/
The State of Florida requests 300 ventilators from the Federal government due to increased hospitalizations for Covid. At the same time, our Governor a/k/a 2024 Presidential Candidate threatens school superintendents who want mask mandates.
Kids started back at schools today. Just wait for the Covid numbers in the next few weeks.
I love living in Florida.
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It is miserable here in SE Florida.
Broward county 4 dead teachers since Monday, three no vax. Classes start next week
Palm Beach county, Over 400 children and teachers tested positive. School only started Tuesday. About 60 Quarantined. And to top it off 6,200 parents have opted out of masks.
Add that, the cruise industry is now reporting Covid Cases, like 27 this week on Carnival. Don't think I will go on an incubator ship for a long time
Mini-rant, sorry:
The CDC needs to recommend boosters to everyone over 65 who got an mRNA jab -- but particularly a Pfizer jab -- more than 5 months ago, and recommend that people who took J&J get an mRNA vaccine. Then, a month later, everyone for whom it has been more than 4 months since the second jab should get a third. All of the evidence is that (1) a third jab, even if it isn't variant-specific, after 4 moths does a tremendous amount of good. (And this is probably particularly important for people who got the Pfizer jab which *appears* less effective at fighting the Delta variant). And then, when we have variant-specific jabs, let's get those in our arms as well.
I'm done waiting for anti-vaxxers and I'm done with masks and done with flattening the curve. I don't want to be holed up in my home and anxious anymore. We now have vaccines that will reduce our chances of getting even moderate (or worse) to COVID to nearly nill if we get boosters and then booster boosters. So, this can be an anti-vaxxer problem and the rest of us can resume our lives.
@winetarelli posted:Mini-rant, sorry:
The CDC needs to recommend boosters to everyone over 65 who got an mRNA jab -- but particularly a Pfizer jab -- more than 5 months ago, and recommend that people who took J&J get an mRNA vaccine. Then, a month later, everyone for whom it has been more than 4 months since the second jab should get a third. All of the evidence is that (1) a third jab, even if it isn't variant-specific, after 4 moths does a tremendous amount of good. (And this is probably particularly important for people who got the Pfizer jab which *appears* less effective at fighting the Delta variant). And then, when we have variant-specific jabs, let's get those in our arms as well.
I'm done waiting for anti-vaxxers and I'm done with masks and done with flattening the curve. I don't want to be holed up in my home and anxious anymore. We now have vaccines that will reduce our chances of getting even moderate (or worse) to COVID to nearly nill if we get boosters and then booster boosters. So, this can be an anti-vaxxer problem and the rest of us can resume our lives.
I agree with your mini-rant, but would add After children under 12 have the opportunity to be vaxxed. I realized there are some that are immunocompromised that won't ever be able to (like my friends' son) and that really sucks, I don't know the answer for that.
@patespo1 posted:I agree with your mini-rant, but would add After children under 12 have the opportunity to be vaxxed. I realized there are some that are immunocompromised that won't ever be able to (like my friends' son) and that really sucks, I don't know the answer for that.
The only solution for anyone in that situation is for the rest of society to do the right thing and get vaccinated. Beating this thing down is the only way.
As long as most of the world, or even a small percentage of the world remains unvaccinated, the virus will continue to mutate which may pose a threat even to the fully vaccinated. So yes, we in OECD countries should all be vaccinated but if we really want to return to life before Covid we need to ensure that the developing world is vaccinated too. Otherwise the next variant could make all our current vaccines pointless.
@patespo1 posted:I agree with your mini-rant, but would add After children under 12 have the opportunity to be vaxxed. I realized there are some that are immunocompromised that won't ever be able to (like my friends' son) and that really sucks, I don't know the answer for that.
+1
Totally on board with this.
"Most days during the coronavirus pandemic, Cardinal Raymond L. Burke could be found strolling down the streets of Rome maskless and carrying rosary beads. The 73-year-old conservative cardinal was an early critic of social distancing and, later, an unabashed skeptic of the vaccine.
Last Tuesday, Burke announced he had tested positive for the coronavirus. Now, the cardinal is in a hospital bed in his native Wisconsin, breathing with the help of a ventilator."
Ha ha.
News is reporting that the FDA is going to soon recommend boosters of Pfizer or Moderna for everyone at the 8 month mark. I don't think there will be quite the rush and panic for the booster as there was for the original vaccines. I suspect it will be more like the flu shot; people will get them when it is convenient for them to do so.
If you got your Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, you have a good solid level of immunity, even against the Delta variant, and it won't matter too much whether you get the booster at the 8 month, or 9 month, or 10 month mark.
Of course, that being said, I'll be getting mine as early as I can.
Texas Governor Abbott just tested positive for COVID. Guess he should've worn a mask.
Across the hall from me in my office building is another lawyer's office. He has three employees....a bookkeeper and two paralegal/secretaries. The bookkeeper refuses to get vaccinated, as does one of the other two. Well, the bookkeeper's 22 year old son has tested positive...he lives at home with his parents, so the bookkeeper and her husband have been tested and are awaiting results.
The lawyer who runs that office has now banned the bookkeeper from the office, pending the results of her test. In a rather remarkable display of chutzpah, the bookkeeper emailed him and wants to know if she will be paid during her absence from the office.
The one paralegal/secretary who won't get a vaccine is opposed to putting foreign substances in her body. Of course, she smokes cigarettes (which are clearly organic and healthful).
No shortage of morons.
And morons like to reproduce.
Our boys started (Catholic) school today, and while the Diocese strongly recommends, they aren't mandating masks. Once again showing they are only Pro-Life before children are born.
So let your kids wear a mask...they need to be mandated to do so?
@napacat posted:So let your kids wear a mask...they need to be mandated to do so?
No, MY kids don't need mandated because we aren't idiots. But when you have a grade school where all of the students are too young to be vaccinated, and there are plenty of families that don't believe in vaccines, masks, or even empathy towards others, then yes mandates are needed. If you want proof, look at the state of Florida right now.
You still don't need a mandate. Want to be vaccinated...go ahead and get it. Want to wear a mask or two...wear them. You don't need to extrapolate that people don't have empathy...that is a summation on your part not remotely based on facts.
Do you need to be mandated to wear clothes when you go to a restaurant?
School are the same, you dont get vaccinated, don't goto school Power to choose. Home school the kids.
speaking of personal responsibility.
These idiots catch covid, then request and get free healthcare. That's not personal responsibility when tax payers li ke me have to pay for it.
10 cents mask, 15$ vaccine, or a 15000$ hospital stay with an ongoing 1500$ regeneron treatment?
Personal responsbility my ass. If you're a real republican and a fiscal conservative you should be appalled at the tax payer's waste.
napa sounds more like a dumb fan boi who has exactly 0 original thought of his own. stupid sheep.
@napacat posted:So let your kids wear a mask...they need to be mandated to do so?
Hey zero for brains! You are REQUIRED by law to have all kinds of shots before you go to school. So try explaining how this is different. Will not look for your dumb answer, as you have none,
We have over 500 students tested positive this week in school, and they just started class. ICU beds are full! Some teachers have died.
Wake up and smell the roses, but you need to get the nose away from two folks butts - Ron and the Dumpster.
As for the Ron Di ass ter he feel it is better to treat than prevent, of course he receive $5 million for the jerk that owns the pharm company.
According to The New York Times, deaths from Covid-19 in Florida have increased 123% over the last two weeks. Who's clapping now?
The Point: Masking DOES NOT have to be a political issue. It is a public health matter. Except politicians like De ass tis can't seem to grasp that fact. Or just don't want to, nor do you.
Gimme a break
Well, according to a new study from USF, Florida will peak on August 24th, we will be at herd immunity (90%) by September 11, and cases will drop dramatically after that.
From the article, "So because more people are getting vaccinated and more are voluntarily wearing masks..."
While the governor, the best friend a virus ever had, does everything he can to stop mask wearing.
What do those pesky scientists know? Are any of them planning to run for President?! NO!
Napacat
On a personal note get lost.
My wife was in hospital with absolutly no visitors, for a week.
Then transfers to a rehab facility with visitors. AND WAS IN GOOD HEALTH
All the staff at rehab was not vaccinated. They never asked for proof of vax from any visitor. You had to sign a form that said you were okay, and allowed you to lie.
To be released after a week she had to take a COVID test. She caught it there! Now I have her home "locked" away for 10-14 days in the quest suite.
So when I hear your crap I will take it personally. Wear a mask, take the shot, social distance.
FL, I’m sorry for what your wife went through. Glad she is home.
Personal freedoms end at public welfare. I can't shoot guns off in public because I want to. I don't have smallpox, polio, mumps, measles, rubella, diphteria, pertussis, hepatitis, and rarely get or have mild influenza annually because of vaccines, and sanitary public health practices around sick people.
BTW, yes the cost to self for $.01 mask, and free vaccine vs $20,000 for hospitalization, medical treatments, and ICU care ignores also this: 1- 10% Long haul COVID persists health care costs, disability, lack of work productivity etc. 2- The South has few open beds in ICU's. This impact, rarely discussed, means if others need a bed; Multi [ eg MVA] trauma, severe cardiac or neurologic event, acute especially abdominal surgery, they must wait or get a step down [less monitoring]. 3- Medical personnel are exhausted, more going on quarantine or isolation and out from work. Care is lessened. Outpatient elective procedures or visits are decreased, impacting cancer patients most.
It's time to impose the continued health of the majority on the impish ignorance of the minority.
FL, I'm also sorry to hear about that. Best luck and I'm sure she will pull through fine.
Best of luck FLWINO to your wife.
@drtannin 2 posted:Personal freedoms end at public welfare. I can't shoot guns off in public because I want to. I don't have smallpox, polio, mumps, measles, rubella, diphteria, pertussis, hepatitis, and rarely get or have mild influenza annually because of vaccines, and sanitary public health practices around sick people.
BTW, yes the cost to self for $.01 mask, and free vaccine vs $20,000 for hospitalization, medical treatments, and ICU care ignores also this: 1- 10% Long haul COVID persists health care costs, disability, lack of work productivity etc. 2- The South has few open beds in ICU's. This impact, rarely discussed, means if others need a bed; Multi [ eg MVA] trauma, severe cardiac or neurologic event, acute especially abdominal surgery, they must wait or get a step down [less monitoring]. 3- Medical personnel are exhausted, more going on quarantine or isolation and out from work. Care is lessened. Outpatient elective procedures or visits are decreased, impacting cancer patients most.
It's time to impose the continued health of the majority on the impish ignorance of the minority.
Thanks for the clear concise explanation of why people need to stop being afraid of the vaccine and get their shots!
@drtannin 2 posted:Personal freedoms end at public welfare. I can't shoot guns off in public because I want to. I don't have smallpox, polio, mumps, measles, rubella, diphteria, pertussis, hepatitis, and rarely get or have mild influenza annually because of vaccines, and sanitary public health practices around sick people.
BTW, yes the cost to self for $.01 mask, and free vaccine vs $20,000 for hospitalization, medical treatments, and ICU care ignores also this: 1- 10% Long haul COVID persists health care costs, disability, lack of work productivity etc. 2- The South has few open beds in ICU's. This impact, rarely discussed, means if others need a bed; Multi [ eg MVA] trauma, severe cardiac or neurologic event, acute especially abdominal surgery, they must wait or get a step down [less monitoring]. 3- Medical personnel are exhausted, more going on quarantine or isolation and out from work. Care is lessened. Outpatient elective procedures or visits are decreased, impacting cancer patients most.
It's time to impose the continued health of the majority on the impish ignorance of the minority.
well said.
real fiscal conservatives would never argue against that either.
it's baffling to me how a bunch of idiots can ruin so much of this country
@flwino posted:Billhike
Thanks for your kindness. Other option was to be in hospital for 10 days and no visitors. Safer here. Every time I get near I need N95 Mask and or/face shield. We will make it thru!
Definitely best wishes to your wife and you. I'm sure we can all start sharing some bottles again soon!
One of my wife’s roommates from college just tested positive. She’s a Dentist with surgical privileges at a hospital. Fully vaccinated. Had mild symptoms only - akin to a cold she says. 2 of 3 others in house also fully vaccinated, the other not because not old enough - no positive tests among the others. Get the damn shot. They work.
Florida has now recorded slightly in excess of 42,000 deaths from Covid. Of these deaths, I suspect that about 42,000 of them were in unvaccinated people.
That is a lot of human misery and a huge toll on the state. At this time they are recording just under 1500 deaths per week.
Overall, about 54% of Florida's adults are vaccinated. (In Maryland, about 80% of adults are fully vaccinated).
What makes this so sad is that since the vaccines became available, deaths are nearly 100% avoidable.
The shot works.
but hey a horse dewormer has fda approved.
https://www.rollingstone.com/p...id-fox-news-1215168/
@irwin posted:Florida has now recorded slightly in excess of 42,000 deaths from Covid. Of these deaths, I suspect that about 42,000 of them were in unvaccinated people.
That is a lot of human misery and a huge toll on the state. At this time they are recording just under 1500 deaths per week.
Overall, about 54% of Florida's adults are vaccinated. (In Maryland, about 80% of adults are fully vaccinated).
What makes this so sad is that since the vaccines became available, deaths are nearly 100% avoidable.
The shot works.
There is a difference You have Gov Hogan We have Gov Ron Trump
Pfizer received full F.D.A. approval today for its vaccine.
I think we will see a wave of new vaccine requirements by hospitals, businesses, schools, etc.
@Rothko posted:Pfizer received full F.D.A. approval today for its vaccine.
I think we will see a wave of new vaccine requirements by hospitals, businesses, schools, etc.
I see my local hospital had 75 doctors walk out due to conditions, crowding etc. Glad my honey is home from that hospital.
@Rothko posted:Pfizer received full F.D.A. approval today for its vaccine.
I think we will see a wave of new vaccine requirements by hospitals, businesses, schools, etc.
And a whole new slew of reasons not to take it among the vaccine hesitant (aka f*cking morons).
@csm posted:And a whole new slew of reasons not to take it among the vaccine hesitant (aka f*cking morons).
Why would there be a new slew was now being FDA approved?? I guess people could question the FDA approval but are no longer able to call it an experimental drug. I expect a very slight increase in people getting vaccinated, maybe 5%, because as you say most of these people at this point are "f*cking morons."
@The Old Man posted:Why would there be a new slew was now being FDA approved?? I guess people could question the FDA approval but are no longer able to call it an experimental drug. I expect a very slight increase in people getting vaccinated, maybe 5%, because as you say most of these people at this point are "f*cking morons."
A former regular poster here who is a Facebook friend and a huge fan of Trump said he was refusing to get the shot because it was "experimental". A mutual friend who was also a former poster here and a doctor kept explaining to him that with millions of doses globally and so few examples of dire side effects, the vaccine was safe. So now that the vaccine is no longer experimental we both asked him if he was getting his shot now and his reply was a slew of links to obscure mama's-basement websites about how the FDA was dishonest, incompetent, etc etc.
Trumpanzees gonna be Trumpanzees, so I doubt this will move the number of those vaccinated much, certainly nowhere near what would be needed for herd immunity. And so the restrictions will continue in states with sensible governors. And the hospitalizations and deaths will continue to rise in those with idiot governors.
My prediction is that the vaccine hesitant that justified not getting the shot because it was not fully approved will now invent reasons as to why the full FDA approval happened more quickly for this vaccine than it normally does. For example the drug companies paid off the FDA, the government is trying to get more microchips in arms and felt that granting approval would result in an increase in people taking the shot, Bill Gates called Biden and pressured him into pressuring the FDA. None will make any sense or be real, but there will be a pivot among at least a portion of the individuals that are very generously referred to as "vaccine hesitant" rather than "raving lunatics."
@bman posted:And the hospitalizations and deaths will continue to rise in those with idiot governors.
interesting you say this because I would most certainly count Florida among the idiot governor cabal, however, USF researches have some modeling that predicts that the percentage of vaccinated residents combined with those that have some immunity from infection will result in Florida achieving herd immunity in Floriday by Sept 7. I don't have the first clue whether the study or the modeling is credible and the story's a couple of weeks old so it may already be out of date, but I found it interesting nonetheless. Also appears that the "achievement" will come at something of a devastating cost of unnecessary deaths.
@csm posted:interesting you say this because I would most certainly count Florida among the idiot governor cabal, however, USF researches have some modeling that predicts that the percentage of vaccinated residents combined with those that have some immunity from infection will result in Florida achieving herd immunity in Floriday by Sept 7. I don't have the first clue whether the study or the modeling is credible and the story's a couple of weeks old so it may already be out of date, but I found it interesting nonetheless. Also appears that the "achievement" will come at something of a devastating cost of unnecessary deaths.
Interesting. People seem to forget that those who were infected carry some degree of immunity but from what I've read, it fades more quickly than immunity in those vaccinated. And I thought that 90% or more needed to be vaccinated or have immunity from an earlier infection, and it doesn't seem that Florida would be there. But as always, the science evolves so who knows?
In any case, de Santis is still an idiot....
Very true bman. Quebec counts those with a prior vaccination as partially immunized because the prevailing view is that the immunity fades more quickly than it does with one of the vaccines (my understanding anyway). Irregardless, de Santis is a clown and an idiot most assuredly.
@csm posted:Very true bman. Quebec counts those with a prior vaccination as partially immunized because the prevailing view is that the immunity fades more quickly than it does with one of the vaccines (my understanding anyway). Irregardless, de Santis is a clown and an idiot most assuredly.
I think you mean prior infection, right?
@csm posted:Very true bman. Quebec counts those with a prior vaccination as partially immunized because the prevailing view is that the immunity fades more quickly than it does with one of the vaccines (my understanding anyway). Irregardless, de Santis is a clown and an idiot most assuredly.
The scary part is Gov. Ron Trump leads many polls for 2024 GOP listing for Prez. He is really insanity running large. Treat Covid, don't prevent it. Our rate of VAX will be tied with ALA soon.
Immunity against one variant isn't the same as against others, depending on how much the virus mutates. The decreased efficacy of vaccines is in part due to this. Example- Why flu shots are revised every year is based on S. Hemisphere or other predominant circulating viruses that summer. And, remember, herd immunity is the least desirable way to become immune, since it requires sickness, hospitalization, death, long term disability to achieve population coverage and works only until the next appreciably different variant or other infectious agent arrives. It's not yet horrific with the current strains of the flu or corona, but is a method of extinction with smallpox and was horrific with polio and Spanish flu. That's why the observation of pus from smallpox giving some immunity led to variolation and then vaccination.
The vaccines work better than is stated. The delta variant is more infective than early alpha strains [higher loads entering cells and replicating over time.] The alpha strain caused illness mostly in elderly >65, those with heart disease, diabetes, obesity, hypertension. But, little comparative disease in young people or kids. Death rates for people under 40 were <.02%. The delta is causing disease, hospitalization and death in young adults and kids similar to the alpha in the sicker older group, [since vast majority of older people were the ones vaccinated] . To gauge efficacy of the vaccine, one must compare effects of delta now with those of alpha on young adults in 2020. Ten to hundred fold increase in hospitalizations and deaths by delta. And, 97% of those now hospitalized are the unvaccinated, yet they are less than half the number of people vaccinated, further dramatizing how much vaccines work. So, to eschew the vaccine now is far worse than one might think.
Immunity from boosters appreciably enhances overall immunity [ part of why PFE MRNA were dual shots] even if not specific to the new variant, as mutations are rarely abruptly radical to leave vaccines completely ineffective. Immunity is also both "acute" with antibodies to various antigens, and "less acute" with T cells. The acute component is important to maintain short illness and lessen contagion and secondary spread. The mRNA vaccine boosted the acute response from 60% to 95% efficacy against illness going from 1 to 2 doses. That's why two doses were given. A 3rd booster will likely recover the interval loss of efficacy from time. Breakthroughs in the vaccinated will become rare again; the unvaccinated will once again be alone in the ICU.
The mandates will be significant. States and businesses will impose financial repercussions [already happening]. So will insurance companies not covering COVID costs [already happening]. Loss of work, penalties and costs for noncompliance, uncovered hospital bills, social isolation. AND the rage of the vaccinated heaped upon the recalcitrant unvaccinated losers will worsen as their medical costs, and national costs of delayed economic growth and inflation will become the burden now also borne by the vaccinated. DeSantis staking his career on wrong interpretations of a non peer reviewed study against the preponderance of the evidence is taking a career risk that will appeal to fewer and fewer people. When huge throngs of kids get sick and die, he will be but a historical footnote. People care about their kids, nit so much Afghanistan. We will see how that goes.
@Rothko posted:I think you mean prior infection, right?
Correct. Trying to multitask at work.
Thanks for that analysis Dr T. Always nice to hear things from an actual doctor.
Another quick thanks to Dr. Tannin. Too many amateur virologists and epidemiologists floating around. When the average person gets on a plane, we don't check the flight plan, instead relying upon the expertise of the pilot.
But, politicians are another breed. Take Governor DeSantis of Florida. He's belittled the virus and its transmissibility. One third of Florida's counties have vaccination rates of under 35%. Down in Florida, they now have just over 200 deaths per day from Covid. By the time the election of 2024 arrives, Florida will be a blue state, because of the deaths of Republican and rural voters. It's the greatest voter suppression strategy invented, because dead people don't vote (except in Chicago).
@irwin posted:It's the greatest voter suppression strategy invented, because dead people don't vote (except in Chicago).
This made me laugh out loud, well done.
The polling right now in Florida is indicating that a substantial majority of people here blame DeSantis for the Covid surge, and don't think he is doing enough to help fight it, and in fact is hurting things with his efforts to invalidate mask mandates, his fights with the school districts, vaccine passports, etc.
https://news.yahoo.com/poll-61...l?fr=sycsrp_catchall
The number of deaths in Florida just reached a new daily high. And I think those numbers will continue for a while.
But, this surge is going to end. The numbers of Covid infections, hospitalizations, and deaths will go back down eventually. According to a USF model, we may be reaching peak now, and infections will soon be dropping.
The question is, will the Florida voters remember this time, or forget about it, by the time the 2022 gubernatorial election is held?
Too many voters with the moronic mindset of our resident CHoaD for that to happen. The party of voter suppression, press intimidation, insurrection and death will continue to rule Florida like an American taliban. Good luck.
NY Covid deaths just jumped by 12,000 after Hochul took office and corrected Cuomo's erroneous and blatant manipulation of the numbers. They now reflect with CDC's.
Delta Airlines just announced they are going to charge their unvaccinated employees a $200 surcharge per month for health insurance. Or you can go get the free vaccine and not be charged the extra $200 per.
@arsenal4ever posted:NY Covid deaths just jumped by 12,000 after Hochul took office and corrected Cuomo's erroneous and blatant manipulation of the numbers. They now reflect with CDC's.
Good riddance to him.
@Rothko posted:The polling right now in Florida is indicating that a substantial majority of people here blame DeSantis for the Covid surge, and don't think he is doing enough to help fight it, and in fact is hurting things with his efforts to invalidate mask mandates, his fights with the school districts, vaccine passports, etc.
https://news.yahoo.com/poll-61...l?fr=sycsrp_catchall
The number of deaths in Florida just reached a new daily high. And I think those numbers will continue for a while.
But, this surge is going to end. The numbers of Covid infections, hospitalizations, and deaths will go back down eventually. According to a USF model, we may be reaching peak now, and infections will soon be dropping.
The question is, will the Florida voters remember this time, or forget about it, by the time the 2022 gubernatorial election is held?
I have no doubt either thr delta + the episilon or the lambda variant will remind everyone it is still around.
Call me a pessimist but covid didnt have to be like this but now that there are multiple strains out there with only at best a 6 month protection for vaccinated and previously infected with younger and younger kids infected.
In my opinion covid will mutate into one of the more deadlier strains like what MERS was and people would just drop so fast there will be nothing we can do
@g-man posted:In my opinion covid will mutate into one of the more deadlier strains like what MERS was and people would just drop so fast there will be nothing we can do
That's a pleasant thought...
@billhike posted:He’s mad the 20 cases of Meiomi he ordered shipped in the heat. Like it will hurt it.
yea but it attracts the wrong kind of folks =P
My wife found out today that one of her friends suffered a heart attack a couple days ago at their mountain cabin. Her husband rushed her to the hospital (I'm not sure which one), and it was full up with COVID patients. She had to be attended to in some outbuilding in the parking lot. Fortunately, she pulled through, but it could have gone either way.
IMO, anyone who refuses to take the vaccine should have to sign something saying that they agree they will not be allowed access to major medical care if they contract the virus.
I think that basically everyone in the US will ultimately get Covid. It's too transmissible. But those of us who have been vaccinated will either not know we have it, because it is asymptomatic, or, our symptoms will be minor inconveniences. Maybe we'll be sick for a day or two.
Those persons who stubbornly insist that the vaccines are a bad thing, for one illogical and uninformed reason or another, will get Covid, and a number of them will wind up in the hospital or worse.
Per the Dep't of Health and Human Services, life expectancy in the US is now calculated to be one year below what it was pre-Covid.
nothing like ingesting more chlorine in your body because you don't wanna get a vaccine.
"Supply shortages meant that utilities in Orlando only had enough oxygen to safely treat a two-week supply of water as of Wednesday, according to WFTV. Meanwhile, Tampa Bay Water told its customers that the shortage has forced them to change the way that they treat water and that they should expect a change in taste since more bleach would need to be used."
There were 6000 calls to the Poison Control center in Texas last week, from Ivermectin overdoses by antivaxxers. Nothing like taking an animal antiparasitic to prevent COVID; even the horses are laughing.
A recent study out of England confirmed 9x increased degree of substantial blood clots from COVID in unvaccinated than in vaccinated people.
Antivaxxers/antimaskers continue to show wit and wisdom in public meetings concerning school masking for kids. Assaulting teachers, staging disruptions, tring to show how spoons stick to vaccinated arms. Somehow the US is the only country that refuses both vaccines and masks, basically sending kids to slaughter while touting "Right to Life"
Antivaxxers find ever more excuses, the latest that the government is in cahoots with big pharma after the announcing "full" approval of the vaccine. Pfizer's new marketing ad with a Big Blue Pill front and center should be "You trusted your penis to us, why not the rest of your body?"
"There were 6000 calls to the Poison Control center in Texas last week, from Ivermectin overdoses by antivaxxers. Nothing like taking an animal antiparasitic to prevent COVID; even the horses are laughing."
There are alot of idiots around. The horses are laughing? Neigh!
Years ago I had tendinitis in my wrist. Doc prescribed a drug called butazoladine. (spelling?) I got better. Some years later the problem came back. Went to the same doc. I reminded him of the earlier Rx, and he said, "We don't give that anymore." I asked, "why not?" He said, "It killed too many people."
Butazoladine was given to racehorses to hide their arthritic and joint pain. I did notice that when I was on it, I had a tremendous desire to stand in my backyard and eat hay.
In Peru - double mask wearing was required indoors and faceshields also on buses and trains. Largely population compliant and no issues.
Flight home, first things we see and hear is a woman pronouncing she is an anti-vaxxer and another moron in an anti-Fauci shirt with something about public enemy. I muttered to myself I was going to change into my "you are a moron" t-shirt.
Gov Ron lost his fight. Courts say that school districts can mandate masks. Hopefully we can save a lot of school students
@drtannin 2 posted:There were 6000 calls to the Poison Control center in Texas last week, from Ivermectin overdoses by antivaxxers. Nothing like taking an animal antiparasitic to prevent COVID; even the horses are laughing.
A recent study out of England confirmed 9x increased degree of substantial blood clots from COVID in unvaccinated than in vaccinated people.
Antivaxxers/antimaskers continue to show wit and wisdom in public meetings concerning school masking for kids. Assaulting teachers, staging disruptions, tring to show how spoons stick to vaccinated arms. Somehow the US is the only country that refuses both vaccines and masks, basically sending kids to slaughter while touting "Right to Life"
Antivaxxers find ever more excuses, the latest that the government is in cahoots with big pharma after the announcing "full" approval of the vaccine. Pfizer's new marketing ad with a Big Blue Pill front and center should be "You trusted your penis to us, why not the rest of your body?"
The President, every living ex-President, every Governor, 98 percent of physicians, and 98 percent of the members of Congress are vaccinated.
People say that folks who don't get vaccinated are morons. Well, this is evidence that even some morons get vaccinated.
CNN: "The European Union recommended on Monday that Americans should be banned from nonessential travel to its member states after a rise in Covid-19 cases in the United States.
"Countries within the 27-nation bloc, which includes France, Italy and Germany, have been advised to reinstate coronavirus-related restrictions and halt the arrival of tourists from the US and five other countries."
We're #1, we're #1!
From MSN: "If enforced, the new restrictions would only apply to unvaccinated travelers — the European Council already recommends that all visitors who have been fully inoculated with an E.U.-approved vaccine be allowed to travel. That includes the three vaccines available in the United States."
More evidence of the longer-term impact of Covid on America's well-being:
More than 600,000 Americans have died from the coronavirus pandemic that began in early 2020, and case levels have increased in recent weeks, leading to projections of a spike in deaths later this year. Deaths are also increasing but vaccinations against the virus should keep total mortality well below peak levels of more than 3,300 per day that the nation experienced in January, experts believe."""
80% of Marylanders over age of 12 have been vaccinated. 94.5% of Marylanders 65 and over have had at least one vaccination.
This is according to the governor’s press release of 9/1.
In the north coastal area in San Diego county there's a world of what we used to call woo woo. This was outside of a natural food store in Encinitas. Which is a particular hotbed of 
alternative medicine and alternative facts. Be sure to zoom on the license plate frame.
Attachments
According to the CDC, it is estimated that over 83% of Americans had Covid antibodies, from either prior infection or the vaccine by May 2021, before the latest Delta surge began. That's from a statistical study; the actual rate may be different, of course.
But makes you wonder... If 83% of Americans already had some level of immunity, is this current surge just gobbling up the last 17% of Americans? If so, shouldn't we be at herd immunity, if that really exists, very soon?
@Rothko posted:But makes you wonder... If 83% of Americans already had some level of immunity, is this current surge just gobbling up the last 17% of Americans? If so, shouldn't we be at herd immunity, if that really exists, very soon?
From one of the many many articles you will find that explains that the immunity from infection is not as good as the vaccination.
"A prior infection offers protection in the range of 80%, compared to about 95% for the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines, said Dr. John Wherry, director of the Institute for Immunology at the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania. That means about 15 to 20 out of every 100 people who have previously had COVID-19 could get reinfected, while 5 out of every 100 people who got an mRNA vaccine might get infected."
Also there is a timeline to infected protection which appears to be 6 months to less than a year.
Thank you, Governor DeSantis: https://www.yahoo.com/news/15-...chool-021517732.html
NBC says 40 million Americans have at some point been infected by the coronavirus. That’s a little less than 1 of every 8 Americans.
Holy cow.
Here is the latest data from the CDC for Maryland, where we apparently have fewer morons per square mile than some other states:
- 95% of Marylanders 65 and older have received at least one dose.
- 81.5% of Marylanders 18 and older have received at least one dose.
- 80.4% of Marylanders 12 and older have received at least one dose.
@irwin posted:Here is the latest data from the CDC for Maryland, where we apparently have fewer morons per square mile than some other states:
- 95% of Marylanders 65 and older have received at least one dose.
- 81.5% of Marylanders 18 and older have received at least one dose.
- 80.4% of Marylanders 12 and older have received at least one dose.
How many are fully vaccinated? And is it presumed that those with only one dose will all or almost all get their second dose?
Heading to Miami Saturday for a week. My wife and I are both fully vaxxed, and will take all precautions during travel and while we are there. Still feel nervous heading that way.
@patespo1 posted:Heading to Miami Saturday for a week. My wife and I are both fully vaxxed, and will take all precautions during travel and while we are there. Still feel nervous heading that way.
Same here. Heading to Tampa tomorrow through Sunday. Even a short trip with specific destinations planned I'm still a little worried.
@wineismylife posted:Same here. Heading to Tampa tomorrow through Sunday. Even a short trip with specific destinations planned I'm still a little worried.
Bern's should be safe....
That's my hope. Not a lot os masks there though last time I was there in May.
My friend and I are going to Louisville next week to resume the Bourbon Trail. We're both vaccinated, but he's not as religious as I am about wearing a mask or refraining from group gatherings. He also has multiple underlying conditions, that makes me nervous. So far, I haven't heard as much about Kentucky as I have the neighboring states.
@wineismylife posted:That's my hope. Not a lot os masks there though last time I was there in May.
Interested to hear what you find on this trip. Last few times there I/we felt the list was a little 'picked over'. I know that sounds impossible but it seemed that way.
Best part is we stay at the Marriott across the street which makes it easy to bring any unfinished bottles back for a night cap.
Good luck guys. Mask wearing has increased here (not the tourists) although still is terrible compared to normal places.
My Dad is visiting from Maryland and sister just visited from D.C. and they were shocked to see people in CVS etc. unmasked.
@patespo1 posted:For a once or twice a year it's a pretty good place. Well appointed, nice bar/restaurant. Worth it, that's another story, but the location really does make it.
i really love grabbing a drink at the epicurean and the foods not bad at all either
and yea i do feel like the bern's list has been fairly picked over nowadays unfortunately
@patespo1 posted:Interested to hear what you find on this trip. Last few times there I/we felt the list was a little 'picked over'. I know that sounds impossible but it seemed that way.
Best part is we stay at the Marriott across the street which makes it easy to bring any unfinished bottles back for a night cap.
IT is definitely picked over. Zero doubt of that. But we worked with my regular somm Brad to pull some special bottles for the evening. I'll be over in Wine Conversations in a minute to post a list of what we drank. I'm satisfied and then some.
@bman posted:The Epicurean? Is it worth the cost, notwithstanding the fact it's across from Bern's?
In my book it is. Literally across the street from Bern's with a flashing light crosswalk to help warn drivers to slow down. You could literally crawl back to your room. Bern's has a fine wine store on site in the hotel. I bought 3 bottles to share. There were at least 6 others floating around the afternoon before dinner. Krug, Opus, Diamond Creek, Grand Dame, you name it. Lots of great wine and very reasomable prices in my opinion. Decent on site restaurant. Roof top bar. OK pool. 3 or so block walk down to the bay. The entire area surround it has been gentrified. Easy to get out and walk or bike (they have free bikes available) to all manner of local restaurants and bars. 5-10 minutes to downtown and Ybor City via Uber.
In short, when Bern's is part of my trip, I won't stay anywhere else.
@wineismylife posted:In my book it is. Literally across the street from Bern's with a flashing light crosswalk to help warn drivers to slow down. You could literally crawl back to your room. Bern's has a fine wine store on site in the hotel. I bought 3 bottles to share. There were at least 6 others floating around the afternoon before dinner. Krug, Opus, Diamond Creek, Grand Dame, you name it. Lots of great wine and very reasomable prices in my opinion. Decent on site restaurant. Roof top bar. OK pool. 3 or so block walk down to the bay. The entire area surround it has been gentrified. Easy to get out and walk or bike (they have free bikes available) to all manner of local restaurants and bars. 5-10 minutes to downtown and Ybor City via Uber.
In short, when Bern's is part of my trip, I won't stay anywhere else.
Thanks. Looking forward to getting there one of these days, presuming it's ever safe to go to Florida again! And we are allowed to cross the border......
To bring this back around to COVID. While on our trip to Tampa to have dinner at Bern's once we left the airport and our Uber where masks were required we saw ZERO masks. We passed bar after bar with people lined up tight knit to get in and zero masks. Same thing with restaurants. Long lines tight knit and no masks. Our hotel? Nope. Staff? Mostly nope. Even the receptionists. Hostess? Nope. Manager? Nope. Bern's? Nope. Lunch? Nope. No waiters or bartenders. It's the effing wild, wild west there right now.
Side note. Their hospitals are stuffed full of COVID patients. My friend fell while there. Had to go by ambulance to Tampa General for stitches, scans and observation. He was in a bed in a conference room. One visitor for two hours per day no switching out or anything. COVID patents get zero visitors allowed.
Yeah, it's the f*cking flu. Pass in a day or two. My immune system is bullet proof. It won't impact me. Sh!t for brains.
I just returned from a trip to the Galapagos. Ecuador is much more strict than we are; masks are required to be worn inside all buildings and outside as well, and in cars, vehicles, etc. And people just did it. No one protesting about their "freedumbs."
The cruise line requires all staff and guests to be vaccinated. Plus, to enter the Galapagos, you have to pass a PCR test also. Even once on the ship, we were required to wear masks at all times outside the cabin, including on the outside decks. In restaurants, lounges, etc you could take them off if eating or drinking. Yes, it was probably overkill. But here's the thing: the cruise went off without a Covid hitch. Everyone felt very safe and comfortable, knowing we were all vaccinated and tested too. And they are going to be able to cruise the next week, and the week after that, etc without a major Covid hiccup.
I was thinking about how messed up it is that Florida's Governor doesn't want to let cruise lines in Florida require 100% vaccinations. And how on those ships you'd never know if the person next to you was vaccinated or not. And how inevitably, there would be Covid infections amongst the unvaccinated on the cruise ships and the ships would probably have to cancel cruises, etc.
From a business perspective of a cruise line, it just makes sense to require all guests and staff to be vaccinated.
"The US death toll from Covid-19 just surpassed that of the 1918 flu pandemic."
We're number one, we're number one. Congrats to all the unvaccinated who made this milestone possible.
TOM - 103 million lived in the US in 2018, compared to 330 million now. From the 1920 census, 49% lived in rural areas. Not necessarily apples to apples, but still very sad.
@arsenal4ever posted:TOM - 103 million lived in the US in 2018, compared to 330 million now.
I know it’s just a typo, but what a horrifying thought that at this rate, we’d have a billion dumbasses by 2024.
@The Old Man posted:"The US death toll from Covid-19 just surpassed that of the 1918 flu pandemic."
We're number one, we're number one. Congrats to all the unvaccinated who made this milestone possible.
While I can surmise you’re probably referring to the anti-vax idiots currently clogging up hospitals and dying in droves, many of the first few hundred thousand deaths were of folks who never had a chance to get vaccinated. Congratulating those unlucky folks is extremely poor form…….
@arsenal4ever posted:TOM - 103 million lived in the US in 2018, compared to 330 million now. From the 1920 census, 49% lived in rural areas. Not necessarily apples to apples, but still very sad.
Yes, our healthcare systems, biotech knowledge, logistics to dispense vaccines at scale, and ability to educate the public of the efficacy of safe health practices haven’t advanced much in the past 100 years at all, amirite you tosser?
/sarcasm
@Insight posted:While I can surmise you’re probably referring to the anti-vax idiots currently clogging up hospitals and dying in droves, many of the first few hundred thousand deaths were of folks who never had a chance to get vaccinated. Congratulating those unlucky folks is extremely poor form…….
I guess you missed the point that we never could have reached this milestone without people refusing to be vaccinated. While the prevaccine deaths are of course tragic even many (not most) of those deaths were also caused by people who didn't take the virus seriously. Their president told them it was no big deal, so they wouldn't mask up and they continued to gather in large groups.
@The Old Man posted:I guess you missed the point that we never could have reached this milestone without people refusing to be vaccinated. While the prevaccine deaths are of course tragic many of those deaths were also caused by people who didn't take the virus seriously. Their president told them it was no big deal, so they wouldn't mask up and they continued to gather in large groups.
The first sentence of my reply made it abundantly obvious that I was aware of the intent of your post. There are unfortunately too many who passed away pre-vaccine that worked in essential capacities like healthcare, agriculture and service industries who couldn’t avoid exposure. You denigrate them when you stated that “congrats to ALL THE UNVACCINATED who made this milestone possible”. Their deaths are included in the total count. We wouldn’t be at this milestone otherwise.
Now if you had used a modifier such as “willfully” or “profligate” (or better yet, both of those modifiers), you would have insulted the many dummies while acknowledging the victims who were careful but unfortunate……..
@Insight posted:The first sentence of my reply made it abundantly obvious that I was aware of the intent of your post. There are unfortunately too many who passed away pre-vaccine that worked in essential capacities like healthcare, agriculture and service industries who couldn’t avoid exposure. You denigrate them when you stated that “congrats to ALL THE UNVACCINATED who made this milestone possible”. Their deaths are included in the total count. We wouldn’t be at this milestone otherwise.
Now if you had used a modifier such as “willfully” or “profligate” (or better yet, both of those modifiers), you would have insulted the many dummies while acknowledging the victims who were careful but unfortunate……..
Go clutch your pearls elsewhere. For whatever reason you choose to interpret it the way you do. No surprise there. That's on you not me.
No need to bicker. The unvaccinated who choose to remain that way w/o substantial medical reason are the pariahs. They deserve our collective anger. There has been plenty of time to educate oneself and respond in the public good. The reality is we have become ( more of) a self serving narcissistic intolerant country of warring tribes, the Un-United States. The sadness is that health science is entangled with uneducated misinformation promulgated by (anti)social media. Now to things I have some expertise in: On the science front, some good news: presence or absence of reactions to vaccines has no relation to adequacy of antibody formation; initial boosters will be available and recommended for those people who suffered most with initial strains- older than 65, health care workers and those with unavoidable exposure, and the immune compromised people; sadly, health care worker morale has plummeted affecting staffing and care; several states are rationing care away from unvaccinated COVID patients, but still affecting management availability and follow up of those with trauma, acute medical or surgical needs, and those with significant chronic conditions like cancer heart and lung disease. On the wine front, released 2018 looks great especially for Cal Cab and to a lesser extent for Zin, Pinot and Chard; 2019 also excellent, with the reverse order; but from discussion at several wineries, 2020 will be impacted by the fires variably, with both declassified wines and lower yields in part from tainted unusable grapes. In addition, plant and equipment damage had impact affecting harvest. Some wineries as a result will hold their ‘19’s for next year’s tastings and late releases . On the baseball front, the lovable loser NY Mets appear done with too many free agents to lose, but the Yanks are still fighting with the hated RedSox for wild card ( great for season’s end interest) and as usual some surprises; and despite lower BA (.245) and still too much of three outcomes (K,Bb,HR) the season made it through with any real COVID hiccups and Ohtani and Vlad Jr have been superb. The 2022 Hall of Fame ballot has 3 on last go around (Schilling Bonds Clemens) and 2 first timers (ARod and DOrtiz) and tainted in some way. The writers have been less inclined to vote against the steroid users but not enough yet. Maybe further away SRolen gets in And finally WWS fantasy BB ends, for me and several others on this site, but for me a frustrating year, performance the worst in 16 years.
Reddit has a site for the Herman Cain Awards - people who loudly and vociferously denied Covid and/or the vaccines and then got infected and died from Covid.
Schadenfreude at its best / worst.
Rothko - Yea just heard about this. A subset of Darwin awards. It’s about time for public shame and embarrassment; too bad, I suspect, the effect will be limited. When children are affected this fall and winter, then there may be more outcry
Two coworkers that I was in a meeting with Friday morning tested positive with breakthrough cases. We were all masked. Got a negative test result today - whew. I’m back to telling people to stay out my workspace or feel the wrath.
We still have a surprising amount of people who won’t get jabs.
@drtannin 2 posted:Rothko - Yea just heard about this. A subset of Darwin awards. It’s about time for public shame and embarrassment; too bad, I suspect, the effect will be limited. When children are affected this fall and winter, then there may be more outcry
"It's about time for public shame and embarrassment" --- I'm all in on that. I won't let anyone in my office who has not been vaccinated. If shopping malls, restaurants, entertainment venues, government offices, doctor's offices, my fellow lawyer's offices, brick and mortar stores, Ubers and Lyfts and taxis and trains and buses and planes, and all manner of other things were just closed to the unvaccinated, I think we'd see more vaccinations.
"California now has nation's lowest virus transmission rate"
"California's rate is 94 cases per 100,000. By comparison, Texas is 386 and Florida is 296. State experts say relatively high vaccination rates in California ahead of the arrival of the delta variant made a difference, and additional measures, such as masking, also helped stem the surge."
Well, duh.
@billhike posted:Two coworkers that I was in a meeting with Friday morning tested positive with breakthrough cases. We were all masked. Got a negative test result today - whew. I’m back to telling people to stay out my workspace or feel the wrath.
We still have a surprising amount of people who won’t get jabs.
I caught it from my little one who has 2 kids in his class that are out with covid.
He's still sneezing, I finally tested negative last week but I still can't shake this cough and my jogging mileage has cut in half cuz it feels like a 20 lb dumbbell on my chest.
But thank goodness i'm vaccinated.
@irwin posted:"It's about time for public shame and embarrassment" --- I'm all in on that. I won't let anyone in my office who has not been vaccinated. If shopping malls, restaurants, entertainment venues, government offices, doctor's offices, my fellow lawyer's offices, brick and mortar stores, Ubers and Lyfts and taxis and trains and buses and planes, and all manner of other things were just closed to the unvaccinated, I think we'd see more vaccinations.
i mean, if folks really really thought we were going to turn into a "communist country", they'd have their house doors welded shut or potentially shipped off in trains somewhere.
and in more fun news
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...AOVJme?ocid=msedgntp
looks like covid can be a trigger for diabetes.
Anybody gotten a third booster shot yet?
I guess I have to wait until they authorize Moderna for a booster.
@Rothko posted:Anybody gotten a third booster shot yet?
I guess I have to wait until they authorize Moderna for a booster.
Ditto. Waiting for official approval of the Moderna booster. I'll be exactly 6 months out from my second shot tomorrow the 30th.
@wineismylife posted:Ditto. Waiting for official approval of the Moderna booster. I'll be exactly 6 months out from my second shot tomorrow the 30th.
Me three although I am 5 months not 6. FKG had a second J&J
@wineismylife posted:Ditto. Waiting for official approval of the Moderna booster. I'll be exactly 6 months out from my second shot tomorrow the 30th.
I just realized today is exactly 6 months for me!
@jcocktosten posted:Me three although I am 5 months not 6. FKG had a second J&J
Interesting. Just went to a place offering it? My wife and I both got the JJ in March. I haven’t heard that second jabs of it were good to go yet.
It is my understanding that a lot of places including many in my area that if you show up and tell them you are immunocompromised they will go ahead and give you a Moderna or J&J booster.
I got my Moderna booster 5 weeks ago. I wanted it before I went to France. Mrs. H got hers two weeks ago after she returned from Taiwan. Just made an appt at a local pharmacy. In and out in no time.
Today. Pfizer.
@billhike posted:Interesting. Just went to a place offering it? My wife and I both got the JJ in March. I haven’t heard that second jabs of it were good to go yet.
Public free vaccine events - no questions asked - if you want them, you get them.
A Covid researcher we know, strongly advised she get a second dose as soon as possible given what a cluster**** Florida is - so . . .
From what I have been reading, the FDA is looking at authorizing a Moderna booster shot that would be 1/2 the amount of vaccine as the original. The original shot contained 100 micrograms of the vaccine goodies; the booster would be 50 micrograms. Lower chance of negative side effects.
I don't fall into any of the approved categories for the Pfizer booster yet, but I'll be first in line when I do. I think they're a little more circumspect in WA state about who they give them to.
I'll be getting a flu shot on Sunday morning. Debating this: If they offer me a Moderna booster, do I take it? (I am >65, but not immunocompromised). I guess if I'm going to have a sore arm, I may as well have a sore arm once.
@irwin posted:I'll be getting a flu shot on Sunday morning. Debating this: If they offer me a Moderna booster, do I take it? (I am >65, but not immunocompromised). I guess if I'm going to have a sore arm, I may as well have a sore arm once.
I'd take the booster if it's available. They might not offer it to you unless you ask. And you don't have to be immunocompromised, per se (cancer, lupus, etc.). You can have asthma or high blood pressure and be eligible. In NYS, being over 65 is enough, without any other factors at play. I don't know about MD.
@irwin posted:I'll be getting a flu shot on Sunday morning. Debating this: If they offer me a Moderna booster, do I take it? (I am >65, but not immunocompromised). I guess if I'm going to have a sore arm, I may as well have a sore arm once.
No booster is yet approved or recommended for the Moderna vaccine regardless of age.
@The Old Man posted:No booster is yet approved or recommended for the Moderna vaccine regardless of age.
They are giving Moderna (and Pfizer) boosters here in NYS . I know a lot of people here who got it. And friends in Hawai'i, too. I'm not disagreeing with you. Just saying that it's being administered widely.
Good for them! And the General. Mrs. H and I love Portugal, so that might be our next destination.
Serious question…no taking sides attacking others…just a general question with genuine replies. Is no one concerned about the potential side effects from the vaccine(s)? They are not fully without complications. Verse if you have already had COVID and have no co-morbidities.
@napacat posted:Serious question…no taking sides attacking others…just a general question with genuine replies. Is no one concerned about the potential side effects from the vaccine(s)? They are not fully without complications. Verse if you have already had COVID and have no co-morbidities.
Side effects are next to nothing according to reputable medical sources. Especially compared to the actual effects of Covid. Several here have had it including two who now have long Covid. Billions have been vaccinated and the seriously negative side effects as so rare as to be essentially meaningless.
The known side effects of the vaccine are trivial compared to the virus itself. Every medical procedure, more or less, has side effects. It's reasonable to be concerned about them. What is not reasonable is to be so concerned about small and trivial side effects that it prevents you from getting the vaccine, so as to protect yourself against the significant and potentially deadly consequence of getting the virus.
@irwin posted:The known side effects of the vaccine are trivial compared to the virus itself. Every medical procedure, more or less, has side effects. It's reasonable to be concerned about them. What is not reasonable is to be so concerned about small and trivial side effects that it prevents you from getting the vaccine, so as to protect yourself against the significant and potentially deadly consequence of getting the virus.
Exactly. I know some people (particularly women) who refuse to get vaccinated because the vaccines could cause blood clots. This is only a possibility, as far as I know, with the J&J. And even so, I tell these women (and others) that they are 10,000 more likely to get a blood clot from taking "the pill" than they are from any Covid vaccine. There is one side effect of the Moderna vaccine (and perhaps of Pfizer and others, too) is tinnitus. For some, it's temporary. For some others, like me, who already experience tinnitus, it can exacerbate it. But, the side effects are so bloody minimal, in terms of percentage of those vaccinated and compared to vaccines for other diseases, that I don't understand the hesitancy.