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Coronavirus 2019

J jcocktostenMember
@billhike posted:

Looks like they just announced some beach closings, including Key West.

And cancelled fireworks - not that it is going to do anything.  All of Miami, Fort Lauderdale, rednecks and others seem to have decided to come here and forget their problems and the existence of the pandemic.  I am listening to some vacation renters next door now although  I cannot tell if they are from Miami NY or NJ.  And they are relatively not annoying 

 

 

patespo1patespo1Member
@irwin posted:

I figure 2020 is a washout. No trips of significance. Very slow at work.  Little restaurant visitation.  It's like I had Tommy John surgery, and I'm on the DL for a year.

This is a good way to look at it.  We are staying afloat at my business, which is better than a number of people I know.  The big question we face is what will school look like this coming year, and will we be faced with home schooling again.  

R RothkoMember

patespo1:  I'm a huge proponent for schools opening at the end of summer.  I just feel that keeping kids out for another semester would be very detrimental to them, mentally, physically, and educationally. 

The children, for the most part, are less susceptible to the virus, don't infect as much as older people, and there are ways to minimize the risks to families, teachers, school employees, etc.

G g-manMember
@Rothko posted:

For some reason I can't cut and paste the link.  But there was a report that came out about a week or so ago.  Wait.  I figured it out.

https://www.clickondetroit.com...experience-symptoms/

This are the type of studies that do studies of other studies.

Ie, look at everyone else's work, not necessarily control for the right variables and see if you can't get any more information out of it that the original researchers didn't or didn't intend to answer.

But even so, the clickondetroit conclusion doesn't exactly match what the study in nature suggests

https://www.reuters.com/articl...us-age-idUSKBN23N1RP

"The findings suggest that school closures - introduced in many countries as part of lockdowns aimed at controlling the coronavirus pandemic - are likely to have a limited impact on transmission of the disease, the researchers said."

or, even if you don't close schools, the old folks are still likely to get it, is what they're suggesting.

R RothkoMember

So if old folks (and I'll put myself in that category, as I am no spring chicken) are still going to get it, then we should go ahead and open the schools.  As safely as possible.  Are kids going to get infected and bring it home to their families?  I am sure that will occur.  But you try to do everything you can to minimize the risk.

C csmMember
@Rothko posted:

patespo1:  I'm a huge proponent for schools opening at the end of summer.  I just feel that keeping kids out for another semester would be very detrimental to them, mentally, physically, and educationally. 

The children, for the most part, are less susceptible to the virus, don't infect as much as older people, and there are ways to minimize the risks to families, teachers, school employees, etc.

Very much agree with this.  I'm hearing that the (very powerful) teacher's union in Ontario is already setting up to fight to oppose reopening in September and are supported continuing "remote learning."  

winetarelliwinetarelliMember

It is true that far fewer under 17s get the virus, but there are contradicting opinions as to why. Most people who get the virus don’t spread it and many people who get it spread it to a lot of people.  Because schools did close first and children are mobile at their parents’ discretion, children had less opportunity to contract the virus and far far less opportunity to become super-spreaders. So we don’t really know for sure. 

The opening of colleges is absolutely ludicrous. 

  https://www.sfchronicle.com/ba...pals-in-15381335.php

(There is a paywall for the full article but it amounts to all the principals needing to quarantine because a contagious person came to the meeting about reopening schools.)

Last edited by winetarelli
G g-manMember
@Rothko posted:

So if old folks (and I'll put myself in that category, as I am no spring chicken) are still going to get it, then we should go ahead and open the schools.  As safely as possible.  Are kids going to get infected and bring it home to their families?  I am sure that will occur.  But you try to do everything you can to minimize the risk.

That's  HUGE assumption.  and it's really based on the fact that they think americans aren't going to wear masks nor stay at home.  Matter of fact, the US did exactly the same wargames called Crimson Dawn and came to the exact same conclusions.

So it's not the kids, it's everyone else around you.

I, for one, rather my kids be protected and not have to go through the horrors of staying in a hospital.

G g-manMember
@winetarelli posted:

It is true that far fewer under 17s get the virus, but there are contradicting opinions as to why. Most people who get the virus don’t spread it and many people who get it spread it to a lot of people.  Because schools did close first and children are mobile at their parents’ discretion, children had less opportunity to contract the virus and far far less opportunity to become super-spreaders. So we don’t really know for sure. 

The opening of colleges is absolutely ludicrous. 

  https://www.sfchronicle.com/ba...pals-in-15381335.php

(There is a paywall for the full article but it amounts to all the principals needing to quarantine because a contagious person came to the meeting about reopening schools.)

what folks dont mention is that the extra clogging platelets that cv19 happens upon the human body is similar to the blood blockage in dengue fever.

Kids have more younger cells and have bodies that can help alleviate the burden of being attacked by the virus, but it doesnt mean they're immune nor there might be long term factors that affect their health when they get older.

but yea i agree totally irresponsible to fly blind just because, money ...

The Old ManThe Old ManMember

From the LA Times, sometimes a virus can bring good news:

"San Diego — Scott Erskine, who was on death row for the gruesome 1993 abduction and murder of 13-year-old Charlie Keever and his 9-year-old friend Jonathan Sellers — in a case that haunted the county for almost a decade before it was solved — died this week from what prison officials said appear to be complications from COVID-19."

Last edited by The Old Man
winetarelliwinetarelliMember
@Rothko posted:

I hate to make this prediction, but I'll bet that Florida is going to overtake NY and California on cases by the fall.

NY has already dropped off to +/- 500 cases/day for the entire state. CA is in a bad place right now but has leadership that, so far, has seemed reasonably competent and has a populace that, by snd large, listens. Texas and Florida are in trouble, and it is hard to tell what will come. But it is certainly possible that, ultimately, they will be the two states hit the hardest. 

billhikebillhikeMember
@purplehaze posted:

I'm having concerns at the office.  Our managing partner wanders around mask-less all day.  One of the senior department heads regularly pulls his mask down, or pulls it below his nose when in close contact with staff and clients.  I am a former senior manager in this company but am in an ancillary position now.  Not sure how to address the issue.  Our HR department is feckless.  All it takes is one a$$#ol€ to kill my ass.

PH

Last week I was asked to start coming back to the office Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I’ve been working from home wine the second half of March - I made that decision and got management buy-in when people weren’t respecting distance. I had actually put signs with arrows on the floor outside my cubicle.  So since then, I’ve only gone in for a half day once a week to deal with quality issues and have a quick meeting with my boss, who is very responsible and respectful.

So today I’m in for a full day for the first time on a long time. We’ve had shitloads of communication about distance, masks in close quarters, etc. First thing, maintenance guy starts walking towards me talking, maskless, and I tell him to back up. Right before a Covid update meeting, I see our HR manager talking to the payroll guy within 4 feet, leaning over his cube wall. She then TAKES HER FUCKING MASK OFF and keeps talking; he neither backs away nor puts his mask on. I mention it to him later, and he says thanks for the reminder. Then at the meeting, two dildoheads ask to borrow my pen for the sign-in sheet. I refuse both of them, including one person way higher than me on the totem pole. I mean, why would a VP bring a pen to a meeting? Early afternoon, HR dumbass is again on the cubicle wall of the same guy from the morning, yapping away. I call her out and say she is closer to three feet than six. She looks at me like I’m an asshole, then continues the conversation. Payroll pussy doesn’t back up or put on a mask.

Fuctards. I’ll be back to working from home if I can’t change behavior by the end of the week. Un freaking believable.

VB Vino BevoMember
@billhike posted:

Last week I was asked to start coming back to the office Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I’ve been working from home wine the second half of March - I made that decision and got management buy-in when people weren’t respecting distance. I had actually put signs with arrows on the floor outside my cubicle.  So since then, I’ve only gone in for a half day once a week to deal with quality issues and have a quick meeting with my boss, who is very responsible and respectful.

So today I’m in for a full day for the first time on a long time. We’ve had shitloads of communication about distance, masks in close quarters, etc. First thing, maintenance guy starts walking towards me talking, maskless, and I tell him to back up. Right before a Covid update meeting, I see our HR manager talking to the payroll guy within 4 feet, leaning over his cube wall. She then TAKES HER FUCKING MASK OFF and keeps talking; he neither backs away nor puts his mask on. I mention it to him later, and he says thanks for the reminder. Then at the meeting, two dildoheads ask to borrow my pen for the sign-in sheet. I refuse both of them, including one person way higher than me on the totem pole. I mean, why would a VP bring a pen to a meeting? Early afternoon, HR dumbass is again on the cubicle wall of the same guy from the morning, yapping away. I call her out and say she is closer to three feet than six. She looks at me like I’m an asshole, then continues the conversation. Payroll pussy doesn’t back up or put on a mask.

Fuctards. I’ll be back to working from home if I can’t change behavior by the end of the week. Un freaking believable.

I shake my head as I read that Bill.  Looking around the few places we've experienced while venturing out here, we've seen something very similar even as Texas blows up.  It's unfathomable to me that folks would be so selfish they make a conscious decision to throw their middle finger at those around them and act this way.  No one knows the exact way to manage this, nor does anyone know the exact impact of following the guidelines, but we should all be able to reasonably agree that if they're right we can save not only lives but a lot of suffering, and if they're wrong you've simply wasted some time wearing a mask that (with few exceptions) did nothing to harm you. 

I saw an interview with Tom Hanks this morning where he compared the current situation to society during World War II:

"There was a sensibility during that time that permeated all of society, which was, do your part, we’re all in this together.  What that meant — doing your part — was there was a tiny bit of stuff that you could do in order to aid the ongoing status of an effort that had no sign of its conclusion.  Wear a mask, social distance, wash your hands.  That alone means you are contributing to the betterment of your house, your work, your town, society as a whole and it’s such a small thing, and it’s a mystery to me how somehow that has been wiped out of what should be ingrained in the behavior of us all — simple things do your part.

flwinoflwinoMember

Now the idiot wants all reports to be sent to HHS VS CDC, so they can have more accurate reporting.  BS    Now they will be able to bury data, and the media, doctors etc. will have no access.  Guess that is what he meant when he said "Covid-19 is disappearing".   Hide it under the rug!!

Wish he would resign, so we don't need to wait until 01/20 to have an adult in the room.   Disgusting

irwinirwinMember

Americans are imbued with a libertarian feeling.  Many think, as Ronald Reagan said, "Government is not the solution. Government is the problem."  Of course, careful analysis of the proper role of government is to the contrary.

The government has made major contributions in the area of safety. Seatbelts, bumpers, and other motor vehicle designs.  Air traffic control and regulations on airline manufacturers.  Drug safety and efficacy.  Yet, we have a portion of the population who says, "I have the RIGHT to drive without a seatbelt, to smoke cigarettes wherever I want, and the right NOT to wear a mask."  These are not "Rights" guaranteed by the Constitution. They are desires.  Rights are set forth in statutes, case law, executive orders, and so forth.  One person has the desire to smoke cigarettes in a restaurant. The other has the desire to be free from smoking near him in the restaurant.  These are desires. If the government passes a law saying that you cannot smoke cigarettes inside, then it establishes the right of one over the other.  The first may have the desire to smoke, but must conform his behavior to the law.

 

J jcocktostenMember

One person's "libertarian" is another person's selfish moron 

Stef and I zoomed with our friends who live in Florence yesterday  - they recently cancelled their plans to send their daughter to the states for a semester of high school and  we were discussing things - regarding how Italians generally complied with all the mandates and Americans have not and why and our conclusions were:

1. Obviously incompetence in the government (and lack of centralization especially with a head buried in the sand president)

2. Selfishness

3. Stupidity

Every day it seems increasingly more like we are actually living in the movie Idiocracy.  Not a great or even very good movie - but unfortunately we seem to be living it

 

irwinirwinMember
@jcocktosten posted:

One person's "libertarian" is another person's selfish moron 

Stef and I zoomed with our friends who live in Florence yesterday  - they recently cancelled their plans to send their daughter to the states for a semester of high school and  we were discussing things - regarding how Italians generally complied with all the mandates and Americans have not and why and our conclusions were:

1. Obviously incompetence in the government (and lack of centralization especially with a head buried in the sand president)

2. Selfishness

3. Stupidity

Every day it seems increasingly more like we are actually living in the movie Idiocracy.  Not a great or even very good movie - but unfortunately we seem to be living it

 

Part of the willingness of persons to obey the directives of the government leader has to do with the belief that the government leader knows what he is talking about and is trustworthy.  Marylanders like Governor Hogan, who has been steady, truthful, and straightforward with his press conferences and edicts and comments with regard to the virus.  He's a Republican in the blueist of states, and is viewed positively by 80% of Democrats and 75% of Republicans in a recent survey. Compliance with masks is at a high level.

On the other hand, the current Pres. of the US has been less steady, less truthful and not straightforward at all. (Is the opposite of straightforward "curvedforward" or "crookedforward"?). Anyway, there is no belief by hardly anyone that he knows what he is talking about and is trustworthy. 

He said recently, "we're going to open the schools, and we're going to open them beautifully."  What does that mean, "open the schools beautifully"??? Has anyone any idea?

 

billhikebillhikeMember
@irwin posted:

Part of the willingness of persons to obey the directives of the government leader has to do with the belief that the government leader knows what he is talking about and is trustworthy.  Marylanders like Governor Hogan, who has been steady, truthful, and straightforward with his press conferences and edicts and comments with regard to the virus.  He's a Republican in the blueist of states, and is viewed positively by 80% of Democrats and 75% of Republicans in a recent survey. Compliance with masks is at a high level.

On the other hand, the current Pres. of the US has been less steady, less truthful and not straightforward at all. (Is the opposite of straightforward "curvedforward" or "crookedforward"?). Anyway, there is no belief by hardly anyone that he knows what he is talking about and is trustworthy. 

He said recently, "we're going to open the schools, and we're going to open them beautifully."  What does that mean, "open the schools beautifully"??? Has anyone any idea?

 

Nice flowers for the hospital rooms or graves of teachers and custodians? 

J jcocktostenMember
@irwin posted:

Part of the willingness of persons to obey the directives of the government leader has to do with the belief that the government leader knows what he is talking about and is trustworthy.  Marylanders like Governor Hogan, who has been steady, truthful, and straightforward with his press conferences and edicts and comments with regard to the virus.  He's a Republican in the blueist of states, and is viewed positively by 80% of Democrats and 75% of Republicans in a recent survey. Compliance with masks is at a high level.

On the other hand, the current Pres. of the US has been less steady, less truthful and not straightforward at all. (Is the opposite of straightforward "curvedforward" or "crookedforward"?). Anyway, there is no belief by hardly anyone that he knows what he is talking about and is trustworthy. 

He said recently, "we're going to open the schools, and we're going to open them beautifully."  What does that mean, "open the schools beautifully"??? Has anyone any idea?

 

One of my partners said that a judge at a hearing this morning said she anticipated restarting jury trials in January - I asked if the jury assembly room was going to be held in the ICU

patespo1patespo1Member
@Rothko posted:

patespo1:  I'm a huge proponent for schools opening at the end of summer.  I just feel that keeping kids out for another semester would be very detrimental to them, mentally, physically, and educationally. 

The children, for the most part, are less susceptible to the virus, don't infect as much as older people, and there are ways to minimize the risks to families, teachers, school employees, etc.

The WH Press Secretary said today that "the science should Not stand in the way"  of children going back to school.  That's what the administration thinks of children in America. 

R RothkoMember

I would say that the President has just as much at risk as other parents, by sending his son, Barron, back to school.  But for some reason, that doesn't seem right...

With the virus spinning out of control in states like Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc., the schools just can't be reopened at this time.  Not without massive amounts of containment measures, testing, tracing, etc.  Which isn't going to happen.

 

The Old ManThe Old ManMember
@Rothko posted:

I would say that the President has just as much at risk as other parents, by sending his son, Barron, back to school.  But for some reason, that doesn't seem right...

With the virus spinning out of control in states like Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc., the schools just can't be reopened at this time.  Not without massive amounts of containment measures, testing, tracing, etc.  Which isn't going to happen.

 

You think the president's son attends a public school? How about a very private school where everyone is tested constantly to protect the president? And now I'm confused, weren't you quoted as saying that you thought kids should be back in school? Didn't you write this?

"The children, for the most part, are less susceptible to the virus, don't infect as much as older people, and there are ways to minimize the risks to families, teachers, school employees, etc."

So do you agree with Kayleigh Barbie that, "The science should not stand in the way" of children going back to school? Seems pretty dumb to me. In addition the way to minimize the risk, if they do go back to school, would cost hundreds of millions of dollars for schools across the country to build safe environments. I don't see any movement by the Trump Administration towards making the classroom safer.

R RothkoMember

Yes, I wrote that there are ways to minimize the risks.  Which don't appear to be considered by the Federal government at the current time.  So, while I do feel strongly that kids should go back to school, I think it needs to be done in a way to minimize the risks.  If, for example, Florida came up with a plan to open schools that actually seemed feasible, I'd be onboard with it.

But I don't think the Federal Government's concept:  "just open up the schools and consequences be damned" is the way to go.

G g-manMember
@Rothko posted:

Yes, I wrote that there are ways to minimize the risks.  Which don't appear to be considered by the Federal government at the current time.  So, while I do feel strongly that kids should go back to school, I think it needs to be done in a way to minimize the risks.  If, for example, Florida came up with a plan to open schools that actually seemed feasible, I'd be onboard with it.

But I don't think the Federal Government's concept:  "just open up the schools and consequences be damned" is the way to go.

you figure anybody with any sort of common sense/intelligence would think that ...  I'm honestly surprised at how 30% of this country acutally gets by in life.

InsightInsightMember

Much respect to Maryland Gov Larry Hogan for his insider perspective of what it has been like trying to get federal government assistance from the early beginnings of the pandemic.  The shameful lack of leadership by Putin’s Bitch is no surprise.  What was surprising is the extent that governors were briefed by federal health leaders that COVID-19 was going to be a serious threat:

In early February, we descended on Washington for the annual winter meeting of the National Governors Association. As chairman, I had worked closely with the staff for months assembling the agenda, including a private, governors-only briefing at our hotel, the Marriott Marquis, to address the growing viral threat. We brought in Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who was already widely admired but whose awesome knowledge and straight-talking style hadn't yet made him a national rock star; CDC head Robert Redfield; Ken Cuccinelli, the acting deputy secretary of homeland security; Jay Butler, the CDC's deputy director for infectious diseases; and Robert Kadlec, assistant secretary for preparedness and response at the Department of Health and Human Services.

They hit us with detailed presentations and the unfiltered truth, as well as it was known then. I remember hearing many dire claims: "This could be catastrophic. . . . The death toll could be significant. . . . Much more contagious than SARS. . . . Testing will be crucial. . . . You have to follow the science - that's where the answers lie."

It was jarring, the huge contrast between the experts' warnings and the president's public dismissals. Weren't these the people the White House was consulting about the virus? What made the briefing even more chilling was its clear, factual tone. It was a harrowing warning of an imminent national threat, and we took it seriously - at least most of us did. It was enough to convince almost all the governors that this epidemic was going to be worse than most people realized.

That any governor who sat through that back in February would now still be recklessly pushing for their states to reopen is nearly as criminal as what Putin’s Bitch and his band of idiots have perpetrated........

Last edited by Insight
flwinoflwinoMember
@Rothko posted:

Yes, I wrote that there are ways to minimize the risks.  Which don't appear to be considered by the Federal government at the current time.  So, while I do feel strongly that kids should go back to school, I think it needs to be done in a way to minimize the risks.  If, for example, Florida came up with a plan to open schools that actually seemed feasible, I'd be onboard with it.

But I don't think the Federal Government's concept:  "just open up the schools and consequences be damned" is the way to go.

At least our county has a plan.  Delay opening, and then virtual.  Too bad the gov has no idea of what is going on.   

The Old ManThe Old ManMember
@csm posted:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02...oit-study/index.html

And there’s this one that apparently shows the opposite.  

Hydroxychloroquine also doesn't help Covid-19 patients who aren't hospitalized, new study finds

"One study published this month by researchers at Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan found hydroxychloroquine increased hospitalized patients' chances of survival. However, researchers not involved with the study were critical of it, saying it wasn't of the same quality of the previous studies that showed hydroxychloroquine did not help patients."

I also wouldn't take Dr. Trump's advice to ingest household cleaning supplies.

Last edited by The Old Man
The Old ManThe Old ManMember

The Trumpy governor of OK was out in public without a mask. Now he's tested positive and all those who he came in contact with will have to worry and get tested. BTW, "Anyone who wants a test, can get a test" is still and lie after almost four months. I don't blame Napacat from slinking away from this forum; you have to be brain-dead to support this president.

C csmMember
@The Old Man posted:

Hydroxychloroquine also doesn't help Covid-19 patients who aren't hospitalized, new study finds

"One study published this month by researchers at Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan found hydroxychloroquine increased hospitalized patients' chances of survival. However, researchers not involved with the study were critical of it, saying it wasn't of the same quality of the previous studies that showed hydroxychloroquine did not help patients."

I also wouldn't take Dr. Trump's advice to ingest household cleaning supplies.

You said hospitalized or not.  It appears that hydroxy did help at least some that were hospitalized. It wasn’t helpful to prevent the disease (no medical professional actually said that I don’t think) but it did apparently help some in treatment of the infection.  

The Old ManThe Old ManMember
@csm posted:

You said hospitalized or not.  It appears that hydroxy did help at least some that were hospitalized. It wasn’t helpful to prevent the disease (no medical professional actually said that I don’t think) but it did apparently help some in treatment of the infection.  

I think you've got that a little twisted. Yes, I did say both. However that's because it's already been accepted that it does not help non-hospitalized people. So therefore I was citing this newest information, even newer than the Ford if only by a few days. It shows no real effectiveness in hospital settings.

I think most people can agree that at best the findings are nebulous and in no way deserved the major touting, over months, that they received by the snake oil salesman in the White House. I can't figure out what it was except either he owns some type of stock in a pharmacy company (as we know he has unethically not separated his personal assets and business from the presidency) or doing a friend a favor. Or just his way of pretending this pandemic doesn't exist. Who knows? But it really made no sense.

Last edited by The Old Man
G g-manMember

“We have embers and we do have flames. Florida became more flame-like, but it’s - it’s going to be under control.  I’ll be right eventually,” he said. “It’s going to disappear and I’ll be right.” - Trump 2020/7/19

Must be comforting to know that our government has a real plan .... eventually.

Last edited by g-man
R RothkoMember

RNC Convention in Jacksonville cancelled:

"I looked at my team and I said the timing for this event is not right. It's just not right," Trump said at the White House. "To have a big convention, it's not the right time....    There's nothing more important in our country than keeping our people safe," Trump said.

Sure you did.

flwinoflwinoMember
@Rothko posted:

RNC Convention in Jacksonville cancelled:

"I looked at my team and I said the timing for this event is not right. It's just not right," Trump said at the White House. "To have a big convention, it's not the right time....    There's nothing more important in our country than keeping our people safe," Trump said.

Sure you did.

Real idiot.  The republicans in JAX were all against it, the problems, cost etc.  Nice to see that they persevered

InsightInsightMember
@flwino posted:

Real idiot.  The republicans in JAX were all against it, the problems, cost etc.  Nice to see that they persevered

His first concern was that attendance for the “big convention” was going to be something more akin to what was the turnout for his rally in Tulsa, OK.  No doubt the feedback was more than a fair amount of folks RSVPing “thanks but no thanks” to the idea of traveling to the state with the worst pandemic numbers currently to be indoors with folks who weren’t going to social distance or wear masks.  

J jcocktostenMember
@Rothko posted:

My sons' college fall semesters are going to be virtual.  They are both rather upset, and I am heartbroken for them.  I blame our federal and state leadership for the massive and epic failure this has become.

Anyone else watch the Axios interview?  Appalling.

Most of the planned mixed in person and virtual hybrid programs are going to fail and be scrapped because testing is not efficient enough.  

They planned that at Georgetown Law School where my sister is on the faculty and have scrapped it for virtual only.

My Uncle is a Professor and Franklin & Marshall - and he is recording and doing all classes virtually.  Last I heard, they still had limited in person option (as of our Sunday family Zoom) but I expect that is not happening either

R RothkoMember

My two boys were going to Georgetown.  Georgetown this summer said that only the Freshmen would be allowed to come in-person, live in the dorms (One person per room) and attend on-campus classes.  Everyone else, including the Seniors, would start virtual classes only.  My younger son is going to be a Freshman, and was excited to be going up there, even with a slightly altered Freshman year format.  

My older son, who is going to be a Senior, wasn't going to be allowed to go up there, and was planning to stay at home.  We were bummed that they would be not able to be together on campus.

Last week, the University announced that they were cancelling the in-person program for the Freshman, so both of the boys are now going to be at home.  One starting his Freshman year (what a way to begin college) and one starting his Senior year (what a way to end college).

If our leaders had taken this seriously from the beginning, followed the science and medical experts, and done what should have been done, they'd both be going away to school.  A real shame, and it didn't have to be this way.

Last edited by Rothko
patespo1patespo1Member
@Rothko posted:

My two boys were going to Georgetown.  Georgetown this summer said that only the Freshmen would be allowed to come in-person, live in the dorms (One person per room) and attend on-campus classes.  Everyone else, including the Seniors, would start virtual classes only.  My younger son is going to be a Freshman, and was excited to be going up there, even with a slightly altered Freshman year format.  

My older son, who is going to be a Senior, wasn't going to be allowed to go up there, and was planning to stay at home.  We were bummed that they would be not able to be together on campus.

Last week, the University announced that they were cancelling the in-person program for the Freshman, so both of the boys are now going to be at home.  One starting his Freshman year (what a way to begin college) and one starting his Senior year (what a way to end college).

If our leaders had taken this seriously from the beginning, followed the science and medical experts, and done what should have been done, they'd both be going away to school.  A real shame, and it didn't have to be this way.

Am I correct in assuming they would refund the dorm/meal plan fees?  And also assume they are still charging full price for tuition even though they will be entirely online?  

R RothkoMember

We hadn't paid the room and board fees yet, and they won't be charging them, of course.  They actually gave a discount back to the students for last year's room and board for the couple of months that they were shut down.

They are charging a reduced tuition (I think 10% less) for the virtual-only classes.

The real problem is with financial aid.  They just sent out the financial aid offers to the students, and they've increased the amount of the student-obligations and lowered the amount of the university financial aid.  So a lot of people are really ticked off.

R RothkoMember
@csm posted:

Have such 'Rona fatigue these days, that I might actually consider it. 

I hear you.

The more interesting question is: if you had the opportunity to receive right now one of the US or European vaccines that are undergoing Phase III testing either currently or soon, would you take it?

I wouldn't consider taking part in a Phase III trial, because they are placebo-controlled, so you might not actually get the vaccine, you might get salt water.

But if someone offered you the real McCoy, would you take it now?  

It seems to me that all of the preliminary trials have been going very well, so that would appear to indicate a fairly high degree of confidence that the vaccines will be both effective and safe.  The whole point of the Phase III trial is to confirm that.  

Last edited by Rothko
The Old ManThe Old ManMember
@Rothko posted:

The more interesting question is: if you had the opportunity to receive right now one of the US or European vaccines that are undergoing Phase III testing either currently or soon, would you take it?

It seems to me that all of the preliminary trials have been going very well, so that would appear to indicate a fairly high degree of confidence that the vaccines will be both effective and safe.  The whole point of the Phase III trial is to confirm that.  

What's missing in these tests is time. It takes time for some of the ill effects of a failed, or dangerous, vaccine to show themselves. A vaccine is desperately needed but it needs to be safe and I disagree with your comment that it there is a high degree of confidence that it is yet.

R RothkoMember

Well, no one (to my knowledge) who has been injected with a US or European test vaccine has turned into the Undead or a werewolf or suffered any major catastrophic effect, so I don't think it is wrong to say that there is a fairly high degree of confidence that the vaccine will be safe and effective.  But I concur that the Phase III trial needs to be undertaken to confirm that.  I also agree with you that some rare or latent effects may not turn up until years later.  That's why many of these vaccines take many many years to test before they are released.  We just don't have that kind of time, in this case, to wait.

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The Old ManThe Old ManMember

"Well, no one (to my knowledge) who has been injected with a US or European test vaccine has turned into the Undead or a werewolf or suffered any major catastrophic effect, so I don't think it is wrong to say that there is a fairly high degree of confidence that the vaccine will be safe and effective."

This is your standard? As long as no one is turned into a zombie or a werewolf or had a major catastrophic event (whatever that means) after a few months of testing, that means it's safe? Please don't apply for a job with the NIH. I have nothing more to say, I'm kind of shocked.

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The Old ManThe Old ManMember
"Martin County Superintendent Laurie Gaylord told me she viewed re-opening her schools as a mission akin to a Navy SEAL operation. Just as the SEALs surmounted obstacles to bring Osama bin Laden to justice, so too would the Martin County School system find a way to provide parents with a meaningful choice of in-person instruction or continued distance learning."
"All in, all the time."
 
I promise to never say anything bad about the politicians in my state ever again.
Last edited by The Old Man
bmanbmanMember
@irwin posted:

Now the President and a friend who sells pillows are touting "oleandrin" as the next Covid-19 cure.  The pillow guy is on the board of directors of some company that sells the stuff.

I wonder if it mixes well with chloroxyquin (or however that is spelled).

 

Anderson Cooper just took him apart an hour or so ago.  All the guy could do was interrupt and talk over Cooper as he had no answer for his questions about how he's meeting Trump to push something with zero medical approval or evidence that it works.  

irwinirwinMember

I saw in the newspaper that this clown says the 1st amendment gives him the right to promote his phony product and to say that it cures Covid-19. Well, actually, the first amendment doesn't say that.  One is not permitted to falsely advertise a product as a cure for a disease.  We call that "fraud". 

 

pinotlvrpinotlvrMember
@irwin posted:

Now the President and a friend who sells pillows are touting "oleandrin" as the next Covid-19 cure.  The pillow guy is on the board of directors of some company that sells the stuff.

I wonder if it mixes well with chloroxyquin (or however that is spelled).

 

Gotta love this country!  The Canadians are trying to see if Cannabis can help and Americans try and peddle some unproven foreign substance.  Needless to say, I'm gonna go with Canada on this one - as even if it doesn't work, I won't have any anxiety over it 

R RothkoMember

I think we can pretty much assume that the Trump administration is going to strong-arm the FDA to approve a vaccine prior to the election.  I also think that many Americans are not going to want to take such a vaccine, for various reasons.  It may be interesting to see a Covid vaccine come on the market and there be a general lack of demand because no one wants to be a guinea pig.

R RothkoMember

Reading an article on CNN's website about the possibility of Covid and flu this fall/winter:

 

"In the Southern Hemisphere, which is just ending its winter months and flu season, several countries have reported astonishingly low flu numbers as people wear masks and social distance.

In Australia, for example, the number of lab-confirmed flu cases plummeted from 61,000 in August 2019 to 107 cases this August."

If we would all just wear masks, social distance, and get our flu shots, I don't think the flu will stand a chance this winter.  If we don't, we are in for a terrible double-whammy.

 

The Old ManThe Old ManMember

Really great opinion piece about the moral failure of Bob Woodward with a nod to the wonderful Mike Royko:

Mike Royko’s lasting lesson — and Bob Woodward’s repugnant decision

"As the legendary Sun-Times columnist told us nearly 40 years ago, a journalist has to be a human being first. Bob Woodward, in failing to reveal until now Donald Trump’s true attitude toward COVID-19, has failed that test."

R RothkoMember
@patespo1 posted:

Another Covid Rally last night for 45, this time inside.  His cult continues to not wear masks.  They continue to make excuses for him covering up the severity back in Feb.  What kind of world are we living in?  

The participants knowingly and willfully go to the Rally, assuming the risks that come with it.  I wouldn't care much if the people who went to the Rally come down with Covid.  It's when they go back to their homes and communities and spread it to innocent people - that's the problem.

If someone wants to use a tanning bed, knowing that it increases their risks of melanoma, that's their decision.  But if that person using the tanning bed could walk around afterwards and infect innocent people, in addition to themselves, with melanoma, we'd ban tanning beds really quick, I hope.

bmanbmanMember
@Rothko posted:

India looks poised to become the #1 country for Covid cases in the next month or two.  Their cases are increasing at a rate almost double to ours.

But I'm sure that there are plenty of American idiots that will try to keep us at #1.

Well there are maybe four times as many Indians as Americans. And almost none have decent health care. And most live in small apartments or houses with extended families. And and and.....

bmanbmanMember
@Rothko posted:

Yet their deaths are considerably lower than ours:

US: 6.8 million cases and 200,000 dead

India: 5.5 million cases and 89,000 dead

 

I bet their deaths are much higher. There seem to be many ways of counting. We lived there for six years and while much worked well, often much better than expected, that was rarely true in health care. Especially for those in slums and villages, which is most Indians. 

R RothkoMember

Yes, I could certainly envision that both their infections and death counts are higher than reported.  I always wondered what would happen when the virus took off in the third world countries where you have lots of people packed together, often in slum areas, without access to testing or healthcare or even facilities for self-isolating and quarantining.  

patespo1patespo1Member
@The Old Man posted:

Wow. It has happened. The great virus denying,  and mask denying, boob denying boob has the Coronavirus.

The sad part is, Does he really?  Are we sure this isn't some campaign strategy to take the spotlight off of his debacle on the debate stage, his tax scandal, Melania's tapes released yesterday, etc etc?  Rally his base to say the election 'isn't fair' because he can't campaign for a few weeks?  I no longer know what to believe from the WH anymore.  

robsutherlandrobsutherlandMember
@patespo1 posted:

The sad part is, Does he really?  Are we sure this isn't some campaign strategy to take the spotlight off of his debacle on the debate stage, his tax scandal, Melania's tapes released yesterday, etc etc?  Rally his base to say the election 'isn't fair' because he can't campaign for a few weeks?  I no longer know what to believe from the WH anymore.  

Sad to say but that's where my mind instantly went as well. And I'm not a conspiracy type of person. 

This gives him a multitude of outs and excuses and lets him sit at home and watch TV instead of campaigning while behind in the polls. 

The Old ManThe Old ManMember

'You know I know Hope very well, she is fantastic, and she has done a great job. But it is very, very hard when you are with people from the military, or from law enforcement, and they come over to you and they want to hug you and kiss you because we really have done a good job for them."

Yes fans, his first instinct was to throw the military and law enforcement under the bus. Because, yeah, it's hypocritical; like what else is new?

Last edited by The Old Man
G g-manMember
@Rothko posted:

So they've put the President on Regeneron, the antibody cocktail.  It sounds to me like he's got more than simple "mild symptoms".  

“In addition to the polyclonal antibodies, the President has been taking zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin and a daily aspirin,” Conley said in a White House memo Friday afternoon, describing Trump as “fatigued but in good spirits.”

Conley said Trump received an 8-gram dose of Regeneron’s polyclonal antibody cocktail via “infusion without incident.”

 

weirdly, they didnt put him on bleach and hydroxychloroquine.

 

as w the judge event

 

Last edited by g-man
irwinirwinMember

You gather a bunch of people close together without masks.  You wind up with the President, the First lady, Senators Lee and Tillis, the head guy at Notre Dame Law School, Kelly Ann Conway, 3 journalists, and a partridge in a pear tree, all infected with the virus.   Judge Barrett apparently had the virus a few months ago and is alleged to be negative at the present time.

These people are truly morons (except I suppose the journalists).  I would bet that another 10-15 people at that event are positive.

bmanbmanMember
@mneeley490 posted:

I think the worst thing that could happen here is that he comes out of it with a mild case, and then goes on to tell the country that it's not a big deal, it's just like the flu. 

The worst thing that could happen is that he dies before the election, Pence in nominated by Republicans in his place and loses to Biden after months of legal wrangling, but meanwhile the state legislatures (largely Republican including in some key swing states) exercise their constitutional power to direct the state electors to elect Pence, who is inaugurated on schedule before the legal proceedings run their course.  Perhaps after a decision of the 6-3 conservative Supreme Court.  If I understand correctly something by a scholar in these matters that I read today.

The Old ManThe Old ManMember
@flwino posted:

RE NFL   Normally if you have a player out hurt, you play the game.  Maybe they should play the game with all the folks that test negative, and let the sport go on.  This prompted by the postponement of the Chiefs game

Except another player's injury does not usually cause another player to become injured. Also in this case the "injury" is often hidden before the other players can also become "injured."

Last edited by The Old Man
irwinirwinMember

In some states, if someone knows, or has reason to know, that he has a communicable disease, such as AIDS, genital herpes, or something else (Covid-19), and the person comes in inappropriate contact with another person without telling that person that he has the communicable disease, he could be found guilty of the crime of assault, and in many states, a person infected by this first person could sue for damages.

Just sayin'

G g-manMember
@irwin posted:

In some states, if someone knows, or has reason to know, that he has a communicable disease, such as AIDS, genital herpes, or something else (Covid-19), and the person comes in inappropriate contact with another person without telling that person that he has the communicable disease, he could be found guilty of the crime of assault, and in many states, a person infected by this first person could sue for damages.

Just sayin'

Yea. But are you allowed to sue a branch of govt without the governments permission?