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I just read this thread in one shot from beginning till now.  Sobering to see the progression of the pandemic, as well as the usual knuckleheads parroting the party line until reality finally, finally, finally became too much to ignore/poo poo.

For those who haven’t seen this, it’s from the Financial Times (definitely NOT a left-leaning outfit).  The graphs of how things have progressed in the US compared to other countries are extremely eye-opening.  

https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest

Be safe, everyone!

vint posted:

If you're feeling trapped at home, here's a fun list of ways to live your best (quarantined) life, courtesy of the folks at Morning Brew:

https://www.morningbrew.com/da..._source=morning_brew

I'm watching the sea otter cam as I type this.  

The video call advice is good. I had one the other day with there members of my team and fI’ve people from the client team. The four female members of the client team carefully positioned their laptops to give a limited and non-distracting view of their home. The lone male on their team did the call from his bedroom office with his unmade bed in the background. TMI, dude.

wineismylife posted:

You might know four.  PURPLE and I have several of the symptoms.  We've been in self quarantine working from home and haven't bothered to get tested as the symptoms have been light so far and we haven't experienced difficulty breathing which is the final get the hell to the hospital now symptom.

Oh no - hopefully they stay light - hoping for the best for you guys

Thanks.  We very well may not have it.  It almost feels like Spring allergies or a cold or mild flu or such.  Barely notable so far.  It's just the number of symptoms match up so well and timing is about perfect as well it makes me suspicious.  We may never know either.  Whatever this is it seems to be nearing it's end at least for us.

I am a licensed physician and I have been suffering from coronavirus symptoms for the past 9 days.  Only today do I feel like I've  turned the corner and starting to recover.  I likely caught it from my daughter whose symptoms preceded mine by 4 days.

I have not been tested for the virus because My hospital is only testing inpatients at this point.  I did not have a high fever and therefore, did not meet CDC criteria for testing by the dept of health, and I refuse to wait on hours long lines at drive through testing centers.  Ironically, I contacted the state dept. of health asking about priority testing for healthcare workers and was told there is no such testing in place.  Regardless, there is no question that I have the virus based on my years of medical training and experience. I get an annual flu vaccine and this was unlike any flu I've ever had.

A few points to be made. The virus is far more prevalent than is being reported.  Maybe it hasn't hit your neck of the woods but it spread like wildfire in mine- the NY metro area.  When all is said and done, a significant percentage of the population will have been exposed to this virus but won't be counted in the statistics.  Many people like myself and and my daughter will have had it and not been tested. 2 of the 11 doctors in my practice currently have the virus. 

The response to the virus is not overblown.   This virus is extremely contagious and far deadlier than influenza. Shutdowns and quarantines are absolutely necessary or the the healthcare system will crumble.  There simply won't be enough resources to handle the volume, even if none of the healthcare workers were infected.  The morons who refuse to socially isolate themselves ( like the spring breakers), may not kill themselves, but they may be killing their parents or grandparents.

I empirically took the hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin "cocktail" out of fear of ending up on a ventilator.  As I'm typing this, my wife just informed me that her friend's 56 year old husband was just intubated in the ICU.  The cocktail is not a miracle drug, and did not stop the progression of my symptoms, but at least  now I'm confident that I won't need to be hospitalized.  The drug combo is not for everyone.  Those with a certain cardiac arrhythmia ( prolonged QT interval) are at risk for sudden death from the "cocktail".  Hydrochloroquine is on backorder at my local Walgreens and won't be back in stock,until the end of April.

Lastly, those of you making this a political issue nauseate me. This is not about politics and you can't blame Trump for the lack of testing capabilities.  This has everything to do with government beaurocracy and red tape, and that the government simply isn't capable,of doing anything quickly.   I don't agree with a lot of the things coming out of Trump's mouth or the way he says it,  but I do believe the intent is there to help the American people.  When I perform a procedure on someone, I don't ask if the are democrat or republican, whether they are in this country legally or whether they have insurance.  I treat everyone the same.  Rather than pointing fingers of blame or criticism, how about thinking of ways you can help us healthcare workers fight this disease.

winedrmike posted:

 

Lastly, those of you making this a political issue nauseate me. This is not about politics and you can't blame Trump for the lack of testing capabilities.  This has everything to do with government beaurocracy and red tape, and that the government simply isn't capable,of doing anything quickly.   I don't agree with a lot of the things coming out of Trump's mouth or the way he says it,  but I do believe the intent is there to help the American people.  When I perform a procedure on someone, I don't ask if the are democrat or republican, whether they are in this country legally or whether they have insurance.  I treat everyone the same.  Rather than pointing fingers of blame or criticism, how about thinking of ways you can help us healthcare workers fight this disease.

For weeks the president downplayed the seriousness of this. "We have 15 cases that will soon be be close to zero." This is one of at least two dozen lies, untruths and just stupid things that have come out of the president's mouths since this began. Yes, you can say he's not to blame for the delays and shortages that the US is experiencing , but he, and Fox State News, sure didn't help. This is not "making this a political issue", it's a statement of facts.

"This has everything to do with government beaurocracy and red tape, and that the government simply isn't capable,of doing anything quickly."

Worn out Republican canard that's been worn out for decades. Is only the federal government that can mass great resources during this time of need. If not to help unsure the safety of its citizens during a natural disaster then what?

Last edited by The Old Man

Get totally well soon, Mike.  I am sure that there are tons of people who have the virus and don't know because they are asymptomatic, and others whose symptoms are quite mild. 

You are certainly correct that it isn't a Democratic or Republican issue. It is a health issue. It is a listen to the experts issue.  Our Republican Governor, Larry Hogan, here in Maryland is on top of this and working hard with the experts from Johns Hopkins, the Univ. of MD, and NIH, three highly competent health institutions in our state.  The Governor, who has survived lymphoma which he got early in his first term, is a terrific leader. 

The Old Man posted:
winedrmike posted:

 

Lastly, those of you making this a political issue nauseate me. This is not about politics and you can't blame Trump for the lack of testing capabilities.  This has everything to do with government beaurocracy and red tape, and that the government simply isn't capable,of doing anything quickly.   I don't agree with a lot of the things coming out of Trump's mouth or the way he says it,  but I do believe the intent is there to help the American people.  When I perform a procedure on someone, I don't ask if the are democrat or republican, whether they are in this country legally or whether they have insurance.  I treat everyone the same.  Rather than pointing fingers of blame or criticism, how about thinking of ways you can help us healthcare workers fight this disease.

For weeks the president downplayed the seriousness of this. "We have 15 cases that will soon be be close to zero." This is one of at least two dozen lies, untruths and just stupid things that have come out of the president's mouths since this began. Yes, you can say he's not to blame for the delays and shortages that the US is experiencing , but he, and Fox State News, sure didn't help. This is not "making this a political issue", it's a statement of facts.

"This has everything to do with government beaurocracy and red tape, and that the government simply isn't capable,of doing anything quickly."

Worn out Republican talking point that has no place during this time when our government needs to do its job and help its citizens.

Geez man.  We get it.  It's all because of Trump, the Republicans, and Fox News.  We heard you the first million times.  It's like Festivus every day with you and your airing of grievances. Maybe you can just reply with "ibid" and we can go on with our day.  

Anyway, thanks Mike and WIML for sharing your first hand experiences.  Definitely a scary situation and wishing you both speedy recoveries. 

The Old Man posted:
winedrmike posted:

 

Lastly, those of you making this a political issue nauseate me. This is not about politics and you can't blame Trump for the lack of testing capabilities.  This has everything to do with government beaurocracy and red tape, and that the government simply isn't capable,of doing anything quickly.   I don't agree with a lot of the things coming out of Trump's mouth or the way he says it,  but I do believe the intent is there to help the American people.  When I perform a procedure on someone, I don't ask if the are democrat or republican, whether they are in this country legally or whether they have insurance.  I treat everyone the same.  Rather than pointing fingers of blame or criticism, how about thinking of ways you can help us healthcare workers fight this disease.

For weeks the president downplayed the seriousness of this. "We have 15 cases that will soon be be close to zero." This is one of at least two dozen lies, untruths and just stupid things that have come out of the president's mouths since this began. Yes, you can say he's not to blame for the delays and shortages that the US is experiencing , but he, and Fox State News, sure didn't help. This is not "making this a political issue", it's a statement of facts.

"This has everything to do with government beaurocracy and red tape, and that the government simply isn't capable,of doing anything quickly."

Worn out Republican canard that's been worn out for decades. Is only the federal government that can mass great resources during this time of need. If not to help unsure the safety of its citizens during a natural disaster then what?

The Old Man,

You just had a doctor plead and tell you this is not a political issue and you turn around and immediately make it one.  You are tiring and trying at the same time.  Go do something else rather than posting  negative comments incessantly.  

And by the way...Trump is tight to want to get the country moving again.

Best of luck winedrmike.  

napacat posted:

The Old Man,

You just had a doctor plead and tell you this is not a political issue and you turn around and immediately make it one.

Except the good doctor was perhaps a little disingenuous in his plea:

"This is not about politics and you can't blame Trump for the lack of testing capabilities." -- Well yeah, you kind of can. He is making it political by defending your favorite cult leader (and I'm guessing his too.)

"This has everything to do with government beaurocracy and red tape, and that the government simply isn't capable,of doing anything quickly." -- This is obviously a political statement with a clearly T/Republican view.

"I don't agree with a lot of the things coming out of Trump's mouth or the way he says it, but I  believe the intent is there to help the American people." -- Political statement

"And by the way...Trump is tight (sic) to want to get the country moving again."

Yes, please all gentiles fill the pews on Easter as the stable genius has ordained. Don't follow the scientists but heed the words of the self-proclaimed "chosen" one. What harm can there be? His mighty staff will protect you from pestilence and disease. Passover's a few days before Easter and you can bet we won't be having a live family seder.

Last edited by The Old Man

I found my account!

As someone living in what can be called the Epicenter of the CV19 outbreak in the US.  Nothing that trump says has been helping any of my neighbors, and certainly not me cope with this situation.

I've been following this since the end of Dec. Asia is the market I've been researching since that time, 

It's not politics.  It's about proper leadership.  There are many countries that have already shown what is required at the Federal level, and not individual states.  Why else would I be paying federal taxes?  I don't care about the federal govt giving me guidance.  I need the federal government to procure necessary medical supplies and properly distribute need amongst the various states.  

Very simply, it's the United States of America.  It's not 48 states with 2 stragglers that happen to be in America.  The fact that Trump thinks each individual state should figure out how to individually secure needed medical supplies is just asinine.   I can say though, if any state descends into the situation that us in NY have, where you worry about what's getting stocked on the shelves,  you worry about one of your friends having an ambulance in front of their house being sent to one of the many overcrowded NY hospitals, seeing refrigerated body trucks lined right outside in empty parking lots, I assure you politics is one of the very last things on many other NYers minds.

I will half jokingly say that the rest of you poorer states can only wish you had as much money as California/NY/Texas, good luck bidding on these necessary medical supplies against NY, CA, Texas.

Old Man- I read through this thread and noticed that more of the posts were politically motivated rather than addressing the reality of the pandemic, and it disturbed me.  You see, 3 days ago, when I febrile, coughing, congested, nauseous, fatigued and lethargic, I could not have have given a rats ass about Trumps lies. I instead put a mask on my wife and showed her how to pay monthly bills online and where I kept the life insurance paperwork.  Fortunately, I'm feeling better,  but the ICU in my hospital looks like a war zone filled with guys my age, WITH LITTLE OR NO PREEXISTING MEDICAL CONDITIONS. 

My political leanings aren't important. My intention was to bring this discussion back to the center with sobering reality, and not make it all about politics. We get it, you hate the commander in chief.  He's not my first choice either, but he's what we've got right now. Fear not, if you were to present to my hospital's ER, and I needed to provide service to you, you would get the same top quality service as the Republicans, if not better.

Unfortunately - there are political elements to this crisis.  I don't think criticizing leaders for making false statements and encouraging behavior which endangers lives is politicizing anything.

Can we criticize the LT. Governor of Texas for suggesting that older folks should happily put themselves at risk of dying to bolster the economy?  The statement was morally reprehensible and calling it so is not a political issue but a moral one.  Has nothing to do that I likely disagree with the guy on every single political issue

jcocktosten posted:

Unfortunately - there are political elements to this crisis.  I don't think criticizing leaders for making false statements and encouraging behavior which endangers lives is politicizing anything.

Can we criticize the LT. Governor of Texas for suggesting that older folks should happily put themselves at risk of dying to bolster the economy?  The statement was morally reprehensible and calling it so is not a political issue but a moral one.  Has nothing to do that I likely disagree with the guy on every single political issue

I don't disagree. I constantly wish that Trump would shut his mouth and turn off his twitter. I was squirming on my sofa just like Dr Fauci when I heard Trump talk about hydroxychloroquine being the miracle drug- based on a single small non randomized trial from France. As expected, it caused an immediate run on the pharmacies.  

Right now, my focus is focus is my health and the health of my family.  As it stands, I won't be able to go back to the hospital for another 2 weeks to ensure that i am not still contagious,  but I can work by telemedicine. Let's post some good news stories of people recovering from the virus.

For some people everything revolves around politics.

I hope you continue to recover quickly Mike.

Even though the drug package didn't seem effective for you, I hope it is effective overall in the treatment for others.  Hopefully we will have better knowledge about this and other issues regarding the virus in the next week.  I believe we have performed about 400,000 tests, that should help provide more information.

Dr Mike, Purple, WIML, wishing you all a full and rapid recovery. 

I think we all have a pretty good grasp of how and where this virus has spread. Was the current situation in the USA avoidable? If so, how? If not, why not? 

These questions are going to be debated for years, probably without any definitive resolution. Politics will have to be part of the debate. 

"I read through this thread and noticed that more of the posts were politically motivated rather than addressing the reality of the pandemic, and it disturbed me."

I have read no posts that are politically motivated. Most of them did point out how delay, caused by the president's refusal to accepted the facts made the situation worse. That called reality.

"We get it, you hate the commander in chief."

You don't know me; I don't hate anyone. I do hate almost everything he's done as president and continues to do to our country. 

"Fear not, if you were to present to my hospital's ER, and I needed to provide service to you, you would get the same top quality service as the Republicans, if not better."

What a guy.

seaquam posted:

I think we all have a pretty good grasp of how and where this virus has spread. Was the current situation in the USA avoidable? If so, how? If not, why not? 

Was it totally avoidable? No. Would it have made a difference if the most powerful man in the world didn't just kind of wish away it for weeks? "Like a miracle it will be gone." I say yes.

Last edited by The Old Man
azwiese posted:

"Geez man.  We get it.  It's ALL BECAUSE [emphasis mine] of Trump, the Republicans, and Fox News."

Never said anything like this. I did say they made it worse by downplaying it for weeks.

"We heard you the first million times.  It's like Festivus every day with you and your airing of grievances. Maybe you can just reply with "ibid" and we can go on with our day."

I'm guessing mike didn't. I also can't top the president when it comes to his almost daily airing of grievances while addressing a crisis. I guess the real question is, why do you go on and keep reading my posts if they bother you so much? As I've pointed out before, my avatar is quite easy to spot. it's even a black and white photo that stands out even more. It's like those that complain about something on television who apparently forget they have a remote control.

 

Last edited by The Old Man
thistlintom posted:

I believe we have performed about 400,000 tests, that should help provide more information.

I hope Fox News told you that this is about the same number that South Korea has performed in a country of 50 million compared to 327 million in the US. They, and many other countries, were lucky to have leaders who took this seriously right from the start.

Last edited by The Old Man
Rothko posted:

Well, we are now the #1 country in the world with coronavirus.

I hate being right...

Amazing that NY is half the cases.  I think part of the reason we are number one is that we have the most tests and that you can't trust China comments for anything.  It appears that the forecasts of cases and deaths by models are overestimated from comments by the experts, but we shall see.

thistlintom posted:

Amazing that NY is half the cases.  I think part of the reason we are number one is that we have the most tests...

Except we don't. As I already pointed out for example South Korea has enough tests for around 8% of the population. In the US it's closer to 1.2%. The number is not relevant, the percentage of the population is the key.

It's better to look at this from %

Wuhan has a population of 11 million, with as reported by china, 68k cases or an infection population % of .006%

NYC and surrounding areas like Nassau County, Westchester has a population of roughly 11 million also.

so assuming china's numbers are accurate, we would expect the NY metro region to show 68,000 cases, ~ 1000 deaths (this is out of my ass because i'm assuming the NY healthcare system is much better than the Wuhan emergency hospital put up in 2  weeks kind of care)

As with testing, NY's government has been stating they're running 7000 tests a day but they're running out of the reagent to continue to test at that pace, so alot of folks are still not being tested unless they get to the hospital with symptoms.

but assuming China is lying about infected, but telling the truth on the deaths,

There might be potentially 320,000 infected individuals in NY now.

If China's lying about both, I'm not a religious man, but god help us.

winedrmike posted:

... I was squirming on my sofa just like Dr Fauci when I heard Trump talk about hydroxychloroquine being the miracle drug- based on a single small non randomized trial from France. As expected, it caused an immediate run on the pharmacies.

It also caused you, a physician, to take the drug yourself, in the absence of a positive test.  I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same thing myself.  Wishing you and everyone a full recovery.

The President has proposed a county by county analysis of the incidence of the virus, so that some counties can have more restrictive rules as to "social distancing" and so forth, while other counties can have less harsh restrictions. 

This is a great idea.  I think all we need to do to make it work is to have walls erected around all of the counties in the country.  Don't worry about the cost. Mexico will pay for the walls.

 

javachip posted:
winedrmike posted:

... I was squirming on my sofa just like Dr Fauci when I heard Trump talk about hydroxychloroquine being the miracle drug- based on a single small non randomized trial from France. As expected, it caused an immediate run on the pharmacies.

It also caused you, a physician, to take the drug yourself, in the absence of a positive test.  I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same thing myself.  Wishing you and everyone a full recovery.

That is correct.  It was a conflict between my anxiety over becoming critically ill versus my scientific rational side.  Anxiety won.

 

Update- Finally got tested, but the result is almost moot at this point.  Up to 5 days to get results.  Thank you all for the well wishes.  

As of today, 25% of the patients in my primary hospital are COVID or suspected COVID.

Last edited by winedrmike
thistlintom posted:

Coachella has been postponed.

In regards to the mortality rate, we don't have great information yet.  The best right now is probably from South Korea which has decent medical care and has significant testing.  The mortality rate (deaths compared to diagnosed cases ) is 0.6%.  My guess is the % compared to contracted cases is significantly lower and closer to the regular flu, as many people may have contracted the virus and not reported it or had it diagnosed.

Also of note, the average age of people dying in the US from the virus is 80 years old.

I understand being cautious, but I do think that there has been a big overreaction to the situation.

Curious - do you think it’s serious yet?

I'm on another forum where a person wrote three weeks ago, "When thousands of healthy young people are dying in every state then called a pandemic." This was about the time WHO declared it a pandemic. He's been asked about it but always dodges and weaves. It is very rare for people on the internet to admit they're wrong and of course he won't.

The Old Man posted:

I'm on another forum where a person wrote three weeks ago, "When thousands of healthy young people are dying in every state then called a pandemic." This was about the time WHO declared it a pandemic. He's been asked about it but always dodges and weaves. It is very rare for people on the internet to admit they're wrong and of course he won't.

Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by me in this forum are only my opinions. They are not pronouncements from God. I apologize if you feel your parade has been rained upon.

Maybe the opinion he expressed in that forum was only his opinion, and not a pronouncement from God.

Seems as though his understanding of meteorology is pretty similar to yours.   😀

Last edited by seaquam
seaquam posted:
The Old Man posted:

I'm on another forum where a person wrote three weeks ago, "When thousands of healthy young people are dying in every state then called a pandemic." This was about the time WHO declared it a pandemic. He's been asked about it but always dodges and weaves. It is very rare for people on the internet to admit they're wrong and of course he won't.

Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by me in this forum are only my opinions. They are not pronouncements from God. I apologize if you feel your parade has been rained upon.

Maybe the opinion he expressed in that forum was only his opinion, and not a pronouncement from God.

Seems as though his understanding of meteorology is pretty similar to yours.   😀

It is not the opinion that's interesting. It's the implication behind it. What this person is saying, and has never denied, is that millions of older people could die but it would not meet his criteria of a pandemic. It's quite a shocking sentiment and shows an almost unfathomable, disturbing thinking process.

winedrmike posted:

Now that I'm recovering from the virus my senses are off.  Opened a bottle of 2013 Sullivan Cabernet and 2016 Stags Leap petite Syrah, and I could not smell either one. Taste buds are also off as well.  Hopefully this is only short term.  Damn Virus! 

I heard on the evening news that the loss of smell and taste were previously unreported symptoms of the virus. They said that both do eventually come back. 

Last edited by mneeley490

I saw a neighbor wiping down her groceries and have read in another wine forum about being careful touching the wine shipments.  I’m sorry but that’s a bit   irrational or bordering on neurosis.   I wash my hands after going to the bathroom, picking up after pets, and before I sit down to eat.  WTF are people thinking.

doubled posted:

I saw a neighbor wiping down her groceries and have read in another wine forum about being careful touching the wine shipments.  I’m sorry but that’s a bit   irrational or bordering on neurosis.   I wash my hands after going to the bathroom, picking up after pets, and before I sit down to eat.  WTF are people thinking.

I think receiving groceries and deliveries do have to be received with some special handling. I received them wearing rubber gloves I remove the bags and dispose of them outside. I try to actually remove a lot of the boxes that stuff comes in like cereal, frozen food Etc. I receive packages from Amazon in the same manner. I think I posted earlier about breaking the chain of possible contamination.

A doctor said yesterday to think that when a person sneezes or coughs glitter sprays out of their orifices. Think how hard it is to get rid of glitter. It's the same thing with a virus, even harder since you can't see it.

As for washing your hands I hope you are following the CDC guideline and are not just doing it after going potty.

Last edited by The Old Man

I dunno TOM.  Breaking the chain is for people to stay home.  Workers who handle food or merchandise should wear gloves.  People who cough or wipe their fluids on things purposely are a-holes.  Trying to disinfect everything what other people touched is taking it too far.  The chances of a .0000001% contraction doesn't rationalize it for me.

use paper bags, wash your hands right when you get home, wash your hand after you pack it all away and wash your food before you cook it.

will i lay out my groceries all over my table so i can individually disinfect?  No

Will i try not to move stuff from outside through out the house?  Yes

And just remember to wash your hands more often.

thistlintom posted:

It appears that the forecasts of cases and deaths by models are overestimated from comments by the experts, but we shall see.

Based on finding a middle ground between best and worst case scenarios, Dr Fauci is estimating 100K to 200K deaths in the US by the time COVID-19 ceases to be a threat.  Even Putin’s Bitch appears to be seeing the grim reality this pandemic presents.

I was hoping this wouldn’t be worse than H1N1.  All indications from family and friends in the healthcare industry is that this will be significantly worse.  

I've washed my hands quite often. In fact, so often that the notes I put on my pinky to help me pass an 8th grade exam are starting to show.

Seriously, if you wear gloves to receive packages, because you don't want to touch the packaging, then you have to toss the gloves each time you do this.  We were grocery shopping yesterday. Wiped the handle of the cart before taking it inside. My wife prefers that she push the cart.  I tried to keep my hands in my pockets, except when selecting a food item for the cart, and then, when we got home, we washed our hands before putting stuff away.

As to washing food, I suppose nearly everyone washes an apple before eating it. And, you eat the skin of the apple.  Do you wash an orange or a banana (where you don't eat the skin)?  You should.  Who know who touched those fruits?  I only have known one person who washes a banana before peeling it, and that is my father-in-law, who is 97.  Clearly his longevity is directly due to his fruity fastidiousness.

I'm getting everything delivered to the house at this point.  I haven't left my house to go any farther than my mailbox.  Not sure my car still starts it has been so long since I've been in it.  Guess I should check.

If I get a delivery other than groceries I wipe down the package outside on the front porch with a paper towel soaked in disinfectant.  Groceries however I grab the plastic bags they are always delivered in and bring them to the kitchen table and remove the products inside and put them away and throw away the plastic bags and disinfect the table top where they sat.  Trash goes outside regularly and frequently.  In short, I am not disinfecting every single item that comes through the front door but I am being as cautious as I can within reason.

Oh yeah, I wash my hands thoroughly after touching anything from outside the house.  I wash my hands frequently throughout the day.  Always have, particularly when preparing meals.  I wash several times during meal preparation.

Last edited by wineismylife

If we could ever get around to producing a blood serum/antibody test in this country, we could test people to see if they have coronavirus antibodies in their blood, meaning they've already been exposed and have beaten off the virus.  Those people could then be issued an ID card and allowed to go back out into the economy (restaurants, theaters, sports events, etc.) while those that don't have the antibodies could continue to self-isolate and keep social distancing.

Reporters are saying that it appears the gravity of the situation has finally sunk into Trump's head. He would increase his chance of reelection if he stopped the daily clown show he puts on everyday--hawking products, threatening governors and insulting reporters--especially his favorite target--women, and just stuck to the facts. Better, for him and the country, would be if he'd just get off the stage.

The Old Man posted:

Reporters are saying that it appears the gravity of the situation has finally sunk into Trump's head. He would increase his chance of reelection if he stopped the daily clown show he puts on everyday--hawking products, threatening governors and insulting reporters--especially his favorite target--women, and just stuck to the facts. Better, for him and the country, would be if he'd just get off the stage.

That must be the reason why every picture I see of him now, he's dejected, looking down, arms at his sides, and shoulders slumped. Barring the miracle he was looking for, he's going to lose the next election and he now knows it.

If NY were a country, we'd be #4 on the global list.  So no, I dont think someone's doing "the best job"

We are still looking for medical suppliles.  I have family members in the profession and they're saying the lack of PPEs is alarming.  So yea, trump can feel free to investigate why some hospitals in NY need a one time order of 300,000 DISPOSABLE masks.  

irwin posted:
The Old Man posted:

Excellent article from the LA Times on the harm that the president's claims for chloroquine has done. I was not aware that that infamous promoter of quackery, Dr. Oz was involved:

The rotten science behind Trump’s chloroquine claims 

I was at a convention once and heard a cardiologist give a speech. He said something like this: When Dr. Oz makes a recommendation, run the other way.

 

The John Oliver take down of Dr Oz is one of my favorite episodes of his. I loathe the man.

Is it any surprise that Trumpublican governors have been slow to take action? From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the Governor finally is telling people to say home, though not until Friday. Here he is in all his glory: "'He said his decision was triggered by 'game-changing' new projections on the disease’s spread in Georgia. He also said he was informed of new data that this virus 'is now transmitting before people see signs. Those individuals could have been infecting people before they ever felt symptoms', he said. 'We didn’t know that until the last 24 hours.'”

"What a maroon" -- Bugs Bunny

Last edited by The Old Man

Big story today from the LA Times:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tru...early-233508840.html

Says that Pres. Trump ended a program that could have helped identify the virus early, etc.  But, it's hard for me to believe that he did this spontaneously or on his own. He's not the kind of guy who looks at the budget himself, line by line, and figures out where to cut.  The questions for me are a) who in the administration at the time recommended to the President that the program be cut and b) who opposed it? Did any Democrats or others in Congress or in the Senate who serve on science and health committees notice and complain?

For me: cardboard boxes are left in the foyer for 4+ days prior to opening, and then the contents are either disinfected or left another week. Groceries (all delivered) are brought to the outdoor patio where they are each thoroughly  disinfected before entering the apartment. I only leave home for 3 reasons: to go to the mailbox (no more than twice per week) where mail is summarily thrown out outside and little packages are taken inside and left at the door for at least 4 days. And also to go to my Amazon locker at my community’s clubhouse. I wear disposable gloves, a mask, and go in the middle of the night. Again, see how I treat packages. And to go to my car for “supplies” which are still in it such as boxed beets, soda, olive oil, and disinfectant.  And which are treated as any other package.  Shoes come off immediately upon entry and remain at the door. Gloves are removed upon entry. I wash my hands using a disinfectant cloth to pump the soap (the water is already running.)  All clothing is removed and goes into a special pile not to be touched for 4 says. (And then washed twice on the hottest setting with extra soap.)  The bathroom is disinfected, my hands are rewashed, then I shower. Because I’m sticking to this routine, I’m not washing my hands more than 4 or 5 times per day, otherwise. And I’m ok with touching my face as I’m reasonably confident I’m keeping most of the germs away. 

Last edited by winetarelli
The Old Man posted:

We are about to become a mask wearing nation. You will be ostracized if you aren't wearing one, even outside. There is no way people will be allowed into stadiums, amusement parks, theaters,etc. without one. You certainly will not get into Costco or grocery stores without one.

Yup tell me to wear one.  But after you can supply me one

irwin posted:

Big story today from the LA Times:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tru...early-233508840.html

Says that Pres. Trump ended a program that could have helped identify the virus early, etc.  But, it's hard for me to believe that he did this spontaneously or on his own. He's not the kind of guy who looks at the budget himself, line by line, and figures out where to cut.  The questions for me are a) who in the administration at the time recommended to the President that the program be cut and b) who opposed it? Did any Democrats or others in Congress or in the Senate who serve on science and health committees notice and complain?

Trump was elected to "drain the swamp." This is just of another version of Reagan's anti-government stance. From his inaugural address, "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem. Also this infamous line, "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help." This attitude has driven the Republican agenda since and the chickens have come home to roost.

Now off course the current president doesn't have the brains to review the budget and make decisions, but besides his agreement with Reagan's philosophy (and the former Republican party's general agenda) he has one more mission: Destroy everything Obama has done. His sycophants and minions know this and everyday do whatever they can to make the Great Leader happy. Such as take the teeth out of the EPA and FDA. 

So I'm not sure what the Democrats could have done and perhaps they didn't really notice this while trying to tamp down the daily horrors that have come out of the WH in the last three and a half years. So it was: science program (science bad) Obama program (Obama bad) a government program that didn't help the 1% (government bad, however not when it serves the rich.)

The chickens have come home to roost indeed.

irwin posted:

Around 2750 cases in Maryland, with 42 deaths.  So the death rate here is between 1 and 2%.

 

People are only counted as "cases" if they have a positive test.  Currently, most people in the US only get tested if they have symptoms and seek medical attention.  But many/most infected people have no symptoms or only mild symptoms, and do not get tested.  Thus, the true mortality rate is estimated to be well below 1% for all COVID-19 infections.

How so?  A death must have a positive test to count as a COVID-19 death.  Almost everyone with COVID-19-like illness (including everyone with influenza and viral pneumonia) who dies in the US, will get a COVID-19 test.  The only way a COVID-19 death will not be counted as such, is if the test is repeatedly false negative.

I am confident of one thing:  I will not run out of wine during this ordeal, unless my off-site storage locker is deemed non-essential and shuts down. 

What I was trying to imply is that there are people who have the virus but don’t show symptoms.  Meanwhile they pass it on to more people who pass it to more people.  Eventually the infected show symptoms and some die.  While the percentages may intimately be less than 1% after the finally tally is made, the actual number who die will be large.  This excludes the collateral damage to the healthcare system, human psyche (e.g., reluctance to get in a plane, cruise ship, etc.), and other areas.

Last edited by doubled

.66% sounds like pretty good odds, until you take that as a percentage of the US population (330,000,000) and that leaves you with 2.1 million dead Americans.  That assumes, of course, that we are all going to get it before a vaccine comes out in 18 months.  The current "stay at home" orders are designed to reduce the number of people infected right now, but who knows how many resurgences we will see over the next year and a half.

 

javachip posted:

How so?  A death must have a positive test to count as a COVID-19 death.  Almost everyone with COVID-19-like illness (including everyone with influenza and viral pneumonia) who dies in the US, will get a COVID-19 test.  The only way a COVID-19 death will not be counted as such, is if the test is repeatedly false negative.

I am confident of one thing:  I will not run out of wine during this ordeal, unless my off-site storage locker is deemed non-essential and shuts down. 

Are you not supposed to stay home?  So should locker folks.  I'll pick up for you

mneeley490 posted:
winedrmike posted:

Now that I'm recovering from the virus my senses are off.  Opened a bottle of 2013 Sullivan Cabernet and 2016 Stags Leap petite Syrah, and I could not smell either one. Taste buds are also off as well.  Hopefully this is only short term.  Damn Virus! 

I heard on the evening news that the loss of smell and taste were previously unreported symptoms of the virus. They said that both do eventually come back. 

Thise sounds like a time to drink your Bret monsters!

Went for daily run today- instead of running to the beach like usual as I was running a little late and with Easter thought it might be more crowded than usual - decided to run in the other direction to the Harbor and then Duval Street (our downtown - ha ha) - in a span of 10 blocks from a distance I saw 4 people that I know - no stopping or talking - just hellos from a distance - but was nice to see people I know in person

ProSys posted:

Weird that posts made back in March by some forumites who registered then are just now showing up in this thread.........

Posts by new members go into quarantine, as do posts by certain longtime members who have a history of inflammatory posts, until they can be reviewed by WS. Or something like that. 

Rothko posted:

I've never seen so many people biking, walking or running around here.  At first I thought that that meant that more people were getting outside and getting fit, but I don't think so.  I guess that with gyms, beaches and parks closed, the same amount of people are exercising, just on the roads.

I for one am running because I can't play tennis (and need to make up for the extra carb-eating and drinking)

Rothko posted:

I've never seen so many people biking, walking or running around here.  At first I thought that that meant that more people were getting outside and getting fit, but I don't think so.  I guess that with gyms, beaches and parks closed, the same amount of people are exercising, just on the roads.

I think you are right generally.  We can't go to the gym, so days we don't play golf we are taking a walk.  There may be some people that are walking that normally don't do so just to get out of the house.

Ray, the amount of people I see out walking/jogging/riding in my neighborhood has at least tripled. I walk/run my dog for about an hour every night and I've met a ton of new people. From afar of course.

I had lost about 30 lbs on a low carb diet. Oh man have things changed. My drinking has at least doubled and I eat pizza no less than twice a week. At least I have kept up the exercise portion of my program.

jabe11 posted:

One positive out of this whole thing, it's sure a lot easier to get my kids to eat veggies (we are encouraging [read: enforcing] better nutrition).  They always ate fruit, sure, but just recently, my daughter actually requested broccoli for dinner.  That is a serious win right there.  

The Coronavirus pandemic has made it easier for you to get your children to eat vegetables? 

The Old Man posted:
jabe11 posted:

One positive out of this whole thing, it's sure a lot easier to get my kids to eat veggies (we are encouraging [read: enforcing] better nutrition).  They always ate fruit, sure, but just recently, my daughter actually requested broccoli for dinner.  That is a serious win right there.  

The Coronavirus pandemic has made it easier for you to get your children to eat vegetables? 

Yes...they are receptive to eating healthier, which for us means greens, fresh fruit, smoothies, etc.  In the past, they weren't as receptive, but the have an understanding of the health risks of the virus. 

jabe11 posted:

One positive out of this whole thing, it's sure a lot easier to get my kids to eat veggies (we are encouraging [read: enforcing] better nutrition).  They always ate fruit, sure, but just recently, my daughter actually requested broccoli for dinner.  That is a serious win right there.  

My two grandsons (3 & 5) would rather have broccoli than candy. They certainly didn't get that from their mother.

The Old Man posted:

"Trump tweets that states like Michigan and Minnesota should be 'liberated.'"

I believe that the president of the United States is attempting to foment a civil war. And we're only seven months away from the election. This will only get worse, much worse.

Also for Virginia, but in that tweet he had to add in some 2nd amendment paranoia. Maybe he was disappointed that they don’t have fuctards there clogging traffic and crowding areas with AR-15’s over their shoulders like the morons in Michigan.

Greenwine lost his mom this past Tuesday at age 93.  Presumed coronavirus even though she wasn't tested, but her roommate in the nursing home did test positive.  Very private funeral for no more than 10 people and shiva by way of Zoom.

As with the reported number of cases of confirmed coronavirus, the number of deaths from coronavirus is also underreported. No doubt, there are many seniors dying before they make it to the hospital, let alone get tested.

The stats in my main hospital mirror that of the NY metro area in general.  Number of patients admitted with COVID and number of patients on vents is slowly decreasing, but deaths continue to pile up.  I'm seeing a lot of patients with severe pneumonia in the 40-65 year old range, otherwise healthy, and the youngest intubated (on ventilator) pateint ive seen is 19.  Believe me, everyone is vulnerable.

So sad to see San Diegans participating in a "fuck you society" protest today. Think of the health care workers, food bank volunteers, the grocery store personnel who never thought they would be expected to risk their lives to scan bananas--they are making it worse for them and all of us. Another thing you can thank the "liberator" in chief for inflaming.

The Old Man posted:

So sad to see San Diegans participating in a "fuck you society" protest today. Think of the health care workers, food bank volunteers, the grocery store personnel who never thought they would be expected to risk their lives to scan bananas--they are making it worse for them and all of us. Another thing you can thank the "liberator" in chief for inflaming.

How long should your state be closed for?  You have almost 40 Million people in CA and roughly 29k positive cases in the sate with slightly more than $1k deaths (which is of course tragic that anyone had to die due to these circumstances).

Napa, I think you and your fellow deep thinkers need to make a stand. There have only been "$1k deaths" (interesting slip there since we know for you, in regard to Trump, it's all about the Benjamins.) So you and your like-minded friends need to get together and have protests about this. March shoulder to shoulder. Have big beach parties. Jam together as many of those who know the MSM is blowing this out of proportion. You guys know the truth, so don't listen to the state authorities and scientists. Put your trust in the president who, "really gets his stuff." And be sure to fill those pews. It's already been more than a month since Trump wanted them packed for Easter. So what's the problem? As much as possible I want you, and your Trump supporting friends, to be liberated. So get out there and enjoy and screw everybody else!

napacat posted:
The Old Man posted:

So sad to see San Diegans participating in a "fuck you society" protest today. Think of the health care workers, food bank volunteers, the grocery store personnel who never thought they would be expected to risk their lives to scan bananas--they are making it worse for them and all of us. Another thing you can thank the "liberator" in chief for inflaming.

How long should your state be closed for?  You have almost 40 Million people in CA and roughly 29k positive cases in the sate with slightly more than $1k deaths (which is of course tragic that anyone had to die due to these circumstances).

CA doesn’t reside at the low end of the range of cases/deaths per million residents by luck and willful ignorance.  Those numbers were achieved by being the first state to start implementing shelter in place policies on a regional basis, which subsequently became statewide.  The medical community here isn’t as overwhelmed as NYC or Louisiana, but everyone I know who are medical personnel that go into hospitals whenever they work (which includes immediate family members) are on edge and wearing as much PPE as possible.  My sister is an MD, and by the time she’s done getting ready to go to the hospital for her shift(s), she looks more like an asbestos abatement professional than a doctor.  

There is no vaccine yet available, no verified drug regimen proven to help those who tested positive to recover, and woefully inadequate testing supplies (thus a decent likelihood that there are a significant number of asymptomatic carriers who can still transmit the virus to others).  Until we have positive movement in all those three areas I just mentioned, COVID-19 is going to be with us for awhile.  This is NOT like Spanish flu, which resulted in a quick demise (plenty of anecdotal evidence of people becoming sick in the morning, and passing away before nightfall) and a small percentage of survivors amongst those who were afflicted. 

This has taken a horrific toll on the business communities everywhere here.  But most Californians still want to abide by health experts, rather than incompetent politicians 2500 miles away, to provide guidance on when we should start reopening the state.

Last edited by Insight

Our Republican Governor, Larry Hogan, has been on the national news alot lately because he is the head of the National governor's association. He's been critical of President Trump in many ways.  (He did not vote for Trump).  While Maryland is one of the states with 2 Democratic senators and 2/3 of the voters are registered democrats, Governor Hogan is in his second term as a Republican and enjoys a 70% or so approval rating.  The latest news:

https://www.wbal.com/article/4...00-coronavirus-tests

Here is his press conference....

https://video.search.yahoo.com...4449&action=view

Way to go, Governor!

Last edited by irwin
The Old Man posted:

Napa, I think you and your fellow deep thinkers need to make a stand. There have only been "$1k deaths" (interesting slip there since we know for you, in regard to Trump, it's all about the Benjamins.) So you and your like-minded friends need to get together and have protests about this. March shoulder to shoulder. Have big beach parties. Jam together as many of those who know the MSM is blowing this out of proportion. You guys know the truth, so don't listen to the state authorities and scientists. Put your trust in the president who, "really gets his stuff." And be sure to fill those pews. It's already been more than a month since Trump wanted them packed for Easter. So what's the problem? As much as possible I want you, and your Trump supporting friends, to be liberated. So get out there and enjoy and screw everybody else!

You are tiring Old Man....why make it a political post.  Mine was not political.  Look at the stories coming out about how many people have had it / may have it and have mild symptoms or may not even know.  Factor all that in and the mortality rate is going way down.  We need to protect the elderly and those with an underlying condition...but we have to get back on our feet.

Listening to people who say we could be shut down for three months plus is just insane. 

napacat posted:
The Old Man posted:

Napa, I think you and your fellow deep thinkers need to make a stand. There have only been "$1k deaths" (interesting slip there since we know for you, in regard to Trump, it's all about the Benjamins.) So you and your like-minded friends need to get together and have protests about this. March shoulder to shoulder. Have big beach parties. Jam together as many of those who know the MSM is blowing this out of proportion. You guys know the truth, so don't listen to the state authorities and scientists. Put your trust in the president who, "really gets his stuff." And be sure to fill those pews. It's already been more than a month since Trump wanted them packed for Easter. So what's the problem? As much as possible I want you, and your Trump supporting friends, to be liberated. So get out there and enjoy and screw everybody else!

You are tiring Old Man....why make it a political post.  Mine was not political.  Look at the stories coming out about how many people have had it / may have it and have mild symptoms or may not even know.  Factor all that in and the mortality rate is going way down.  We need to protect the elderly and those with an underlying condition...but we have to get back on our feet.

Listening to people who say we could be shut down for three months plus is just insane. 

I didn't make it political. I called out the bullshit you're trying to shovel. I hate wasting time on you and I hate getting caught up in your phoney innocent troll act. I'm out for this conversation with you.

Last edited by The Old Man
napacat posted:
The Old Man posted:

Napa, I think you and your fellow deep thinkers need to make a stand. There have only been "$1k deaths" (interesting slip there since we know for you, in regard to Trump, it's all about the Benjamins.) So you and your like-minded friends need to get together and have protests about this. March shoulder to shoulder. Have big beach parties. Jam together as many of those who know the MSM is blowing this out of proportion. You guys know the truth, so don't listen to the state authorities and scientists. Put your trust in the president who, "really gets his stuff." And be sure to fill those pews. It's already been more than a month since Trump wanted them packed for Easter. So what's the problem? As much as possible I want you, and your Trump supporting friends, to be liberated. So get out there and enjoy and screw everybody else!

You are tiring Old Man....why make it a political post.  Mine was not political.  Look at the stories coming out about how many people have had it / may have it and have mild symptoms or may not even know.  Factor all that in and the mortality rate is going way down.  We need to protect the elderly and those with an underlying condition...but we have to get back on our feet.

Listening to people who say we could be shut down for three months plus is just insane. 

I highly recommend you go to NYC / Boston / NOLA  and volunteer at one of the hospitals.  You're not worried right, since you're not 'high risk'?  

The Old Man posted:
napacat posted:
The Old Man posted:

Napa, I think you and your fellow deep thinkers need to make a stand. There have only been "$1k deaths" (interesting slip there since we know for you, in regard to Trump, it's all about the Benjamins.) So you and your like-minded friends need to get together and have protests about this. March shoulder to shoulder. Have big beach parties. Jam together as many of those who know the MSM is blowing this out of proportion. You guys know the truth, so don't listen to the state authorities and scientists. Put your trust in the president who, "really gets his stuff." And be sure to fill those pews. It's already been more than a month since Trump wanted them packed for Easter. So what's the problem? As much as possible I want you, and your Trump supporting friends, to be liberated. So get out there and enjoy and screw everybody else!

You are tiring Old Man....why make it a political post.  Mine was not political.  Look at the stories coming out about how many people have had it / may have it and have mild symptoms or may not even know.  Factor all that in and the mortality rate is going way down.  We need to protect the elderly and those with an underlying condition...but we have to get back on our feet.

Listening to people who say we could be shut down for three months plus is just insane. 

I didn't make it political. I called out the bullshit you're trying to shovel. I hate wasting time on you and I hate getting caught up in your phoney innocent troll act. I'm out for this conversation with you.

That's because you are pure emotion without any rational thinking.   I've read and listened to many doctors that state by going on a nationwide quarantine, you are simply delaying when people catch the virus.    So let's go ahead and close the entire nation until we create a vaccine.  

patespo1 posted:
napacat posted:
The Old Man posted:

Napa, I think you and your fellow deep thinkers need to make a stand. There have only been "$1k deaths" (interesting slip there since we know for you, in regard to Trump, it's all about the Benjamins.) So you and your like-minded friends need to get together and have protests about this. March shoulder to shoulder. Have big beach parties. Jam together as many of those who know the MSM is blowing this out of proportion. You guys know the truth, so don't listen to the state authorities and scientists. Put your trust in the president who, "really gets his stuff." And be sure to fill those pews. It's already been more than a month since Trump wanted them packed for Easter. So what's the problem? As much as possible I want you, and your Trump supporting friends, to be liberated. So get out there and enjoy and screw everybody else!

You are tiring Old Man....why make it a political post.  Mine was not political.  Look at the stories coming out about how many people have had it / may have it and have mild symptoms or may not even know.  Factor all that in and the mortality rate is going way down.  We need to protect the elderly and those with an underlying condition...but we have to get back on our feet.

Listening to people who say we could be shut down for three months plus is just insane. 

I highly recommend you go to NYC / Boston / NOLA  and volunteer at one of the hospitals.  You're not worried right, since you're not 'high risk'?  

Nice post...I am not a trained healthcare professional so I would just be in the way.  There was a NY doctor who posted a video that advised on how to avoid the virus (or mitigate it as best as possible).  We all need to take a little bit more personal responsibility and get the country moving.  The numbers just do not make sense.  You're tiring as well.

doubled posted:
Rothko posted:

Well, I took the antibody test on Friday.  Results came back today.  Negative.  I suspected that would be that case, but I am a bit disappointed.

Which company made the test?  There was a NY Times article yesterday about the tests being unreliable especially the ones made in China.

I believe it was from Zhejiang Orient Gene Biotech.  It was the lab assay test.

This just in, from an acquaintance of mine and the father of a classmate of my eldest granddaughter, the incomparable Gene Weingarten.  It's a bit long, but WELL worth the read:

I had an idea for how to stop the idiots from demonstrating,  cheek to jowl, for the right to die of Covfefe-1, and, by gum, spread it to your grandma, too.   Or if it won't stop them, it will at least play with their heads a bit, and maybe make some of them second guess themselves, and realize they just might be helpfully culling their own herd. 

So.  Bear with me.  

Create a good-looking website, as described below.  

For each planned rally, assemble two or three people dressed as health workers, in hospital scrubs, masks, and pretty elaborate haz-mat type gear.   Have them hand out pamphlets.  The pamphlets should be impressive: professionally done on decent paper.   They should be respectful, and read something like this:

We are health care professionals conducting a study on the spread of Covid-19.  We respect your constitutionally guaranteed right to assemble.  We are not passing judgment on this protest event.  But for the sake of medical science, we are looking to gather data on whether this sort of assembly, in defiance of recommended norms, might contribute to the spread of the virus. We are seeking valid data, and have no preconceived notions.  Below is a website we have created for this purpose.   May we ask you to contact us if you develop Covid-19 symptoms within 18 days of this meeting?  Symptoms include a sustained fever of 100 degrees or higher, a dry cough, conjunctivitis ("pinkeye") worrisome sustained lethargy, or any combination of these symptoms.   We also ask you to share this correspondence with at least one loved one in case you cannot contact us yourselves because your symptoms are incapacitating or fatal.  Thank you for your cooperation. 

PH

Last edited by purplehaze
purplehaze posted:
napacat posted:
 I've read and listened to many doctors that state by going on a nationwide quarantine, you are simply delaying when people catch the virus.    So let's go ahead and close the entire nation until we create a vaccine.  
 

Citation, please.  From actual doctors not named Drew, Phil or Oz.  Thank you.

PH 

It was from a Dr, named Dr. David Katz ( I believe a founding director of the Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center).  

napacat posted:
The Old Man posted:

I don't like just linking things, but here's Napa's fellow nitwits at work.

Heroes of the Pandemic

Nice...the very newsworthy Trevor Noah.  Since Jon Stewart left and then John Oliver...this show is unwatchable.

Wow. What did this have to do with Noah? That it was on his show? It was simply a string of lies and misstatements from your hero and his minions. Typical Napa attempt at deflection.

Oh yeah, here's your guy, "In 2015, Katz wrote two positive reviews in his Huffington Post blog for a science fiction book that he had published under a pseudonym, without disclosing that he was the author of the book; Huffington Post retracted the posts."

What is the point of debating or responding to you? You are so shockingly stupid it just isn't worth the time.

Last edited by The Old Man
The Old Man posted:
napacat posted:
The Old Man posted:

I don't like just linking things, but here's Napa's fellow nitwits at work.

Heroes of the Pandemic

Nice...the very newsworthy Trevor Noah.  Since Jon Stewart left and then John Oliver...this show is unwatchable.

Wow. What did this have to do with Noah? That it was on his show? It was simply a string of lies and misstatements from your hero and his minions. Typical Napa attempt at deflection.

Oh yeah, here's your guy, "In 2015, Katz wrote two positive reviews in his Huffington Post blog for a science fiction book that he had published under a pseudonym, without disclosing that he was the author of the book; Huffington Post retracted the posts."

What is the point of debating or responding to you? You are so shockingly stupid it just isn't worth the time.

I can advise yet again that Napacat is truly dumber than he looks!

The Old Man posted:
napacat posted:
The Old Man posted:

I don't like just linking things, but here's Napa's fellow nitwits at work.

Heroes of the Pandemic

Nice...the very newsworthy Trevor Noah.  Since Jon Stewart left and then John Oliver...this show is unwatchable.

Wow. What did this have to do with Noah? That it was on his show? It was simply a string of lies and misstatements from your hero and his minions. Typical Napa attempt at deflection.

Oh yeah, here's your guy, "In 2015, Katz wrote two positive reviews in his Huffington Post blog for a science fiction book that he had published under a pseudonym, without disclosing that he was the author of the book; Huffington Post retracted the posts."

What is the point of debating or responding to you? You are so shockingly stupid it just isn't worth the time.

So you’ll stop doing so?

purplehaze posted:

This just in, from an acquaintance of mine and the father of a classmate of my eldest granddaughter, the incomparable Gene Weingarten.  It's a bit long, but WELL worth the read:

I had an idea for how to stop the idiots from demonstrating,  cheek to jowl, for the right to die of Covfefe-1, and, by gum, spread it to your grandma, too.   Or if it won't stop them, it will at least play with their heads a bit, and maybe make some of them second guess themselves, and realize they just might be helpfully culling their own herd. 

So.  Bear with me.  

Create a good-looking website, as described below.  

For each planned rally, assemble two or three people dressed as health workers, in hospital scrubs, masks, and pretty elaborate haz-mat type gear.   Have them hand out pamphlets.  The pamphlets should be impressive: professionally done on decent paper.   They should be respectful, and read something like this:

We are health care professionals conducting a study on the spread of Covid-19.  We respect your constitutionally guaranteed right to assemble.  We are not passing judgment on this protest event.  But for the sake of medical science, we are looking to gather data on whether this sort of assembly, in defiance of recommended norms, might contribute to the spread of the virus. We are seeking valid data, and have no preconceived notions.  Below is a website we have created for this purpose.   May we ask you to contact us if you develop Covid-19 symptoms within 18 days of this meeting?  Symptoms include a sustained fever of 100 degrees or higher, a dry cough, conjunctivitis ("pinkeye") worrisome sustained lethargy, or any combination of these symptoms.   We also ask you to share this correspondence with at least one loved one in case you cannot contact us yourselves because your symptoms are incapacitating or fatal.  Thank you for your cooperation. 

PH

Here are some thoughts on herd immunity from San Diego MD Paul Saladino. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCOxukyA4Zg

Last edited by spo
spo posted:
purplehaze posted:

This just in, from an acquaintance of mine and the father of a classmate of my eldest granddaughter, the incomparable Gene Weingarten.  It's a bit long, but WELL worth the read:

I had an idea for how to stop the idiots from demonstrating,  cheek to jowl, for the right to die of Covfefe-1, and, by gum, spread it to your grandma, too.   Or if it won't stop them, it will at least play with their heads a bit, and maybe make some of them second guess themselves, and realize they just might be helpfully culling their own herd. 

So.  Bear with me.  

Create a good-looking website, as described below.  

For each planned rally, assemble two or three people dressed as health workers, in hospital scrubs, masks, and pretty elaborate haz-mat type gear.   Have them hand out pamphlets.  The pamphlets should be impressive: professionally done on decent paper.   They should be respectful, and read something like this:

We are health care professionals conducting a study on the spread of Covid-19.  We respect your constitutionally guaranteed right to assemble.  We are not passing judgment on this protest event.  But for the sake of medical science, we are looking to gather data on whether this sort of assembly, in defiance of recommended norms, might contribute to the spread of the virus. We are seeking valid data, and have no preconceived notions.  Below is a website we have created for this purpose.   May we ask you to contact us if you develop Covid-19 symptoms within 18 days of this meeting?  Symptoms include a sustained fever of 100 degrees or higher, a dry cough, conjunctivitis ("pinkeye") worrisome sustained lethargy, or any combination of these symptoms.   We also ask you to share this correspondence with at least one loved one in case you cannot contact us yourselves because your symptoms are incapacitating or fatal.  Thank you for your cooperation. 

PH

Here are some thoughts on herd immunity from San Diego MD Paul Saladino. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCOxukyA4Zg

I’d be very leery of a guy whose credentials and background are severely lacking to be speaking to solutions for a pandemic.  A medical degree doesn’t mean you’re an expert at everything medical-related.

Just as an FYI, the generally accepted percentage of the population needed to achieve herd immunity is 70%.  By even the most extreme and aggressive forecasts of the number of folks who would have tested positive for COVID-19 (but weren’t tested) and have subsequently recovered, we are a long ways from attaining that 70% threshold. 

This is akin to trying to hit critical mass.  It’s not as if the buildup to critical mass involves zero discomfort and suffering, then you’re at critical mass and all hell suddenly breaks loose.  Increasing suffering occurs as you progress.  COVID-19 without social restrictions would result in far higher rates of confirmed fatalities before any sort of herd immunity could be achieved.

@patespo1 posted:

"I've read and listened to MANY doctors..."  then cites one Doctor 

Christ for Fuck's sake...he asked for an example and I listed one.  Can list more if you like.  Nothing to do but sit in your house because government officials tell you to do so and pick apart a post.   You guys are all alike...just a negative bunch of sheep.  Line up outside a grocery store because they have no other ideas. 

What is the point of waiting outside...when you walk right next to someone down the same isle and come within 2 feet of them.   Why wear a mask and gloves in your car? Why wear a mask and gloves while taking a walk.  You're being led by a group of politicians no smarter than the next guy (for the most part).  They only had the audacity and willingness to run for public office.  Stay on the sideline for months and hope the virus goes away...or choose to want to live and take precautions and self-responsibility.    

 

@flwino posted:

are you just plain stupid?   Or born with no brain, and nose attached to Dumspters butt?

Really FL...I need to think and follow you to be smart?  Think for yourself and not just a flock that goes with the flow.  It is a damn tragedy that anyone has had to perish from this virus.  People who may have had an underlying condition did not need to die at this time and would not have without this.  But do we really all need to be sheltered in place to prevent that.  NO

I think a good bit of the frustration (if that is what it is) with the President stems from his utter inconsistency and the divisions within the administration.  For example, while he has been tweeting "Liberate this state and that" and urging states to reopen their economies, yesterday he attacks the Governor of Georgia for opening up too quickly.  He gives a press conference in which he says that if the virus returns in the fall "It will come back in small doses which we can contain." He then turns to Dr. Blix for her comment and asks her, "Dr. Blix, don't you think there is a good chance it won't be coming back?" and  she says, "We don't know that."  Then Dr. Fauci says, "We will have coronavirus in the fall. I am sure of this."

If you are not going to state scientific fact, then don't state opinions as fact.  He obviously has no idea what the future holds and doesn't understand the science one wit.  So, he should not engage in rank speculation.

What is the purpose of having a press conference to announce that 1) the virus is probably not coming back in the fall 2) we don't know if the virus is coming back in the fall and 3) we are certain that the virus is returning in the fall?

The only purpose is to keep your face on TV and try to convince the American people that you are working hard.  Personally, I'd prefer it if the President left the coronavirus matters to the people who understand it, and if he just went off somewhere to play golf. 

From Maryland, where with a population of around 5.5 million, we have around 15,000 cases and about 640 deaths.

 

Irwin, I completely agree these events would be much better without him. I never thought that Mike Pence would offer calmness, reassurance and positivity given my disdain for his core beliefs, but he’s a breath of fresh air when he gets to speak. Except when he’s heaping praise on his boss. The others on the team are excellent as well, both in knowledge and delivery of information. It’s almost like having the 90’s Chicago Bulls with an incompetent coach at the helm trying to derail their success for his own attention.

Last edited by billhike

Billhike:  I don't get the sports analogy.  But, that's ok. Pence seems calm and reasonably intelligent, though he is way too conservative and right wing for me.  I understand why he is so sycophantic.  That's his job and his future depends upon not irritating the Republican base.  Regardless of who wins in 2020, Pence could see himself as a candidate in 2024.

 

@irwin posted:

Billhike:  I don't get the sports analogy.  But, that's ok. Pence seems calm and reasonably intelligent, though he is way too conservative and right wing for me.  I understand why he is so sycophantic.  That's his job and his future depends upon not irritating the Republican base.  Regardless of who wins in 2020, Pence could see himself as a candidate in 2024.

 

To Run Against Biden's 2nd term?

Agree also with Irwin.  Dr. Trump should play golf and lie about his score.  Left the medical stuff  to those who are qualified.  Great article front page WSJ today listing issues with Azar and HHS and the screw ups they made also.

Chicagoans of a certain age will remember what happened to Mayor Michael Bilandic in 1979 with his primary loss to the Jane Byrne, who would go on to become Chicago's first woman mayor. Wikipedia puts it like this, "...[t]he Chicago Blizzard of 1979 in January paralyzed the city and caused Bilandic to be seen as an ineffective leader." Well there's more to what happened to Bilandic than that sentence encompasses and hopefully it will happen to the Despot in Chief. As Paul Harvey used to say, "Here's the rest of the story":

In 1976 Mayor Daley died after after a 21 year reign. The Democratic Machine ran Michael Bilandic who, due to the machine's power, won election handily. And then came the another one of Chicago's great snowstorms. 35 inches of snow found the public struggling to get their cars out of snow banks and unto unplowed roads. The mayor lost support of the public just in time for the primary and he lost.

So what do many of us remember about that time? Two things stand out. First the mayor continued for days to downplay the seriousness of the situation. People just had to look outside at their snow-clogged street and see the mayor was blowing smoke. And second as bad as it was the Mayor talked about how well he was handling the crisis. 

So does any of that sound familiar? Downplay and congratulate. Bilandic, while not as ignorant, narcissistic and lacking of empathy as the current occupant of the WH, kept trying to make the public not believe their own eyes. It didn't work then and hopefully it won't work now.

 

Last edited by The Old Man

The medical profession was surveyed on the question of whether we could open up the country now. 

 The Allergists were in favor of scratching it, but the  Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves. The Gastroenterologists had sort of a gut feeling about it, but the  Neurologists thought the Administration had a lot of nerve.     Meanwhile, Obstetricians felt certain everyone was laboring under a misconception, while  the Ophthalmologists considered the idea shortsighted. 
  Many Pathologists yelled, "Over my dead body!" While the Pediatricians said, "Oh, grow up!” 
  Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness, while the Radiologists could see right through it.   Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing and the Internists claimed it would indeed be a bitter pill to swallow.The Plastic Surgeons opined that this proposal would "put a whole new face on the matter.”  The Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but the Urologists were pissed off at the whole idea.   Anesthesiologists thought the whole idea was a gas, and those lofty Cardiologists didn’t have the heart to say no.     In the end, the Proctologists won out, leaving the entire decision up to the assholes in Washington. 

@irwin posted:

The medical profession was surveyed on the question of whether we could open up the country now. 

 The Allergists were in favor of scratching it, but the  Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves. The Gastroenterologists had sort of a gut feeling about it, but the  Neurologists thought the Administration had a lot of nerve.     Meanwhile, Obstetricians felt certain everyone was laboring under a misconception, while  the Ophthalmologists considered the idea shortsighted. 
  Many Pathologists yelled, "Over my dead body!" While the Pediatricians said, "Oh, grow up!” 
  Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness, while the Radiologists could see right through it.   Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing and the Internists claimed it would indeed be a bitter pill to swallow.The Plastic Surgeons opined that this proposal would "put a whole new face on the matter.”  The Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but the Urologists were pissed off at the whole idea.   Anesthesiologists thought the whole idea was a gas, and those lofty Cardiologists didn’t have the heart to say no.     In the end, the Proctologists won out, leaving the entire decision up to the assholes in Washington. 

Irwin,

If you wrote this and is original, well done. Very funny.

@irwin posted:

The medical profession was surveyed on the question of whether we could open up the country now. 

 The Allergists were in favor of scratching it, but the  Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves. The Gastroenterologists had sort of a gut feeling about it, but the  Neurologists thought the Administration had a lot of nerve.     Meanwhile, Obstetricians felt certain everyone was laboring under a misconception, while  the Ophthalmologists considered the idea shortsighted. 
  Many Pathologists yelled, "Over my dead body!" While the Pediatricians said, "Oh, grow up!” 
  Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness, while the Radiologists could see right through it.   Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing and the Internists claimed it would indeed be a bitter pill to swallow.The Plastic Surgeons opined that this proposal would "put a whole new face on the matter.”  The Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but the Urologists were pissed off at the whole idea.   Anesthesiologists thought the whole idea was a gas, and those lofty Cardiologists didn’t have the heart to say no.     In the end, the Proctologists won out, leaving the entire decision up to the assholes in Washington. 

Too soon. I don't find this remotely funny.

Last edited by The Old Man

The Old Man: I certainly did not mean to upset you or anyone else, and if I did, I apologize.  Humor is personal. 

I did find your comment that you did not find it "remotely" funny to be a nice pun.  All we do these days is do things "remotely." Perhaps someday we'll be able to get together and share a nice bottle of wine in a non-remote fashion.