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Coronavirus 2019

G g-manMember
@Rothko posted:

I keep wanting to think we are at the end of the tunnel, and instead I realize it is just a light on the ceiling and there's another mile or so of tunnel to go!

The more non vaccinated folks there are, the more potential vectors of mutations there will be.

Even the omicron and the delta strain themselves have multiple variants.  the labelling is just arbitrary tagging of general set of mutations by a scientist.

One or more of these mutations is honestly going to become an endemic

winetarelliwinetarelliMember

FWIW. I think Omicron is going to change things. In a few months virtually everyone will either be vaccinated, have gotten COVID at least once, or both. The reality is triple jabbed plus Omicron seems to confer tremendous immunity. Quadruple jabbed likely will as well, and even if a quadruple jabbed person manages to get it, it will be mild.

I think between the Pfizer pill, the effects of Omicron, it’s lesser virulence, all the boosters, etc, by June there is a very good chance “returning to normal” would not be any less safe for the triple (or quadruple) jabbed than acting normally during a typical bad flu season. I now know several people who’ve had Omicron. All were triple jabbed (including one who got his third jab in August). None of them experienced anything as severe as a typical flu. It’s anecdotal, but that seems to be consistent.

Something worse than Omicron may come, but by then there should be a lot of built up immunity and drugs to combat it.

bmanbmanMember
@drtannin 2 posted:

Decrying the vaccine and denying the virus. The irony surrounding all the above premorbid events and/or the deceased's last comments is absolutely astounding.

A recent somewhat tragicomedic but also cynical movie "Don't Look Up" remarkably captures the essence of who we are now in America. Watch with port on a cold late night.

"Port" , you say?  Vintage port, shurely! 

irwinirwinMember

I saw a cartoon which said, "We once thought that this virus was spread mostly from the mouth or nose.  However, scientists now conclude that the virus is spread by assholes."

And another which said, "If you think you don't need vaccinations because God will protect you, then why do you think you need a gun?"

Last edited by irwin
R RothkoMember

My son tested positive this week.  He was vaccinated in April, but didn't get a booster, despite my requests.  A guy at his office (unvaccinated) had gone to a college football game last weekend and came back and tested positive after a few days and must have passed it around to others.

Symptoms are mild and hopefully will be over soon.

Trying to get him a Covid test was an interesting lesson.  He first went to the County testing site for a rapid test on Thursday, and still hasn't gotten the results - so much for rapid!  A PCR test at a pharmacy, such as CVS or Walgreens, was all booked until late next week.  I told him to go to a private lab and get a PCR test.  It cost $250 but was immediately available and he had the PCR results in less than an hour.  So when they say that tests are readily available, they are - if you are willing to pay for it.

irwinirwinMember

I'm not sure of the timeline, that is, when she was in Florida, when she left, when she became symptomatic.  So, it's hard to say, without that information, where she contracted the virus.  It's hard to say even with that information.  But, I am sure she will blame it on the Republicans, who, of course, are to blame for everything.

irwinirwinMember

Latest data from Florida:  Last week there were 470 more deaths, bringing the total now to about 63,000 or so.  These are residents, not snow birds. Florida's Health Department stopped publishing the number of nonresidents who died after testing positive in Florida some time ago.

Florida has a large number of especially vulnerable people. Older people and Trumpers.  But still, 63,000 people is quite a lot of people.

Here in Maryland, we've passed the 12,000 figure.  So, Florida has about 5 times as many deaths as Maryland. The total population of Florida is around 21.5 million, which is a bit more than 3 times the population of Maryland (around 6.2 million).

Last edited by irwin
flwinoflwinoMember

FROM BBC

The Florida Department of Health has placed a top official on administrative leave after he criticised staff over their vaccination rate.

In an email on 4 January, Dr Raul Pino called unvaccinated staff members "irresponsible" and wrote "we are not even at 50% - pathetic".

Legislation passed in Florida late last year prohibits employers, public and private, from mandating jabs.

DOH confirmed on Wednesday the doctor's actions were being investigated.

"As the decision to get vaccinated is a personal medical choice that should be made free from coercion and mandates from employers, the employee in question has been placed on administrative leave, and the Florida Department of Health is conducting an inquiry to determine if any laws were broken in this case," a spokesperson said in a statement to the BBC.

"The Department is committed to upholding all laws, including the ban on vaccine mandates for government employees and will take appropriate action once additional information is known."

Let's call them the Dept of Death   

R RothkoMember
@evatra posted:

it is getting worse again. do you think it is going to be over one day>

Depends on how you define "over".  The virus isn't going to ever go away, I think.  But we will eventually come to treat it like we do the flu.  Most of us will start to go on with our lives and not think much about it.  For most of us who get infected, it will be like having a flu or bad cold.  There will be therapeutic pills and drugs to take. 

For a small portion of the population, older people and those with immunity issues or preexisting conditions, getting Covid will be like getting the flu: they will wind up in hospitals and some will die.

R RothkoMember

According to the CDC, Florida has suffered more Covid deaths than New York.  Yeah Florida!!

The Novavax vaccine has now been submitted for Emergency Use Authorization in the US.  A different, more traditional, type of vaccine mechanism, but it appears to be quite effective as well.  You could argue that they are a bit late getting to the party, but, just as an example, my secretary has refused any Covid vaccine to date but says she will probably take this one when it gets authorized.

mneeley490mneeley490Member
@Rothko posted:

According to the CDC, Florida has suffered more Covid deaths than New York.  Yeah Florida!!

The Novavax vaccine has now been submitted for Emergency Use Authorization in the US.  A different, more traditional, type of vaccine mechanism, but it appears to be quite effective as well.  You could argue that they are a bit late getting to the party, but, just as an example, my secretary has refused any Covid vaccine to date but says she will probably take this one when it gets authorized.

I hope she's working from home.

R RothkoMember

Well, I guess we are coming to the end of the pandemic.  No posts here for two weeks.  Omicron cases appear to be dropping in the US and abroad.  Vaccines, anti-Covid pills, monoclonal antibodies treatments, masks, at-home tests, deworming medicine, whatever you think will protect you...  everyone has their own opinions these days as to what works.  And at least down here in Florida, people are beginning to live a post-pandemic lifestyle however they feel they should.

irwinirwinMember

Omicron sure seems to be in the rear mirror.  95% of Maryland's eligible citizens have been vaxxed.  I suppose the virus has trouble being transmitted from vaxxed and boosted people to others or vice versa.  Our courts are going to reopen for jury trials on March 6 or so, and some of this backlog will begin to dissipate.

haggishaggisMember
@Rothko posted:

Well, I guess we are coming to the end of the pandemic.  No posts here for two weeks.  Omicron cases appear to be dropping in the US and abroad.  Vaccines, anti-Covid pills, monoclonal antibodies treatments, masks, at-home tests, deworming medicine, whatever you think will protect you...  everyone has their own opinions these days as to what works.  And at least down here in Florida, people are beginning to live a post-pandemic lifestyle however they feel they should.

I am not sure about it dropping abroad.  Certainly not uniformly.  Omicron is spiking in Hong Kong, Japan, and in Denmark (following their ill-advised cessation of restrictions).  Eastern Europe and Middle East are up 100%.  Brazil, too.

irwinirwinMember

FEMA has a program to pay up to $9000 to reimburse persons who paid for funerals for people who died from Covid.  There is a limitation on the total per family.

This is, in my view, a ridiculous program.  Taxpayers who got vaccinated and boosted have to pay for funerals for people who refused vaccination and died because of their stupidity?  Of course, some who died did so before vaccinations were available, and some despite vaccinations.  But to use taxpayer money to pay for funerals for people who chose to accept the risk of non-vaccination?

The federal government (meaning taxpayers) does not, to my knowledge, pay for funerals of people who die from cancer, heart attacks, complications of diabetes, car accidents and so forth.

Sometimes, I don't understand our government. Well, actually, a lot of times.

bmanbmanMember
@flwino posted:

Lapardo  Our Sug gen says if well, no shots.  I was very well when I had measles, polio, and al the rest of the so I would not get sick.

Only sickness here is in Tallahassee

Does the doctor have a history of stuff like this - in other words, does he really believe it?  Or is he just spineless and saying what Governor Idiot-Who-Wants-To--Be-President is telling him to say?

irwinirwinMember

Saw a story about a study in “Nature” magazine saying that persons who got Covid frequently have a loss of 2% of their brain mass, memory issues and so forth.

1) I wonder if there is any evidence that such was the case with other viruses?  If not, what is it about Covid that causes this association?

2) I wonder if this is progressive, that is, if one studied the same population in another year, might it be 3%?

C csmMember

Ontario finally to drop masking mandates effective 3/21 including in schools(that's the rumor anyway).  Curious timing to me as it's the day the kids all come back from Spring Break, but my son is really excited at not having to wear a mask anymore.  Suspect a lot of other kids in his class will be quite apprehensive about removing theirs.

D drtannin 2Member
@irwin posted:

Saw a story about a study in “Nature” magazine saying that persons who got Covid frequently have a loss of 2% of their brain mass, memory issues and so forth.

1) I wonder if there is any evidence that such was the case with other viruses?  If not, what is it about Covid that causes this association?

2) I wonder if this is progressive, that is, if one studied the same population in another year, might it be 3%?

Irwin-

COVID is hardly alone here. The main cause of encephailitis is viral, then other nonbacterial organisms like Lyme ds etc.  Plenty of viruses cause encephalitis and/or meningitis resulting in long standing or chronic symptoms as well as acute disease. Herpes is the classic neurotropic virus living in brain and nerves      [ eg HS-V 1,2 [Simplex] and 3 [Varicella-Zoster] and [10 if you're Eddie Murphy] which appear as skin eruptions too. Measles is another you may know of also with a rash, and of course there is Rabies, which requires animal contact,  Polio outside US, and HIV [AIDS] which requires secretion contact.  But increasing in US are West Nile, Equine, Influenza, which are seasonal, and others named after location outbreaks [StLouis, Tuscan, California, Japan, Venezuela] The most recent bad one in the news is Zika which causes microcephaly at birth  Or is it DLT-V [Deranged like T....], which is widespread now, but common in FLA, TXS?   

winetarelliwinetarelliMember
@irwin posted:

Saw a story about a study in “Nature” magazine saying that persons who got Covid frequently have a loss of 2% of their brain mass, memory issues and so forth.

1) I wonder if there is any evidence that such was the case with other viruses?  If not, what is it about Covid that causes this association?

2) I wonder if this is progressive, that is, if one studied the same population in another year, might it be 3%?

Most of these studies are pre-Omicron and show general correlation to disease severity. Half the people I know started re-engaging the world once they were fully vaccinated and boosted. Most of them got Omicron despite being boosted over the holidays. But everyone had only mild symptoms on account of being triple vaccinated. Hopefully, this won’t become an issue down the line…

R RothkoMember
@csm posted:

Don’t plan on getting anymore boosters unless/until there is a new formula and then will take a wait and see approach.  Have had 3 of the shots based on the original strain (three different brands) and feel like I’ve had COVID at least once, though due to an absence of tests, it wasn’t ever confirmed.

There's actually an antibody test that will tell you if you have the antibodies from having had the disease, as opposed to the antibodies from having taken the vaccine.  It costs about $175 down here.  I've been tempted to take it, just out of curiosity.

R RothkoMember

Also, from reading up on this, it sounds like it is likely that in the fall a new Omicron based vaccine booster will be coming out, as opposed to the current boosters which are based on the original virus strain.  And so people that take a second booster now will probably still need to get a new booster shot in the fall.

Obviously, the concern is that Covid may come roaring back in the fall, like the flu.

D drtannin 2Member
@Rothko posted:

Also, from reading up on this, it sounds like it is likely that in the fall a new Omicron based vaccine booster will be coming out, as opposed to the current boosters which are based on the original virus strain.  And so people that take a second booster now will probably still need to get a new booster shot in the fall.

Obviously, the concern is that Covid may come roaring back in the fall, like the flu.

Unless Ab test gives a magnitude [titer strength], since minimal is marginally better than none, what does it matter? The Omicron variant BA2 is similar to BA1 from this past November -January Winter. This is now the dominant strain.  We know boosters won't prevent illness but will prevent serious illness.  Summer and fall too far away to predict what new variant will circulate then, or if any booster at that time will be any more effective. I suspect it will be packaged with a flu vaccine. So, no need to wait.

Last edited by drtannin 2
C csmMember

DR T are you saying that there is benefit in a 4th shot based on the same formulation? I only ask because half of my dr friends didn’t even get a 3rd, and most have no intention of getting a 4th (all under 50 so we’re clear), so I’m curious.  It’s based on their actions/thoughts and discussions we’ve had that is precluding me from getting another booster.  That at I think given how Ontario has used my body as a science experiment it’ll be the Chinese or Russian one!

irwinirwinMember

My feeling is that a 4th shot (another booster) for me (I'm >65) is certainly in order. It causes about 1/2 second of arm pain. Maybe not that much.  It enhances the protection against serious illness.  I see essentially zero harm in getting another shot and potential benefit.

By the way, there is an article floating about which says that in large study (in Brazil) Ivermectin was shown to be ineffective against Covid.  To quote Gomer Pyle, "Surprise, surprise, surprise!"

Last edited by irwin
bmanbmanMember
@irwin posted:

My feeling is that a 4th shot (another booster) for me (I'm >65) is certainly in order. It causes about 1/2 second of arm pain. Maybe not that much.  It enhances the protection against serious illness.  I see essentially zero harm in getting another shot and potential benefit.

By the way, here is an article which says that in large study Ivermectin was shown to be ineffective against Covid.  To quote Gomer Pyle, "Surprise, surprise, surprise!"

I cannot understand people who refuse to take a simple shot that offers further protection against a disease that has killed millions and continues to do so. Where's the downside? 

D drtannin 2Member
@csm posted:

DR T are you saying that there is benefit in a 4th shot based on the same formulation? I only ask because half of my dr friends didn’t even get a 3rd, and most have no intention of getting a 4th (all under 50 so we’re clear), so I’m curious.  It’s based on their actions/thoughts and discussions we’ve had that is precluding me from getting another booster.  That at I think given how Ontario has used my body as a science experiment it’ll be the Chinese or Russian one!

It's all about probabilities. Think of it like insurance. The benefits depend on 1- your age and health, especially risks for severe disease if COVID infected 2- the degree of circulating virus in your area, including community, work, lifestyle. The US has a horrific record of vaccination, infections, hospitalizations, and deaths, that is shameful for a top shelf world power, for a number of reasons. There are essentially no risks.   Nonscientific bias aside, the presence of antibodies against the virus, while transient, acts to shorten the interval where the virus successfully infects and proliferates. This is noteworthy since longer times lead to spread of disease to others,  new mutations, and thereby viral persistence [population concerns], a host of economic disasters our country will undergo the next decade from debt, to loss of health care personnel, to political and more widespread mistrust of science. On a personal level, this leads to severe responses that lead to Cytokine Storm, myocarditis, clotting and other disorders and death. If you have had omicron and a recent booster, are young, healthy, and work from home, and don't live with grandma, there is less need for another booster.  Yes the vaccines are made to respond to older viral versions, but there is still benefit And, unlike most insurance, the vaccine is free. So there is benefit for most of us.

N napacatMember
@billhike posted:

Is your governor selling those to fund gay conversion therapy camps?

This is why I don't contribute  any longer here (ridiculous response welcome)...you likely have never read the entire Bill.  And if you did and you still think it is ok to teach gender identity to a Kindergarten - 3rd grade  student, you are an absolute moron and lucky that you don't have children.  If you cannot get people to agree to this basic concept there is no hope for society.  Nice try at trying to be relevant and a progressive douche...success on your part.  What makes you think you are a little bit witty or remotely intelligent?  You were afraid of co-workers around your cubicle during Covid.  Tried to stay away...but that was a sad post.

Serious discussion welcome on why it is necessary to broach the topic of gender with Kindergarteners. 

C csmMember
@drtannin 2 posted:

It's all about probabilities. Think of it like insurance. The benefits depend on 1- your age and health, especially risks for severe disease if COVID infected 2- the degree of circulating virus in your area, including community, work, lifestyle. The US has a horrific record of vaccination, infections, hospitalizations, and deaths, that is shameful for a top shelf world power, for a number of reasons. There are essentially no risks.   Nonscientific bias aside, the presence of antibodies against the virus, while transient, acts to shorten the interval where the virus successfully infects and proliferates. This is noteworthy since longer times lead to spread of disease to others,  new mutations, and thereby viral persistence [population concerns], a host of economic disasters our country will undergo the next decade from debt, to loss of health care personnel, to political and more widespread mistrust of science. On a personal level, this leads to severe responses that lead to Cytokine Storm, myocarditis, clotting and other disorders and death. If you have had omicron and a recent booster, are young, healthy, and work from home, and don't live with grandma, there is less need for another booster.  Yes the vaccines are made to respond to older viral versions, but there is still benefit And, unlike most insurance, the vaccine is free. So there is benefit for most of us.

Thank you for the thorough and detailed response. 

patespo1patespo1Member
@napacat posted:

This is why I don't contribute  any longer here (ridiculous response welcome)...you likely have never read the entire Bill.  And if you did and you still think it is ok to teach gender identity to a Kindergarten - 3rd grade  student, you are an absolute moron and lucky that you don't have children.  If you cannot get people to agree to this basic concept there is no hope for society.  Nice try at trying to be relevant and a progressive douche...success on your part.  What makes you think you are a little bit witty or remotely intelligent?  You were afraid of co-workers around your cubicle during Covid.  Tried to stay away...but that was a sad post.

Serious discussion welcome on why it is necessary to broach the topic of gender with Kindergarteners.

It is not just about gender identity.  If a student has two mothers or two fathers (or if a teacher is in a same sex relationship) that cannot be discussed either.  It is attempting to normalize an only heterosexual world, when the reality is, that isn't the 'norm'.    It's just another way to marginalize people and make them feel less than. 

irwinirwinMember

more covid news:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/67-...ile-d-144807416.html

Fortunately, the cases are mild.  But it is reminiscent of the event relating to the nomination of Justice Barrett at the White House, when numerous persons contracted the virus.

I suppose there is still risk in getting together with large groups of people. The virus (irrespective of which strain, which variant, which subvariant) spreads quite easily.

C csmMember
@billhike posted:

Three guys in my department who I had dinner with last Wednesday tested positive over the weekend with mild symptoms. I’ve felt fine the whole time and tested negative today.

So strange who gets infected and how.  I've been to several sporting events sans mask and have yet to be knowingly infected, including one last week where 2 of the 4 guys I spent the entire night with tested positive 2 days later (only one had any symptoms).  The other guy and I were and remain negative and symptom free a week later.

Last edited by csm
billhikebillhikeMember
@csm posted:

So strange who gets infected and how.  I've been to several sporting events sans mask and have yet to be knowingly infected, including one last week where 2 of the 4 guys I spent the entire night with tested positive 2 days later (only one had any symptoms).  The other guy and I were and remain negative and symptom free a week later.

Yep. Been to a few concerts in recent months surrounded by people head banging and screaming. So far so good.

N napacatMember
@patespo1 posted:

It is not just about gender identity.  If a student has two mothers or two fathers (or if a teacher is in a same sex relationship) that cannot be discussed either.  It is attempting to normalize an only heterosexual world, when the reality is, that isn't the 'norm'.    It's just another way to marginalize people and make them feel less than.

This is an issue you teach at home.  If a student has two mothers or two fathers or whatever, it is the parents responsibility to address and discuss.  Not a teacher.  And kids in Kindergarten to third grade are just not ready for gender studies.

patespo1patespo1Member
@napacat posted:

This is an issue you teach at home.  If a student has two mothers or two fathers or whatever, it is the parents responsibility to address and discuss.  Not a teacher.  And kids in Kindergarten to third grade are just not ready for gender studies.

It's not 'an issue' until people make it one, like Desantis and the GOP are doing.  If children are not ready for gender studies, then let's not use the terms 'boy' and 'girl', 'mom' and 'dad', etc.  Or is it just the terms that you don't want to talk about, that people shouldn't use? 

N napacatMember
@patespo1 posted:

It's not 'an issue' until people make it one, like Desantis and the GOP are doing.  If children are not ready for gender studies, then let's not use the terms 'boy' and 'girl', 'mom' and 'dad', etc.  Or is it just the terms that you don't want to talk about, that people shouldn't use?

Holy Shit!  Thanks for typing this.  This is what is wrong with America.  Not being able to use the terms boys and girls, moms and dads….ok wow.  Work for Disney? This is just stupid.   The fact that you think you can discuss / teach gender complexities to a kindergartner is simply odd, twisted and abusive.

winetarelliwinetarelliMember
@wineismylife posted:

It was at the request of the CDC.  They're more challenging the precedent than anything else is my understanding.

Yep. I think this is a bad call. I don’t trust this SCOTUS, so don’t enshrine bad precedent at the SC level.  Say, “we would appeal, but it’s moot because we’re lifting the mandate” and move on.

As to the mandate… if they were mandating everyone wear properly fitting N95 or equivalent (KN95/KF94) masks at all times I could see it. But I don’t see it continuing with the way it was working under these current circumstances.

G g-manMember
@napacat posted:

It is proven that masks do not work (due to the type / the way people wear them)...why not just make it a personal choice. Want to wear one...go ahead. Want to wear 5 at once...go ahead.

Do you even understand the science of why some folks say "masks do not work?"

you do realize that every study has been discussing viral load as one of the primary causes of infection right?

When you're working with dry wall, does a mask keep out every single dry wall particle?  Do you forgo the mask anyway just because it's not 100% effective?

You do realize if a mask was 100% effective at keeping any particles out of your respiratory system, you'd die of suffocation right?

N napacatMember
@g-man posted:

Do you even understand the science of why some folks say "masks do not work?"

you do realize that every study has been discussing viral load as one of the primary causes of infection right?

When you're working with dry wall, does a mask keep out every single dry wall particle?  Do you forgo the mask anyway just because it's not 100% effective?

You do realize if a mask was 100% effective at keeping any particles out of your respiratory system, you'd die of suffocation right?

Yeah I think so....pretty much summed it up in my opening sentence:

"It is proven that masks do not work (due to the type / the way people wear them)"

You missed that part?     No one is stopping anyone from wearing a mask on  a plane or anywhere else.  Want to wear one, go ahead.  But mandating a "face covering" is pointless...

flwinoflwinoMember
@napacat posted:

Yeah I think so....pretty much summed it up in my opening sentence:

"It is proven that masks do not work (due to the type / the way people wear them)"

You missed that part?     No one is stopping anyone from wearing a mask on  a plane or anywhere else.  Want to wear one, go ahead.  But mandating a "face covering" is pointless...

However, guess you wish to ignore before the presser that Gov Ron told the students to remove their masks, and were told that they were idiots wearing them

Last edited by flwino
patespo1patespo1Member
@napacat posted:

Typical response...leave the ending off where he said "you can leave them on if you want to".  Do you pull your mask down when you type the nonsense you do?

This is the exact quote

“You do not have to wear those masks,” a visibly annoyed DeSantis said as he approached the podium. “I mean, please take them off. Honestly, it’s not doing anything, and we’ve got to stop with this Covid theater. So if you want to wear it, fine, but this is ridiculous.”

The Governor of the State, saying those exact words to CHILDREN...you don't think that's intimidating them at all?  I would ask for an honest, serious response if you are capable.

G g-manMember
@patespo1 posted:

This is the exact quote

“You do not have to wear those masks,” a visibly annoyed DeSantis said as he approached the podium. “I mean, please take them off. Honestly, it’s not doing anything, and we’ve got to stop with this Covid theater. So if you want to wear it, fine, but this is ridiculous.”

The Governor of the State, saying those exact words to CHILDREN...you don't think that's intimidating them at all?  I would ask for an honest, serious response if you are capable.

better to paraphrase than actually read the transcript.

flwinoflwinoMember
@patespo1 posted:

This is the exact quote

“You do not have to wear those masks,” a visibly annoyed DeSantis said as he approached the podium. “I mean, please take them off. Honestly, it’s not doing anything, and we’ve got to stop with this Covid theater. So if you want to wear it, fine, but this is ridiculous.”

The Governor of the State, saying those exact words to CHILDREN...you don't think that's intimidating them at all?  I would ask for an honest, serious response if you are capable.

Thanks for finding the quote

N napacatMember
@flwino posted:

Thanks for finding the quote

Exactly...thanks for finding the quote...and exactly as I stated...the governor said you can leave them on if you want to.  You seem more worried about saying "these" words to CHILDREN than teaching gender identity to K - 3rd Grade. 

Some of you here are an odd group of people...cannot fathom the way you think.  You certainly stay in your "camps" without deviation no matter how outlandish they are.

I'm a semi- liberal conservative but I would love for anyone to defend / explain the following of the current admins stance:

Border policy

Afghan Exit

Build Back Better (stupid name)

Plan to defeat Covid (More Deaths under Biden than Trump After vaccines and theraputicals)

Ending of Keystone and a terrible energy policy

End of Operation Legend

Vaccine Mandates

Additional $1.9 Trillion on "Covid" relief leading to massive inflation

Thanks.

G g-manMember

Correlation vs causation.  You clearly have no knowledge of either.

Also the keystone pipeline was figuring out how to get canadian oil, to refinerys in texas to export.  Texas has become one of the largest exporters of energy outside of the US, thanks to Trumps policy.  So we're going to give a canadian company funding and permission to run through American soil just so th at 30 full timers can get a job at the cost of billions to tax payers.

There are alot more details to each of the topics you mentioned however none of what anyone tells you would matter since  you clearly have no intention of actually doing any of the research and figuring out the details related to each.

You are, at best, one mindless talking headline, good for clickbiat reading, but never bother in actually recognizing any sort of complexity that real world situations have.

We can start somewhere, look up the definition of liberal.  If you happen to find the inclination to actually have a proper argument, perhaps read the history of our founding also.  Reading the federalist papers would certainly do you more good than watching OAN/Fox for your source of "knowledge"

And lastly, you blame biden for covid deaths, yet folks like you talk about how we shouldnt have vaccines and we should ignore masks.  Your lack of logical thought is not entirely baffling but clearly you lack the insight to recognize it yourself.

Last edited by g-man
N napacatMember
@g-man posted:

Correlation vs causation.  You clearly have no knowledge of either.

Also the keystone pipeline was figuring out how to get canadian oil, to refinerys in texas to export.  Texas has become one of the largest exporters of energy outside of the US, thanks to Trumps policy.  So we're going to give a canadian company funding and permission to run through American soil just so th at 30 full timers can get a job at the cost of billions to tax payers.

There are alot more details to each of the topics you mentioned however none of what anyone tells you would matter since  you clearly have no intention of actually doing any of the research and figuring out the details related to each.

You are, at best, one mindless talking headline, good for clickbiat reading, but never bother in actually recognizing any sort of complexity that real world situations have.

We can start somewhere, look up the definition of liberal.  If you happen to find the inclination to actually have a proper argument, perhaps read the history of our founding also.  Reading the federalist papers would certainly do you more good than watching OAN/Fox for your source of "knowledge"

And lastly, you blame biden for covid deaths, yet folks like you talk about how we shouldnt have vaccines and we should ignore masks.  Your lack of logical thought is not entirely baffling but clearly you lack the insight to recognize it yourself.

Too many things to dissect...but I'll just start with vaccines...Never once did I say that we should not have them.  I think they are great for the group of people that needs them.  They should NOT be mandated however.  Kind of like "My Body My Choice"

N napacatMember
@napacat posted:

Too many things to dissect...but I'll just start with vaccines...Never once did I say that we should not have them.  I think they are great for the group of people that needs them.  They should NOT be mandated however.  Kind of like "My Body My Choice"

@g-man posted:

Correlation vs causation.  You clearly have no knowledge of either.

Also the keystone pipeline was figuring out how to get canadian oil, to refinerys in texas to export.  Texas has become one of the largest exporters of energy outside of the US, thanks to Trumps policy.  So we're going to give a canadian company funding and permission to run through American soil just so th at 30 full timers can get a job at the cost of billions to tax payers.

There are alot more details to each of the topics you mentioned however none of what anyone tells you would matter since  you clearly have no intention of actually doing any of the research and figuring out the details related to each.

You are, at best, one mindless talking headline, good for clickbiat reading, but never bother in actually recognizing any sort of complexity that real world situations have.

We can start somewhere, look up the definition of liberal.  If you happen to find the inclination to actually have a proper argument, perhaps read the history of our founding also.  Reading the federalist papers would certainly do you more good than watching OAN/Fox for your source of "knowledge"

And lastly, you blame biden for covid deaths, yet folks like you talk about how we shouldnt have vaccines and we should ignore masks.  Your lack of logical thought is not entirely baffling but clearly you lack the insight to recognize it yourself.

And you use way too many broad sweeping generalizations that you think "fit" people who don't think like you.  Just to simply put people in a group to avoid a "real" discussion.   

G g-manMember
@napacat posted:

And you use way too many broad sweeping generalizations that you think "fit" people who don't think like you.  Just to simply put people in a group to avoid a "real" discussion.   

you have yet to show me that you aren't any better than a generalization.  Your past postings have done exactly that, you refuse to acutally do the research.  you refuse to actually find real source of information, you refused to actually read the transcripts, and you have yet to formulate any real opinion that shows the nuances to let me know that you're actually thinking for yourself on any of the topics you post about.

But when you do, i'll be more than happy to engage you as such and i'll be happy to open the bottle for the discussion to.

Last edited by g-man
R RothkoMember

My wife threw a girls' party on Friday night at our house - I went out and stayed away.  8 ladies attended; 5 of whom now have Covid, including my wife.  Somehow I appear to have avoided getting it from her (tested today and was negative); I attribute it to the second booster I received in April (she did not get a second booster).  She's sick as a dog, although it's still considered "mild", and quarantining. 

bmanbmanMember
@Rothko posted:

My wife threw a girls' party on Friday night at our house - I went out and stayed away.  8 ladies attended; 5 of whom now have Covid, including my wife.  Somehow I appear to have avoided getting it from her (tested today and was negative); I attribute it to the second booster I received in April (she did not get a second booster).  She's sick as a dog, although it's still considered "mild", and quarantining.

Very sorry to hear that.  My son and daughter-in-law both have Covid now.  His symptoms are very mild but she was also sick as a dog for a few days but it getting better now.

Covid ain't over until it's over.  Which may never happen.....

N napacatMember
@g-man posted:

you have yet to show me that you aren't any better than a generalization.  Your past postings have done exactly that, you refuse to acutally do the research.  you refuse to actually find real source of information, you refused to actually read the transcripts, and you have yet to formulate any real opinion that shows the nuances to let me know that you're actually thinking for yourself on any of the topics you post about.

But when you do, i'll be more than happy to engage you as such and i'll be happy to open the bottle for the discussion to.

You actually have zero idea of what I read or the research I do.  This is not a forum where people actaully go in depth on anything (even wine).  I typed a thought / question to ask on any of the below topics and would love to have anyone "not on my side of thinking" respond to how these make sense to the US as a whole.  Instead of a defense on any of them...it's easier to just attack the poster.  I'll try again...defend any of the below:



Border policy

Afghan Exit

Build Back Better (stupid name)

Plan to defeat Covid (More Deaths under Biden than Trump After vaccines and theraputicals)

Ending of Keystone and a terrible energy policy

End of Operation Legend

Vaccine Mandates

Additional $1.9 Trillion on "Covid" relief leading to massive inflation

N napacatMember
@flwino posted:

Napa, in short about vaccines, you hate, measles, polio, pneumonia, dpt, mumps, shingles, small pox etc.  These have been mandated for years, and I'd bet that you and the family probably all have had them.  Stop the BS "my body, my choice".

Not the same.  Those vaccines were studied for a lot longer prior to be put into use (MRNA was not around at the time) sans Shingles and they actually work at stopping the virus / disease rather than making it more manageable.    J&J vaccine just suspended for people younger than 18 due to blood clotting issues. 

Again, if you are in a high risk group...you should take it.   The decision should be up to you and not a mandate. 

I don't know how VP Harris can stand up and shout...you cannot tell a woman what to do with their bodies, then be for a vaccine mandate.

bmanbmanMember
@flwino posted:

Also see that the US has surpassed on MILLION deaths due to this.  Remember when the Orange haired guy poo-pooed this saying only a flu, and 37K die a year.  Will disappear within a few weeks.

Someone should write a musical using all the idiotic comments The Orange Menace made about Covid.  In fact, many musicals could be written using just his own hilarious-but-tragic words about sooooo many things!

D drtannin 2Member
@bman posted:

Someone should write a musical using all the idiotic comments The Orange Menace made about Covid.  In fact, many musicals could be written using just his own hilarious-but-tragic words about sooooo many things!

Jimmy Kimmel does these regularly. But there is not enough time to include the stupidity, whether through tweets or speeches. It needs a separate wing in the Library of Congress.

D drtannin 2Member

"Border policy

Afghan Exit

Build Back Better (stupid name)

Plan to defeat Covid (More Deaths under Biden than Trump After vaccines and theraputicals)

Ending of Keystone and a terrible energy policy

End of Operation Legend

Vaccine Mandates

Additional $1.9 Trillion on "Covid" relief leading to massive inflation"

---------------------

I am not a Democrat nor a fan of many of Biden's fiscal policies, and I do not like big government at any level, but God, I'm so tired of the idiocy wave that has spread over this country the last 5-6 years. So I will "rant" here a bit.

I'll tackle 4 and 7 of these, which I can discuss and debate. I'll touch on 8:

1- Plan to defeat COVID/ Vaccine Mandates- The prime blame rests on: 1- China for denying then minimizing , failing to warn and in fact hiding, and then failing to contain the virus in 2020 as people flew home from Chinese New Year and months after; then, thereafter on their zero COVID policy which has torched their economy, and sunk the supply lines so many companies here use that depend on them, the secondary spillover affecting supply costs and price inflation here; secondary blame here rests on Trump and his cronies for his 2020 denial, diminishment of the virus management, including delay of testing,  decry of masking or vaccination, and disintegration of governmental public health programs forcing the states to haphazardly handle their own affairs; and lastly, the unvaccinated, a 30% large minority group of mostly [but not wholly] uneducated conspiracists, ultraconservative panderers, and narcissistic self righteous loudmouths--homo ignoramus in short, whose persistent placement of themselves over our society in general has led to US having 3rd world results in terms of disease spread, hospitalization, and COVID mortality; and over time to massive health care costs, and resultant health staffing problems, which swings back to further hurt our economy, into the foreseeable future.  The 1M deaths rests on these three groups shoulders, not on Biden, who inherited hell.



2- Massive Inflation: Some of inflation definitely rests on Biden and the current govt policies. Way too many wasteful programs and pork find their way into bills today. Debt from PPP, Credits, Stimulus is definitely part of that and some was necessary but the graft and crime was not controlled. That started with the incompetent disorganized DJT regime but still exists today.  Absolving student or mortgage debt teaches people nothing. Actions have results. Yet, debt is but one component that contributes to inflation. The Debt/GDP ratio has been rising for 8 years.  Failure to collect adequate taxes owed to fill coffers is contributory [DT's Tax Plan].  Excess spending on inane projects like border walls that Mexico "was going to pay for" and poor handling of refugees trying to enter here mostly from Mexico, and even other wasteful programs formulated on both sides of the aisle is another. Less money in, and more out is not necessary, but can be a promoter for inflation, but it is a component in stagflation. Still inflation is complex due to lots of local and international factors, including COVID effects, hot economy demand and low supply, companies willfully overcharging to pay wages, shutdowns in business trade lines from foreign wars or nationalist policies, and years of excessive easy credit eg  Money supply-M2 that have come due.

Instead of reading Facebook MAGA Melanie Health Policy, Theories of F-You Economics by Margorie Taylor Greene,  Vacation Traveling [to Cancun] on someone else's Dime by Ted Cruz,  How to Have Sex and Abortion in Republican States by Matt Gaetz, Putin and me- BFF by DJT, Stacking the Supreme Court with Non Constitutional Cronies by M McConnell, or Reality with JFK Today by QAnon Now, I suggest reading the New England Journal for Medicine and Health Policy, and the Wall Street Journal to improve understanding of World Business and Inflation Macroeconomics.

Last edited by drtannin 2
G g-manMember
@napacat posted:

You actually have zero idea of what I read or the research I do.  This is not a forum where people actaully go in depth on anything (even wine).  I typed a thought / question to ask on any of the below topics and would love to have anyone "not on my side of thinking" respond to how these make sense to the US as a whole.  Instead of a defense on any of them...it's easier to just attack the poster.  I'll try again...defend any of the below:



Border policy

Afghan Exit

Build Back Better (stupid name)

Plan to defeat Covid (More Deaths under Biden than Trump After vaccines and theraputicals)

Ending of Keystone and a terrible energy policy

End of Operation Legend

Vaccine Mandates

Additional $1.9 Trillion on "Covid" relief leading to massive inflation

actually folks do go into quite alot of wine depth here.

something you have posted 0 about.  and yes I know exactly what kind of research you do based on that statement alone.

i already posted something on keystone and you didnt seem to have any concrete response against it.  So again.  when you show you yourself can post some decent well thought out and coherent argument for it then I'd respect your drivel a whole lot more.

N napacatMember
@flwino posted:

Also see that the US has surpassed on MILLION deaths due to this.  Remember when the Orange haired guy poo-pooed this saying only a flu, and 37K die a year.  Will disappear within a few weeks.

I have a good quote:  " I will not shut down the country, I am going to shut down the virus"    Author of that statement Biden.  More deaths under his watch than his predecessor, with three vaccines and therapeuticals.     Way to go Joe.

G g-manMember
@drtannin 2 posted:

2- Massive Inflation: Some of inflation definitely rests on Biden and the current govt policies. Way too many wasteful programs and pork find their way into bills today. Debt from PPP, Credits, Stimulus is definitely part of that and some was necessary but the graft and crime was not controlled. That started with the incompetent disorganized DJT regime but still exists today.  Absolving student or mortgage debt teaches people nothing. Actions have results. Yet, debt is but one component that contributes to inflation. The Debt/GDP ratio has been rising for 8 years.  Failure to collect adequate taxes owed to fill coffers is contributory [DT's Tax Plan].  Excess spending on inane projects like border walls that Mexico "was going to pay for" and poor handling of refugees trying to enter here mostly from Mexico, and even other wasteful programs formulated on both sides of the aisle is another. Less money in, and more out is not necessary, but can be a promoter for inflation, but it is a component in stagflation. Still inflation is complex due to lots of local and international factors, including COVID effects, hot economy demand and low supply, companies willfully overcharging to pay wages, shutdowns in business trade lines from foreign wars or nationalist policies, and years of excessive easy credit eg  Money supply-M2 that have come due.

Instead of reading Facebook MAGA Melanie Health Policy, Theories of F-You Economics by Margorie Taylor Greene,  Vacation Traveling [to Cancun] on someone else's Dime by Ted Cruz,  How to Have Sex and Abortion in Republican States by Matt Gaetz, Putin and me- BFF by DJT, Stacking the Supreme Court with Non Constitutional Cronies by M McConnell, or Reality with JFK Today by QAnon Now, I suggest reading the New England Journal for Medicine and Health Policy, and the Wall Street Journal to improve understanding of World Business and Inflation Macroeconomics.

The debt/gdp ratio has always been kind of a fluffy ratio to judge inflationary pressures, simply because direct govt intervention leads to higher GDP.  The ratio changes when businesses need just that extra push to reach critical mass in where they can multiply their earnings.

The wasteful programs though, are very very specific.  The argument is that this inflationary party started with Powell.  No one wants to be the one that ends the party, and Powell certainly had no inclinations for such, keeping rates at  record low levels for so long, quantative easing policy and then not recognizing the inevitability with markets at such lofty levels that we're simply repeating greenspan's "irrational exuberance"  But house prices were rising and income was increasing.  (wasnt that the goal in the f irst place??)

Some of the blame definltely goes into the monetary stimulus programs to the tune of over a trillion.  It's not that "folks dont want to go back to work"  Rather it adds the pressure where folks will have the opportunity to look for higher paying work.  This raises wages, and increases costs for businesses, which will pass their costs onto the consumer.  They will naturally overshoot and charge as much as the market will bear so as to ensure healthy profits to weather the inevitable downturn when their customers are drained dry and they need to lay off and lower costs again.

The keystone pipeline would be one of these pork projects.  billions in govt spending to help a canadian company ship some hard to process oil half way across the continent to be processed down in TX for what?  30 full time jobs?  We're paying for canadian gas and giving them a handout.  Texas is the largest exporter of oil and gas in the country, exporting almost 60% of the US total energy exports, why aren't "true republicans" talking about why texas isnt selling that gas and oil to americans at a cheaper price?

Inflation is good.  It's a tide that rises all boats for folks who have hard assets like homes.  It's a terrible thing for folks renting and living paycheck to paycheck. and it's a slightly bad annoying thing for rich folks sitting on a bunch of cash and not knowing what to do with it.  If you go by that statement, that's the thought process behind maintaininga  3% inflation target.  It forces the rich to buy things, increasing hard asset values so that those who were fortunate enough to pay assets on the cheap will be able to increase their networth.  One of the biggest assets is going to be the home.  Our inflationary policies are really all geared around home values.

My conspiracy theory though, is that these inflationary pressures are strictly manufactured by the retiring boomers in politics and power.  They want to rapidly increase their home values, sell their homes to the rest of us, have the market crash so they can pick up their retirement home somewhere cheaper.  I've met some great boomers in the wine world, but man , "Y'all policies suck shit"

Last edited by g-man
N napacatMember
@drtannin 2 posted:

"Border policy

Afghan Exit

Build Back Better (stupid name)

Plan to defeat Covid (More Deaths under Biden than Trump After vaccines and theraputicals)

Ending of Keystone and a terrible energy policy

End of Operation Legend

Vaccine Mandates

Additional $1.9 Trillion on "Covid" relief leading to massive inflation"

---------------------

I am not a Democrat nor a fan of many of Biden's fiscal policies, and I do not like big government at any level, but God, I'm so tired of the idiocy wave that has spread over this country the last 5-6 years. So I will "rant" here a bit.

I'll tackle 4 and 7 of these, which I can discuss and debate. I'll touch on 8:

1- Plan to defeat COVID/ Vaccine Mandates- The prime blame rests on: 1- China for denying then minimizing , failing to warn and in fact hiding, and then failing to contain the virus in 2020 as people flew home from Chinese New Year and months after; then, thereafter on their zero COVID policy which has torched their economy, and sunk the supply lines so many companies here use that depend on them, the secondary spillover affecting supply costs and price inflation here; secondary blame here rests on Trump and his cronies for his 2020 denial, diminishment of the virus management, including delay of testing,  decry of masking or vaccination, and disintegration of governmental public health programs forcing the states to haphazardly handle their own affairs; and lastly, the unvaccinated, a 30% large minority group of mostly [but not wholly] uneducated conspiracists, ultraconservative panderers, and narcissistic self righteous loudmouths--homo ignoramus in short, whose persistent placement of themselves over our society in general has led to US having 3rd world results in terms of disease spread, hospitalization, and COVID mortality; and over time to massive health care costs, and resultant health staffing problems, which swings back to further hurt our economy, into the foreseeable future.  The 1M deaths rests on these three groups shoulders, not on Biden, who inherited hell.



2- Massive Inflation: Some of inflation definitely rests on Biden and the current govt policies. Way too many wasteful programs and pork find their way into bills today. Debt from PPP, Credits, Stimulus is definitely part of that and some was necessary but the graft and crime was not controlled. That started with the incompetent disorganized DJT regime but still exists today.  Absolving student or mortgage debt teaches people nothing. Actions have results. Yet, debt is but one component that contributes to inflation. The Debt/GDP ratio has been rising for 8 years.  Failure to collect adequate taxes owed to fill coffers is contributory [DT's Tax Plan].  Excess spending on inane projects like border walls that Mexico "was going to pay for" and poor handling of refugees trying to enter here mostly from Mexico, and even other wasteful programs formulated on both sides of the aisle is another. Less money in, and more out is not necessary, but can be a promoter for inflation, but it is a component in stagflation. Still inflation is complex due to lots of local and international factors, including COVID effects, hot economy demand and low supply, companies willfully overcharging to pay wages, shutdowns in business trade lines from foreign wars or nationalist policies, and years of excessive easy credit eg  Money supply-M2 that have come due.

Instead of reading Facebook MAGA Melanie Health Policy, Theories of F-You Economics by Margorie Taylor Greene,  Vacation Traveling [to Cancun] on someone else's Dime by Ted Cruz,  How to Have Sex and Abortion in Republican States by Matt Gaetz, Putin and me- BFF by DJT, Stacking the Supreme Court with Non Constitutional Cronies by M McConnell, or Reality with JFK Today by QAnon Now, I suggest reading the New England Journal for Medicine and Health Policy, and the Wall Street Journal to improve understanding of World Business and Inflation Macroeconomics.

Drtannin,

I thank you for the lengthy reply...and will say I agree with some of your assessments.  Stating you are not a democrat, your final paragraph only seems to call out Republican missteps without one mention of a Democratic politician.  Surely this is not as one sided as that.

N napacatMember
@g-man posted:

The debt/gdp ratio has always been kind of a fluffy ratio to judge inflationary pressures, simply because direct govt intervention leads to higher GDP.  The ratio changes when businesses need just that extra push to reach critical mass in where they can multiply their earnings.

The wasteful programs though, are very very specific.  The argument is that this inflationary party started with Powell.  No one wants to be the one that ends the party, and Powell certainly had no inclinations for such, keeping rates at  record low levels for so long, quantative easing policy and then not recognizing the inevitability with markets at such lofty levels that we're simply repeating greenspan's "irrational exuberance"  But house prices were rising and income was increasing.  (wasnt that the goal in the f irst place??)

Some of the blame definltely goes into the monetary stimulus programs to the tune of over a trillion.  It's not that "folks dont want to go back to work"  Rather it adds the pressure where folks will have the opportunity to look for higher paying work.  This raises wages, and increases costs for businesses, which will pass their costs onto the consumer.  They will naturally overshoot and charge as much as the market will bear so as to ensure healthy profits to weather the inevitable downturn when their customers are drained dry and they need to lay off and lower costs again.

Inflation is good.  It's a tide that rises all boats for folks who have hard assets like homes.  It's a terrible thing for folks renting and living paycheck to paycheck. and it's a slightly bad annoying thing for rich folks sitting on a bunch of cash and not knowing what to do with it.  If you go by that statement, that's the thought process behind maintaininga  3% inflation target.  It forces the rich to buy things, increasing hard asset values so that those who were fortunate enough to pay assets on the cheap will be able to increase their networth.  One of the biggest assets is going to be the home.  Our inflationary policies are really all geared around home values.

My conspiracy theory though, is that these inflationary pressures are strictly manufactured by the retiring boomers in politics and power.  They want to rapidly increase their home values, sell their homes to the rest of us, have the market crash so they can pick up their retirement home somewhere cheaper.  I've met some great boomers in the wine world, but man , "Y'all policies suck shit"

You touch on some decent points, but far to willingly to gloss over reality...and your conspiracy theory is way off.

G g-manMember
@napacat posted:

You touch on some decent points, but far to willingly to gloss over reality...and your conspiracy theory is way off.

yea and this is why I don't value anything to say.  Feel free to copy paste something you found on the internet again for your response.  I make far more money looking at inflationary numbers as a career than you ever look at

Last edited by g-man
G g-manMember

dr tannin,

what do you think about the endemic that is now covid?  Seems like it's inevitable that we can never force everyone to not do anything for 2 weeks and with global travel there will inevitably be new dominant strains every year or so.  Do some humans just adapt via evolutionary pressures?  Ie, our kid's kids will make covid like a flu or do you think we're headed for an inevitable, there goes 30% of the world's population with one wrong mutation away?

D drtannin 2Member

G-man -   Natural selection evolution for small numbered and slowly reproducing species like ours is in the 10-100,000 years range.  So adaptation by genetics won’t happen to anyone we know. And for those that somehow are genetically immune, science not sex will allow those genes to pass through generations.  Using those genes to fashion therapy or resistance is the only viable course, as we have started  with mRNA and CRISPR technologies.  The problem is being smart enough to accept and incorporate these universally.  If portions of a bat genome would save your life from a killer virus would you accept it?. The scenario of a virus wiping us out is unlikely, because as hosts disappear so will the virus; even in that mass casualty situation, there will still be survivors. Perhaps if the virus becomes a species killer, we will unite with purpose for survival.                                                                                 The most likely result is a small segment of the population will not survive every year, the  % greater than with the flu, but not as bad as smallpox, with some years worse than others depending on virus virulence and persistence, and vaccination coverage or other successful scientific therapies.  That doesn’t bode well for older folks like me.  My best but still limited guess is we adapt by “living with” this and other novel mostly untreatable infectious agents as we have started to now but on a survival level more like 150 years ago,  with higher mortality  and morbidity than we have enjoyed over the most recent 50. What’s not knowable are: the rise of new agents or return of ancient ones as are being discovered in thawing Siberian terrain which may be worse; whether viral remnants in our genome will cause new autoimmune or cancer like diseases or give us protection from other diseases; or the discovery of a scientific cure. It’s a long race, but we are trailing and trying to catch up to a rabbit like vir.  Our science aware brains are unique among species on this planet and could help us survive in some fashion.  But if we act to remain a stubborn discordant species, that fights amongst itself  and rejects our scientific breakthroughs, we won’t do well.  Remember a quarter of humans have died at the hands of another, though far less recently . If there is a killer virus risking the ends of days, we know what to expect