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Rothko posted:

If you haven't checked out this site, you should:

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis...40299423467b48e9ecf6

It's very cool.

It also demonstrates that this virus isn't going to be contained, and it's going to be global.

 

 

 

 

I believe the actual cases are dramatically above the documented cases, especially in China.  I wouldn't trust anything China says about the corona virus.  It will definitely spread, hopefully spring weather will help reduce the cases.  Several problems in dealing with this is the long timeframe for developing symptoms and transmission of the virus before getting any symptoms.

The Old Man posted:

"Trump, seeking to tamp down fears of coronavirus, names Pence to lead response"

See, everything's under control. Pence issued his first guideline for dealing with the virus: "Pray."

Really.  This is scarier than the virus.  Why not have a medical professional, like Fauci, lead such an effort??

haggis posted:
The Old Man posted:

"Trump, seeking to tamp down fears of coronavirus, names Pence to lead response"

See, everything's under control. Pence issued his first guideline for dealing with the virus: "Pray."

Really.  This is scarier than the virus.  Why not have a medical professional, like Fauci, lead such an effort??

Of course.

Trump's incompetence may cost lives and livelihoods.  

On the way back into the US this past Saturday night, we were "screened" for coronavirus.

A person asked us if we had been to China in the prior 14 days. We said "no."  End of screening.

Not sure if this is feasible, but one wonders if the state department or homeland security has a computer base of people traveling on US passports who have used them to get into China or s. Korea or Italy or Iran  or other virus affected areas recently, and if inquiries can be made of those people to really assess the virulence of the virus.  Would such a "search" be deemed "unreasonable" (under the 4th amendment) particularly insofar as no criminal activity on the part of such a traveler would be suspected?  Would this be a scientifically sound approach?

There sure was a lot of coughing on the plane, though perhaps I was just more sensitive to it. Even in the Caribbean, when we entered Barbados, we had to fill out a paper about our travel in the past 14 days, and the same when we entered Grenada.

About 675,000 people died in 1918-1919 from the flu in the United States. A staggering number considering that the population then was about 1/3 of what we have now, so this is the equivalent of about 2 million deaths today.  Geez.

 

 

5 cases in Maryland.  At least 4 associated with foreign travel. Perhaps you saw Governor Hogan on Meet the Press yesterday.  He's a Republican in a very blue state. He has at least a 70% approval rating.  I hope he runs for President next time around.  His problem is that he is rational, intelligent, calm, and honest. Might disqualify him.

Coachella has been postponed.

In regards to the mortality rate, we don't have great information yet.  The best right now is probably from South Korea which has decent medical care and has significant testing.  The mortality rate (deaths compared to diagnosed cases ) is 0.6%.  My guess is the % compared to contracted cases is significantly lower and closer to the regular flu, as many people may have contracted the virus and not reported it or had it diagnosed.

Also of note, the average age of people dying in the US from the virus is 80 years old.

I understand being cautious, but I do think that there has been a big overreaction to the situation.

Almost a year ago we booked a Mediterranean cruise starting in Venice May 4 and ending Barcelona three weeks later. Needless to say we cancelled, yesterday. 😢

 

The highlight for me was going to be two days at the Monte Carlo Grand Prix, and we also have a car and driver booked for a private tour of Ornellaia followed by a late lunch at Sassicaia. I’m a bit choked that these things won’t be happening. I feel very sorry for the people in Italy and all the other areas around the globe who are being affected daily by this epidemic, physically, psychologically, and financially.

The cruise line’s been pretty good about cancellation, with full refund but only as future cruise credit to be used within 1 year of our embarkation date. Under the circumstances, that’s pretty fair.

thistlintom posted:

Coachella has been postponed.

In regards to the mortality rate, we don't have great information yet.  The best right now is probably from South Korea which has decent medical care and has significant testing.  The mortality rate (deaths compared to diagnosed cases ) is 0.6%.  My guess is the % compared to contracted cases is significantly lower and closer to the regular flu, as many people may have contracted the virus and not reported it or had it diagnosed.

Also of note, the average age of people dying in the US from the virus is 80 years old.

I understand being cautious, but I do think that there has been a big overreaction to the situation.

Over 630 dead from it in Italy. 4,000 worldwide. I’m not advocating panic, but what’s the quantity of deaths in the United States that would change your mind about things being an overreaction? Serious question, asked respectfully.

Last edited by billhike
billhike posted:

Pearl Jam has postponed their tour. I have tickets for a metal show in early April, and I won’t be shocked if it’s called off.

The majority of live music I go see involves sweaty bodies in close contact in confined spaces. 

Went to a concert Saturday night at my favorite local club and coughed my way to the front row.

 

Too bad on PJ. Eddie went to HS locally and has been a big supporter of the theatre program there which was his support system when he was there. The theatre building would not be there without his support. Its been a major part of my daughter's HS experience and a life changer being a part of that program. He's a really great human being

Last edited by bomba503

My older son is home on Spring Break from college, and his school just sent an email that they are going to have virtual classes only for the time being and he shouldn't go back.

My younger son's local high school is already asking all the parents about in-home internet and computer access for virtual classes, and I'm anticipating that they are going to shut down as well in the next week or two.

Crazy night for us. We have a son in Ireland who just had to book a flight home tomorrow to avoid another 30 days there. Also have two at home on spring break, with one having his break extended one week and another in med school told she has to be at school Monday for a meeting. Totally insane having to cancel and rebook flights with everything changing so fast.

Here's what has to happen and will partially happen naturally by itself. People 70 and up and those with compromised immune systems need to go out as little as possible, stay at home. Not going out at all would be best. Everything can be delivered to them through Amazon, Uber Eats etc. They would receive each package using a new set of gloves and would give the packaging a light once over with antiseptic wipes. Meanwhile the rest of society could go on with basketball games and trips to Las Vegas. However they would have to know the following: If they're over 70, they are there at their own risk. Younger people will know the risk is minimal, probably even less than that of dying of the yearly flu. (Already a very small percent in their demographic.)  They would also have to aware that they could not go visit a relative or friend in the compromised group without putting on full body protection.

I believe there's no better way to handle this responsibly and yet also with the least amount of impact to society in general.

Last edited by The Old Man
irwin posted:
italianwino posted:

There is a drug called Kevzara which treats RA that could benefit patients who are coronavirus positive. Only time will tell.

 

Is there a scientific basis for your statement? Or is this just some advertisement for the company that makes this drug.

I tried looking it up but any reference to this and the outbreak are at weird sites with lots of popup advertising. Some of the sites just have weird names like, fiercepharma.

All public schools in Maryland closed for 2 weeks or so. The Catholic schools are following suit, and I suppose many other private schools will do likewise.  Full scale panic has set in. We're supposed to go out to eat Saturday night with another couple, and they are afraid to go.  Our synagogue has canceled religious services for the next two weeks.  The Courts are not having any jury trials for the next three weeks.  I was supposed to have a hearing this Tuesday in one of the courts, but they announced that they are closing.  The Governor has called out the National Guard.  Not sure why. You can't shoot the virus can you?

It's as close to full scale panic as I have ever seen.

Last edited by irwin
winetarelli posted:

Spent $600 at Costco and $500 Amazon today. Probably another $500+ by the end of the weekend. But... can we talk about this toilet paper thing?  I mean... why?  Why toilet paper. We all need it, but... how much can you actually go through?  This makes no sense. 

Another item disappearing from shelves are condoms. I guess if people think their going to be self-quarantined for a couple weeks..?

I agree that we are in a panic mode.  I keep disbelieving what I am seeing with all the cancellations of events and work activities.  Yes there is a little more risk for older people with underlying conditions, but it is still a flu and the cases are still on the small side. Some precautions are beneficial, but it is like the world is going to shut down for a month.  Let's get a little sanity back.

Yes, I don't get the toilet paper issue, the virus does not cause diarrhea.  

thistlintom posted:

I agree that we are in a panic mode.  I keep disbelieving what I am seeing with all the cancellations of events and work activities.  Yes there is a little more risk for older people with underlying conditions, but it is still a flu and the cases are still on the small side. Some precautions are beneficial, but it is like the world is going to shut down for a month.  Let's get a little sanity back.

Wow, just wow. Is this what they tell you on Fox State News? The flu has vaccines, while not perfect, they can reduce the number of deaths and lessen the severity of the some flues. There is also Tamiflu that can help. Do you understand the difference between .1% and 1%? The moron in chief doesn't. In addition no expert is calling this the "flu" because it's not.

I've asked this on another site with deniers who blame the media and "mass hysteria" to give a number of deaths that would cause them to change their minds. Do you have a number?

Last edited by The Old Man

My older son's college just announced they are shutting down for the rest of the semester and will only do virtual classes.  But now he has to get on a plane to go up there to move his stuff out of campus housing.

Younger son's high school just announced they are shutting down on Monday and going to virtual classes until at least April 6th.

Alterra and Vail Mountain Resorts shut down all ski slopes effective today.  I just had friends here for a long weekend and they just made getting their skiing in.  There must have been a bunch of people who traveled to the ski slopes only to see them shut down.  I would think the risk of transmission is low when skiing.

I also see stores are reducing their hours being open.  You can see why people may think they have to hoard items, worrying about future shut downs.

Yes, hoarders are selfish, but I believe it gives them a sense of control in an otherwise uncontrollable situation.   The march of the virus can't be stopped, but if you can stock up on toilet paper and hand sanitizers, you feel like you are accomplishing something.

I'm not condoning it.  I just understand the why...

Last edited by Rothko

I actually think hoarders are the least of the TP issue.  Do you guys think buying 1 giant package or 2 at Costco is hoarding?  It’s just simple supply and demand.  In normal times, each household replenishes  their TP supply at different days of the month, allowing the store to buy more and restock the shelves.  What happens when ten thousand households in a 5 mile radius decide to replenish their TP at the same time?

irwin posted:

We've been back from our cruise since 3/1. No symptoms.  Don't worry...you can't catch anything from reading this.  Check out information on the 2009 Swine Flu epidemic on your internet. Pretty interesting to see how many people infected, died, etc., the response, how it compares, etc.

 

You realize you have still have it and be infectious without having any symptoms. That's what is crazy about this virus.

mimik posted:
irwin posted:

We've been back from our cruise since 3/1. No symptoms.  Don't worry...you can't catch anything from reading this.  Check out information on the 2009 Swine Flu epidemic on your internet. Pretty interesting to see how many people infected, died, etc., the response, how it compares, etc.

 

You realize you have still have it and be infectious without having any symptoms. That's what is crazy about this virus.

I'm not sure what you can learn from the Swine Flu. Its death rate was .02%. It appears Coronavirus is at least .1% perhaps higher.

Uncommon times for sure.

Personally, I cancelled a Vegas trip for my son's bachelor party. I know you are wondering why I was going but we were going to play Shadow Creek and eat at some high end restaurants before the other young guys were coming out (and I went home). I had my annual DC Legislative conference called, no biggie. The heartbreaking thing is a planned April 25th wedding for my son which will probably have to be moved. Also, a meeting in Switzerland in which I planned to visit Northern Italy is absolutely off even if not cancelled.

I am staying home as much as possible. I can work from home and the only thing I cannot do is meet which is obviously off the table. Currently, my business is like a hurricane or bad weather event, people stocking up from the grocery stores. Guessing a decrease in sales for the coming weeks.

With all of that, I still consider myself very fortunate. As for the naysayers criticizing every move made, no one politician is capable of managing an entire system to deal with this pandemic. History proves this. Designing a large system to distribute and execute is way harder than the average person thinks. Hopefully the lessons learned from this one will make the next one easier. Take care and stay safe.

 

 

scbeerman 

With all of that, I still consider myself very fortunate. As for the naysayers criticizing every move made, no one politician is capable of managing an entire system to deal with this pandemic. History proves this. Designing a large system to distribute and execute is way harder than the average person thinks. Hopefully the lessons learned from this one will make the next one easier. Take care and stay safe.

 

 

I hope you're not making some bizarre attempt at defending the Idiot in Chief by invoking a straw man argument. His thousands of lies in the last 3 years means he has no credibility now. His happy talk for the last month, while not accepting reality, has not been helpful and caused serious delays. His surrounding himself with sycophants and yes-men has also not helped the situation. He is simply reaping what he sowed and deserves all the scorn that gets heaped on him.

"No one could do this perfectly" used as an excuse for disbanding the nation's pandemic team, taking no responsibility, having a grotesquely incompetent testing system, lacking any federal instruction until it was basically too late, pretending it would all go away, repeatedly lying about the accessibility and timelines of tests, vaccines, and the like...

 

Sure, no one could get a 100% or even a 97%.  But that isn't an excuse for an utterly failing grade.

Canceled a ski trip to steamboat. VRBO refused to issue a refund for our condo at the instruction of the seller. Called AMEX and got them to do a charge back. Refund already credited. Never use VRBO. 

 

Gonna be a crappy next 4-8 weeks. Kids at home. Mom and and dads need to work. This is going to be messy. Expecting things everywhere to lockdown like SF just did. 

I try to use this forum as a happy place. It started with learning wine, and you guys taught me a lot, and then writing about my passions of college football and golf. I know that political discourse on forums will not change any opinions so I do not try.

That said, certainly mistakes were made and I am not excusing any elected official. I would make the same comment of the difficulty of establishing and executing a system no matter who is in office. The one thing that any elected official cannot accomplish is to alter human nature, or bluntly, cure stupidity. That is my final take on the matter.

 

scbeerman posted:

That said, certainly mistakes were made and I am not excusing any elected official. I would make the same comment of the difficulty of establishing and executing a system no matter who is in office. The one thing that any elected official cannot accomplish is to alter human nature, or bluntly, cure stupidity. That is my final take on the matter.

 

The one thing a stupid elected official (the nitwit in the WH) cannot accomplish is cure his own stupidity. Think how much time was wasted while he and Fox State News downplayed the seriousness of the virus.

As recently as last night, "The United States will be powerfully supporting those industries, like Airlines and others, that are particularly affected by the Chinese Virus." A soupcon of racism for his ignorant base. It must be killing him not to be able to have any of his (as Bill Maher called it) "Daddy needs some love" rallies.

Last edited by The Old Man

At least our golf club was open and I could play a round.  I sure hope it stays open, its about the only thing that is allowed these days.  The clubhouse is limiting the number of people in the grill, so we couldn't get together after the round as normally we do.

The courses were fairly empty, we get a lot of people who travel and since no one is travelling, no one is playing.

Another hero of the Trump crowd, Devin Nunes yesterday, "There's a lot of concerns with the economy here, because people are scared to go out. But I will just say, one of the things you can do, if you're healthy, you and your family, it's a great time to just go out, go to a local restaurant, likely you can get in, get in easily. Let's not hurt the working people in this country that are relying on wages and tips to keep their small business going."

The Old Man posted:

Another hero of the Trump crowd, Devin Nunes yesterday, "There's a lot of concerns with the economy here, because people are scared to go out. But I will just say, one of the things you can do, if you're healthy, you and your family, it's a great time to just go out, go to a local restaurant, likely you can get in, get in easily. Let's not hurt the working people in this country that are relying on wages and tips to keep their small business going."

Blood is going to be on their hands. 

There are two ways to deal with this: vigorous, streamlined, high-volume testing; and universal near shelter-in-place  for non-essentials. Other countries managed to do the first and we failed at it. So we have to do the second and yet 🐮 boy Nunes and the rest of the R elites are screwing that one up, too. 

Canadian border is now shut down with the exception of goods coming/going to and from the US. In Montreal pretty much everything has been shut down for several days including bars and restaurants. Today they are cutting public transit which makes sense since few people are out anyway. Ski hills are closed.

You'll find me in my wine cellar.

First death in Maryland. A guy in his 60's, said to have underlying medical conditions, whatever that means.  Meanwhile, our Republican governor, who didn't vote for Trump, was on MSNBC.  Check this out:

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost...stake-070311672.html

Gov. Hogan has issued orders to prevent evictions during this crisis, to prevent utility companies from cutting off service, including phone and internet, for non-payment, and several other humanitarian things.  I hope he runs for President in 2024.

I get bending the curve and providing some restraint from normal activities.  I also believe that shutting down the economy for several months is an overreaction.  Masses of people partying on the beach is a little much right now.  There can be a balance between two extremes.   We should try to do what we can to maintain the economy while taking precautions, especially with the elderly.

We have already had 10,000 deaths from the flu this year and have had much higher rates in other years.  In 2017 we had 80,000 people in the US die from the flu.  So far  the total number of deaths from the Wuhan virus is around 8,700, with about half being in China.  In the US, there have been about 100 deaths from the virus. Cases in South Korea have been declining.

Do I think there has been an overreaction and panic with the virus?  Yes, but I also believe we should take some precautions.  Interestingly, from various comments I have seen, it seems the older generation is less panicked about this situation and think that we should take moderate steps in preventing spreading the virus to the elderly and medically compromised people.  

billhike posted:
  • Several of us have asked you after you’ve posted what your trigger (number of deaths) would be for enacting serious preventive measures. I believe you’ve always avoided responding. Care to at this point?

Why the constant flu comparisons? 

His hero and his "news" outlet told him this was significant. It's really unbelievable people are still trotting out that meaningless fact. As I posted earlier even Fox "News" is starting to get the seriousness of this. Of course he won't answer the simple question of when he'll take this seriously. Now he's all over the place: Sure he, "get[s] bending the curve and providing some restraint from normal activities." But then, "Masses of people partying on the beach is a little much right now.  There can be a balance between two extremes." Perhaps this is a number that TT could give us. How many people partying on the beach is too much? 

"Do I think there has been an overreaction and panic with the virus?  Yes, but I also believe we should take some precautions."

How about following the CDC guidelines?

Last edited by The Old Man
The Old Man posted:
robsutherland posted:

Why are some people calling it the "Wuhan virus"? It has a proper name, it has a common name. There is no place for a xenophobic name.

We're all better than this

I hope you're not including the bigot in chief who proudly calls it the "Chinese virus"--he's not.

Not sure he calls it the Chinese virus. He keeps saying it comes from somewhere called, Gyna? (J-eye-nuh) Isn't that part of a woman's nether regions?

In other news, yes, our bars and restaurants are closed here, too. Good thing I'm well stocked. However, I hear that they are on the verge of closing our borders to international travel. Purely selfish reason, but that will kill my annual trip to Puerto Vallarta next month, and I'm not guaranteed to recoup my losses if I cancel.

Last edited by mneeley490
mneeley490 posted:
The Old Man posted:
robsutherland posted:

Why are some people calling it the "Wuhan virus"? It has a proper name, it has a common name. There is no place for a xenophobic name.

We're all better than this

I hope you're not including the bigot in chief who proudly calls it the "Chinese virus"--he's not.

Not sure he calls it the Chinese virus.

He has said it repeatedly including today. Here is his big Magic Marker crossing off "Corona" and changing it to "Chinese." And yet there will still be millions who can't see this charlatan for what he is.

Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post via Getty Images

 

Well - no surprise, we have our first presumed positive case here in the Keys  (although the test was not back at last check)

Given how fast things usually spread here, I am sure there are and will be many more coming soon.  Plenty of people still acting fairly normal - I am a tennis player and have told all my people that I am done until things return to normal.  The City tennis courts are closed.  The County owned tennis courts are still open and they were full when I jogged by this morning - people acting as if nothing was going on.  

napacat posted:
patespo1 posted:

All govt officials that sold stock, because they were briefed on how bad this was going to be, prior to alerting the American public, should be jailed.  Regardless of party (although it appears right now it's just the GOP)

Add Diane Feinstein.  But I agree...really bad.

Of course the difference, which I'm sure Fox "News" didn't tell you, is her money in a blind trust she doesn't manage. She also didn't attend the Jan. 24th briefing which, interesting enough, contradicted the Foolish One's happy talk (which continued for weeks losing the US precious time.) Nappy, you really need to switch channels occasionally.

Last edited by The Old Man

I am a tennis player too and I think it sucks that public and private tennis courts in Dade county are closed. Tennis and golf are outdoor activities where you can easily practice social distancing and as long as you don’t share racquets, shake hands or kiss the opponent you would be fine. 

Although I acknowledge the seriousness of the situation I believe most people have overreacted. Watching the empty shelves at grocery stores makes no sense. Food, water and toilet paper aren’t likely to run away. Roads, power and internet will not be compromised. As the test for the virus is more widely used the numerator will be much larger than the denominator (deaths)

New York, California, Italy and Spain have an explanation of why they are so screwed up.

bottom line re open tennis and golf, people need to decompress. Practice social distancing, don’t share clubs or racquets. Elderly with multiple comorbidities or/and immunodeficiency stay home. Drink plenty of wine, eat well, take advantage of this downtime. 

The Old Man posted:
billhike posted:

Shelter In Place goes into effect tomorrow evening in Illinois. Personally little to no change for me beyond what this week has been. My employer remains fully operational as we aren’t deemed “non-essential”.

I knew those years as head salesman for that toilet paper company would pay off for you one day. 

Good one. 

I think it is well reported that reasons Italy has such problems is the fact that they have an older population, high cigarette use, and young people who live with parents and grandparents.  
same with Spain  

when they say that people who have died had “ preexisting medical issues” or “underlying medical conditions “ what exactly does that mean? Hypertension?  Cholesterol issues? Diabetes? Or is it just lung conditions and immune disorders?

The lack of testing is a real tragedy.  I have a friend who was in Spain and flew back about a week ago and self-isolated.  She's now exhibiting symptoms of COVID-19, as is her roommate who was on the trip.  She can't get a test because there are none available in our county.  Our state's website says there's only 34 confirmed cases in Palm Beach County, but they've only done 79 tests!!  I assume that the number is much larger.

I tried out a grocery delivery service for my elderly parents yesterday and it worked out really well.  Ordered a whole bunch of stuff, and it was delivered to their front door in about three hours.

Tidbits

I have walked 9 holes Thursday and 18 yesterday using a combo of a push cart or putting my bag on a cart and walking. Both of my courses are not really walking courses but I am surprisingly not as tired as anticipated. I am hitting a lot of balls on the range.

Conference calls are my life now. One organization that I am in is a group of business owners almost all of which are tourist related. It was sad listening to their current situation. Thankfully my business has continued at a reasonable level and I am not seeking a loan. I kept that fact to myself during the call.

Finally, we encountered a doctor on the golf course yesterday. She stated that the reason our county (Georgetown SC) has not had any confirmed cases is that virtually no tests have been done here.

irwin posted:

I think it is well reported that reasons Italy has such problems is the fact that they have an older population, high cigarette use, and young people who live with parents and grandparents.  
same with Spain  

when they say that people who have died had “ preexisting medical issues” or “underlying medical conditions “ what exactly does that mean? Hypertension?  Cholesterol issues? Diabetes? Or is it just lung conditions and immune disorders?

I believe the big issues are lung conditions and compromised or weakened immune systems.  Elderly people's immunity levels decline over time, so that is one reason they are at risk, and those with cancer likely have lower immunity levels also.

Supposedly in northern Italy there are thousands of Chinese workers from the Wuhan area that work in Chinese factories making leather goods.  That may be one reason why Italy got hit early.

irwin posted:

eople who have died had “ preexisting medical issues” or “underlying medical conditions “ what exactly does that mean? Hypertension?  Cholesterol issues? Diabetes? Or is it just lung conditions and immune disorders?

Here you go, right from the CDC:

"Older adults and people of any age who have serious underlying medical conditions may be at higher risk for more serious complications from COVID-19. Based upon available information to date, those most at risk include

People 65 years and older
People who live in a nursing home or long-term care facility
People of any age with the following underlying medical conditions, particularly those that are not well controlled
Chronic lung disease or asthma
Congestive heart failure or coronary artery disease
Diabetes
Neurologic conditions that weaken ability to cough
Weakened immune system
Chemotherapy or radiation for cancer (currently or in recent past)
Sickle cell anemia
Chronic kidney disease requiring dialysis
Cirrhosis of the liver
Lack of spleen or a spleen that doesn’t function correctly
Extreme obesity (body mass index [BMI] >40)
People who are pregnant"

 

jburman82 posted:

Canceled a ski trip to steamboat. VRBO refused to issue a refund for our condo at the instruction of the seller. Called AMEX and got them to do a charge back. Refund already credited. Never use VRBO. 

 

 

I guarantee you , no matter what you lose or may lose on a single booking, it is exponentially worse for us hosts.  AirBNB and VRBO are kicking us to the curb, and in one concrete instance (likely many more), they are telling customers disinformation (i.e. told a customer that we had refused a cancellation/refund when we had a) not received a penny of the payment and b) ok'd the cancellation.  It is shady all around with them, no help on the phone or on hlep chats, and likley no mortgage forgiveness.  We are truly on our own.  It will eat through our liquid capital mighty quickly and if we need to, last case, dip into depressed 401ks or TSP plans.

Despite this, we are better off than most as my wife is off with full pay (teacher) and I am working remotely.  Doubly fortunate, I am switching careers from the construction industry, which is not far from a collapse (albeit, no where near as severe as the service sector), to the defense industry, a critical industry and a contract that stipulates tele-work is allowed.

More importantly is the health and safety of my family. My son has mild asthma, and i couldn't care less about losing a house if something were to happen to him (or my daughter or wife).  I will be able to buy another house, but not another child.

I cancelled my trip to Puerto Vallarta yesterday, when the border was closed. We were supposed to leave in 30 days. Ended up getting a full refund on the resort from Travelocity (which surprised me), although the airfare thru Alaska is now sitting in my "travel wallet", instead of earning interest back in my account. But I can live with that.

I do feel for the many friends we've made in PV over the years. Tourism is probably 90% of their economy. 

jabe11 posted:
jburman82 posted:

Canceled a ski trip to steamboat. VRBO refused to issue a refund for our condo at the instruction of the seller. Called AMEX and got them to do a charge back. Refund already credited. Never use VRBO. 

 

 

I guarantee you , no matter what you lose or may lose on a single booking, it is exponentially worse for us hosts.  AirBNB and VRBO are kicking us to the curb, and in one concrete instance (likely many more), they are telling customers disinformation (i.e. told a customer that we had refused a cancellation/refund when we had a) not received a penny of the payment and b) ok'd the cancellation.  It is shady all around with them, no help on the phone or on hlep chats, and likley no mortgage forgiveness.  We are truly on our own.  It will eat through our liquid capital mighty quickly and if we need to, last case, dip into depressed 401ks or TSP plans.

Despite this, we are better off than most as my wife is off with full pay (teacher) and I am working remotely.  Doubly fortunate, I am switching careers from the construction industry, which is not far from a collapse (albeit, no where near as severe as the service sector), to the defense industry, a critical industry and a contract that stipulates tele-work is allowed.

More importantly is the health and safety of my family. My son has mild asthma, and i couldn't care less about losing a house if something were to happen to him (or my daughter or wife).  I will be able to buy another house, but not another child.

Best of luck to you and your family, Jabe11.

jabe11 posted:
jburman82 posted:

Canceled a ski trip to steamboat. VRBO refused to issue a refund for our condo at the instruction of the seller. Called AMEX and got them to do a charge back. Refund already credited. Never use VRBO. 

 

 

I guarantee you , no matter what you lose or may lose on a single booking, it is exponentially worse for us hosts.  AirBNB and VRBO are kicking us to the curb, and in one concrete instance (likely many more), they are telling customers disinformation (i.e. told a customer that we had refused a cancellation/refund when we had a) not received a penny of the payment and b) ok'd the cancellation.  It is shady all around with them, no help on the phone or on hlep chats, and likley no mortgage forgiveness.  We are truly on our own.  It will eat through our liquid capital mighty quickly and if we need to, last case, dip into depressed 401ks or TSP plans.

Despite this, we are better off than most as my wife is off with full pay (teacher) and I am working remotely.  Doubly fortunate, I am switching careers from the construction industry, which is not far from a collapse (albeit, no where near as severe as the service sector), to the defense industry, a critical industry and a contract that stipulates tele-work is allowed.

More importantly is the health and safety of my family. My son has mild asthma, and i couldn't care less about losing a house if something were to happen to him (or my daughter or wife).  I will be able to buy another house, but not another child.

Jabe, I hope you and your family stay well. I have no ill will towards the owners. I get it they are screwed too. This has just taught me a lesson to use Marriott or Hilton where I have status and got refunds for trips with a simple phone call. Sometimes bigger is better.

Last edited by jburman82
jcocktosten posted:

Anyone else in Florida, seen the pictures of the boaters/rafters partying it up at Haulover and other sandbars?

Haven't seen it, but I am not surprised.  Florida has its more than fair share of morons and idiots.

I went to Publix for the first time since this all started and it was very discomforting being amongst so many people.  I tried to keep my distance, but still, there were people everywhere.  The interesting part was looking at how many elderly people there were, and thinking that if the virus infects them, they are really going to be in trouble.

Rothko posted:

I went to Publix for the first time since this all started and it was very discomforting being amongst so many people.  I tried to keep my distance, but still, there were people everywhere.  The interesting part was looking at how many elderly people there were, and thinking that if the virus infects them, they are really going to be in trouble.

Your grocery stores haven't implemented a special time for seniors only? Up here the first hour upon opening is reserved for them. Same in Massachusetts, at least in the area my parents live in.

steve8 posted:
Rothko posted:

I went to Publix for the first time since this all started and it was very discomforting being amongst so many people.  I tried to keep my distance, but still, there were people everywhere.  The interesting part was looking at how many elderly people there were, and thinking that if the virus infects them, they are really going to be in trouble.

Your grocery stores haven't implemented a special time for seniors only? Up here the first hour upon opening is reserved for them. Same in Massachusetts, at least in the area my parents live in.

They have implemented senior-only times for the stores.  But remember, I'm living in Florida, where we have tons of the elderly.  If they all went to the grocery store only during the senior only hour, the place would be jammed.

irwin posted:

I figured something out.  The state with the most severe coronavirus issue is California, land of avocado, fruit, jogging, fresh food and good wine.  The last state to get a case was West Virginia.

Therefore, I conclude that obesity, fried food and beer are protective against this disease.

Great news! I should be immune, then!

thistlintom posted:
irwin posted:

Senator Rand Paul has tested positive and says that he has no symptoms.  So, if he has no symptoms, how come he got tested? Is this one of the many privileges one gets as a US Senator?

probably since they vote on the nations issues.  Also, he had part of a lung removed recently, so I would say he is at risk.  

Or he is just a hypocrite 

thistlintom posted:

So he shouldn't have been tested so that he could infect the entire Senate.   Right.  Lets just shut down the government while we are at it.

First of all this idiot after testing was still walking around like everything was normal. That includes lunches and meetings with fellow senators and even time in the senator's gym--which I don't even understand why it was still open--including taking laps in the pool.

The New York Times, "Last week, he was one of only three senators to vote against a multibillion-dollar rescue bill to help fight the coronavirus because its costs had not been paid for and would contribute to the national debt."

A hypocrite and a pig. No surprise Republicans have taken this less seriously, mirroring the Great Leader's approach to this for weeks. While Fox state news did everything they could to promote these untruths Which is especially alarming because the median age of their viewers is 65. So while you're doing everything to cover up the president's inability to take this issue seriously you're also making a major at-risk group complacent. Now of course that the president appears to have woken up Fox is is trying to spin the narrative that he was always on top this crisis. Baloney.

Last edited by The Old Man

The fact that congress still feels the need to hold in person debates and votes is a joke. Parliament re-convening in Canada on Tuesday to pass a stimulus package, but query why these jackasses all need to get in a room. Board meetings, shareholder meetings etc all are being held remotely  or via video, but to maintain “the integrity of governmental institutions (hahahahaha)” we need in person debates and votes.   Governmental logic. 

The Old Man posted:

I believe the US currently has half of all the world population that has tested positive. I can't believe the FL governor didn't close the beaches when the springbreakers were going wild; the local mayors had to do it.

According to the Johns Hopkin's Dashboard, there's 367,000 cases worldwide, and the US has 41,000, so that's much less than half.  But the trend for the US is looking terrible.  We are quickly about to overtake Italy and become the #2 country in the world, and we will soon thereafter become the #1.  I've been joking about it before, but it really is no laughing matter.  People, a lot and lot of people, are going to die in this country soon.  We can pray that warm weather will help stop the spread, we can pray that our scientists figure out an effective treatment that actually works, or we can just pray.  

(Sorry about the orientation)

You have got to me kidding me. This is an official government document from the CDC. FWIW the flip side just has the standard warnings about washing hands, social distancing etc. As the old folks used to say, the nerve!

 

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