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"Fans banned at Olympics; Tokyo under state of emergency."

This thing is far from over; it's getting worse here too. You can thank the Trumpublican (AKA the GQP) party for this. "Biden pushing a vaccine that is NOT FDA approved shows covid is a political tool used to control people. People have a choice, they don't need your medical brown shirts showing up at their door ordering vaccinations." Yep, she's still on that Nazi kick.

@csm posted:

Any fully-vaccinated Canadians looking at taking advantage of the quarantine "exemption", prepare for at least a 4-5 day quarantine while waiting for tests to be completed.  My wife returned from the US Monday night, presented her PCR test taken the same day, took her test at the border, and will not have the results back from the test that was taken at the border until Friday at the earliest.  The lab is able to return results within 24 hours (we know because we've been tested there 8 times between the two of us) when one pays for the test.  The government of course didn't even deliver the sample to the lab for 2 days, and is asking for a 48 hour turnaround on the tests even though they could be done in 24 hours per the guy at the lab.  No quarantine equals 5 day unnecessary quarantine in Canada.

Interesting. I've had to get tested a few times for various reasons. At my local clinic, the turnaround time is about 3 hours.

With all the news about the Delta variant, I haven't seen anything about previously infected Covid patients catching the Delta variant.  Has anyone seen anything about that?

If the Delta variant isn't causing new infections in previous patients, then we know that the old version of Covid grants immunity to Delta, and thus, the vaccines based on the old version do as well.

@Rothko posted:

With all the news about the Delta variant, I haven't seen anything about previously infected Covid patients catching the Delta variant.  Has anyone seen anything about that?

No. but I have this: I know the statistics (and I still feel good about them) but my ex-wife's close friend, who was 2-dose vaccinated, spent time with someone not vaccinated. The unvaxed, who is 65, is on a ventilator and the friend, AND her 2-dose vaccinated roommate both discovered they had covid when they had mild flu symptoms. Neither of them is serious but both are still dealing with the illness.

This is greatly at the feet of the dumb-fucks, the majority which are Trumpanzies, who won't get vaccinated. What kind of people applaud and cheer when they hear the US is not meeting its vaccination goals?

@The Old Man posted:

No. but I have this: I know the statistics (and I still feel good about them) but my ex-wife's close friend, who was 2-dose vaccinated, spent time with someone not vaccinated. The unvaxed, who is 65, is on a ventilator and the friend, AND her 2-dose vaccinated roommate both discovered they had covid when they had mild flu symptoms. Neither of them is serious but both are still dealing with the illness.

This is greatly at the feet of the dumb-fucks, the majority which are Trumpanzies, who won't get vaccinated. What kind of people applaud and cheer when they hear the US is not meeting its vaccination goals?

99% of people dying are unvaccinated.  The numbers and science don't lie.  The sad this is, like you stated above, the ramifications aren't isolated to only the unvaccinated. 

QAnencephalics are everywhere spreading rotten advice...facts are

1-Vaccine is working. In Va, 99.3% of new infections last 2 months are in unvaccinated. 67% of state has been partially [1 of 2 shots] or completely vaccinated. We are seeing the trial data play out LIVE!

2- Vaccine is safe. 1/1M deaths w vaccine; 2% deaths from COVID or 20,000/1M w/o vaccine. Doesn't even factor in those who survive w persistent post infectious disease or morbidity. Nor the more pernicious variants that will keep on coming as mutations spring up from the infected.



Do the right thing for you, your loved ones, and society!  Get the FREE vaccine

I just read that 20% of the current Covid cases are arising in Florida.  20% of the national cases in one single state.

I don't know where in Florida:  the southern cities vs. the north part of the state or the panhandle.

In any event, the Governor has made it clear there will be no mitigation orders of any kind.  Covid - Delta variant will just run its course.

@Rothko posted:

I just read that 20% of the current Covid cases are arising in Florida.  20% of the national cases in one single state.

I don't know where in Florida:  the southern cities vs. the north part of the state or the panhandle.

In any event, the Governor has made it clear there will be no mitigation orders of any kind.  Covid - Delta variant will just run its course.

20% in Florida as you say.  Top 4 are Arkansas, Florida, Missouri and Nevada.  Cases are rising in ALL 50 states at this time.  LA county will reinstate their indoor mask mandate this Saturday at midnight.  Vegas is now asking everyone to wear a mask indoors including casinos.  Not sure if it is mandatory...yet.

@The Old Man posted:

From the LA Times: "Eric Clapton is staying the course with his beliefs about COVID-19 vaccines: He recently announced that he won’t be performing 'where there is a discriminated audience present.' That means the guitar hero won’t play concerts in venues that require ticket-holders to be vaccinated.

What a tool.

they should honestly lock down.  everyone. 2 weeks but that's too hard, which in that case, i don't mind if no one else gets entertainment either

I do alot of arbitrations these days.  Had a case yesterday where the Plaintiff was in my office with her lawyer. They were both vaccinated. The defense attorney was by zoom, though he is vaccinated.  There was a witness called to testify by zoom, the daughter of the Plaintiff.  This witness works at a local hospital here as a labor and delivery nurse.  She is NOT vaccinated!  It is hard for me to assess her testimony when I think that since she is not vaccinated, she is an idiot.  I pity the parents of the newborns who have to encounter her.

I honestly don't understand the CDC. 

Why even bother flipflopping on masks.  Just say masks wearing helps.  end of story.  It's a guidance.

And all these people saying masks don't work.  It's simple.  If a mask is 100% effective, you'd die of suffocation.

But any physical barrier certainly reduces the amount of spread.  Again simple physical property of materials.  Someone farts real bad in the room, you cover your nose with your hand or arm.  Does it stop every one of the methane/sulfure chemcials?  no, but does it help ? yes.

just like putting headphones on.  Does it eliminate all sound?  No, does it muffle it?  yea.

The challenge is that some states have banned statewide or local government mask mandates.  So individual companies, like grocery chains or store chains, will have to make decisions about whether to institute a new mask policy or not.  I suspect most will not: it just opens up too many cans of worms with enforceability.

Many vaccinated people don't want to wear masks because 1) they are vaccinated and protected from severe Covid, hospitalization and death; and 2) most of the people they would be protecting are persons who've made a conscious choice not to get vaccinated and protected.  These are the same people that back at the beginning of the pandemic were going around without masks and generally putting the now-vaccinated people at risk back then.

I hear experts saying: "you wear the mask to protect others".  So why should a vaccinated person feel any obligation to wear a mask to protect someone who refused to wear a mask to protect them?

I understand that there are still children and some immunocompromised people who can't get the vaccine.  And of course, every non-vaccinated person who gets sick runs the risk of creating a variant that the vaccines might not work against.  If you were conscientious enough to wear a mask before and get the vaccine when it came out, you'll probably be conscientious enough to wear one again.  But you won't get the same consideration from most of the non-vaccinated folks.

Last edited by Rothko
@Rothko posted:

The challenge is that some states have banned statewide or local government mask mandates.  So individual companies, like grocery chains or store chains, will have to make decisions about whether to institute a new mask policy or not.  I suspect most will not: it just opens up too many cans of worms with enforceability.

Many vaccinated people don't want to wear masks because 1) they are vaccinated and protected from severe Covid, hospitalization and death; and 2) most of the people they would be protecting are persons who've made a conscious choice not to get vaccinated and protected.  These are the same people that back at the beginning of the pandemic were going around without masks and generally putting the now-vaccinated people at risk back then.

I hear experts saying: "you wear the mask to protect others".  So why should a vaccinated person feel any obligation to wear a mask to protect someone who refused to wear a mask to protect them?

I understand that there are still children and some immunocompromised people who can't get the vaccine.  And of course, every non-vaccinated person who gets sick runs the risk of creating a variant that the vaccines might not work against.  If you were conscientious enough to wear a mask before and get the vaccine when it came out, you'll probably be conscientious enough to wear one again.  But you won't get the same consideration from most of the non-vaccinated folks.

states can't ban individual companies.  It is/has been a private industry choice.  State have banned state controlled entities from mandating masks requirements.

The disease is quite simple.  Everyone thinks in binary terms.  It's not.  you can get degrees of severity.  The research still hasn't definitively proven that vaccinated folks won't shed the new Delta variant even if they're protected.  It's like how 30% of folks who are vaccinated with the pfizer vaccine still end up getting covid.

But what can one expect, half of this country doesnt understand nuance and thinking in non binary terms.

I have zero sympathy for the many dummies amongst us who willfully choose not to get vaccinated when they are physically capable of receiving the jabs.

But let’s not lose sight of the fact that wearing a mask is doing your part to protect folks who work in retail, food service, healthcare and other industries where they get exposed to dozens or hundreds of people as part of their jobs.  Yes, it’s the unvaccinated that create by far the largest risk of exposure to these folks.  But walk in their shoes for a second, and you’ll understand their peace of mind goes up considerably when they interact with someone wearing a mask versus an encounter with someone not wearing one.  

Just read an interesting article that talks about the fact that the Delta variant infections in places like the UK, the Netherlands, and India all seem to have peaked quickly and are going down fast.  There is a possibility that the same thing could happen here in the US.

The reason is that there are so many US residents with antibodies now, either from prior infection or from vaccines, that the Delta variant is going to find it difficult to locate un-infected or un-vaccinated people soon.  It's basically very quickly burning through available hosts and will soon have a harder time locating people to infect. 

The idea is founded on the numbers of previously infected people (which is very likely much higher than reported), the number of known vaccinations in the US, and the likelihood that many more people are probably infected with the Delta variant than what is being officially reported (testing levels in the US have dropped considerably, so Delta may be more widespread than previously thought).

It isn't herd immunity, but it may be close.  We will have to see if the Covid infection numbers start dropping in the next week or two, or if they keep going up.

@Insight posted:

I have zero sympathy for the many dummies amongst us who willfully choose not to get vaccinated when they are physically capable of receiving the jabs.

But let’s not lose sight of the fact that wearing a mask is doing your part to protect folks who work in retail, food service, healthcare and other industries where they get exposed to dozens or hundreds of people as part of their jobs.  Yes, it’s the unvaccinated that create by far the largest risk of exposure to these folks.  But walk in their shoes for a second, and you’ll understand their peace of mind goes up considerably when they interact with someone wearing a mask versus an encounter with someone not wearing one.  

This is an excellent point, and also include kids under the age of 12 (like my youngest son) who are not yet eligible for the vaccine, as well as those unable to get the vaccine because of legitimate medical reasons. 

@Rothko posted:

Just read an interesting article that talks about the fact that the Delta variant infections in places like the UK, the Netherlands, and India all seem to have peaked quickly and are going down fast.  There is a possibility that the same thing could happen here in the US.

The reason is that there are so many US residents with antibodies now, either from prior infection or from vaccines, that the Delta variant is going to find it difficult to locate un-infected or un-vaccinated people soon.  It's basically very quickly burning through available hosts and will soon have a harder time locating people to infect.

The idea is founded on the numbers of previously infected people (which is very likely much higher than reported), the number of known vaccinations in the US, and the likelihood that many more people are probably infected with the Delta variant than what is being officially reported (testing levels in the US have dropped considerably, so Delta may be more widespread than previously thought).

It isn't herd immunity, but it may be close.  We will have to see if the Covid infection numbers start dropping in the next week or two, or if they keep going up.

Until it mutates amongst the unvaccinated and those who might have gotten the alpha variant back in feb but now no longer have enough antibodies to stave off a potential mutation from the delta variant. ie the epsilon variant

For a different perspective:

Posted on Business Insider:  "The president of the Philippines said he doesn't care if people who deny the coronavirus vaccine die from the virus. Rodrigo Duterte told a national address on Wednesday: "For those who do not want it, well, for all I care, you can die anytime." He also said he wants the police to restrict the movement of people who refuse coronavirus vaccines: "To those people who do not want to be vaccinated, I am telling you, don't go out of your house." "If you go out of your house, I will tell the police to return you to your home. You will be escorted back to your house because you are a walking spreader.""

Interestingly, only 6% of Filipinos are vaccinated.  Mostly due to supply chain problems.

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