billhike posted:
thistlintom posted:

This is what we are getting with the education of these young people?

It’s almost as if they’ve heard people say we are overreacting, and that the flu kills way more people.

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I get bending the curve and providing some restraint from normal activities.  I also believe that shutting down the economy for several months is an overreaction.  Masses of people partying on the beach is a little much right now.  There can be a balance between two extremes.   We should try to do what we can to maintain the economy while taking precautions, especially with the elderly.

We have already had 10,000 deaths from the flu this year and have had much higher rates in other years.  In 2017 we had 80,000 people in the US die from the flu.  So far  the total number of deaths from the Wuhan virus is around 8,700, with about half being in China.  In the US, there have been about 100 deaths from the virus. Cases in South Korea have been declining.

Do I think there has been an overreaction and panic with the virus?  Yes, but I also believe we should take some precautions.  Interestingly, from various comments I have seen, it seems the older generation is less panicked about this situation and think that we should take moderate steps in preventing spreading the virus to the elderly and medically compromised people.  

  • Several of us have asked you after you’ve posted what your trigger (number of deaths) would be for enacting serious preventive measures. I believe you’ve always avoided responding. Care to at this point?

Why the constant flu comparisons? 

Last edited by billhike
billhike posted:
  • Several of us have asked you after you’ve posted what your trigger (number of deaths) would be for enacting serious preventive measures. I believe you’ve always avoided responding. Care to at this point?

Why the constant flu comparisons? 

His hero and his "news" outlet told him this was significant. It's really unbelievable people are still trotting out that meaningless fact. As I posted earlier even Fox "News" is starting to get the seriousness of this. Of course he won't answer the simple question of when he'll take this seriously. Now he's all over the place: Sure he, "get[s] bending the curve and providing some restraint from normal activities." But then, "Masses of people partying on the beach is a little much right now.  There can be a balance between two extremes." Perhaps this is a number that TT could give us. How many people partying on the beach is too much? 

"Do I think there has been an overreaction and panic with the virus?  Yes, but I also believe we should take some precautions."

How about following the CDC guidelines?

Last edited by The Old Man

Key West - today's announcement all attractions and activities that promote congregation of 10 or more people are closed.  Including gyms, theaters, museums, touring vehicles, charter boats etc.

With the Clueless one in chief declaring himself a "war time president" I think we can step up to the plate and sacrifice some the simple comforts of home like they did during WWII. But this is really too much, "Netflix and other streaming platforms urged to switch to SD during COVID-19 crisis."

Why are some people calling it the "Wuhan virus"? It has a proper name, it has a common name. There is no place for a xenophobic name.

We're all better than this

robsutherland posted:

Why are some people calling it the "Wuhan virus"? It has a proper name, it has a common name. There is no place for a xenophobic name.

We're all better than this

I hope you're not including the bigot in chief who proudly calls it the "Chinese virus"--he's not.

Regeneron to treat severely affected coronavirus patients this week in trial using its rheumatoid arthritis drug Kevzara as reported by MSNBC.

Per my original comment a few days ago I wanted to share this. 

The Old Man posted:
robsutherland posted:

Why are some people calling it the "Wuhan virus"? It has a proper name, it has a common name. There is no place for a xenophobic name.

We're all better than this

I hope you're not including the bigot in chief who proudly calls it the "Chinese virus"--he's not.

Not sure he calls it the Chinese virus. He keeps saying it comes from somewhere called, Gyna? (J-eye-nuh) Isn't that part of a woman's nether regions?

In other news, yes, our bars and restaurants are closed here, too. Good thing I'm well stocked. However, I hear that they are on the verge of closing our borders to international travel. Purely selfish reason, but that will kill my annual trip to Puerto Vallarta next month, and I'm not guaranteed to recoup my losses if I cancel.

Last edited by mneeley490
mneeley490 posted:
The Old Man posted:
robsutherland posted:

Why are some people calling it the "Wuhan virus"? It has a proper name, it has a common name. There is no place for a xenophobic name.

We're all better than this

I hope you're not including the bigot in chief who proudly calls it the "Chinese virus"--he's not.

Not sure he calls it the Chinese virus.

He has said it repeatedly including today. Here is his big Magic Marker crossing off "Corona" and changing it to "Chinese." And yet there will still be millions who can't see this charlatan for what he is.

Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post via Getty Images

 

Well - no surprise, we have our first presumed positive case here in the Keys  (although the test was not back at last check)

Given how fast things usually spread here, I am sure there are and will be many more coming soon.  Plenty of people still acting fairly normal - I am a tennis player and have told all my people that I am done until things return to normal.  The City tennis courts are closed.  The County owned tennis courts are still open and they were full when I jogged by this morning - people acting as if nothing was going on.  

All govt officials that sold stock, because they were briefed on how bad this was going to be, prior to alerting the American public, should be jailed.  Regardless of party (although it appears right now it's just the GOP)

patespo1 posted:

All govt officials that sold stock, because they were briefed on how bad this was going to be, prior to alerting the American public, should be jailed.  Regardless of party (although it appears right now it's just the GOP)

Add Diane Feinstein.  But I agree...really bad.

napacat posted:
patespo1 posted:

All govt officials that sold stock, because they were briefed on how bad this was going to be, prior to alerting the American public, should be jailed.  Regardless of party (although it appears right now it's just the GOP)

Add Diane Feinstein.  But I agree...really bad.

Of course the difference, which I'm sure Fox "News" didn't tell you, is her money in a blind trust she doesn't manage. She also didn't attend the Jan. 24th briefing which, interesting enough, contradicted the Foolish One's happy talk (which continued for weeks losing the US precious time.) Nappy, you really need to switch channels occasionally.

Last edited by The Old Man

Shelter In Place goes into effect tomorrow evening in Illinois. Personally little to no change for me beyond what this week has been. My employer remains fully operational as we aren’t deemed “non-essential”.

billhike posted:

Shelter In Place goes into effect tomorrow evening in Illinois. Personally little to no change for me beyond what this week has been. My employer remains fully operational as we aren’t deemed “non-essential”.

I knew those years as head salesman for that toilet paper company would pay off for you one day. 

Last edited by The Old Man

I am a tennis player too and I think it sucks that public and private tennis courts in Dade county are closed. Tennis and golf are outdoor activities where you can easily practice social distancing and as long as you don’t share racquets, shake hands or kiss the opponent you would be fine. 

Although I acknowledge the seriousness of the situation I believe most people have overreacted. Watching the empty shelves at grocery stores makes no sense. Food, water and toilet paper aren’t likely to run away. Roads, power and internet will not be compromised. As the test for the virus is more widely used the numerator will be much larger than the denominator (deaths)

New York, California, Italy and Spain have an explanation of why they are so screwed up.

bottom line re open tennis and golf, people need to decompress. Practice social distancing, don’t share clubs or racquets. Elderly with multiple comorbidities or/and immunodeficiency stay home. Drink plenty of wine, eat well, take advantage of this downtime. 

The Old Man posted:
billhike posted:

Shelter In Place goes into effect tomorrow evening in Illinois. Personally little to no change for me beyond what this week has been. My employer remains fully operational as we aren’t deemed “non-essential”.

I knew those years as head salesman for that toilet paper company would pay off for you one day. 

Good one. 

I have to say with tennis the shared balls can transmit no? Your a doctor you know better than me but I was usoig wipes at every chageover

I think it is well reported that reasons Italy has such problems is the fact that they have an older population, high cigarette use, and young people who live with parents and grandparents.  
same with Spain  

when they say that people who have died had “ preexisting medical issues” or “underlying medical conditions “ what exactly does that mean? Hypertension?  Cholesterol issues? Diabetes? Or is it just lung conditions and immune disorders?

The lack of testing is a real tragedy.  I have a friend who was in Spain and flew back about a week ago and self-isolated.  She's now exhibiting symptoms of COVID-19, as is her roommate who was on the trip.  She can't get a test because there are none available in our county.  Our state's website says there's only 34 confirmed cases in Palm Beach County, but they've only done 79 tests!!  I assume that the number is much larger.

I tried out a grocery delivery service for my elderly parents yesterday and it worked out really well.  Ordered a whole bunch of stuff, and it was delivered to their front door in about three hours.

Tidbits

I have walked 9 holes Thursday and 18 yesterday using a combo of a push cart or putting my bag on a cart and walking. Both of my courses are not really walking courses but I am surprisingly not as tired as anticipated. I am hitting a lot of balls on the range.

Conference calls are my life now. One organization that I am in is a group of business owners almost all of which are tourist related. It was sad listening to their current situation. Thankfully my business has continued at a reasonable level and I am not seeking a loan. I kept that fact to myself during the call.

Finally, we encountered a doctor on the golf course yesterday. She stated that the reason our county (Georgetown SC) has not had any confirmed cases is that virtually no tests have been done here.

irwin posted:

I think it is well reported that reasons Italy has such problems is the fact that they have an older population, high cigarette use, and young people who live with parents and grandparents.  
same with Spain  

when they say that people who have died had “ preexisting medical issues” or “underlying medical conditions “ what exactly does that mean? Hypertension?  Cholesterol issues? Diabetes? Or is it just lung conditions and immune disorders?

I believe the big issues are lung conditions and compromised or weakened immune systems.  Elderly people's immunity levels decline over time, so that is one reason they are at risk, and those with cancer likely have lower immunity levels also.

Supposedly in northern Italy there are thousands of Chinese workers from the Wuhan area that work in Chinese factories making leather goods.  That may be one reason why Italy got hit early.

irwin posted:

eople who have died had “ preexisting medical issues” or “underlying medical conditions “ what exactly does that mean? Hypertension?  Cholesterol issues? Diabetes? Or is it just lung conditions and immune disorders?

Here you go, right from the CDC:

"Older adults and people of any age who have serious underlying medical conditions may be at higher risk for more serious complications from COVID-19. Based upon available information to date, those most at risk include

People 65 years and older
People who live in a nursing home or long-term care facility
People of any age with the following underlying medical conditions, particularly those that are not well controlled
Chronic lung disease or asthma
Congestive heart failure or coronary artery disease
Diabetes
Neurologic conditions that weaken ability to cough
Weakened immune system
Chemotherapy or radiation for cancer (currently or in recent past)
Sickle cell anemia
Chronic kidney disease requiring dialysis
Cirrhosis of the liver
Lack of spleen or a spleen that doesn’t function correctly
Extreme obesity (body mass index [BMI] >40)
People who are pregnant"

 

jburman82 posted:

Canceled a ski trip to steamboat. VRBO refused to issue a refund for our condo at the instruction of the seller. Called AMEX and got them to do a charge back. Refund already credited. Never use VRBO. 

 

 

I guarantee you , no matter what you lose or may lose on a single booking, it is exponentially worse for us hosts.  AirBNB and VRBO are kicking us to the curb, and in one concrete instance (likely many more), they are telling customers disinformation (i.e. told a customer that we had refused a cancellation/refund when we had a) not received a penny of the payment and b) ok'd the cancellation.  It is shady all around with them, no help on the phone or on hlep chats, and likley no mortgage forgiveness.  We are truly on our own.  It will eat through our liquid capital mighty quickly and if we need to, last case, dip into depressed 401ks or TSP plans.

Despite this, we are better off than most as my wife is off with full pay (teacher) and I am working remotely.  Doubly fortunate, I am switching careers from the construction industry, which is not far from a collapse (albeit, no where near as severe as the service sector), to the defense industry, a critical industry and a contract that stipulates tele-work is allowed.

More importantly is the health and safety of my family. My son has mild asthma, and i couldn't care less about losing a house if something were to happen to him (or my daughter or wife).  I will be able to buy another house, but not another child.

I cancelled my trip to Puerto Vallarta yesterday, when the border was closed. We were supposed to leave in 30 days. Ended up getting a full refund on the resort from Travelocity (which surprised me), although the airfare thru Alaska is now sitting in my "travel wallet", instead of earning interest back in my account. But I can live with that.

I do feel for the many friends we've made in PV over the years. Tourism is probably 90% of their economy. 

jabe11 posted:
jburman82 posted:

Canceled a ski trip to steamboat. VRBO refused to issue a refund for our condo at the instruction of the seller. Called AMEX and got them to do a charge back. Refund already credited. Never use VRBO. 

 

 

I guarantee you , no matter what you lose or may lose on a single booking, it is exponentially worse for us hosts.  AirBNB and VRBO are kicking us to the curb, and in one concrete instance (likely many more), they are telling customers disinformation (i.e. told a customer that we had refused a cancellation/refund when we had a) not received a penny of the payment and b) ok'd the cancellation.  It is shady all around with them, no help on the phone or on hlep chats, and likley no mortgage forgiveness.  We are truly on our own.  It will eat through our liquid capital mighty quickly and if we need to, last case, dip into depressed 401ks or TSP plans.

Despite this, we are better off than most as my wife is off with full pay (teacher) and I am working remotely.  Doubly fortunate, I am switching careers from the construction industry, which is not far from a collapse (albeit, no where near as severe as the service sector), to the defense industry, a critical industry and a contract that stipulates tele-work is allowed.

More importantly is the health and safety of my family. My son has mild asthma, and i couldn't care less about losing a house if something were to happen to him (or my daughter or wife).  I will be able to buy another house, but not another child.

Best of luck to you and your family, Jabe11.

I figured something out.  The state with the most severe coronavirus issue is California, land of avocado, fruit, jogging, fresh food and good wine.  The last state to get a case was West Virginia.

Therefore, I conclude that obesity, fried food and beer are protective against this disease.

Rothko posted:

Hurray!  We are now in 3rd Place!!

Canada lagging far behind in 16th. In an effort to catch up I spent all day licking strangers.   

vint posted:
Rothko posted:

Hurray!  We are now in 3rd Place!!

Canada lagging far behind in 16th. In an effort to catch up I spent all day licking strangers.   

Good way to earn a few loonies, no?

jabe11 posted:
jburman82 posted:

Canceled a ski trip to steamboat. VRBO refused to issue a refund for our condo at the instruction of the seller. Called AMEX and got them to do a charge back. Refund already credited. Never use VRBO. 

 

 

I guarantee you , no matter what you lose or may lose on a single booking, it is exponentially worse for us hosts.  AirBNB and VRBO are kicking us to the curb, and in one concrete instance (likely many more), they are telling customers disinformation (i.e. told a customer that we had refused a cancellation/refund when we had a) not received a penny of the payment and b) ok'd the cancellation.  It is shady all around with them, no help on the phone or on hlep chats, and likley no mortgage forgiveness.  We are truly on our own.  It will eat through our liquid capital mighty quickly and if we need to, last case, dip into depressed 401ks or TSP plans.

Despite this, we are better off than most as my wife is off with full pay (teacher) and I am working remotely.  Doubly fortunate, I am switching careers from the construction industry, which is not far from a collapse (albeit, no where near as severe as the service sector), to the defense industry, a critical industry and a contract that stipulates tele-work is allowed.

More importantly is the health and safety of my family. My son has mild asthma, and i couldn't care less about losing a house if something were to happen to him (or my daughter or wife).  I will be able to buy another house, but not another child.

Jabe, I hope you and your family stay well. I have no ill will towards the owners. I get it they are screwed too. This has just taught me a lesson to use Marriott or Hilton where I have status and got refunds for trips with a simple phone call. Sometimes bigger is better.

Last edited by jburman82

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