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@bman posted:

Don't most people carry their phones when they leave their house?  And what else could be done to plug that gap?

They do.  But if you’re knowingly breaching quarantine, I suspect you would not.

Could adopt the approach in many other countries where if you leave the country, you quarantine in a hotel where you are monitored on your nickel.  And then test people.  Once you have a couple of negative tests, you can leave. Would certainly limit travel to what truly is essential.

@csm posted:

Was he required to download the app? If so, is he a Canadian citizen?  Also, is it the Covid-19 app many have downloaded or a quarantine specific one?  Haven’t heard or anyone else having to download any app to quarantine.  

Dual citizen, he was required to download and check in every morning certifying that he hadn't moved / left his place of quarantine and had no contact with anyone.

He used instacart for all his groceries which were left by the door and the same for ubereats etc.

Ontario’s Finance Minister is in St Lucia, Quebec’s deputy leader of the liberal party is in Barbados, former federal finance minister Bill Morneau got on a plane to somewhere warm on Boxing Day.  

But everyone else should stay home and socially distance because we’re all in this together right?  This is a special level of tone-deaf douchebaggery even insofar as government is concerned.

@csm posted:

Ontario’s Finance Minister is in St Lucia, Quebec’s deputy leader of the liberal party is in Barbados, former federal finance minister Bill Morneau got on a plane to somewhere warm on Boxing Day.  

But everyone else should stay home and socially distance because we’re all in this together right?  This is a special level of tone-deaf douchebaggery even insofar as government is concerned.

+1 Reminds me of a Jarvis Cocker song.

Last edited by steve8

One can go into a grocery store pretty much any day, and in Maryland, where we do not grow oranges or bananas ever, and in the winter months, very little other produce, the stores are filled with fresh fruits.  Strawberries, blueberries, apples, grapes from Chile, etc.

Let’s take bananas.  For our stores, they typically come from Costa Rica or Honduras.  Someone grows them, tends them, picks them, sticks them in shipping containers, ships them in bigger shipping containers.  They get to some port.  Someone unloads them into a truck. The truck drives around and distributes the crates of bananas to further distribution locations, and from there, they are taken to various stores.  Something like that. Every day.  Every single day.

So, explain to me why we are so far behind in the distribution of the vaccines?  In Israel, they have now vaccinated more than 7% of the population.  Here, it is under 1%.  Yes, they have fewer people and it’s a smaller country.  But they have fewer shippers, fewer distribution centers, etc.  Now, I know that the vaccines require certain conditions and special arrangements for shipping, but I suppose bananas do too.

A good friend of mine, who lives in Israel, same age as I, emailed me today.  He and his wife got their vaccines yesterday at their local health center in Jerusalem.  Neither is a “health care worker” and they aren’t in nursing homes or anything.

If we can ship and distribute fresh bananas from Costa Rica and Honduras every single day (and put a man on the moon) how come we can’t more quickly distribute the vaccines?

It’s not, as they say, rocket science.

@irwin posted:

One can go into a grocery store pretty much any day, and in Maryland, where we do not grow oranges or bananas ever, and in the winter months, very little other produce, the stores are filled with fresh fruits.  Strawberries, blueberries, apples, grapes from Chile, etc.

Let’s take bananas.  For our stores, they typically come from Costa Rica or Honduras.  Someone grows them, tends them, picks them, sticks them in shipping containers, ships them in bigger shipping containers.  They get to some port.  Someone unloads them into a truck. The truck drives around and distributes the crates of bananas to further distribution locations, and from there, they are taken to various stores.  Something like that. Every day.  Every single day.

So, explain to me why we are so far behind in the distribution of the vaccines?  In Israel, they have now vaccinated more than 7% of the population.  Here, it is under 1%.  Yes, they have fewer people and it’s a smaller country.  But they have fewer shippers, fewer distribution centers, etc.  Now, I know that the vaccines require certain conditions and special arrangements for shipping, but I suppose bananas do too.

A good friend of mine, who lives in Israel, same age as I, emailed me today.  He and his wife got their vaccines yesterday at their local health center in Jerusalem.  Neither is a “health care worker” and they aren’t in nursing homes or anything.

If we can ship and distribute fresh bananas from Costa Rica and Honduras every single day (and put a man on the moon) how come we can’t more quickly distribute the vaccines?

It’s not, as they say, rocket science.

My understanding is that when the federal government funded vaccine research they forgot to do planning for distribution. So while Trump says it's the states job to deliver the vaccines to their people, they can only do that once they actually get the vaccines from the feds.

I think that the way to get the vaccines into everyone's arms is not to use the local hospitals and local County health departments, but the large pharmacy chains, like CVS, Walgreens, Costco, Publix, Walmart, etc.   They crank out millions of flu shots every year, and they can quickly set up appointment websites, etc. to handle the Covid vaccines.    Yes, Pfizer might have to just go to hospital facilities with the deep freeze capabilities, but the local pharmacies can handle Moderna and J&J and AstraZeneca (when they are authorized).

@csm posted:

Not like there is much vaccine here to administer anyway....

Umm, not really, given that Canada has administered the 7th most injections globally as of today and we've bought over 400 million doses of various vaccines, more than ten times our population. In fact Canada is being criticised for hogging too much vaccine.

So I think we're good! 

We’re being criticized for buying too much vaccine, but I said there isn’t much vaccine here Mr. pedant. As in on our shores able to be administered. There isn’t much. It’s enough for less than 5% of the population (give or take, didn’t really do the math), so we aren’t “good” and won’t be for some time.

Last edited by csm
@csm posted:

We’re being criticized for buying too much vaccine, but I said there isn’t much vaccine here Mr. pedant. As in on our shores able to be administered. There isn’t much. It’s enough for less than 5% of the population (give or take, didn’t really do the math), so we aren’t “good” and won’t be for some time.

Well, we're getting 1.2 million more doses next month and 6 million by March. That doesn't seem so bad, given that the whole world wants it and the companies need to make the stuff of course. So yeah, small steps now but no smaller than most others according to the data.

Bman, the administration of doses that are available is a disaster.   It’s by appointment only during business hours.  They’ve only administered around 20% of the vaccinations on the ground and took the holidays OFF.  

this should be a wartime effort.  24/7 run by the military.  
Love our country but we do lack hutzpah with these things.  

Vaccine distribution and administration needs to be handled at the federal level.  If the US were attacked by a foreign entity in every state and locale, would a rational person expect that each states’ National Guard be responsible for engaging with and defending the attackers?  Should the federal government only be expected to send weaponry, munitions and funding, but provide zero guidance, communications and manpower?  

What is being overlooked here is that the COVID vaccines are not considered as benign as the flu vaccines.  Offloading this to pharmacy chains, Costcos, Walmarts, grocery stores, etc. isn’t the same as getting a flu shot.  When you get the COVID vaccine, you are supposed to be kept in an observation area with medical personnel for 30-45 mins, who monitor you in case of any allergic reactions.  The locations that provide flu shots would have to build infrastructure (both for appropriate, safe observation as well as for treatment of potential reactions) and procure appropriate medical staffing at every one of their locations.  Multiply that by tens of thousands, and you can understand the scope of the logistical hurdles the private sector entities face in doing this properly and safely.  

Does the federal government have available facilities and manpower to augment what the healthcare systems and state/local govts have?  It’s certainly a number higher than zero.  Yet while Putin’s Bitch golfs and whinges about a supposedly stolen election, people continue to test positive that likely could have avoided it if they’d begun the vaccination process.

@irwin posted:


So, explain to me why we are so far behind in the distribution of the vaccines?  In Israel, they have now vaccinated more than 7% of the population.  Here, it is under 1%.  Yes, they have fewer people and it’s a smaller country.  But they have fewer shippers, fewer distribution centers, etc.  Now, I know that the vaccines require certain conditions and special arrangements for shipping, but I suppose bananas do too.

A good friend of mine, who lives in Israel, same age as I, emailed me today.  He and his wife got their vaccines yesterday at their local health center in Jerusalem.  Neither is a “health care worker” and they aren’t in nursing homes or anything.

If we can ship and distribute fresh bananas from Costa Rica and Honduras every single day (and put a man on the moon) how come we can’t more quickly distribute the vaccines?

It’s not, as they say, rocket science.

Coordination of anything of that scale, either has been done before and min/maxed to such efficiency that it only applies to bananas with potential give or takes, ie you pluck bananas when they're not ripe and you allow for slow transportation over big boats.

vaccines on the other hand, require quicker / more specific forms of transport.  My understanding though, is that the initial leg of transport has indeed been quick.  However the last mile transport has been terrible.

Folks would rather their xmas gifts/exchanges be handled before a vaccine they might not even be able to get until much later.

It's going to be like Covid Testing was at the beginning.  Very difficult to get; lots of stories about "special" people having access while the general public does not.  Then, over the next few months, things will slowly improve. 

Unfortunately, since it appears that many many people have simply given up on preventative measures at this point, it is going to be a race to see whether you get the vaccine or the disease.

@flwino posted:

Send doses to all pharmacies [CVS & Walgreens],  let them inject us like they do for the flu shots!  The states are screwing this up.  Our phone number to call for appointments can't take more the 150 calls before it crashes.

Read my post five up from this one, and you’ll understand why the pharmacies and other entities that provide flu shots aren’t equipped to administer the COVID vaccines.  

The US is now looking at the possibility of giving half-doses of the Moderna vaccine to people ages 18-55, which appears to still be as effective as a full dose.  That would double the supply for that category. 

I wish we could authorize AstraZenaca, like the UK has done.  But I've heard that we probably won't issue an emergency use authorization until April at the earliest.

@Rothko posted:

The US is now looking at the possibility of giving half-doses of the Moderna vaccine to people ages 18-55, which appears to still be as effective as a full dose.  That would double the supply for that category.

I wish we could authorize AstraZenaca, like the UK has done.  But I've heard that we probably won't issue an emergency use authorization until April at the earliest.

Has there been any studies done on the half-doses of the Moderna Vaccine?  I'm too lazy to look for a link

@patespo1 posted:

Has there been any studies done on the half-doses of the Moderna Vaccine?  I'm too lazy to look for a link

Per CNN:  Earlier data showed that binding and neutralizing antibody responses were similar among participants under 55 who received either 100-microgram or 50-microgram doses, Slaoui said. While an FDA briefing document last month also references these “comparable” immune responses from Moderna’s phase 2 study, the full data have not yet been published.

@Rothko posted:

The US is now looking at the possibility of giving half-doses of the Moderna vaccine to people ages 18-55, which appears to still be as effective as a full dose.  That would double the supply for that category.

I wish we could authorize AstraZenaca, like the UK has done.  But I've heard that we probably won't issue an emergency use authorization until April at the earliest.

Is the issue really supply in the US?  It seems, from afar anyway, that it's more about getting the needles into arms.  Anecdotal I know, but my in-laws are eligible, in Florida for 2-3 months this winter, and can't actually get an appointment for the shot, even though there apparently is ample supply on hand.

I think that it is both.  Right now, there are real problems with getting the vaccine to make the "final mile" into the arms of people.  Even if we had a billion doses in the US, we couldn't vaccinate everyone because the states don't have the resources to do so. 

That problem will eventually be solved.  And once it is, we will run out of supply of the vaccine to meet the current demand.  So many will have to wait as more vaccine is manufactured and sent out.

Of course, it is just a matter of timing.  If we were all patient and could wait another 6 months, we'd all be able to get vaccinated.  But no one wants to wait that long.  Especially with a more contagious strain out there, gaining speed as it moves through our population.  And it will be very frustrating when we start to see more people (vaccinated or not) going out and living their lives while the non-vaccinated, Covid-careful people wait for their turns for a shot.

Heck, even if you got a shot today, you are looking about about 40-50 days to get the second shot and then build up your immunity.

@flwino posted:

Rothko, did you get yours?  Quite an article about Palm Beach "rich folks" getting ahead of the curve.  

No.  I don't qualify for the first round of shots in Palm Beach - you have to be 65 or older.  My father-in-law got his though.

What Palm Beach did was start planning for the vaccines months ago, with the Fire Department taking the lead role.  They applied with the County to become a Closed Point of Distribution, and they created an appointment website and were ready to go when the vaccines came to the County.  They got 800 doses for this week, and their appointments were all booked within 30 minutes.  They started vaccinating residents yesterday.  We are going to try to get my mother-in-law an appointment when they get the next batch and can offer more appointments.

Frankly, other towns should be doing the same thing.

My sister, who is a nurse, got her shot yesterday.  My father is getting a shot today.  I just have to be patient.

@flwino posted:

sent my e-mail in for appointment, Mrs. Flwino also qualifies for shots

I sent an email in to the County back on Dec 29th, requesting an appointment for my mother.  Never heard back.  Sent a follow-up email on Jan 4 - got an auto reply that said they'll get back in the order in which emails were received.  Still haven't heard anything.

I'm afraid that the County Health Department may not be a shining example of efficiency.

@Rothko posted:

I sent an email in to the County back on Dec 29th, requesting an appointment for my mother.  Never heard back.  Sent a follow-up email on Jan 4 - got an auto reply that said they'll get back in the order in which emails were received.  Still haven't heard anything.

I'm afraid that the County Health Department may not be a shining example of efficiency.

Typical. "I'm from the government, and here to help you."    Yeah sure

PURPLE and I both qualify for round 1B.  Texas is in rounds 1A and 1B right now.  We're registered with the county health department and waiting in the digital line.  Hopefully soon.

Our city fire department is handling vaccinations in our city.  They pull from the county registration list.  So far they seem fairly organized here.

@steve8 posted:

Are you Floridians aware that Canadian snowbirds are getting vaccinated down there? These irresponsible assholes disregarded the public health rules up here and flew down there for the winter. It sounds like some are even going down there now for shorter periods specifically to get vaccinated.

No proof of residency required. That is just wrong imo.

I've heard that Florida is going to vaccinate non-Florida residents.  We have a lot of snowbirds from New York, New England, etc. that are down here.  I hadn't heard that we'll go ahead and give FREE (US taxpayer paid) Covid shots to non-US residents before other Florida residents can get it.  But hey, why not??

If the vaccine had come out in the summertime, there'd be a lot fewer people in Florida trying to get it.  My town goes from a year-round population of 10,000 to over 30,000 in the winter. 

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