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So the Pfizer vaccine has rolled out; Moderna should get approved this week and start rolling as well.  I think we have reached the beginning of the end of the pandemic.

I have a family member who is a nurse at a large hospital complex and she will probably be getting the vaccine in the next week or so.  I wish we had more for everyone, but we are just going to have to wait a few more months before everyone who wants one can get one.

In an ordinary world, we would want high-ranking White House, Supreme Court, House and Senate, and Military folks to be in the front-line for the vaccine.  It's just that we have a White House that has consistently ignored or downplayed the pandemic, so the idea that they would be scrambling to get dibs on the vaccine for what they've proclaimed was a "hoax" is jarring.

Now, if the President hadn't gotten Covid in October, think he'd want to be first in line?

@Rothko posted:

In an ordinary world, we would want high-ranking White House, Supreme Court, House and Senate, and Military folks to be in the front-line for the vaccine.  It's just that we have a White House that has consistently ignored or downplayed the pandemic, so the idea that they would be scrambling to get dibs on the vaccine for what they've proclaimed was a "hoax" is jarring.

Now, if the President hadn't gotten Covid in October, think he'd want to be first in line?

Also, the current administration will all be out on their asses in 37 days so why waster precious vaccine on a gaggle of lame ducks?

Operation Warp Speed:  Look at the food distribution system in our country.  Go to the local grocery store and they always seem to have a supply of fresh apples, oranges, and other produce.  I live in Maryland.  For most of the year, most of this stuff comes from far away. Grapes from Chile.  Avocados from Mexico.  Bananas from Costa Rica.  If that can be done, somehow it seems we should be able to distribute the vaccines.

I would be surprised if I get the vaccine by March and people in their 40s and 50s perhaps by June. This is a massive undertaking especially, to answer Irwin's question, is that vegetables have normal storage temperature requirements while the first vaccine out of the gate requires storage at 90 degrees below zero. Making it harder to transport and to store. The Moderna vaccine requiring a more normal zero degree storage temperature will help but still you're talking about I would guess 400 million doses.

My thinking is there is around 320 million people in the US. Around a third will never get the vaccine for whatever reason. So therefore you looking around 200 million people who will get vaccinated and currently the vaccines require a second dose.

But to follow up on flwino's point, yes, an incompetent administration that downplayed the seriousness of this virus for half a year, flaunted and scoffed at mask-wearing for and touted patent medicine cures did not help the situation.

Last edited by The Old Man

"But to follow up on flwino's point, yes, an incompetent administration that downplayed the seriousness of this virus for half a year, flaunted and scoffed at mask-wearing for and touted patent medicine cures did not help the situation."

Did not help?  That is awfully mild.  Trump did not cause the virus to exist. I think the administration did some things that were good, such as funding vaccine development.  But, failing to be a leader by wearing a mask, holding maskless rallies, criticizing the science and the scientists, spewing lies and creating super spreader events, talking up non-scientific cures and treatments, most certainly caused deaths and illness, beyond any peradventure.

@irwin posted:

"But to follow up on flwino's point, yes, an incompetent administration that downplayed the seriousness of this virus for half a year, flaunted and scoffed at mask-wearing for and touted patent medicine cures did not help the situation."

Did not help?  That is awfully mild.  Trump did not cause the virus to exist. I think the administration did some things that were good, such as funding vaccine development.  But, failing to be a leader by wearing a mask, holding maskless rallies, criticizing the science and the scientists, spewing lies and creating super spreader events, talking up non-scientific cures and treatments, most certainly caused deaths and illness, beyond any peradventure.

I may be missing something here, but I don't get why Trump is getting so much credit for funding vaccine research when lots of countries did that, something that just makes sense frankly.  And the first vaccines were developed in Germany and the UK, not the US.  Not to deny him some degree of credit but he only did what everyone else who was in a position to do so did, no?

@bman posted:

I may be missing something here, but I don't get why Trump is getting so much credit for funding vaccine research when lots of countries did that, something that just makes sense frankly.  And the first vaccines were developed in Germany and the UK, not the US.  Not to deny him some degree of credit but he only did what everyone else who was in a position to do so did, no?

I guess he wants credit because someone in his administration came up with silly name, "Operation Warp Speed." After all no other countries did that so a little credit where credit is due.

Looks like I am in Group 1c for the vaccine (non-frontline essential worker category).  Along with about 85 million other folks.

I am no fan of the Trump Administration's handling (or lack thereof) of the pandemic, but I will give credit where credit is due and say that Operation Warp Speed (bad name by the way) was successful in that the US Government fronted the production of vaccines before we knew whether they would be approved or not.  Imagine if Pfizer and Moderna had run their Phase 3 trials and announced this month that their vaccines were 95% efficacious, but then said it was going to be 6 months to start production lines and another 3 before any meaningful amount of vaccine could be produced.

Of course, the Administration did screw up by not locking in more Pfizer vaccine when it could have.  I heard that they wanted to hedge their bets by spreading the funding around, but that turned out to be a bad call.

And now we have this new British variant of Covid that seems to be much more contagious.

@Rothko posted:

Looks like I am in Group 1c for the vaccine (non-frontline essential worker category).  Along with about 85 million other folks.

I am no fan of the Trump Administration's handling (or lack thereof) of the pandemic, but I will give credit where credit is due and say that Operation Warp Speed (bad name by the way) was successful in that the US Government fronted the production of vaccines before we knew whether they would be approved or not.  Imagine if Pfizer and Moderna had run their Phase 3 trials and announced this month that their vaccines were 95% efficacious, but then said it was going to be 6 months to start production lines and another 3 before any meaningful amount of vaccine could be produced.

Of course, the Administration did screw up by not locking in more Pfizer vaccine when it could have.  I heard that they wanted to hedge their bets by spreading the funding around, but that turned out to be a bad call.

And now we have this new British variant of Covid that seems to be much more contagious.

Canada and I believe Europe also fronted production of the vaccines months before approval. Canada committed funding vaccine development a month before Trump did and I believe that Germany did so before Canada. So Trump gets credit for copying what others did weeks before him, which I suppose counts for something.

@bman posted:

Canada and I believe Europe also fronted production of the vaccines months before approval. Canada committed funding vaccine development a month before Trump did and I believe that Germany did so before Canada. So Trump gets credit for copying what others did weeks before him, which I suppose counts for something.

Given the crazy things we've seen this Administration do in the last 9 months on Covid, it was refreshing that they did something right instead of something drastically wrong.

@irwin posted:

"But to follow up on flwino's point, yes, an incompetent administration that downplayed the seriousness of this virus for half a year, flaunted and scoffed at mask-wearing for and touted patent medicine cures did not help the situation."

Did not help?  That is awfully mild.  Trump did not cause the virus to exist. I think the administration did some things that were good, such as funding vaccine development.  But, failing to be a leader by wearing a mask, holding maskless rallies, criticizing the science and the scientists, spewing lies and creating super spreader events, talking up non-scientific cures and treatments, most certainly caused deaths and illness, beyond any peradventure.

The fact that there are now 20 different mutations, with 3 predominant strains running throughout the US shows what happens when you have an incompetent administration.  Ditto the UK who now has a potentially even more virulent strain of covid-19. 

What's the point of developing a cure if you give the virus a vector for making the cure worthless?  Unless you believe in the conspiracy that it's all big pharma from the start and they just came up with the perfect plan via Trump to lock in profits for years to come.

After getting his shot yesterday, President Elect Biden said:

"I think the administration deserves some credit getting this off the ground with Operation Warp Speed," Biden said.

"This give us great hope," he said.

Wow.  A person who can actually give credit to another person! A politician who does not feel the need to personally attack everyone else as inferior to him! A President-Elect who makes an intelligent comment.

And, here is VP Elect Harris:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertai...vid19-063951416.html

Instead of snarling at Senators Rubio and Graham, who downplayed the covid pandemic in their haste to kowtow to the outgoing President, she refused to criticize them for getting vaccines.

Is this a return to the “kinder, gentler America” of which Pres. George HW Bush spoke in his first inaugural?  “America is never wholly herself unless she is engaged in high moral principle. We as a people have such a purpose today. It is to make kinder the face of the nation and gentler the face of the world.”

Is the new administration going to dispense with the constant barrage of attacks on others?

Geez.  This is so revolutionary.

Last edited by irwin
@winedrmike posted:

Got round 1 of the Moderna vaccine first thing this morning, despite having had Covid in March. Beat Dr. Fauci to it.  No issues or side effects so far.  Another 4 weeks and I’m ready for an offline.

That's great.  I guess you are a "front line" health care worker.  Not sure what a "rear line" or "side line" health care worker is.

Has your sense of taste returned any?

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