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@Rothko posted:

Yes, I wrote that there are ways to minimize the risks.  Which don't appear to be considered by the Federal government at the current time.  So, while I do feel strongly that kids should go back to school, I think it needs to be done in a way to minimize the risks.  If, for example, Florida came up with a plan to open schools that actually seemed feasible, I'd be onboard with it.

But I don't think the Federal Government's concept:  "just open up the schools and consequences be damned" is the way to go.

you figure anybody with any sort of common sense/intelligence would think that ...  I'm honestly surprised at how 30% of this country acutally gets by in life.

Much respect to Maryland Gov Larry Hogan for his insider perspective of what it has been like trying to get federal government assistance from the early beginnings of the pandemic.  The shameful lack of leadership by Putin’s Bitch is no surprise.  What was surprising is the extent that governors were briefed by federal health leaders that COVID-19 was going to be a serious threat:

In early February, we descended on Washington for the annual winter meeting of the National Governors Association. As chairman, I had worked closely with the staff for months assembling the agenda, including a private, governors-only briefing at our hotel, the Marriott Marquis, to address the growing viral threat. We brought in Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who was already widely admired but whose awesome knowledge and straight-talking style hadn't yet made him a national rock star; CDC head Robert Redfield; Ken Cuccinelli, the acting deputy secretary of homeland security; Jay Butler, the CDC's deputy director for infectious diseases; and Robert Kadlec, assistant secretary for preparedness and response at the Department of Health and Human Services.

They hit us with detailed presentations and the unfiltered truth, as well as it was known then. I remember hearing many dire claims: "This could be catastrophic. . . . The death toll could be significant. . . . Much more contagious than SARS. . . . Testing will be crucial. . . . You have to follow the science - that's where the answers lie."

It was jarring, the huge contrast between the experts' warnings and the president's public dismissals. Weren't these the people the White House was consulting about the virus? What made the briefing even more chilling was its clear, factual tone. It was a harrowing warning of an imminent national threat, and we took it seriously - at least most of us did. It was enough to convince almost all the governors that this epidemic was going to be worse than most people realized.

That any governor who sat through that back in February would now still be recklessly pushing for their states to reopen is nearly as criminal as what Putin’s Bitch and his band of idiots have perpetrated........

Last edited by ProSys
@Rothko posted:

Yes, I wrote that there are ways to minimize the risks.  Which don't appear to be considered by the Federal government at the current time.  So, while I do feel strongly that kids should go back to school, I think it needs to be done in a way to minimize the risks.  If, for example, Florida came up with a plan to open schools that actually seemed feasible, I'd be onboard with it.

But I don't think the Federal Government's concept:  "just open up the schools and consequences be damned" is the way to go.

At least our county has a plan.  Delay opening, and then virtual.  Too bad the gov has no idea of what is going on.   

@csm posted:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02...oit-study/index.html

And there’s this one that apparently shows the opposite.  

Hydroxychloroquine also doesn't help Covid-19 patients who aren't hospitalized, new study finds

"One study published this month by researchers at Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan found hydroxychloroquine increased hospitalized patients' chances of survival. However, researchers not involved with the study were critical of it, saying it wasn't of the same quality of the previous studies that showed hydroxychloroquine did not help patients."

I also wouldn't take Dr. Trump's advice to ingest household cleaning supplies.

Last edited by The Old Man

The Trumpy governor of OK was out in public without a mask. Now he's tested positive and all those who he came in contact with will have to worry and get tested. BTW, "Anyone who wants a test, can get a test" is still and lie after almost four months. I don't blame Napacat from slinking away from this forum; you have to be brain-dead to support this president.

@The Old Man posted:

Hydroxychloroquine also doesn't help Covid-19 patients who aren't hospitalized, new study finds

"One study published this month by researchers at Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan found hydroxychloroquine increased hospitalized patients' chances of survival. However, researchers not involved with the study were critical of it, saying it wasn't of the same quality of the previous studies that showed hydroxychloroquine did not help patients."

I also wouldn't take Dr. Trump's advice to ingest household cleaning supplies.

You said hospitalized or not.  It appears that hydroxy did help at least some that were hospitalized. It wasn’t helpful to prevent the disease (no medical professional actually said that I don’t think) but it did apparently help some in treatment of the infection.  

@csm posted:

You said hospitalized or not.  It appears that hydroxy did help at least some that were hospitalized. It wasn’t helpful to prevent the disease (no medical professional actually said that I don’t think) but it did apparently help some in treatment of the infection.  

I think you've got that a little twisted. Yes, I did say both. However that's because it's already been accepted that it does not help non-hospitalized people. So therefore I was citing this newest information, even newer than the Ford if only by a few days. It shows no real effectiveness in hospital settings.

I think most people can agree that at best the findings are nebulous and in no way deserved the major touting, over months, that they received by the snake oil salesman in the White House. I can't figure out what it was except either he owns some type of stock in a pharmacy company (as we know he has unethically not separated his personal assets and business from the presidency) or doing a friend a favor. Or just his way of pretending this pandemic doesn't exist. Who knows? But it really made no sense.

Last edited by The Old Man

“We have embers and we do have flames. Florida became more flame-like, but it’s - it’s going to be under control.  I’ll be right eventually,” he said. “It’s going to disappear and I’ll be right.” - Trump 2020/7/19

Must be comforting to know that our government has a real plan .... eventually.

Last edited by g-man

RNC Convention in Jacksonville cancelled:

"I looked at my team and I said the timing for this event is not right. It's just not right," Trump said at the White House. "To have a big convention, it's not the right time....    There's nothing more important in our country than keeping our people safe," Trump said.

Sure you did.

@Rothko posted:

RNC Convention in Jacksonville cancelled:

"I looked at my team and I said the timing for this event is not right. It's just not right," Trump said at the White House. "To have a big convention, it's not the right time....    There's nothing more important in our country than keeping our people safe," Trump said.

Sure you did.

Real idiot.  The republicans in JAX were all against it, the problems, cost etc.  Nice to see that they persevered

@flwino posted:

Real idiot.  The republicans in JAX were all against it, the problems, cost etc.  Nice to see that they persevered

His first concern was that attendance for the “big convention” was going to be something more akin to what was the turnout for his rally in Tulsa, OK.  No doubt the feedback was more than a fair amount of folks RSVPing “thanks but no thanks” to the idea of traveling to the state with the worst pandemic numbers currently to be indoors with folks who weren’t going to social distance or wear masks.  

@Rothko posted:

My sons' college fall semesters are going to be virtual.  They are both rather upset, and I am heartbroken for them.  I blame our federal and state leadership for the massive and epic failure this has become.

Anyone else watch the Axios interview?  Appalling.

Most of the planned mixed in person and virtual hybrid programs are going to fail and be scrapped because testing is not efficient enough.  

They planned that at Georgetown Law School where my sister is on the faculty and have scrapped it for virtual only.

My Uncle is a Professor and Franklin & Marshall - and he is recording and doing all classes virtually.  Last I heard, they still had limited in person option (as of our Sunday family Zoom) but I expect that is not happening either

My two boys were going to Georgetown.  Georgetown this summer said that only the Freshmen would be allowed to come in-person, live in the dorms (One person per room) and attend on-campus classes.  Everyone else, including the Seniors, would start virtual classes only.  My younger son is going to be a Freshman, and was excited to be going up there, even with a slightly altered Freshman year format.  

My older son, who is going to be a Senior, wasn't going to be allowed to go up there, and was planning to stay at home.  We were bummed that they would be not able to be together on campus.

Last week, the University announced that they were cancelling the in-person program for the Freshman, so both of the boys are now going to be at home.  One starting his Freshman year (what a way to begin college) and one starting his Senior year (what a way to end college).

If our leaders had taken this seriously from the beginning, followed the science and medical experts, and done what should have been done, they'd both be going away to school.  A real shame, and it didn't have to be this way.

Last edited by Rothko
@Rothko posted:

My two boys were going to Georgetown.  Georgetown this summer said that only the Freshmen would be allowed to come in-person, live in the dorms (One person per room) and attend on-campus classes.  Everyone else, including the Seniors, would start virtual classes only.  My younger son is going to be a Freshman, and was excited to be going up there, even with a slightly altered Freshman year format.  

My older son, who is going to be a Senior, wasn't going to be allowed to go up there, and was planning to stay at home.  We were bummed that they would be not able to be together on campus.

Last week, the University announced that they were cancelling the in-person program for the Freshman, so both of the boys are now going to be at home.  One starting his Freshman year (what a way to begin college) and one starting his Senior year (what a way to end college).

If our leaders had taken this seriously from the beginning, followed the science and medical experts, and done what should have been done, they'd both be going away to school.  A real shame, and it didn't have to be this way.

Am I correct in assuming they would refund the dorm/meal plan fees?  And also assume they are still charging full price for tuition even though they will be entirely online?  

We hadn't paid the room and board fees yet, and they won't be charging them, of course.  They actually gave a discount back to the students for last year's room and board for the couple of months that they were shut down.

They are charging a reduced tuition (I think 10% less) for the virtual-only classes.

The real problem is with financial aid.  They just sent out the financial aid offers to the students, and they've increased the amount of the student-obligations and lowered the amount of the university financial aid.  So a lot of people are really ticked off.

@csm posted:

Have such 'Rona fatigue these days, that I might actually consider it. 

I hear you.

The more interesting question is: if you had the opportunity to receive right now one of the US or European vaccines that are undergoing Phase III testing either currently or soon, would you take it?

I wouldn't consider taking part in a Phase III trial, because they are placebo-controlled, so you might not actually get the vaccine, you might get salt water.

But if someone offered you the real McCoy, would you take it now?  

It seems to me that all of the preliminary trials have been going very well, so that would appear to indicate a fairly high degree of confidence that the vaccines will be both effective and safe.  The whole point of the Phase III trial is to confirm that.  

Last edited by Rothko
@Rothko posted:

The more interesting question is: if you had the opportunity to receive right now one of the US or European vaccines that are undergoing Phase III testing either currently or soon, would you take it?

It seems to me that all of the preliminary trials have been going very well, so that would appear to indicate a fairly high degree of confidence that the vaccines will be both effective and safe.  The whole point of the Phase III trial is to confirm that.  

What's missing in these tests is time. It takes time for some of the ill effects of a failed, or dangerous, vaccine to show themselves. A vaccine is desperately needed but it needs to be safe and I disagree with your comment that it there is a high degree of confidence that it is yet.

Well, no one (to my knowledge) who has been injected with a US or European test vaccine has turned into the Undead or a werewolf or suffered any major catastrophic effect, so I don't think it is wrong to say that there is a fairly high degree of confidence that the vaccine will be safe and effective.  But I concur that the Phase III trial needs to be undertaken to confirm that.  I also agree with you that some rare or latent effects may not turn up until years later.  That's why many of these vaccines take many many years to test before they are released.  We just don't have that kind of time, in this case, to wait.

Last edited by Rothko

"Well, no one (to my knowledge) who has been injected with a US or European test vaccine has turned into the Undead or a werewolf or suffered any major catastrophic effect, so I don't think it is wrong to say that there is a fairly high degree of confidence that the vaccine will be safe and effective."

This is your standard? As long as no one is turned into a zombie or a werewolf or had a major catastrophic event (whatever that means) after a few months of testing, that means it's safe? Please don't apply for a job with the NIH. I have nothing more to say, I'm kind of shocked.

Last edited by The Old Man

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