Tonight on my way home, I was listening to the radio, and the host was mentioning how some drug "Vitorin"(I am not sure if this is the correct spelling or not), which is a drug that is supposed to help lower cholesterol. Ok, I am nowhere near that point in my life or even remotely close to being that old where I need that stuff. But, I have seen the adds.

The talk show host was mentioning how this drug is causing cancer in some patients. I have seen so many adds for these drugs on the tube and then they list the possible side affects and I am like thinking, wow, it sounds like if you take this stuff you will be creating more problems than you already have.

This got me to thinking about Chinese medicines and herbal medicines versus these prescription drugs. In my own opinion, there is a real good reason Asian people have a long history of having long life spans, and modern medicines have little or even nothing to do with it. I know many in the medical field look down upon these forms of medicine, but I am a true believer it works very good.

Sometimes I have problems sleeping. This knowledgeable Asian lady told me to try Passion flower tea. Well lets say this, it worked!! But, I have heard from some other people say that they are now trusting Chinese and Herbal medicines more now.

There are some Chinese medicine experts in San Francisco, and I am sure in other major cities as well, I am serious, if I should need some form of medicine I am going to go this route first. I just do not trust what some of these prescription drugs have in them or could do to a person.

What are your thoughts on this? I would be real curious to know, I am sure this could spark a lively discussion.
Original Post
There are 3 drugs on earth that are worth a damn...and I have no reason to take them...but they are worth a damn:

Viagra
Levitra
Cialis

Any other drug or remedy have side effects that just aren't worth it. If I ever died from the 3 mentioned...I at least know I'd die enjoying it.
quote:
In my own opinion, there is a... good reason Asian people have a long history of having long life spans, and modern medicines have little or even nothing to do with it.

This is true.


quote:
I know many in the medical field look down upon these forms of medicine

This is true.


quote:
[I, however, believe that they] work... very [well].

This is false. Well, it is true that you believe that they work well. It is false that they do...

Medicines that in controlled scientific experiments are found not to work do not work. Now, some things do work -- accupuncture, for example, really can relieve stress which can lead to a healthier life, both mentally and physically. There are certainly homeopathic and natural things out there that can help boost the immune system -- Vitamin C, Echinacea... even low levels of iron for some people.

But if we are talking about the stuff that "Western Medicine" says doesn't work -- ie. science says doesn't work because it has been studied by doctors and/or technicians under controlled conditons and found not to work -- well, that stuff doesn't work.

The reason that people from more affluent Asian countries have a longer life expectancy is not rocket science. If almost everyone in the US ate no processed starches, no tropical nut oils, tons of fruit and vegetables and tons of fish with virtually no red meat, we would have the same life expectancy.
Yes, lots of factors determine health. Tops being genetics and lifestyle. Good genes go a long way. So do exercise and diet.

I am on the fence. Some western meds are beneficial. My fiancee takes a thyroid medicine to compensate for some bad genetics (shhh), but she also takes an iron tablet I know could be replaced by fresh spinach and beets, or red meat if she ate it.

In the West, we are very much concerned with treating symptoms. Doctors write antibiotic prescriptions at the first sniffle, without regard to a compromised immune system down the road. They do this because patients demand it, and many doctors are more than willing to oblige, rather than say "sleep it off, eat your leafy greens, you'll be fine in a couple of days."

Not all western medicine is cooked up in a lab somewhere from various aldehydes and esters. Many come from isolated compounds found in nature. Some American Indians would gnaw on willow bark as a headache cure. Guess what? It contains salicylic acid (aspirin). New life-saving medicines are being found all over the world in a variety of things.

I think it's naive to discount the findings of Eastern medical thinking. I don't have it all the time, but I always feel great after having ginseng tea for a couple of days, as a Chinese college buddy of mine suggested.

Sure, there seems to be a lot of quackery in Asian medicine. It's debatable whether virility comes from eating gonads. And, the founder of the Qin dynasty is known for having the Great Wall built. He also had his doctors make him herbal pills to give immortality. A main ingredient ultimately killed him: Mercury.

Neither system is perfect, but perfection may lie in judicious blending of the two.

PSF, if you're interested in the subject, see if you can find a copy of "A Modern Herbal" in the local library. It's in two parts I believe, a bit dated, but interesting reading.
Doctors PRACTICE MEDICINE. One therapy that will work for one patient may not work for a different patient. Some people will react differently to a specific therapy or medication than others. That said, some people will receive benefits where others do not. The other concern is the possible side effects of said cure.
Juicy, you are right. It took me three or four tries at different medications before I found the right mix for my anxiety and depression. Iv'e been on the same meds now for four years.
quote:
Originally posted by mpls wine guy:
Juicy, you are right. It took me three or four tries at different medications before I found the right mix for my anxiety and depression. Iv'e been on the same meds now for four years.


Ever thought about dealing with the source of your anxiety and depression vs. just medicating it?

Frankly, the side effects of most depression meds would have me choosing to jump off a cliff anyway...so what's the point!!
Chilepepper,

There are many healthy, well adjusted people who suffer from chronic depression due to imbalances in neurotransmitters and chemical activity in the synapses. Many of the Selective SEratonin Reuptake INhibitors have saved the lives of many people when used properly and with regular medical supervision. We need not have deep seeded problems or traumas to suffer clinical depression.

these drugs are a God send for many.

I do believe that they are often prescribed when perhaps some psychotherapy, diet change or other non-drug treatments may be the ticket.
As a scientist myself I still hold out some appreciation for Chinese/Homeopathic/Alternative medicine (or at least some parts of each), although my suspicion is that most of it is down to one thing...Placebo effect.

I believe that if you truly think something will do you good (and it is not chemically going to do you harm) then, on average, it's better than doing nothing at all and should be at least a consideration along with more scientifically proven treatments.

I do question the blind faith in any single treatment if it is exclusive to the possibility using complementary techniques, and that goes for both "Alternative" and "Western" medicine.

As with most things in life there is little "Black or White" and a lot of "Shades of Grey" - when it comes to health the mind is often overlooked for its effect on the body.
quote:
Originally posted by cdr:
Chilepepper,

There are many healthy, well adjusted people who suffer from chronic depression due to imbalances in neurotransmitters and chemical activity in the synapses. Many of the Selective SEratonin Reuptake INhibitors have saved the lives of many people when used properly and with regular medical supervision. We need not have deep seeded problems or traumas to suffer clinical depression.

these drugs are a God send for many.

I do believe that they are often prescribed when perhaps some psychotherapy, diet change or other non-drug treatments may be the ticket.


My belief is that it seems these drugs are now the first line of defense instead of the last and are WAY overprescribed. I frankly, would avoid them at all costs - but I guess I should shut up know before I'm compared to Tom Cruise or something. Eek
quote:
Originally posted by indybob:
In the West, we are very much concerned with treating symptoms. Doctors write antibiotic prescriptions at the first sniffle, without regard to a compromised immune system down the road. They do this because patients demand it, and many doctors are more than willing to oblige, rather than say "sleep it off, eat your leafy greens, you'll be fine in a couple of days."

We're seeing the direct impact of this practice today in the increase in MRSA, VRE, and other antibiotic resistant organisms

quote:
Originally posted by Greybeard:
As with most things in life there is little "Black or White" and a lot of "Shades of Grey" - when it comes to health the mind is often overlooked for its effect on the body.

I fully agree with this. I also think that the capabilities of the body itself are overlooked. As Greybeard said, there are many "shades of Grey", but I think that there are times when our bodies capability’s are not taken into account. It seems that people today feel that they are not getting their "money's worth" from their physician if they are not given some sort of medication.
I was recently prescribed Ambien for anxiety and insomnia issues. I would take one before bed and wake up with a headache and groggy pill hangover that lasted for 2 days.

Then I took the path of Jamaican herbal medicine. I take some of that before bed, makes me feel great, wake up fully rested and ready to go in the morning.

Sorry if this sounds flippant, and it's obviously not a cure for more serious conditions, but it's relatively natural and seems to heal on both physical and mental levels.
Chilepepper,

Many people do, in fact, head to the doctor and ask, "Can you presecribe me something," when other, chemical free or limited duration meds would work as well and prevent the side effects that these potent SSRI drugs can have. Having a bad day or a bad week is not sufficient, in my book, to seek medical help for depresssion, but hey, I'm no doctor.
Chum Lee,

Has your MD prescribed medical marijuana for you? Just curios.

And, although you wake up feeling better, does the Big Mac crazing count as a side effect? Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by chum lee:
I was recently prescribed Ambien for anxiety and insomnia issues. I would take one before bed and wake up with a headache and groggy pill hangover that lasted for 2 days.

Then I took the path of Jamaican herbal medicine. I take some of that before bed, makes me feel great, wake up fully rested and ready to go in the morning.

Sorry if this sounds flippant, and it's obviously not a cure for more serious conditions, but it's relatively natural and seems to heal on both physical and mental levels.
I took a lot of “Jamaican herbal medicine” in college. Come to think of it, I slept great in college as well Wink
No, my MD here in CA did not prescribe it, she did mention it as an alternative idea, but prescribed the Ambien. I don't think I'll need it so much to go out and get a prescription for it. I hadn't touched the stuff since college, let's just say it's gotten a lot more medicinal since those days.

Again, sorry PSF if it sounds like I'm making light of your original post, I'm honestly not. It just sounded to me like we might have been in a similar situation/state of mind, and this particular "cure" did well for me. And don't worry, my hair is still short, I'm still clean shaven, and I still can't stand the Allman Brothers.
An American goes to see the Olympics. While in Beijing, he is ... entertained, and does not take any precautions. A week after arriving back home he awakens one morning to find his penis covered with bright green and purple spots. Horrified, he immediately goes to see his doctor.

The doctor, never having seen anything like this before, orders some tests and tells the man to return in a two days for the results. The man returns a couple of days later and the doctor says, "I've got bad news for you. You've contracted Mongolian VD. It's very rare and almost unheard of here. We know very little about it."

The man looks a little relieved and says, "Well, give me a shot or something and fix me up doc."

The doctor answers, "I'm sorry, there's no known cure other than to amputate your penis." The man screams in horror, "Oh no! I want a second opinion!"

The doctor replies, "Well it's your choice. Go ahead if you want, but surgery is your only choice."

The next day, the man seeks out a Chinese doctor, figuring that he'll know more about the disease. The Chinese doctor examines his penis and proclaims, "Ah yes, Mongolian VD. Very rare disease."

The guy says to the doctor, "Yeah, yeah, I already know that, but what can you do? My American doctor wants to operate and amputate my penis!"

The Chinese doctor shakes his head and laughs, "Stupid American doctor! American doctor, always want to operate. Make more money, that way."

"Then there's no need to operate? Oh, thank God!" the man replies.

"Yes!" says the Chinese doctor, "You no worry! Wait two weeks, it fall off by itself!"
cdr posted:
Chilepepper,

There are many healthy, well adjusted people who suffer from chronic depression due to imbalances in neurotransmitters and chemical activity in the synapses. Many of the Selective SEratonin Reuptake INhibitors have saved the lives of many people when used properly and with regular medical supervision. We need not have deep seeded problems or traumas to suffer clinical depression.

these drugs are a God send for many.

I do believe that they are often prescribed when perhaps some psychotherapy, diet change or other non-drug treatments may be the ticket.

My sister has been suffering from depression for years. Of course, medications are good, but it is better to choose more natural way of treatment like cbd products (it is possible to find out more here). She has recently started using cbd oil and the effect is great. It works great for her. Ha anyone tried cbd for depression?

Last edited by Francis123

CBD currently does not have enough research to make many statements about its medical efficacy. The people in the shops who sell these products (now even at Macy's etc.) could be arrested for unauthorized practice of medicine. "This is good for pain, this is good for depression, this helps you go to sleep, this cures cancer, this will help your dog, this grows hair." At this point they are  giving no more than the equivalent of quack medical advice. More research is needed into CBD and THC. This research was delayed for decades by its Class A schedule listing. My own suspicion is when they do enough research they will not find it to be the miracle drug many think it is.

Your sister's depression should be treated by a doctor, not a store clerk.

Last edited by The Old Man

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