Burgundy Experts - Question for You...

I've had a number of Domaine Chanson red Burgundies going back to the 1976 vintage. All were good wines; none exceptional. They were relatively inexpensive.

quote:

2005 Domaine Chanson Beaune Teurons 1er Cru

Fun website, they have.
I've not had the wine, but the site gives you some good info.
http://www.vins-chanson.com/pages/wines.php?id_vin=11

quote:

I've had a number of Domaine Chanson red Burgundies going back to the 1976 vintage. All were good wines; none exceptional. They were relatively inexpensive.

Can you recommend something "relatively inexpensive" that would offer up more enjoyment? I'd like to put my dollars to better use, based on your commentary...

Thank you.

First, i've not tasted that particular wine.
The price seems a fair reflection of the astronomical prices of the 2005 vintage.
Teurons is a top Beaune vineyard, 2005 is a top vintage, but as Board-O already said, Chanson is not a must for red Burgundies.
Would not jump on it, considering the price.

quote:

Originally posted by The Economist:
Can you recommend something "relatively inexpensive" that would offer up more enjoyment? I'd like to put my dollars to better use, based on your commentary...

Thank you.

I've really enjoyed the 05 Bouchard Teurons and the price should be in the same ballpark if not a little less.

Burgundy and inexpensive are rarely used in the same sentence.
The problem is that Burgundies are generally pretty expensive and the relative values of the dollars (US or Canadian) vs the Euro are not helping matters.
I think I'd find the best local outlet for these wines and chat up the staff at the store for a good recommendation.
There are many Canadians on the forum who had good knowledge in this area.
bman is one from Ottawa, I think.

In many years, and 05 is a good example, most Burgundies and not meant to be drank young! Forget your American roots, these are wines that develop over the years and are not meant to be drank upon release. This is ecspecially the case with 1st and grand crus.

Either find older vintages or try letting the wines open up more by longer decanting!

I had a few of the '05 Chanson and was not totally convinced since it is not really my style for Burgundy. Recent vintages have been made in a rather modern way.
Last time I tried them (about 5 months ago) they were still open so maybe you could give it a shot and try one to see if you like it.
Regarding prices, if you like their style, I'd say this is pretty fair.

Sandy -

I wasn't planning on opening up anything from '05 at this stage of the game; I'm not sure if I indicated that anywhere but, if I did, that's not the case. I was more curious about the value proposition of this particular 2005 1er Cru from Beaune in relation to its peer group, that is all... It seems like the consensus is that +C$50 for this wine is a bit much to pay for the drinking pleasure it may provide in the future; I just wan't equipped to make that call myself since I have no prior experience with Chanson wines or any other wines from Teurons for that matter.

Burgundy, with the vineyards all split up between owners, seems a tough place to get information from.

My Burgundy strategy was to pick a specific producer that wouldn't suck (Christian Serafin) and to try out all of his different bottlings... from generic burgundies to grand cru bottlings.

I've heard that Burgundy is a minefield... hit or miss, with lots of money at stake. So I figured that focusing on a good producer could give me perspective that a random strategy might not.

I've tried several different bottlings from Domaine de la Vougeraie and enjoyed them all. Reasonably priced and nice quality.


Cheers

MP

quote:

Originally posted by The Economist:
Can you recommend something "relatively inexpensive" that would offer up more enjoyment? I'd like to put my dollars to better use, based on your commentary...

Thank you.

Hard to say. I don't buy a lot of Burgundy any longer and try to get great ones when I can, but the prices have soared so astronomically, that I don't buy much anymore. If pressed to name the best red Burgundy for the money, I'd probably say Girardin.

I used to work for Chanson's US importer, a rinky dink, 3 man shop. Chanson was pure mediocrity at best, but they are in the midst of a turnaround - new management, quality focus, etc. The raw materials are there for great wines someday. You might want to see what vintage is the new team's first. If the new team was fully in charge of the 05 vintage, from vineyard mgmt on down, you might have a bargain on your hands, otherwise stay away.

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Originally posted by Board-O:

quote:

Originally posted by The Economist:
Can you recommend something "relatively inexpensive" that would offer up more enjoyment? I'd like to put my dollars to better use, based on your commentary...

Thank you.

Hard to say. I don't buy a lot of Burgundy any longer and try to get great ones when I can, but the prices have soared so astronomically, that I don't buy much anymore. If pressed to name the best red Burgundy for the money, I'd probably say Girardin.

I would add Chateau de Chorey (Jacques Germain) and Daniel Rion to that list.

quote:

Originally posted by The Economist:

Can you recommend something "relatively inexpensive" that would offer up more enjoyment? I'd like to put my dollars to better use, based on your commentary...

Thank you.

For me, you really need to stick to the best producers, whatever the vintage or vineyard. To keep in this $50 and under range that generally means sticking to certain villages. One of my favorites is Savigny. Capable of excellent, long-lived wines but are still generally under $50 and many in the $30-40 range. The 2005's are probably too hard and shut down to really enjoy now, so I'd hold on to those. Some of the 06's are more flattering and still showing well. Top producers include Pavelot, S. Bize, P. Guillemot and some others. 06's are still available in many places. Some people would add Ecard to the list, I haven't loved his wines as much, finding them a bit too forward and fruit driven. I like the structure and transparency of the Pavelot and Guillemot in particular. Bize is a bit more polished but still deep and complex.

I would go with Bouchard Beaune du Chateau or Jadot Theurons.
Also don't forget Savigny-les-Beaunes for 'budget' wines that deliver.

With regards to their move towards a more 'modernist' style, Chanson was bought by Bollinger early in this century (it might have been late 90's but pretty sure it was 2001). They have changed the previous method and management of both the vineyards and wine making resulting in some pretty drastic changes in the wines produced compared with previous vintages.

Currently I personally I prefer their whites to their reds but given time I think these guys will probably improve with time.

I have found, in my short time collecting fine wine, that I really love Burgundy, and that while it can be hit or miss, tools such as CellarTracker, this forum, WS magazine, and Burgundy Report, have all helped me to have more successes than failures. I also stick to a few producers who I like, some major, a few small.
I suggest Thierry et Pascale Matrot for Volnay or Meursault, they also make some other bottlings that I have not tried. Wittershiem-Matrot was making decent inexpensive Volnay too, but I think they were purchased by Girardin (or Faiveley, I forget),
I also echo the Girardin reco, and I have had good luck at the Bourgogne level with Leroy (with the cheaper Maison wine) and with Meo-Camuzet.

quote:

I have found, in my short time collecting fine wine, that I really love Burgundy, and that while it can be hit or miss, tools such as CellarTracker, this forum, WS magazine, and Burgundy Report, have all helped me to have more successes than failures. I also stick to a few producers who I like, some major, a few small.
I suggest Thierry et Pascale Matrot for Volnay or Meursault, they also make some other bottlings that I have not tried. Wittershiem-Matrot was making decent inexpensive Volnay too, but I think they were purchased by Girardin (or Faiveley, I forget),
I also echo the Girardin reco, and I have had good luck at the Bourgogne level with Leroy (with the cheaper Maison wine) and with Meo-Camuzet.

My sentiments exactly.

And, many good comments here in this thread.

I would disagree that Burgundy is too expensive. Sure if you want the rarest and most heralded wines, this is the case. But, there are hundreds of producers making wine in the $30-100 range that are great examples of what this region is able to provide the quintessential Pinotphile!

What makes it expensive is figuring out who you like, what villages interest you, and what vintages you like. The diversity here is far more, and much more complicated than anywhere else I can think of (outside of maybe Germany). It requires $$ and time to taste, and get a sense of what is interesting to you. Just because you don't like one producers Clos Vougeot doesn't mean you won't like another. Likewise, higher extract/ripe years like '99 and '05 appeal to some, while leaner more classic years like '00, '01, '04 and '06 appeal to others. It will take time and money to figure these nuances out. Or someone with a very generous cellar! But, when you hit the sweetspot, you realize why Burgundy is so adored by it's fans!

Naudin-Ferrand offers very good wines in the less prominent appellations, namely Hautes-Côtes de Beaune and Hautes-Côtes de Nuits and Côte de Nuits villages. Eg.: Hautes-Côtes de Beaune "Cuvée Orchis" at 12,50 Euro has a real good QPR.
Paul Jacqueson has some serious versions of Rully.
Domaine Roulot offers good generic white Burgundy.(made from young Meursault vines)

quote:

Originally posted by The Economist:

Can you recommend something "relatively inexpensive" that would offer up more enjoyment? I'd like to put my dollars to better use, based on your commentary...

Thank you.

Pavelot - well regarded Savigny premier crus and great QPRs ($30-45) but typically in need of aging

Camille Giroud Bourgogne - now $20 or so. Bought a case of each from the 2004 and 2005 vintages for early drinking and have enjoyed every bottle.

More generally, any burgundy that's a Becky Wasserman Selection.

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Originally posted by ArieS:
I would go with Bouchard Beaune du Chateau or Jadot Theurons.
Also don't forget Savigny-les-Beaunes for 'budget' wines that deliver.

I'll second Bouchard Beaune du Chateau - a blend of various Beaune premier cru vineyards.