Folks

What are your thoughts on bidding (in auctions) on wines with one or more of the following faults. Would you bid? How much would you discount the price (relative to current auction value)? I have until now avoided bottles with seepage or elevated corks, or below top shoulder.

- seepage

- elevated cork

- depressed cork

- corroded capsule

- damaged capsule

- wine stained label

- uleage below top shoulder

Best

jhcolman
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by jhcolman:
Folks

What are your thoughts on bidding (in auctions) on wines with one or more of the following faults. Would you bid? How much would you discount the price (relative to current auction value)? I have until now avoided bottles with seepage or elevated corks, or below top shoulder.

- seepage - I don't bid on these

- elevated cork - Slight is not a deal-breaker for me.

- depressed cork - Slight is not a deal-breaker for me

- corroded capsule - If cork and ullage are good, I almost expect some corrosion on an older bottle if it has been cellared propery. Some exterior mold/corrosion is to be expected with long-term storage in high-humidity (70%) conditions

- damaged capsule - if the damage is cosmetic and I intend to drink the wine, I don't care too much.

- wine stained label - I'm buying to drink. If everything else is good, I don't care.

- uleage below top shoulder - totally depends on the wine and the age... Unless it's a really old bottle of burg/bordeaux, I tend to avoid these

Best

jhcolman
quote:
Originally posted by jhcolman:
Folks

What are your thoughts on bidding (in auctions) on wines with one or more of the following faults. Would you bid? How much would you discount the price (relative to current auction value)? I have until now avoided bottles with seepage or elevated corks, or below top shoulder.

Assuming we're talking about "special" auction bottles which are known of good provenance and are not auctioned by Spectrum ( Eek)

- seepage alert..uhh...extreme alert

- elevated cork happens often with older bottles, though, this needs to be seen in the "overall" impressions

- depressed cork not a deal breaker if slight

- corroded capsule happens a lot, certainly not a dealbreaker

- damaged capsule happens a lot, certainly not a dealbreaker


- wine stained label happens a lot, certainly not a dealbreaker


- uleage below top shoulder alert but this can fit well in the overall look of the bottle ie. colour, fill and look (capsule, cork, glass and label(s)

Before the 1980's it's all about the "overall" look, after that all should be pristine (on auction)
"Seepage" can mean different things. On JJBuckley/WineCommune, "Signs of slight seepage" may simply mean that the foil does not move; i.e. that it is adherent to the glass. I don't worry about that, as long as the fill level is good and the cork is not raised. On the other hand, if there is visible wine residue, then I don't bid.

A raised or protruding cork is usually a deal-breaker for me, as it often indicates heat exposure and cooked wine.

A depressed cork could indicate air entry into the bottle and oxidized wine, but if the fill level is good then I may still bid on the bottle.

For a high-shouldered Bordeaux-style bottle, the fill level should be into the neck for anything less than 30 years old. For a 30-50 year old bottle, the fill level should be top shoulder or higher. I bid higher for a higher fill, lower for a lower fill. I have a 1974 BV GdL with a high-neck fill that I look forward to opening soon.

In general, Bordeaux wines often have lower fills than American wines of the same age. I recently bought two bottles of 2000 Montrose that look like-new except for very top shoulder fill levels, which the seller did not disclose. I'm not thrilled about that, but will hope for the best. I'll let you know how they taste around 2020.
Seepage: I'm not a fan of anything that has seepage.
That said, Port is the one exception. If all else is good, small 'signs' of seepage of corrosive capsule is no issue for me.

A raised or protruding cork: PASS. I will not consider further

A depressed cork: If all else is appropriate, I would typically still Buy.

Capsule condition: Something to note wile assessing overall condition. That's about it.

Fill level: a BIG deal. Sets the whole stage of likely provenance.

Label condition: I'm in the 'buy to drink camp' and appreciate the typically lower price required.
quote:
Originally posted by KSC02:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
if it's to do witht he label eh. who cares

I once purchased an '82 Angelus from PC that had the label cellophane wrapped to the bottle. Big Grin

The wine inside showed beautifully.


bought a 55 Dows' where the label was a yellow post it note hand written with 1955 dow's

open the cork and it was a 63 Cockburn Mad
quote:
Originally posted by jhcolman:
Folks

What are your thoughts on bidding (in auctions) on wines with one or more of the following faults. Would you bid? How much would you discount the price (relative to current auction value)? I have until now avoided bottles with seepage or elevated corks, or below top shoulder.

- seepage Wouldn't touch it

- elevated cork Wouldn't touch it

- depressed cork Would consider slightly depressed cork, if ullage, colour and capsule look ok

- corroded capsule Not an issue to me

- damaged capsule Not an issue to me

- wine stained label Not an issue to me

- uleage below top shoulder Wouldn't touch unless it is 50+ years old

Best

jhcolman
quote:
Originally posted by finz:
for very old bottles would you ever consider the uleage too high that you'd question its authenticity?


Color too

if i spotted a 50 year old wine with perfect fills and is still dark red with very little sediment.. too good to be true.
I am amazed at how certain flawed bottles become "bid up" at auction. I understand lower fill levels with old wines. Stained labels don't really matter to me. However, if the capsule is damaged or if there is evidence of seepage, heat damage, or general poor handling, them I'm not interested in the wine at all.
quote:
Originally posted by finz:
for very old bottles would you ever consider the uleage too high that you'd question its authenticity?


Definitely -- I'd say anything higher than bottom neck on a 30+ year old Bordeaux would be somewhat suspicious.

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