At the restaurant. How do you order wine before seeing the food menu ???

I wait to see the food menu and then make my choice after deciding on food.

sd, funny enough, you did everything right.

did you order a cheese course?

Funny enough, I asked the waiter, who might have been a former daylaborer for all I know, "So what should I have with the pork chop? Is Cabernet too much?"

He gave me a side by side testing of Cab and his recc. of Malbec. They tasted similar to me. Both tannic.

The girl I was with probably was impressed. At my humility to ask his advice (Malbec), yet his taking my own suggestion (Cab) seriously enough to do the side by side.

There were other, older people sitting at tables nearby, and this place is somewhat upscale, so I was feeling self-conscious about this side by side thing he presented (like they can see through me), but I held my ground, tasted both, and went with his recc.

One would have to be an idiot to order wine without knowing what they were eating.

as unserious as this thread(poster) may be , i disagree. i usually start with a glass of white, regardless of what i am going to eat. unknowing what i am going to eat...

i don't feel like an idiot...

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:
One would have to be an idiot to order wine without knowing what they were eating.

quote:

Originally posted by TBird:
as unserious as this thread(poster) may be , i disagree. i usually start with a glass of white, regardless of what i am going to eat. unknowing what i am going to eat...

i don't feel like an idiot...

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:
One would have to be an idiot to order wine without knowing what they were eating.

I also start with a glass of white or bubbles before I order the meal.

Board-O, you can add me to the idiot list.

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:
One would have to be an idiot to order wine without knowing what they were eating.

That's rather harsh. A lot of people don't care about pairing their wine with their food. A glass of wine that they really enjoy is more than satisfying with a great dinner...regardless of the pairing.

That said, I generally order Champagne as soon as I see the list...then figure things out from there as we enjoy it.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple Teeth:
Board-O, you can add me to the idiot list.

I did that quite a long time ago.

Then why would the waiter give us the wine list FIRST? Is this bad protocol? Come to think of it, I usually get food and wine menu together. What a dick. I should have said something, but the place was fancy, so I was on the defensive.

If the waiter doesn't bring both the wine last and the menu together, ask to have the missing item brought before you make any decisions, assuming a good pairing is important to you.

Don't get too pissed off too quickly SD. While he should have presented both the wine list and menus together, IMO, it's not uncommon to have the wine list presented first. They can be fairly lengthy and involved, and take a little time to browse, while you can evaluate what type of meal you may want, to go with the wine. Different people decide it both ways. Some choose the wine first and then pair a dinner with it. Others choose their meal first and then choose their wine. There is not just one correct way. Both are fine. Your choice.

The only 'issue' I have with your waiter was pushing the Malbec as a wine that goes with everything. He lost his stripes for that one.

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:
One would have to be an idiot to order wine without knowing what they were eating.

Sometimes I like to order my food around what kind of Wine I feel like drinking that night. Call me an idiot but sometimes wine takes precedence.

quote:

Originally posted by masonjp:

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:
One would have to be an idiot to order wine without knowing what they were eating.

Sometimes I like to order my food around what kind of Wine I feel like drinking that night. Call me an idiot but sometimes wine takes precedence.

No, I agree. I'll reword it: One would have to be an idiot to order wine without knowing what they were eating or ordering food without knowing what wine they were drinking.

The idea is to get a good pairing in order to enjoy the total experience as much as possible.

Ideally, a party of 4 is seated. I ask for a wine menu since most of us do not like cocktails. No one is sure what he/she willhave for starters much less mains, so I usually order Champagne. Most often it is a nonvintage, priced in the $50-75 range. I ask what starters everyone is thinking about. Most often we will order a few and share. I suggest a cheese plate of 3 or 5 cheeses. Others usually get some type of seafood like shrimp, crab etc. That speaks for a Sav Blanc or in some cases a Chardonnay. I try to disuade those who want a Pino Grigo. I actually like to order blended whites like Conundrum or an nice white Italian like a Zuani. For mains, I ask for the som. I tell him/her what we are all ordering and ask him/her to find us 2 bottles that work with our mains at a price point of about $100 each or less. We usually skip a dessert wine, but often the restaurants sends us something

I don't.

So I select a heavy red, and wind up with a white fish. Never.

I see what is on list, choose a few selections, and then based upon what is ordered pare the list down further.

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:

quote:

Originally posted by Purple Teeth:
Board-O, you can add me to the idiot list.

I did that quite a long time ago.

Can't say I didn't set that one up...but Wow! A cheap shot...How out of character for you, Board-O.

Nothing idiotic about sipping a aperitif while simultaneously perusing the wine list and menu for a proper match. A fine way to start a meal, and a pleasurable process I'd recommend to any idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple Teeth:
A fine way to start a meal, and a pleasurable process I'd recommend to any idiot.

Actually, that's the only type of individual I would recommend that to. I look at both the menu and the wine list before deciding on either. That's a pleasurable process I'd recommend to any non-idiot. I guess if attempting to find the best pairing possible is not important to you, as it is to me, your way is just fine.

Bore-doh, maybe you should actually read other's posts before you commence your juvenile attacks. Prehaps then you wouldn't come off looking like such a moron; just the petty, bitter, jerk that you are.

Anyone who enjoys an aperitif before dinner is an idiot? Whatever, we all know who is the real idiot here.

Isn't it time to feed the pigs?

Why, are you hungry?

Gee, I didn't know indulging in juvenile humor could be so much fun. Lighten up Board-O!

A good resturant will present both documents at same time. Some times that ask if I'd like the list, if I don't nail them for it first.

If I was at a bar,I'd drink wine and forget about food. At a resturant I go for both. Never order wine 1st, if you do your stuck with a food pairing that may be impossible for others folks desires.

If a decision is not forthcoming as to what folks wish to est, may times I'll ask for a good riesling to get over the hump. At times I'll not finish the glass as this forces folks to get off first base.

Serial Dater - they're in business to make money and they make it by turning their inventory. They want you to order some wine and then look over the menu while they bring you something to nibble on. The hope is that you order a different wine once you've made your menu selection. As a rule of thumb, if they don't get the second bottle on the table by the time your main dish comes, the customer isn't likely to order a second bottle. It's also why they keep hovering around and topping off your glass so that they can ask if you want another bottle.

It's not nefarious, but it's irritating. So you can take several approaches. Ignore them and tell them you won't order wine until you decide on your food. That's not belligerent, it's simply a statement akin to saying you'd prefer the fish to the lamb. Or you can do as some people suggest and have a white as an apertif. Or a red. Or whatever.

If I'm with my wife, we'll almost never have more than one bottle, so I just tell them I want to see the menu. Sometimes I see a bottle I really want and I plan my food around that, sometimes there's a dish I really want and plan the wine around that. But sometimes you want to try a dish and a wine that don't work at all together but you order them anyway because you only live once and two separates can still be good even tho they don't sum well.

But your guy sounded cool. He may have been a day laborer, in fact he sounds like it because he didn't try to act snotty but he let you try a couple things side by side. Not interested in pushing his own preference on you. I'd go back to that place. Sounds great.

Finally - you had pork chops? You had a riesling? Germans love pork.

Beer aside, what do you think they drink with it?

quote:

Originally posted by GregT:

Beer aside, what do you think they drink with it?

From a german friend ... "More beer"

Yeah. That's probably true. But let's say they were drinking wine that night.

a pinot gris from oregon?

"Pinot gris = pinot grigio = oenological disorder" - GregT, 2008

pinot grigio = italian clone, pinot gris = fromenteau from burgundy...

quote:

Originally posted by GregT:
"Pinot gris = pinot grigio = oenological disorder" - GregT, 2008

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:
One would have to be an idiot to order wine without knowing what they were eating.

Personally I decide what wine I'm drinking before I even leave the house. Thank $DEITY for BYO

Why not just order a martini at the start of the dinner process? What if you are presented with canapes when you are seated before you are given menus/wine list? Then what? It's not that difficult, never has been, never will be! Amuse bouche arrives, by this time you should be aware of the items you will be eating. You most likely have had ample time to select an appropriate wine to go with selected items(on your own or with help).

I once asked for a pretty dental assistant when I had a root canal because I knew ahead of time what i was getting into.

Serial,

Eat what you want and drink what you want. Sure, you'll probably want to avoid a rich Cabernet with the sole, but if you don't like a particular combo, fine, avoid it next time. If you're "dating" as much as you indicate you are in other threads, spending time stressing about what to pair with what will make you come off as a dork. Definately Un-

quote:

Nothing idiotic about sipping an aperitif while simultaneously perusing the wine list and menu for a proper match. A fine way to start a meal, and a pleasurable process I'd recommend to any idiot.

Indeed. I have ordered a glass of Champagne blind many times while looking over the menu and wine list in congunction with each other and selecting the bottle(s) I'll have with dinner.

I do whatever strikes me at the moment. Sometimes I'll order a cocktail or glass of Champagne and sip it while perusing the menu first and the wine list second. Sometimes I'll just sip the water on the table while I peruse the menu first and the wine list second. In both scenarios I keep shooing the waiter away until I've had ample time to properly evaluate both the menu and the wine list before making my selections for the evening.

I don't post very much, but I have to say everytime Board-O posts its always negative and is getting quite tiresome. Give it a rest won't you.

quote:

Posted Sep 09, 2008 12:32 AM Hide Post
pinot grigio = italian clone, pinot gris = fromenteau from burgundy... Wink Popcorn

What do the French know? They also called it Tokay d'Alsace. Hungary didn't like that. "Well what could we call it?" they were asked.

"Why, szürkebarát of course," they said.

"WTF!" the French replied.

Besides, they already had another perfectly good French name, Auxerrois Gris. But they're a quarrelsome lot and the people who were already using that name don't get along with the people who aren't.

Of course, most people just say Crvena Klevanjka and call it a day. I've always preferred Ruländer or Grauburgunder or Grauer burgunder or Grauklevner or Grauer Mönch.

Fromentau? Sounds like hausfrau. Fromentot? Sounds like her little brat. There are some other names. The way to actually identify it is to try it. If it's no good, it's probably pinot gris/grigio/Grauburgunder or whatever.

I wouldn't have it as an apertif though. It would ruin the meal. People who make it have a thought disorder. It's yet ANOTHER reason to BASH them in the head.

Oh, this ordering thing is so detailed and confusing... I think I'll just eat at home from now on...

Come on, guys, dining out is supposed to be a pleasant and enjoyable experience.

quote:

Originally posted by indybob:
Serial,

Eat what you want and drink what you want. Sure, you'll probably want to avoid a rich Cabernet with the sole, but if you don't like a particular combo, fine, avoid it next time. If you're "dating" as much as you indicate you are in other threads, spending time stressing about what to pair with what will make you come off as a dork. Definately Un-

Yeah, if I were on a date the last thing I'd be thinking about is some wine-food pairing.

Obviously I'd prefer if they give me both menus at the same time, so I can at least have an idea of what type of food I might want to order. When my wife and I go out, it is very rare that we order more than one bottle of wine with dinner, and neither of us are much for cocktails anymore. Of course, since she always gives me that "order what you want, don't worry about what I'm eating" bit, I've learned to tell the server that I will be ordering wine, but let me think about it for a bit, then figure out what we are eating and order something appropriate. This normally means that first I have to figure out what she is going to order and then figure out the wine. However, I have one thing going for me, no matter what she orders, she is always happy if I order a good Pinot Noir, she loves the stuff.

wow, for a second there, i confused you with reff, dismissing an entire varietal without any logical basis.

what, did some kid named Gris used to beat you up in kindegarten or something?

quote:

Originally posted by GregT:
What do the French know? They also called it Tokay d'Alsace. Hungary didn't like that. "Well what could we call it?" they were asked.

"Why, szürkebarát of course," they said.

"WTF!" the French replied.

Besides, they already had another perfectly good French name, Auxerrois Gris. But they're a quarrelsome lot and the people who were already using that name don't get along with the people who aren't.

Of course, most people just say Crvena Klevanjka and call it a day. I've always preferred Ruländer or Grauburgunder or Grauer burgunder or Grauklevner or Grauer Mönch.

Fromentau? Sounds like hausfrau. Fromentot? Sounds like her little brat. There are some other names. The way to actually identify it is to try it. If it's no good, it's probably pinot gris/grigio/Grauburgunder or whatever.

I wouldn't have it as an apertif though. It would ruin the meal. People who make it have a thought disorder. It's yet ANOTHER reason to BASH them in the head.

Safeest method is to order a Champagne/Prosecco while you decide. After you select sides and main, order accordingly. Ask the som for some advice. I like Sav Blanc (New Zealand or Cali Russian River) with my starters since most times I get salad, shrimp, or something like that. Mains are usually mixed, so Burgundy is a nice compromise. Seldom unless I get a steak will I get a Cali Cab. I prefer Bordeaux.