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quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Patrick Cariou, stop now, Richard Price will win again and the SCOUS will not hear the case.

This lead me to read this case, Koons Vs. Rogers where Koons tried to claim it was fair use under the parody exemption. I don't think it's parody, but it sure is a horrifying (in a good way) sculpture.


It is a digital / cyberspace world and no one is selling under false pretense. The music world had to come to terms with all this years ago. So will the art world.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
A summary of a WSJ article from the LA Times:
Amazon To Sell Fine Art

W+A, would this affect your desire to acquire a gallery?


OM, thanks for the link.

Does not affect my thinking. Internet is a major buying power now, ( have used MANY times) both as an auction tool and for galleries.

The art market has their sales venues based on type, style and price range.

I will email you my business model.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
A summary of a WSJ article from the LA Times:
Amazon To Sell Fine Art

W+A, would this affect your desire to acquire a gallery?


OM, thanks for the link.

Does not affect my thinking. Internet is a major buying power now, ( have used MANY times) both as an auction tool and for galleries.

The art market has their sales venues based on type, style and price range.

I will email you my business model.

Kool.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
A summary of a WSJ article from the LA Times:
Amazon To Sell Fine Art

W+A, would this affect your desire to acquire a gallery?


OM, thanks for the link.

Does not affect my thinking. Internet is a major buying power now, ( have used MANY times) both as an auction tool and for galleries.

The art market has their sales venues based on type, style and price range.

I will email you my business model.

Kool.


OM, email me at wineplusart@hotmail.com... please.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
VinT,

Did you ever receive your latest commission?

Bang


Vin, I feel your pain. Frown

I had a chat with an artist yesterday about the very same thing.


How are you doing with the Puig acquisition? I very much enjoy his work, which I was not familiar with before your mention of him here.
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
VinT,

Did you ever receive your latest commission?

Bang


Vin, I feel your pain. Frown

I had a chat with an artist yesterday about the very same thing.


How are you doing with the Puig acquisition? I very much enjoy his work, which I was not familiar with before your mention of him here.


Well, Mad... we are still a skosh over $5k apart on pricing and we have not contacted each other in 2-3 weeks now.

I'm still confident, but the art market is heating up again.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
A summary of a WSJ article from the LA Times:
Amazon To Sell Fine Art

W+A, would this affect your desire to acquire a gallery?


OM, thanks for the link.

Does not affect my thinking. Internet is a major buying power now, ( have used MANY times) both as an auction tool and for galleries.

The art market has their sales venues based on type, style and price range.

I will email you my business model.

Kool.


OM, email me at ... please.


Old Man, I only check this account for this forum.

Are you D.W.? If so, I will email you from my gmail account.
I've spent a fair amount of time in Paris over the last 30 years. Both my wife and I really enjoy going to museums, so naturally we've been to the Louvre, the d'Orsay, and the Pompidou numerous times. We've also spent time seeking out lesser-known, smaller options such as the Picasso, l'Orangerie, Montmartre, Rodin, Decoratif, even the Freemasons, and countless galleries that we've wandered into and out of on lazy afternoons.

Imagine our surprise when, on our daily power walk along the Seine, we passed a sign advertising a Keith Haring exhibit at the Musée d'Art Moderne in Paris, and we had never heard of this place. Could they have meant the Pompidou? Curious about where this museum was, we checked its location on a portable GPS, and we were standing right in front of it! The place looks like a huge courthouse with classical pillars, not a museum of modern art.

We just came back from a wonderful half day there. The impressive and thorough Keith Haring exhibit is fantastic, with what must certainly be his finest-- and largest-- pieces, arranged chronologically and displayed beautifully in an amazing space. And their permanent collection is not too shabby, either, loaded with sculpture, painting, drawing, and some installation pieces by all the usual suspects but with a definite and not surprising emphasis on modern and contemporary French artists like Delaunay, Fautrier, many more, and Raoul Dufy with whom I was not previously familiar but must become so. There is one huge oval room with its expansive walls covered floor-to-ceiling by one piece (done in panels) called Electricity that you have to see to believe. Stunning, in both beauty and scope! There's a lot more than I have the time to describe here, including some fabulous Matisse pieces, but friends, if you find yourself in Paris and would like to spend a few hours away from the Big 3 museums looking at some incredible art, do yourself a favour and find this place on Avenue de President Wilson.

I can't recommend this exceptional venue highly enough. And as a bonus: admission to the permanent collection is free! My wife and I were both amazed by how few people were there on a Saturday, and just don't understand how that can be, with well over a million tourists in Paris for this holiday weekend, not to mention the locals.
Seaquam, I could have sworn I posted for your attention not to miss Musee d'Art Monderne on your current visit in one of the active threads related to you and S's Paris holiday. I must be slipping.

I'm excited you found this jewel, and even more to hear how much you enjoyed their works and the Haring exhibit.

My first visit was right after college, and I still recall seeing a Modigliani and Leger in person for the first time. If I recall correctly, the museum was only about 20 years old on my first visit.

Paris has embraced both modern and contemporary art far more than Italy, one of our other favorite places to visit often. The modern in Florence closed last summer shortly after our visit.

D and I adore Paris, and your post have absolutely made my/our week. Summering over in Santa Fe is wonderful, but Paris it is not. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:

Seaquam, I could have sworn I posted for your attention not to miss Musee d'Art Monderne on your current visit in one of the active threads related to you and S's Paris holiday. I must be slipping.

I'm excited you found this jewel, and even more to hear how much you enjoyed their works and the Haring exhibit.

My first visit was right after college, and I still recall seeing a Modigliani and Leger in person for the first time. If I recall correctly, the museum was only about 20 years old on my first visit.



I could not do it justice in just a few sentences; the building itself is lovely, its interior being quite different from what its rear facade would suggest. And the Haring exhibit alone had to be over 200 pieces, spread through numerous rooms, some huge. I didn't know that he had also done some interesting sculpture.

The Raoul Dufy piece, La Fée Electricité ( The Electricity Fairy) is the biggest piece I have ever seen other than murals on the outsides of large buildings; it was profound, awe-inspiring, very exciting.

We also spent about 20 minutes watching only a portion-- I'm not sure this actually ever comes to an end-- of a fascinating, bizarre film about a chap who's looking for an existing dinosaur in central Africa, The Mokele-Mbembe Hypothesis. Anyone who's interested can learn a bit about it right HERE.

I could have spent a couple of days here, and will certainly be back. We had originally also intended today to visit the Marc Chagall exhibit currently at the Luxembourg Gardens, but skipped that entirely in favour of remaining at the Moderne. It was a Wow! experience for me; I'm not certain how many times I used the word "fantastic" earlier today, but it was definitely an excessive number.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
VinT,

Did you ever receive your latest commission?

Bang


Vin, I feel your pain. Frown

I had a chat with an artist yesterday about the very same thing.


How are you doing with the Puig acquisition? I very much enjoy his work, which I was not familiar with before your mention of him here.


Well, Mad... we are still a skosh over $5k apart on pricing and we have not contacted each other in 2-3 weeks now.

I'm still confident, but the art market is heating up again.


VinT,

We appear to have some movement on a Mimmo Paladino work, which could help on my pursuit of a couple of Puig pieces.

Let the gamesmanship continue. Wink
Spent this afternoon at the wonderful McMichael Gallery in Kleinburg, Ontario. In addition to their extensive Group of Seven collection, they also currently have exhibitions featuring works by Ansel Adams and Edward Burtynsky.

If you haven't been to this gallery, or it has been a while, I highly recommend a visit. The grounds have been re-landscaped and now include a sculpture park featuring nine imposing bronzes by Ivan Eyre. The gallery building itself is magnificent - part log, part stone architecture that stays true to the style of the original McMichael family home. And the paintings within capture the spirit and rugged beauty of the Canadian wilderness as only original Group of Seven works can.
Hello everybody. I'm new to this thread. I just donated a C-top stationmaster's desk to the Union Pacific Transcontinental Museum in Ogden, Utah last year. It was my fathers and his grandfathers before it was his. The museum was thrilled to get it and they had it crated and shipped from Western NY. I just didn't know what to do with it. I was a museum brat, and dragged to many museums during my childhood through High School, but the later were voluntary.

I thank my mother, a big art fan, for taking me to see the King Tut exhibit in Los Angeles, same with the Aztec and May exhibits there. I spent many a day at the Getty, Norton-simon or Huntington museums and have great memories. We moved to the NYC metro area and I spent a couple of weeks over time in the Met, and occasionally went to the Guggenheim and the Whitney. We finally went back to California, but the Bay Area. My mom got her art History degree and was a docent at the Museum near Golden Gate park. I can't think of the name off the top of my head, but my art history teacher, who also taught at UC Santa Cruz, got us in an hour before the general public was allowed into the Impressionist show, which was really special. I went again the next day with my mother and it was standing room only.

Art is still a passion, as I have many museum quality reproductions in my great room, most are impressionist. I also love art of the renaissance, gothic, mezzo-american and so many others. I do love some modern and old colonial. Its good to see that art and wine has a home here. I usually am on CT forum and we have a few museum art directors on there.
Cheers, -Dave
As some of you may have heard Jeffrey Deitch is out as director of MOCA. He was formerly a major art dealer in New York and an early proponent of graffiti as art. He has had a very bad time during his three years here. There has been much internal strife and much criticism of some of the shows. He will be returning to NY to open a gallery.

I am hoping that we will see the return of MOCA as one of the top tier art museums in the US.
quote:
Originally posted by champagneinhand1:
Hello everybody. I'm new to this thread. I just donated a C-top stationmaster's desk to the Union Pacific Transcontinental Museum in Ogden, Utah last year. It was my fathers and his grandfathers before it was his. The museum was thrilled to get it and they had it crated and shipped from Western NY. I just didn't know what to do with it. I was a museum brat, and dragged to many museums during my childhood through High School, but the later were voluntary.

I thank my mother, a big art fan, for taking me to see the King Tut exhibit in Los Angeles, same with the Aztec and May exhibits there. I spent many a day at the Getty, Norton-simon or Huntington museums and have great memories. We moved to the NYC metro area and I spent a couple of weeks over time in the Met, and occasionally went to the Guggenheim and the Whitney. We finally went back to California, but the Bay Area. My mom got her art History degree and was a docent at the Museum near Golden Gate park. I can't think of the name off the top of my head, but my art history teacher, who also taught at UC Santa Cruz, got us in an hour before the general public was allowed into the Impressionist show, which was really special. I went again the next day with my mother and it was standing room only.

Art is still a passion, as I have many museum quality reproductions in my great room, most are impressionist. I also love art of the renaissance, gothic, mezzo-american and so many others. I do love some modern and old colonial. Its good to see that art and wine has a home here. I usually am on CT forum and we have a few museum art directors on there.
Cheers, -Dave


Dave, welcome to the forums, and thanks for posting within this thread.

While I'm thinking our views on art are vastly different, I'm glad you posted and please do not be a stranger.

w+a
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
As some of you may have heard Jeffrey Deitch is out as director of MOCA. He was formerly a major art dealer in New York and an early proponent of graffiti as art. He has had a very bad time during his three years here. There has been much internal strife and much criticism of some of the shows. He will be returning to NY to open a gallery.

I am hoping that we will see the return of MOCA as one of the top tier art museums in the US.


Ah, curious timing, Old Man.

I met a gallery owner ( one of our very favorites) here in Santa Fe for espresso this week, and this very subject was one of our many topics.

My thoughts...

First, the trustees need to look towards the Board in my opinion. Now that said, I think the Board was thinking out of the box with their hiring of Deitch. I serve on four Boards and do have empathy with their thinking and problems. The hire just did not work.

Deitch took over a nearly broke museum in poor shape and did not have the skill set required for the massive undertaking. Jeffery is a true rock star in the gallery art world and also has a MBA from Harvard, so I'm guessing there was thinking this might be the fix. I see two glaring problems. First, his job requires great admin skills to manage a large staff, unlimited volunteers, ( never easy) fundraising, education and unlimited full-time political ass kissing with both the Board and trustees like Eli Broad and Soros. None of those skill sets were heavily required in his past business successes. Secondly, there is an abyss between the art gallery world and the museum art world. The museum art world is too often the safe and tidy place for masses to view what others have deemed important and even pre-approved art, if you will. The serious gallery world is far FAR more avant garde, forward thinking and confident in their opinions about art, and even help define what will be displayed in museums decades from now.

Think about the great 291 gallery in NYC in 1905 - forward. Their truly avant garde art was nowhere to be found in the museum world in the early 20th century, but now every modern museum in the world has the artist they displayed and first introduced to the masses. The gallery world is where Deitch has proven himself, not the foolproof museum world. You mention street art. Street art is real, serious and will stand the test of time, yet museums will only start to expose it as serious art as their masses start to think it is safe and even pre-approved by their neighbors.

The next hire for MOCA is critical as they have a near decade of decline now. With the woes of the European art museums, perhaps a hire from the other side of the pond may be in order, but the board must give Deitch's replacement far more money. Deitch barely had enough to buy anyone lunch.

I wish them well.
File under 'architectural': we spent the better part of this afternoon at this gem. As known prior, the house itself was closed on Fridays and thus we could not see the interior/collection, but the building and grounds are spectacular, complete with docile deer begging for potato chips, and a decent lunch at the garden/koi pond.

Stamford proper is also two thumbs up.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Spent the day enjoying many works by Agnes Martin. Cool

They have a few very nice works, often on display, at our own San Diego Museum of Contemporary Art.


I'm heading to San Diego next month. Is the museum worthy of a visit?

As you know, she spent much of her life in Taos, and there are many wonderful pieces in Taos / Santa Fe.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
I'm heading to San Diego next month. Is the museum worthy of a visit?


The MCASD is really a mixed bag. First it's in three building--one in La Jolla and two across the street from each other downtown. The La Jolla is originally a house designed by the great Irving Gill. The original building is pretty much destroyed and the last remodeling by Robert Stern.

The downtown location, during your visit has a major show of San Diego and Tijuana artists. I think you'd like about 20% of the works.

There is also a nice Lisa Lou bead piece, have you ever seen her fun, but silly, beaded kitchen?

The La Jolla location will be installing some uninspiring work between Sept. 1 to 23.

There are of course a couple of interesting galleries in La Jolla.

I pretty much never visit the San Diego Museum of Art in Balboa Park.

Our most interesting place is up in my neck of the woods, The Lux Institute. It has a gallery space and a house. The gallery shows work by one artist and during the first month, they also live on site, will work on a piece. You can interact with the artist. Their work remains in place for another month after they leave.

Two of our favorites were Alison Saar, Betty’s daughter and an American who lives in Italy, Alan Feltus. During September is will be Matthew Cusick who appears to have had a showing in Dallas last year at the Reading Room.

Lastly I would be glad to take you, and anyone else, to see Salvation Mountain, but it’s a really haul taking a little more than 2 hours one way.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
I was not in the mood to sleep last night and spent a few hours focused on Keith Haring.

What are fellow art enthusiast opinions on Haring?


I enjoy the "playful" visual quality of Haring's work, and his use of vibrant primary colors. That's purely from an aesthetic perspective.

But, I very much respect the socio-political mission behind his work. He did a great deal for HIV/AIDS awareness and support programs which has benefited tens of thousands of individuals and continues to do so.

I once went to the Museum of Modern art in San Francisco with an old girlfriend. The beautiful Haring statue is in the front and a few select pieces inside expressing some typical Haring birth and death imagery. The only thing the woman I was dating could say was that the "pictures" were silly and childish . . . and that signaled the end of that
And I would add that it is amazing how accessible his art is almost in a way that belies the underlying message. I know many people who enjoy his work yet know little of his cause or politics. So, I think he accomplished something rare -- he produced works that are visually interesting to many people and have a terrific communicative value for those interested in delving into his art more thoroughly
I'm going to have to throw it in here, I was never a big fan. Reviewing before I wrote this I read that he was originally a cartoonist and perhaps that's the problem. I grew up in the time of the great "underground" comix such as those of R. Crumb, Jay Lynch and Vaughn Bode. While most of the times you will find riotous over-exaggerated characters you'd also come across scenes with purity of line that predates Haring. You'd also find scenes of surrealism and beauty. So when I first began to see Haring's work I pretty much passed it off as the tail end of this movement but made more popular with scenes of family and brotherly love. But I've never seen a full exhibition so perhaps I'm blowing this out of my ass.

My sister, whose a graduate of the Art Institute(and therefore not an artist) was always a fan.

Back to comix for a moment: A knock on them was they were often misogynistic and had other disturbing elements. All of this is explored in what I think is one of the great documentaries of the last 20 years Crumb. Here you have three mentally sick brothers one of whom is saved by art and commercial success.
quote:
Originally posted by KSC02:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
One of my business partners attended an art auction. At the auction an original Arnold Newman ( 1954) photograph was up for bid, and when he saw it he thought of me.

It could be none other than the FB pic (from Vallauris, France) and what a great gift. Bravo!

A FaceBook pic? I hoping I'll go, "duh" when you say what it stands for.
quote:
Originally posted by KSC02:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
One of my business partners attended an art auction. At the auction an original Arnold Newman ( 1954) photograph was up for bid, and when he saw it he thought of me.

It could be none other than the FB pic (from Vallauris, France) and what a great gift. Bravo!


Indeed... a wonderful 2'x3' original. Cool
quote:
Originally posted by mangiare:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Old Man:
Reviewing before I wrote this I read that he was originally a cartoonist and perhaps that's the problem.

Did you mean "illustrator"?

It's my understanding that his father was a cartoonist, and Haring had a great interest in cartoon. He emulated his early heroes' works before turning public. Though I'm not an expert I did check two different sites for that information.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by mangiare:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Old Man:
Reviewing before I wrote this I read that he was originally a cartoonist and perhaps that's the problem.

Did you mean "illustrator"?

It's my understanding that his father was a cartoonist, and Haring had a great interest in cartoon. He emulated his early heroes' works before turning public. Though I'm not an expert I did check two different sites for that information.


Thanks for the info. I was not aware.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
The Gregor Schneider exhibit Secret looks interesting at the Edinburgh Art Festival.

I've had two minor injuries from viewing art works. One was bashing my head on a beam, in the dark, in Schneider's Dead House Ur at MOCA about 9 years ago.


I never thought of viewing art a dangerous. Wink
Spent an afternoon in Montreal touring Beaux-Arts and their Chihuly exhibit. Whatever your opinion of Mr. Chihuly, this exhibit certainly showcases how far he has pushed the medium of glass.

Then we went to the Redpath Museum on the McGill grounds and were blown away. Not because of any fantastic or unusual works of art, but because it was like stepping into a time machine and traveling back to the nineteenth century. Creaky wooden floors, dusty glass cases, fossils, mummies and shrunken heads evoked childhood memories of our first museum visits. Very fun.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Andy Warhol would have been 85 today.

I was having espresso with an art dealer recently that knew Andy well. We both were thinking Andy would be shocked ( and disappointed) at how much his art is selling for today compared to the time of his death, and in disbelief how influential his art has become.

I do love the movie I Shot Andy Warhol. There's no doubt that wacko shortened his life.
VinT, do not lose faith in getting your long awaited piece.

I finally had a breakthrough for my Puig piece. The gallery owner was talking to Agusti recently and told him I had been negotiating all year for one of his pieces. Agusti told the gallery owner that if this man wants my work in his home, get the picture in his home. Cool

I now own both the Puig and a Paladino, which is good for my soul.
Last edited by wine+art
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:I now own both the Puig and a Paladino, which is good for my sole.

You're not going to wear them on your feet are you? Razz

Congrats on this and neat to hear the artist himself help to get it done.


LOL

I really must remove the predictive function from my iPad. Mad

Now that said, it really does make for some LOL text.
quote:
Originally posted by KSC02:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by KSC02:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
I now own...the Puig

Cool Bravo

Sent you a poor iPhone email of the work.

Just saw the picture. Instantly one of my favorite of the pieces I know you have.
Love it. I must see this in person some day!


K, you are one of the few ( did I just say that?) on this forum with a keen eye for art. Wink
I saw the the great Sir Norman Foster resigned from the expansion of the Pushkin Museum of Fine Arts.

Good for Foster. The expansion will end up being nothing more than a billion dollar disaster with deep corruption.

Now, if the new Barnes Foundation building would simply burn to the ground, it would be a great week. I had to drive by the place this past week. Frown
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Now, if the new Barnes Foundation building would simply burn to the ground, it would be a great week. I had to drive by the place this past week. Frown


Eek I'm assuming you want them to take out the art first.


No, art included.

Albert Barnes would burn the art himself if he could. The theft of his art is now in the hands of the very people he never wanted to have it.
quote:
Originally posted by ThistlinTom:
Saw a few Hyunmee Lee works in Salt Lake CitY and in Park City today. I liked them much more in person than viewing on the web.


Viewing in person can often changes your opinion.

Lee is represented at one of my favorite galleries here in Santa Fe, and is a serious and highly collectible artist.

Gald you enjoyed, and a wise purchase if you pulled the trigger.

On a side note, the gallery director is in my wine group in SF, and will be attending our ceremony today.
If you own any work by Christopher Wool ( Chicago native) now based in NYC you might consider selling some of his work if you ever sell off any of your art.

His works were often available for under six figures 10-15 years ago. The current auction market has his work going from $500k-$7 million plus.

As limited as his work is, this may not be a bubble.
Wine+art . . .

I think you might be the perfect person for this question.

I have been looking for one of the limited edition prints of Alfred Eisenstaedt's "Children at Puppet Theatre" for quite some time (produced by Circle Gallery I believe, representing the Time Life collection). I saw one 3 years ago on Martha's Vineyard and for whatever reason did not purchase at the time. Now I can't find the print from any reliable source.

Any recs?
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
Wine+art . . .

I think you might be the perfect person for this question.

I have been looking for one of the limited edition prints of Alfred Eisenstaedt's "Children at Puppet Theatre" for quite some time (produced by Circle Gallery I believe, representing the Time Life collection). I saw one 3 years ago on Martha's Vineyard and for whatever reason did not purchase at the time. Now I can't find the print from any reliable source.

Any recs?


What a special piece.

There is a place in the Buckhead part of Atlanta, Jackson Fine Art. I would contact them. If they do not have what you want, I would trust their advice even though Jane no longer owns the gallery.

Good luck.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
Wine+art . . .

I think you might be the perfect person for this question.

I have been looking for one of the limited edition prints of Alfred Eisenstaedt's "Children at Puppet Theatre" for quite some time (produced by Circle Gallery I believe, representing the Time Life collection). I saw one 3 years ago on Martha's Vineyard and for whatever reason did not purchase at the time. Now I can't find the print from any reliable source.

Any recs?


What a special piece.

There is a place in the Buckhead part of Atlanta, Jackson Fine Art. I would contact them. If they do not have what you want, I would trust their advice even though Jane no longer owns the gallery.

Good luck.


Thanks! Going to give them a call today
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
Rob -- thanks. Going to call them as well

Gallery that wine&art referred me to has a very cool "negative strip" version of 3 of the "finalist" photos for Children at Puppet Theatre. Hoping to find the full size of the main pic (which I think was offered at 16x20); but this negative series is a good option so far.


Rob's recommendation is a wonderful and serious gallery. I dealt with a well informed lady there but cannot recall her name for the life of me. I have her name in Dallas, but still in Santa Fe until October. She was well educated in the art world and should be able to help in case Rob's guy is not available.

Good luck.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
Rob -- thanks. Going to call them as well

Gallery that wine&art referred me to has a very cool "negative strip" version of 3 of the "finalist" photos for Children at Puppet Theatre. Hoping to find the full size of the main pic (which I think was offered at 16x20); but this negative series is a good option so far.


Rob's recommendation is a wonderful and serious gallery. I dealt with a well informed lady there but cannot recall her name for the life of me. I have her name in Dallas, but still in Santa Fe until October. She was well educated in the art world and should be able to help in case Rob's guy is not available.

Good luck.


Rob and wine&art . . . thanks again!

This Eisenstadt picture of children's expressions is incredibly powerful and joyful. In my previous life, I was a child psychologist and considered buying this in ~1995 when it was released by the Circle Gallery in association with Time Life. The offer price was $1200 back then for a signed limited edition (of 250 print). As a grad student back then making $11,000 a year and accumulating student loans, there was no way I could make this purchase. This same print now auctions for ~30x the original price.

But, since this picture has been on my mind for the last 20 years, I figure it's high time to search for one of the more recent limited releases the sells more a less astronomic price

have great weekends all!
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
Speaking of early recognition of art that would eventually become famous and valuable, we saw a great documentary last night about Herbert and Dorothy Vogel. Fascinating story.


What an incredible life of art. Both were civil servants and Herb never made over $23k a year, yet never sold any of their art worth multi millions.
quote:
Originally posted by KSC02:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Both were civil servants and Herb never made over $23k a year, yet never sold any of their art worth multi millions.

A true collector for the love of the Art

I saw what I think is the same film at UNLV at a show of the 50 works they donated to the state of Nevada. While I think it was great what they did, there was also a little of the "disease" of hoarding in at least his makeup. They definitely created a fire trap which could have ended in disaster.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by ThistlinTom:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Started a conversation yesterday on a Jun Kaneko work.

We shall see.


What medium?


Painting.


Moving on. I have never had much luck or enjoyed working with this gallery in Santa Fe or at their Dallas location before they closed.

Going to start the process on Hyunmee Lee and David Rothermel pieces today. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by ThistlinTom:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Started a conversation yesterday on a Jun Kaneko work.

We shall see.


What medium?


Painting.


Moving on. I have never had much luck or enjoyed working with this gallery in Santa Fe or at their Dallas location before they closed.

Going to start the process on Hyunmee Lee and David Rothermel pieces today. Smile


So when you say you haven't had much luck working with them, is it in regards to negotiating a price for the art work? Do you typically negotiate on a price rather than buy it at list? Is there a general range that you look at in negotiating a price?
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Originally posted by KSC02:
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Originally posted by wine+art:
D was thinking we just buy it at the preview next week.

Perhaps... Smile

You ever run out of wall space, w+a, you just let me know Wink

I'm generous like that Big Grin


Big Grin ... I will keep this in mind, KSC02. We may very well need your help.

We rotated pieces for a number of years keeping works in storage. Now that the kids both have their first homes, and both love art as well, they have ( on loan D always points out) taken 60+ pieces to their homes. Smile

We are having fun hunting for new works for our Santa Fe walls.
I've got a question for you art buffs...

There's a Manet litho that I've fallen in love with, however, I can't find any prints for sale anywhere.

I've done a bit of research, and it appears that, as a result of the age of the work, the copyright has expired. Therefore, I am legally free to print my own reproduction.

My question is, do any of you have any experience having lithos printed, or recreated?

I'd like something of higher quality.

I'm doing some local research, but I'm curious if there's a more obvious solution.

The work, for those that are interested, is Guerre Civile
Thanks for replying, Old Man. I'm clearly beyond my scope here.

What I mean is that I really like Manet's Guerre Civile, and would like to have a nice reproduction of the piece mounted and framed for my home office.

Since I can't afford the original, but I don't want a poster, I'm wondering what my options are.

I can get my hands on a very high quality TIF/JPG to print out, but I'm trying to figure out the best way to go about printing it out.

Is this common? Weird? Dumb?

Thanks.
I don't know a lot (I think we know someone who does who will eventually chime in here) but it's my understanding that the best prints are made using the Giclee method. Here is a link to an explanation: What is a Giclee print?

There is one problem in that the term is not exact and has been appropriated for sometimes lesser copy techniques.

FWIW, this appears to be the highest rez jpeg out there.

Manet-Guerre Civile
Last edited by The Old Man
Jorge - That's a very rare print from some quick checking I did. Anything authentic is going to run $8k and up and one thing I read is less than 20 available over the last 40 years. Also poked on posters, which I don't think are bad in a niece frame and none. Suspect it's not something a lot of people want in their dinning room. Like looking for an original Ramones record Smile
Old Man, thanks a lot! Regarding the high res JPG, that's the one I found, too. However, I found a website that sells "extremely high resolution" TIF's for only $10. They let you download the a watermarked version of the same file for you to review quality before paying. If I go the way of a local print / giclee, I'll like go that route.

I'd be curious to hear what the price for the real one would be. It will likely be out of my price range, but I'd still be interested to hear more... and may not be a bad way to begin an art collection Wink feel free to email me at jorge at artisanmg dot com once you hear

Paul, that's what I found as well. That's the reason I was leaning towards simply printing up one of my own, I just wanted it to look decent. And since good ole' Edouard has long since passed, I don't feel as though I'm ripping anyone off, and it's completely legal to reproduce.


Snipes, from what I've recently learned, it's nothing more than a printing process. I'm sure there are "signed" Giclee's or Giclee's that are "authorized" by the artist that fetch a premium - but they've only been around since the early 1990's it seems, and Manet was worm-food by then.
Follow-up for wine+art and Rob. . .

wine+art, thanks for the rec of the gallery in Atlanta . . . found what I was looking for and making a purchase today.

Rob -- contacted the gallery you mentioned in Cleveland as well. They have the actual photo I was originally looking for, but at $50,000, I rearranged my preferences!

thanks gentlemen!
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
Follow-up for wine+art and Rob. . .

wine+art, thanks for the rec of the gallery in Atlanta . . . found what I was looking for and making a purchase today.

Rob -- contacted the gallery you mentioned in Cleveland as well. They have the actual photo I was originally looking for, but at $50,000, I rearranged my preferences!

thanks gentlemen!


Glad I could partially help! I knew they had had an exhibition of his, so I was reasonably sure they would have a line on product. But yikes on the price!
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
Follow-up for wine+art and Rob. . .

wine+art, thanks for the rec of the gallery in Atlanta . . . found what I was looking for and making a purchase today.

Rob -- contacted the gallery you mentioned in Cleveland as well. They have the actual photo I was originally looking for, but at $50,000, I rearranged my preferences!

thanks gentlemen!


Excellent, Parcival. Please do not give the work a score. Razz

You should keep both of these galleries on you contact list. Both are excellent.
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Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
Follow-up for wine+art and Rob. . .

wine+art, thanks for the rec of the gallery in Atlanta . . . found what I was looking for and making a purchase today.

Rob -- contacted the gallery you mentioned in Cleveland as well. They have the actual photo I was originally looking for, but at $50,000, I rearranged my preferences!

thanks gentlemen!


Excellent, Parcival. Please do not give the work a score. Razz

You should keep both of these galleries on you contact list. Both are excellent.


I have a strict "no scores" rule on art! Learning to apply that rule to wine as well!
w+a

question for you. With a little more research, I have uncovered another option for the Eisenstaedt print I am looking to purchase.

Here are the options:
A) Original gelatin silver print released by Time Life through Circle Gallery. 20x24 for $55,000; edition size = 250 (not going to happen)

B) Limited edition 30x40(edition size of 40) archival pigment print; $9,500 (much better)

C) Limited edition 16x20 silver gelatin print containing three images from the original negative strip; Each image is approximately 4x6 in size. $4000 (even better)

Question -- I have seen both Option A and C. Option A is spectacular; Option C is also very striking though the expressions on the childrens' faces are not as striking at such a small size. No experience with option B. Apparently, this is a digital print, printed on demand that will be limited to a run of 40 prints. The size is actually ideal, but is this collection-worthy or is this merely a "poster"
In 5 years are you going to look at option C on your wall and say "I really like it, but it doesn't fit exactly what I was looking for and I feel a little let down when I look at it."?

Be honest, because deep deep down you know the answer (one way or another). It's not exactly what was in your mind when you were looking for the piece.

Now if you think that, "I was looking for A but C gives me three aspects and it's even more interesting because it's something that most people have never seen even that know the work, It's rare and unique", I would jump all over C.

A real print is always going to be better than something someone hit print to produce in my mind.
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Originally posted by Parcival:
w+a

question for you.


Parcival, you are way out of my comfort zone. I'm just not a photography collector, sorry. It is just something I should not offer an opinion on. Now, if we are talking modern or contemporary art and sculpture... Wink

There has been a lot of things posted recently in this thread I take umbrage to, just have not had the time to reply.

Always remember, you are not married to your purchases. Art can serve a purpose for only a single season in your life, or it may serve you well for all four seasons in your life. For me, art is about passion, joy and adding richness and layers to my life. It is never about investment even though I know it can be.

With this said, you will know what the right call is for you, and no need to over think it as long as the cost is within your fun money budget. Cool
I love the word umbrage. Funny actually, yesterday morning I was in the shower deep in thought about my favorite words. When else do you get to stand there in peace and quiet and think of ridiculous and inane (another favorite) things like that? and umbrage was in the internal conversation. Copse as always won out though...

w+a is very very much more knowledgeable than me on all things art and art collecting but I think he comes from a point of view of recycling or turning over your collection is something you do.

I'm a hoarder and even if I should, I don't sell many things, just buy. So he is very very reasonable in his point saying if the piece you choose does it for you for a year or 10 you can replace it when it no longer does. I need to remind myself to think that way but I usually don't hence my comment above (which I think holds water either way, don't get something you like but don't love because it partially scratches an itch).
Rob brings up an interesting point. I shall not only not take umbrage with his point, but will contemplate the vicissitudes of it. Big Grin

All kidding aside, I do not think I have ever purchased a piece I thought I might one day sell or in my cases, have the kids take to their homes.

I have just found that sometimes I or my wife will look at a piece and think, the work is now too complete/understand for me, or perhaps the emotion it once touched in me I no longer have at this time in my life, or... We move our art often, and each time the piece is often new again within a different setting and light.

For me, art is never static, but ever changing and evolving as I want to be in my life, but at the end of the day, we only have so many walls in our two homes. I do understand Rob's way of collecting as well.
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Originally posted by wine+art:
We are going to see the Warhol Out West exhibit today and then walk the City Center sculpture exhibit here in Vegas today.

The sculpture exhibit has works by Moore, Oldenburg and many others.

I think the Moore is sadly sited. Note, the Nancy Rubin's is similar to the one that San Diego didn't have the courage to purchase.
There is an exhibit opening this Friday exhibiting the last art the Kennedy's saw/enjoyed together.

Their hotel room in Ft. Worth was adorned with works by Picasso, Kline, Moore and other giants, and these pieces will be on exhibit. The Kennedy's loved art, and the First Lady went on and on about the art, but I just find this somewhat troublesome and disturbing.

I need more time to think about this...
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Originally posted by ThistlinTom:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Took in the Warhol Out West exhibit yesterday. It is a smart and well done exhibit, and the audio was very informative.

Andy's dominance over the last 50 years in the art world continues with no end in sight currently.


Is it a dominance based upon artistic merit or from popularity?

The best modern art makes one look differently at the world. Whether it's a soup can or an electric chair. By that criteria (which I'm admitting is my own) Warhol succeeded spectacularly. However he's not my favorite Modern (or Contemporary) artist by far. Just thought of another indication of his special place--almost everyone can tell his work at a glance.
Last edited by The Old Man
quote:
Originally posted by ThistlinTom:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Took in the Warhol Out West exhibit yesterday. It is a smart and well done exhibit, and the audio was very informative.

Andy's dominance over the last 50 years in the art world continues with no end in sight currently.


Is it a dominance based upon artistic merit or from popularity?


A 50+ year run with no end insight, works selling for record highs year after year, demand continuing to grow, his influence hitting you in the face in major gallery after major gallery worldwide, museums continuing to collect and being positively vetted out over decades by critics and scholars is merit without debate or conversation.

Popular? See Thomas Kinkade, Americas most collected artist. Red Face Crazy
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Originally posted by The Old Man:
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Originally posted by Jorgerunfast:
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Originally posted by wine+art:
Going to the Clyfford Still museum today. Cool


Are you ever gonna get around to elaborating on your umbrage?

Mad

+1


Ha... I really need a computer to reply, and I have not had one in weeks. Just too much to type on an iPhone. Razz
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
I see where two Giacometti works will be auctioned at Sotheby's in NYC next month. If only Dallas' Ray Nasher were still alive.

These two works may very well push the $100M mark.


We saw his 'Walking man' at the Foundation Maeght a couple of years ago and was by far the museum highlight for me.
quote:
Originally posted by Jabe11:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
I see where two Giacometti works will be auctioned at Sotheby's in NYC next month. If only Dallas' Ray Nasher were still alive.

These two works may very well push the $100M mark.


We saw his 'Walking man' at the Foundation Maeght a couple of years ago and was by far the museum highlight for me.


Jabe, excellent. You must visit the Nasher Sculpture Center here in Dallas. They have 15 of Giacometti's works including Spoon Women & a Walking Man.
PAGING wine+art,

Anna in Atlanta wants to say thank you! Didn't have your real name to provide when she asked me about the referral. I gave her as much as I had to go on (Dallas + Sante Fe; avid art collector and wine lover) . . . didn't ring any bells with her but she wanted to express her appreciation for the referral

Art coming my way from her in a few weeks

thanks from me again as well. She was a joy to work with!
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
PAGING wine+art,

Anna in Atlanta wants to say thank you! Didn't have your real name to provide when she asked me about the referral. I gave her as much as I had to go on (Dallas + Sante Fe; avid art collector and wine lover) . . . didn't ring any bells with her but she wanted to express her appreciation for the referral

Art coming my way from her in a few weeks

thanks from me again as well. She was a joy to work with!


Hey, which piece did you end up buying?? Do you have a link to the image(s)?
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
wine+art . . . you around in Dallas next week?

There for work on Thursday (Oct 24). Let me know if you're up for a drink or dinner on Wednesday (Oct 23)

email = parvical69 at gmail


Parcival, I'm disappointed. Frown

I have a BOD dinner on Wednesday and a BOD meeting on Thursday.

Please reach out the next time you are in Texas. ( Austin, SAT, Houston or DFW)
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
wine+art . . . you around in Dallas next week?

There for work on Thursday (Oct 24). Let me know if you're up for a drink or dinner on Wednesday (Oct 23)

email = parvical69 at gmail


Parcival, I'm disappointed. Frown

I have a BOD dinner on Wednesday and a BOD meeting on Thursday.

Please reach out the next time you are in Texas. ( Austin, SAT, Houston or DFW)


Next time it is!
The treasure to Dallas known as the Nasher Sculpture Center is celebrating their 10th year this weekend with 10 new sculpture installations by 10 new artist at 10 new and different sites throughout the city. We simply download their app and off you go spending the day discovering new treasures.

Tomorrow will be a day in their private sculpture garden filled with music, new pieces and such.

A sunny weekend in the lower 70's makes for a perfect weekend in Big D. Cool
PRINT...

I'm not sure there is a more misunderstood word within the art world. A topic far better to discuss over a dinner and wine, but a few thoughts.

First off, the very finest museums and galleries across the world are filled with so called, prints.

An etching, woodblock, linocut, intaglio, lithography, aquatint, relief, drypoint, collograph, serigraphy, monotype, iris and many others are all types of prints. Many of these have been around for hundreds of years. Rembrandt was a printmaker extraordinaire.

Prints should never be thought of as less in quality, originality, value or uniqueness summarily. That would be a mistake of the uninformed. (I'm not talking about offset printing.)

There are reasons an artist will choose to use printmaking as their choice of production. A couple of examples. Think of an etching. One can create tension in their work that cannot be achieved in traditional painting. Serigraph and silk-screen creates something/ statement that often cannot be recreated in traditional painting, and the same can be said for all and other forms of prints that I listed above.

I have heard people say, they do not like Giclees. A giclee can be an original work of art, and often is although they do not have to be. There are serious artist that create the original art piece within the computer and then print the piece using machine technology. There is no 'original' painted piece that was then copied. I have heard people ask to see the original from the Giclee, and the artist must explain, there is no such thing. This is not a reproduction, it is the original.

I think it also helps for someone to understand the reason artist often use a form of printmaking. One of the driving forces from the late 1800's - forward is a rejection of control, power, possessiveness and the role of art in the modern world through the eyes of then emerging artist and even established artist then and now. Printmaking was in many ways a way for an artist to give the finger to the powerful, elite, the church or the high-and-mighty state owned museums and such. There was a rejection of a museum, the Vatican or even a gallery choosing what was seen and by whom or what was not and when. Offering multiple prints was just one way to break such control that artist often despised. From the Vatican to the Louvre, someone is choosing what is seen and what is not, and only about 10% of what is owned is on display at any time.

There was also the thinking from artist that art should not be for only the well-to-do,or people that had the money or even access to museums, and serious art should be affordable and hanging in the dorm rooms of students across the world.

There is also the thinking that print number 1 or 5 or 10 is better and more valuable than print number 300. There was a time that could be the case as the print transfer may lose some of the clarity with use. An example of this would be a stone transfer. Print 1 would surely be better than print number ???. This is really not the case often today. Print number 300 can often be just as nice as print number 1. ( many variables for sure) One of the things that has given some collectors great consternation today and some are evening suing is the fact the printmaking today is often better than in the past. Say you bought a Picasso or Warhol from decades ago, and their estate decides to release new screenings from the original screenings. These can clearly be better than the one you may have bought as processes, paints and materials can be better today than decades before. It is an ugly battle in the art world. I see re-releases far better than what may be in a museum today.

Think about a clay or plaster Giacometti being bronzed. Does one think there cannot be several cast from the bronze that are excellent? The art world has been turned upside-down with Giacometti non-original works in museums across the world today and it is ugly.

One must think about why you are buying a piece of art. Is it as an investment or is it because you love the work and want to enjoy it and make it part of your daily life?


I have just touched on the subject, and far too much to discuss here, but I will close by saying the word print is being painted with a far too broad of a brush. Wink
Wine+art . . . to your point about new releases having the potential to be better than the original releases

I may be using words incorrectly, but here goes.

An Eisenstadt photo (Children at Puppet Theatre) was released in 1991. This photo was printed from the original negative and signed by Eisenstadt. I believe this piece was a silver-gelatin print. It's a beautiful piece at 20x24 and is auctioning in the $50,000 range. I recently purchased a "digital print" of the same photo being release in an edition size of 20 by TIME. The release size is 30x36 and the clarity of the actual photo is spectacular - better than the original release.

I suspect this re-release will never be worth as much as the "original" largely because it does not have Eisenstadt's signature. But, for purely aesthetic reasons (not to mention it's fraction of the "original's cost), I actually prefer this larger size / greater clarity print