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quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
The DMA has an exhibit currently offering many of Jean Paul Gaultier works.

I enjoyed it more than I thought I might have.

Organized by the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts in collaboration with Maison Jean Paul Gaultier, the exhibition premiered in Montreal in June.

D really wanted to see this and I attended somewhat reluctantly. At the end of the exhibition my feelings mimiked yours. Worth seeing, IMO.
quote:
Originally posted by KSC02:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
The DMA has an exhibit currently offering many of Jean Paul Gaultier works.

I enjoyed it more than I thought I might have.

Organized by the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts in collaboration with Maison Jean Paul Gaultier, the exhibition premiered in Montreal in June.

D really wanted to see this and I attended somewhat reluctantly. At the end of the exhibition my feelings mimiked yours. Worth seeing, IMO.


Tell D to fly here to Dallas. It will be near 70 next week, and I will pick her up at the airport, take her to the DMA, then off to a grand night of dinner and wine.

Which day works best for her? Cool
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by KSC02:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
The DMA has an exhibit currently offering many of Jean Paul Gaultier works.

I enjoyed it more than I thought I might have.

Organized by the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts in collaboration with Maison Jean Paul Gaultier, the exhibition premiered in Montreal in June.

D really wanted to see this and I attended somewhat reluctantly. At the end of the exhibition my feelings mimiked yours. Worth seeing, IMO.


Tell D to fly here to Dallas. It will be near 70 next week, and I will pick her up at the airport, take her to the DMA, then off to a grand night of dinner and wine.

Which day works best for her? Cool


I'll participate. I think D would be quite stunning in a formal dress with each of us on each arm in our bespoken suits. Big Grin
So much for the concept of "starving artist" -

Painter and graffiti artist David Choe will reportedly be making $200 million for a mural he painted seven years ago. So did Choe paint the next Mona Lisa? Not exactly. In 2005, Choe was asked by then-Facebook President Sean Parker to create a mural for the first Facebook offices in Palo Alto. Choe was given two options: get paid thousands of dollars on the spot or take his payment in Facebook stock. Luckily for Choe, he picked the stock. Facebook filed the paperwork to go public yesterday, with an initial public offering of $5 billion. That means that a ton of people who are associated with the company are instant millionaires--including Choe, whose stocks are predicted to be worth hundreds of millions. Perhaps the most ironic facet of this story is that at the time Choe was painting the mural, he tells the New York Times, he thought Facebook was "pointless and ridiculous." People on Twitter may be hating a little bit, with one person saying that Choe is "about to be the world's most resented artist."
quote:
Originally posted by vinole:
So much for the concept of "starving artist" -

Painter and graffiti artist David Choe will reportedly be making $200 million for a mural he painted seven years ago. So did Choe paint the next Mona Lisa? Not exactly. In 2005, Choe was asked by then-Facebook President Sean Parker to create a mural for the first Facebook offices in Palo Alto. Choe was given two options: get paid thousands of dollars on the spot or take his payment in Facebook stock. Luckily for Choe, he picked the stock. Facebook filed the paperwork to go public yesterday, with an initial public offering of $5 billion. That means that a ton of people who are associated with the company are instant millionaires--including Choe, whose stocks are predicted to be worth hundreds of millions. Perhaps the most ironic facet of this story is that at the time Choe was painting the mural, he tells the New York Times, he thought Facebook was "pointless and ridiculous." People on Twitter may be hating a little bit, with one person saying that Choe is "about to be the world's most resented artist."
this has less to do with the art itself, more to do with an excellent business decision made at the time...well done Choe!
quote:
Originally posted by SD-Wineaux:
I'm confused. Why in the world would he have chosen the stock shares in lieu of cash if he thought Facebook was "pointless and ridiculous"? Crazy


SD, I can see him thinking/saying this, yet opting for the stock. He is an interesting person. Wink

I first saw his work in Chelsea, and was blown away. He has taken Spain by storm, and Spain is as avant-garde as anyplace in the world today pertaining to art.
sorry, I thought I recalled bringing up these artists names before and you didn't care for them, or said "ahem"or something like that

maybe another chance for re-eval?
Damon Soule
http://www.juxtapoz.com/Featur...hat-with-damon-soule

Jeff Soto
http://jonathanlevinegallery.c...8EB-92905B887370CF8E

Mars-1
http://jonathanlevinegallery.c...562-AA250071304E1A24

Ron English
http://www.popaganda.com/blog1...persuppercropped-jpg
quote:
Originally posted by fcs:
sorry, I thought I recalled bringing up these artists names before and you didn't care for them, or said "ahem"or something like that

maybe another chance for re-eval?
Damon Soule
http://www.juxtapoz.com/Featur...hat-with-damon-soule

Jeff Soto
http://jonathanlevinegallery.c...8EB-92905B887370CF8E

Mars-1
http://jonathanlevinegallery.c...562-AA250071304E1A24

Ron English
http://www.popaganda.com/blog1...persuppercropped-jpg


Are you a collector of this style of art?
quote:
Originally posted by VinToronto:


3' X 5'. Should be complete in a couple of weeks. At that size, should we get it framed? Or just stretched?


Completely depends on the style of the work.

Vin, saw your email.

I personally would not frame if your new piece is anything like the Nightingale work, other than considering a museum only frame with proper negative space which should not even be noticed.

I'm looking forward to seeing your new work!
Last edited by wine+art
quote:
Originally posted by VinToronto:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinToronto:


Me too. Commissioning a piece of art is a little unnerving.


I have never been obligated to buy if I did not love a commissioned work. Are you committed, regardless?


No. But it would be awkward if...


It should not be, Vin. A no go is more common than you may think.

You are already a client of his, and clearly have interest in more of his work. The only question is which work, and that can not be guaranteed in advance.

There are rules, nuances and in someways a rhythm in the art world, but candid and transparent communication should never include awkwardness.

You are wanting and willing to buy more of his work. The only question is, which work?

I have 25+ years of experience in this game, and a game/business it is. It is not uncommon for the artist to share his vision and outline with you along the way.

Always remember, the artist should want to exceed your expectation, and should understand this is the best way to sell you a third piece even before you buy your second work.
Vin, speaking of awkward, do you read Eric Banks and his views on art?

He has a great piece this month in Town & Country, called That's Awkward. Big Grin

It is talking about provocative art that is in the homes of serious collectors, and the conversations it has caused when little Sally has her birthday party with her first grade friends at her home...or the reaction of new friends drop in for the first time...or Cool

I had a number of friends over recently from our neighborhood, including new neighbors that happen to be gay. Well, when they found one of our Helmut Newton books sitting out, the party took on a different focus indeed. LOL
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinToronto:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinToronto:


Me too. Commissioning a piece of art is a little unnerving.


I have never been obligated to buy if I did not love a commissioned work. Are you committed, regardless?


No. But it would be awkward if...


It should not be, Vin. A no go is more common than you may think.

You are already a client of his, and clearly have interest in more of his work. The only question is which work, and that can not be guaranteed in advance.

There are rules, nuances and in someways a rhythm in the art world, but candid and transparent communication should never include awkwardness.

You are wanting and willing to buy more of his work. The only question is, which work?

I have 25+ years of experience in this game, and a game/business it is. It is not uncommon for the artist to share his vision and outline with you along the way.

Always remember, the artist should want to exceed your expectation, and should understand this is the best way to sell you a third piece even before you buy your second work.


Sage advice. Thank you.

I will be sure to share a photo when the deed is done. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by VinToronto:
On another note, have you ever had an interest in, or acquired any art glass? It has always fascinated me as a medium.


Vin, I have made two monumental mistakes in art. One was not buying a Dale Chihuly (glass) piece in 1981 (?) for less than $500, and also not buying a Rufino Tamayo work in 1990 for $7500.

We absolutely loved the Tamayo piece, but I was trying to fund our kids college fund and had our house on a 15 year note. Tamayo died the next year and the piece was auctioned off at $47,000. Mad The same piece has since been sold for well over $100k. I knew the piece was worth $20k plus when we found it, but I just could not talk myself into writing the check.

The Chiluly work I was never crazy about, but D liked it. Every time he is in the news, or we stay at the Bellagio in Vegas, I hear a smart ass comment... I wonder what that piece would be worth now? Red Face

I have looked at buying glass art, but just never have. Seaquam ( a forum member that does not post enough) has a couple of nice works I liked a lot. Overall, glass art just does not fall into the genres we have great passion for, but you never know.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinToronto:
On another note, have you ever had an interest in, or acquired any art glass? It has always fascinated me as a medium.


Vin, I have made two monumental mistakes in art. One was not buying a Dale Chihuly (glass) piece in 1981 (?) for less than $500, and also not buying a Rufino Tamayo work in 1990 for $7500.

We absolutely loved the Tamayo piece, but I was trying to fund our kids college fund and had our house on a 15 year note. Tamayo died the next year and the piece was auctioned off at $47,000. Mad The same piece has since been sold for well over $100k. I knew the piece was worth $20k plus when we found it, but I just could not talk myself into writing the check.

The Chiluly work I was never crazy about, but D liked it. Every time he is in the news, or we stay at the Bellagio in Vegas, I hear a smart ass comment... I wonder what that piece would be worth now? Red Face

I have looked at buying glass art, but just never have. Seaquam ( a forum member that does not post enough) has a couple of nice works I liked a lot. Overall, glass art just does not fall into the genres we have great passion for, but you never know.


A Chihuly for sub-$500?? Bang Bang Great story!

I've taken a bunch of glassblowing courses and still have yet to progress much past the blobby paperweight/basic vase stage. That's why it fascinates me - because it's WAY harder than it looks. And great glass artists make it look easy. I have a few pieces, but I'm really waiting for some renos to be completed before we have the perfect spot to put a nice piece.

One of my fave glass artists is Jeff Goodman. Buying one of his pieces is definitely on my bucket list.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Vin, your post prompted me to schedule a visit to the artist I'm negotiating with for a new outdoor sculpture... thank you.

We had a very productive 2+ hour meeting today, and I'm encouraged.


Excellent! If you have a moment, could you possibly email me the name of the artist? I'd love to see what kind of style you're contemplating. Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Vin, I have made two monumental mistakes in art. One was not buying a Dale Chihuly (glass) piece in 1981 (?) for less than $500, ...

I'd be curious to hear your take aesthetically on Chihuly's work, aside from the investment aspect. For me there's a fine line between having a recognizable character to one's work and simply repeating oneself over and over. Having worked in a building with a 30-foot installation by Chihuly, perhaps I take for granted his impact/genius.
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
Went to an art festival today and we bought our first original piece of art. Its a whimsical painting that will go very well in our daughters room. We bought a print from the same artist last year that is hanging in her room now. We might make this an annual tradition, at least until her walls are filled . . . or my wallet is empty. Wink


Well played, Jack.
quote:
Originally posted by stickman:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Vin, I have made two monumental mistakes in art. One was not buying a Dale Chihuly (glass) piece in 1981 (?) for less than $500, ...

I'd be curious to hear your take aesthetically on Chihuly's work, aside from the investment aspect. For me there's a fine line between having a recognizable character to one's work and simply repeating oneself over and over. Having worked in a building with a 30-foot installation by Chihuly, perhaps I take for granted his impact/genius.


We shall talk of this in Vegas...perhaps at the Bellagio. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by stickman:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Vin, I have made two monumental mistakes in art. One was not buying a Dale Chihuly (glass) piece in 1981 (?) for less than $500, ...

I'd be curious to hear your take aesthetically on Chihuly's work...

We shall talk of this in Vegas...perhaps at the Bellagio. Wink

How appropriate! Smile
quote:
Originally posted by VinToronto:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinToronto:
On another note, have you ever had an interest in, or acquired any art glass? It has always fascinated me as a medium.


Vin, I have made two monumental mistakes in art. One was not buying a Dale Chihuly (glass) piece in 1981 (?) for less than $500, and also not buying a Rufino Tamayo work in 1990 for $7500.

We absolutely loved the Tamayo piece, but I was trying to fund our kids college fund and had our house on a 15 year note. Tamayo died the next year and the piece was auctioned off at $47,000. Mad The same piece has since been sold for well over $100k. I knew the piece was worth $20k plus when we found it, but I just could not talk myself into writing the check.

The Chiluly work I was never crazy about, but D liked it. Every time he is in the news, or we stay at the Bellagio in Vegas, I hear a smart ass comment... I wonder what that piece would be worth now? Red Face

I have looked at buying glass art, but just never have. Seaquam ( a forum member that does not post enough) has a couple of nice works I liked a lot. Overall, glass art just does not fall into the genres we have great passion for, but you never know.


A Chihuly for sub-$500?? Bang Bang Great story!

I've taken a bunch of glassblowing courses and still have yet to progress much past the blobby paperweight/basic vase stage. That's why it fascinates me - because it's WAY harder than it looks. And great glass artists make it look easy. I have a few pieces, but I'm really waiting for some renos to be completed before we have the perfect spot to put a nice piece.

One of my fave glass artists is Jeff Goodman. Buying one of his pieces is definitely on my bucket list.



Couple of months ago we were visiting our favorite gallery in Seattle, and were taken into the back warehouse where they keep their bigger pieces. Despite its comparatively modest size in that context where it was dwarfed, both my wife's and my eyes were immediately drawn to a colorful blown glass bowl that was stunning! Chihuly, of course, offered at $48000. His work has a drama that surpasses almost all other art glass. If I were never intending to buy another bottle of wine in my lifetime, I might have made an offer on that piece. I was told that our reaction to the piece is common when people come into the back area.

That said, we like and collect a bit of art glass. We have a few special Lalique vases, Merrilee Moore and Robert Held pieces, and some circa-1930s art deco vases. Paintings are still our preferred passion, though.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Seaquam, the last time we emailed, you were thinking sculpture.

Did you and S every buy?

D and I are thinking of a new sculpture for the yard.


Since last we spoke, a great deal has happened, most of it not good. Art acquisitions have not been in the forefront of my mind. However, we are still seriously thinking of a Will Robinson piece. If you click on the link, the 2nd and 8th pieces are the ones we like, though there are 4 others that aren't in the gallery's portfolio for which we are waiting to see photographs.

Anyway, I am fortunate-- as are so many others-- to be able to live vicariously through you and D whenever I'm not buying my own art, even if the excitement is somewhat less for me. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by KSC02:
quote:
Originally posted by Seaquam:
I am fortunate-- as are so many others-- to be able to live vicariously through you and D whenever I'm not buying my own art, even if the excitement is somewhat less for me. Smile

Big Grin

I've missed reading the quick pen of Seaquam as often these days. Good to see you posting!


Seaquam is indeed, one of a kind. Cool
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Vin, your post prompted me to schedule a visit to the artist I'm negotiating with for a new outdoor sculpture... thank you.

We had a very productive 2+ hour meeting today, and I'm encouraged.


Really, an outdoor sculpture? People do that? Honestly, I wouldn't even know who to ask or where to look.

I purchased a 3x4' rug from Nain (pronounced Nay-een) that is a stunning brilliant white background with blues and greens. I have no idea where I will place it, and that's half the fun.
quote:
Originally posted by khmark7:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Vin, your post prompted me to schedule a visit to the artist I'm negotiating with for a new outdoor sculpture... thank you.

We had a very productive 2+ hour meeting today, and I'm encouraged.


Really, an outdoor sculpture? People do that? Honestly, I wouldn't even know who to ask or where to look.

Well, I'm not sure about people, but I do. Smile We have one already, and would like to add more over time.

I purchased a 3x4' rug from Nain (pronounced Nay-een) that is a stunning brilliant white background with blues and greens. I have no idea where I will place it, and that's half the fun.... Oh, the where would we put it question. I understand that! Wink Both of our children also love art, so they often get a piece ( on loan) to put in their home when we buy. Always a good problem, I think. Your new Nain sounds wonderful.
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
Spent about 4 hours in the Musee D’Orsay today. I’m far from an art enthusiast but I do love this place.


Then you saw the Degas exhibition. We would have loved to be able to see it, but it ends the day we arrive.

In some ways, the most beautiful example of art at the D'Orsay is the building itself.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
And the answer is...?


Will bring a couple home on loan for a week or two.


Well done! If you have a moment and your iPhone handy...


Vin, Belk le Rat will try out our home this coming weekend. I will send you an email.


Excellent! Thanks. And glad to see you made it home in one piece. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
And the answer is...?


Will bring a couple home on loan for a week or two.


Well done! If you have a moment and your iPhone handy...


Vin, Belk le Rat will try out our home this coming weekend. I will send you an email.


Excellent! Thanks. And glad to see you made it home in one piece. Wink


Home yes, but not too sure about in how many pieces.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
khmark7, I curse thee. Razz

I'm not a rug person, and I do NOT need any other bad hobbies. This said, I found an 1880 Oushak rug that I thought was beautiful. ( 9x14?)

Are these serious rugs?


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Serious....that's another story. I'm not familiar with that style of rug, but one can always have the rug appraised. I've learned over time what traits and characteristics to look for in a quality rug, but it's a tricky business.

Rugs of high quality can easily last many decades, even with heavy wear.
Thanks khmark7.

The larger rug sold for $89,000, which everyone in the know was shocked at such a low price.

There is a smaller rug I liked, but know nothing about such. There are several smaller rugs for under $8000.

One of my art brokers bought an 1800's Oushak for under $70,000 and flipped it for over $100k in two months.

Like I said, I know nothing about this game.

Thanks for your opinion.
Interesting W+A....certainly classic old rugs are higher in value, but not know where the rug was made, and the quality, it's hard to provide much information. One not need to look for antique rugs however to find outstanding beauty....you simply need to know where to look right now. There is no need to spend $8,000....even for larger rugs.
quote:
Originally posted by khmark7:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
khmark7, I curse thee. Razz

I'm not a rug person, and I do NOT need any other bad hobbies. This said, I found an 1880 Oushak rug that I thought was beautiful. ( 9x14?)

Are these serious rugs?


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Serious....that's another story. I'm not familiar with that style of rug, but one can always have the rug appraised. I've learned over time what traits and characteristics to look for in a quality rug, but it's a tricky business.

Rugs of high quality can easily last many decades, even with heavy wear.


I quite like Usak/Oushak rugs. Especially with age on them as the washed out, muted colours are very easy on my eyes. I don't get the are they "serious" rugs though. Pretty much all rugs that are handmade from that region can be collectible to someone. I've got quite a few very tribal (read coarse, made in a tent) rugs that are just as collectible and tradeable as a silk kashan rug. Don't get caught up thinking you can only buy Nain or Qum or Esfahan rugs to be a true collector.
Just my opinion. "Serious" rugs = Iran Similiar to Champagne vs. sparkling wines. Are there quality sparkling wines made outside of Champagne? Absolutely, but they still are not Champagne. Rugs from Iran are the highest of quality, command the highest resale value and their patterns are copied the world over.

Tribal rugs are very cool, and i actually much enjoy Kazak rugs hand made in Pakistan.... Oushak rugs I believe are hand made in Turkey, not that there is anything wrong with that.
quote:
Originally posted by khmark7:
Just my opinion. "Serious" rugs = Iran Similiar to Champagne vs. sparkling wines. Are there quality sparkling wines made outside of Champagne? Absolutely, but they still are not Champagne. Rugs from Iran are the highest of quality, command the highest resale value and their patterns are copied the world over.

Tribal rugs are very cool, and i actually much enjoy Kazak rugs hand made in Pakistan.... Oushak rugs I believe are hand made in Turkey, not that there is anything wrong with that.


An Oushak rug sold at Christies for $159k in 2008. I'd call that serious.

Maybe instead of the Champagne/Sparkling wine description you can say the best of Iranian (Nain, Qum, Esfahan etc.) are the Bordeaux 1st growths (at the top end of the manufacturing - just because they are from there doesn't mean they are museum worthy!). 1st growth's are great, but there is a lot of very serious, collectible wine outside of them.

I'd take a really great, antique Qashqai over a more modern, good but not great, quality Nain anytime. Just like I'd take a 1999 La Landonne over a 2002 Haut Brion.
quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Sutherland:
quote:
Originally posted by khmark7:
Just my opinion. "Serious" rugs = Iran Similiar to Champagne vs. sparkling wines. Are there quality sparkling wines made outside of Champagne? Absolutely, but they still are not Champagne. Rugs from Iran are the highest of quality, command the highest resale value and their patterns are copied the world over.

Tribal rugs are very cool, and i actually much enjoy Kazak rugs hand made in Pakistan.... Oushak rugs I believe are hand made in Turkey, not that there is anything wrong with that.


An Oushak rug sold at Christies for $159k in 2008. I'd call that serious.

Maybe instead of the Champagne/Sparkling wine description you can say the best of Iranian (Nain, Qum, Esfahan etc.) are the Bordeaux 1st growths (at the top end of the manufacturing - just because they are from there doesn't mean they are museum worthy!). 1st growth's are great, but there is a lot of very serious, collectible wine outside of them.

I'd take a really great, antique Qashqai over a more modern, good but not great, quality Nain anytime. Just like I'd take a 1999 La Landonne over a 2002 Haut Brion.


Arguments over the subjective. Aren't they great?

I want to take issue with your assertion, but I won't. Maybe instead, I'll ask a question. Is the greatness of art determined by what someone is willing to pay for it?
quote:
Originally posted by aphilla:
quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Sutherland:
quote:
Originally posted by khmark7:
Just my opinion. "Serious" rugs = Iran Similiar to Champagne vs. sparkling wines. Are there quality sparkling wines made outside of Champagne? Absolutely, but they still are not Champagne. Rugs from Iran are the highest of quality, command the highest resale value and their patterns are copied the world over.

Tribal rugs are very cool, and i actually much enjoy Kazak rugs hand made in Pakistan.... Oushak rugs I believe are hand made in Turkey, not that there is anything wrong with that.


An Oushak rug sold at Christies for $159k in 2008. I'd call that serious.

Maybe instead of the Champagne/Sparkling wine description you can say the best of Iranian (Nain, Qum, Esfahan etc.) are the Bordeaux 1st growths (at the top end of the manufacturing - just because they are from there doesn't mean they are museum worthy!). 1st growth's are great, but there is a lot of very serious, collectible wine outside of them.

I'd take a really great, antique Qashqai over a more modern, good but not great, quality Nain anytime. Just like I'd take a 1999 La Landonne over a 2002 Haut Brion.


Arguments over the subjective. Aren't they great?

I want to take issue with your assertion, but I won't. Maybe instead, I'll ask a question. Is the greatness of art determined by what someone is willing to pay for it?


To some... Devilish

Can art be considered great if no one is ever willing to pay for it?

Certainly the "market" puts various prices on things. These differing values don't always speak to the inherent artistic greatness of a piece. Rarity and demand often play larger parts. I collect rare (and to me at least greatly artistic) things that the market doesn't value the way it values other things with potentially the same "greatness of art" or artistic merit. But the market does value them...

Regardless, I stand by my assertion that a rug doesn't have to come from Iran to be serious, collectible or even museum worthy. Rugs from outside of Iran can have great artistic merit and people have acknowledged that fact through the high prices they are willing to pay for them.
Sheep mentality: How many people are attracted to an form of High Art only after the masses have declared it as such (and they pay accordingly to own such at that point)?

The 'eye' belongs to one who can determine such an item outside of 'the market' and that one is greatly rewarded if that same market discovers this item later.

That said, Fine Art is Fine Art and a well honed eye will find such items on its own without requiring the validation of the masses. As well, the true collector collects. He doesn't 'invest' and (technically) cares little about the after market.

Same agrugment that we see in threads here regarding the valuation of wines (valuations increase to a point one questions whether to consume) can be applied to Art.
quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Sutherland:
quote:
Originally posted by khmark7:
Just my opinion. "Serious" rugs = Iran Similiar to Champagne vs. sparkling wines. Are there quality sparkling wines made outside of Champagne? Absolutely, but they still are not Champagne. Rugs from Iran are the highest of quality, command the highest resale value and their patterns are copied the world over.

Tribal rugs are very cool, and i actually much enjoy Kazak rugs hand made in Pakistan.... Oushak rugs I believe are hand made in Turkey, not that there is anything wrong with that.


An Oushak rug sold at Christies for $159k in 2008. I'd call that serious.

Maybe instead of the Champagne/Sparkling wine description you can say the best of Iranian (Nain, Qum, Esfahan etc.) are the Bordeaux 1st growths (at the top end of the manufacturing - just because they are from there doesn't mean they are museum worthy!). 1st growth's are great, but there is a lot of very serious, collectible wine outside of them.

I'd take a really great, antique Qashqai over a more modern, good but not great, quality Nain anytime. Just like I'd take a 1999 La Landonne over a 2002 Haut Brion.


Yes, I agree. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately there is no universal definition of "serious" nor "collector". There is no perfect way to answer wine+art's question. Even if he asked if the rug was of high quality, we could still disagree. For better or worse, art is subjective.
I like the wine analogy. I have a similar experience with both. I've found stuff (both in wine and art) I really, really like and I hope those things I really, really like that aren't popular stay unpopular.

I have this thing for Limoges. I was in the Louvre again last week and enjoyed admiring things that most people just walked by. Had them almost entirely to myself.
w+a sometimes you find with antique rugs that the patterns and designs are from an era that is no longer duplicated or produced. Patterns/designs change, even colors used will change and with the current trade restrictions on Iran the entire market may change again and has changed in recent decades. Some countries produce rugs made using Iranian patterns, but with their own unique color schemes, and with better and better quality these days.
The workmanship in Iran is amazing and handweaving these rugs is a learned trade that risks being lost on a generation in Iran due to gov't stupidity and rising labor costs. The rugs of today may be worth a whole lot more in the next century.
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Originally posted by wine+art:
The BBC reported this morning the Cezanne work, Boy in a Red Vest ($100 million) has be recovered from the famed 2008 Swiss museum theft.

Someone is very happy this day. Cool


$1000k on a cezanne? i had no idea his pieces sold for so much...and how nice to have that kins of dough for a painting. For what its worth, i had the 12 euro to get the family in to the musee picasso in Antibe today Smile
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Originally posted by wine+art:
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Originally posted by aphilla:


I have this thing for Limoges. I was in the Louvre again last week and enjoyed admiring things that most people just walked by.


Something tells me your no doubt beautiful home is bipolar to mine, ( rugs, porcelain ) which is cool. Cool


I'm not sure - I have books with pictures of art that I really like....

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