This tread is for those interested in A/D on any level.

My interest in A/D is nascent, but hope to learn much in the future. I admit, I cannot name many architects by name anymore, but the ones I could have named waited far too long to answer RFIs! Designers always seemed much more willing to banter, about anything, really. Here it goes:

After 4 or 5 visits, this past Saturday, we finally got to see the Burghley House Interior. 16th century Elizabethan structure, with many, I'd imagine, remodels. Notable 18th cent. Italianate wall and ceiling frescos; very creative wood carvings and plastered coffered ceilings. Unexpected 'Purgatorial' staircase...seemed a bit out of place.

Sidebar, TOM 'mentioned' Brueghel the younger: among the mostly mundane portraits and religious works, I found myself lingering vis-à-vis with Rent Day. Happy to say I picked the painter, but likely a lucky guess.
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
I guess we won't be talking about architectural designs for the average person's home. Because I would be interested to hear some thoughts on modifying the roof line of a cape cod. Smile


Big Grin

I'm dealing with an architect quite a bit these days. every time he shows up to my house with a new set of plans, my dreams of purchasing some Coche-Dury become further and further removed...
quote:
Originally posted by Jorgerunfast:
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
I guess we won't be talking about architectural designs for the average person's home. Because I would be interested to hear some thoughts on modifying the roof line of a cape cod. Smile


Big Grin

I'm dealing with an architect quite a bit these days. every time he shows up to my house with a new set of plans, my dreams of purchasing some Coche-Dury become further and further removed...


ha! wait til you finally decide on something and move ahead with it, then see the costs associated with everything they missed when they issue the IFC set!
D and I are taking in the AIA Dallas tour of homes today. The homes range from 1140 sf to 6800 sf, all are designed with strong mid-century modern mindsets, and all are in very different parts of the city.

Today will be sunny, 68 and very little wind. A perfect day to explore great architecture and great interior design. Cool
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
I guess we won't be talking about architectural designs for the average person's home.

DD, why would you say that? Confused

I was mistaken. When I first read the first two posts, I thought it would be mostly commercial buildings and million dollar mansions. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
D and I are taking in the AIA Dallas tour of homes today. The homes range from 1140 sf to 6800 sf, all are designed with strong mid-century modern mindsets, and all are in very different parts of the city.

Today will be sunny, 68 and very little wind. A perfect day to explore great architecture and great interior design. Cool


Better than staying in and watching the Cowboys (or the Giants). Spring Training is 3 1/2 months away!
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
D and I are taking in the AIA Dallas tour of homes today. The homes range from 1140 sf to 6800 sf, all are designed with strong mid-century modern mindsets ...

I really like the some of the elements of this style -- especially the clean lines -- for a kitchen and bathroom. Are the homes that you are touring usually mix more than one design style? I've been browsing this website for ideas, but I sometimes can't tell what the rest of the homes look like.
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
D and I are taking in the AIA Dallas tour of homes today. The homes range from 1140 sf to 6800 sf, all are designed with strong mid-century modern mindsets ...

I really like the some of the elements of this style -- especially the clean lines -- for a kitchen and bathroom. Are the homes that you are touring usually mix more than one design style? I've been browsing this website for ideas, but I sometimes can't tell what the rest of the homes look like.


DD, every year is completely different.

D just got back from a run. We will head out shortly and I can report back later.

We have been buying for Santa Fe in nothing but mid-century modern so looking for ideas.
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
D and I are taking in the AIA Dallas tour of homes today. The homes range from 1140 sf to 6800 sf, all are designed with strong mid-century modern mindsets, and all are in very different parts of the city.

Today will be sunny, 68 and very little wind. A perfect day to explore great architecture and great interior design. Cool


Better than staying in and watching the Cowboys (or the Giants). Spring Training is 3 1/2 months away!


Big Grin
The first structure I thought of after looking up mid-century modern was the Salk Institute (Louis Kahn), a building I have done a lot of work in (great Facilities crew there)...but I might consider the complex 'extreme mid-century modern mindset' Smile
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by mangiare:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wine+art:
strong mid-century modern mindsets

My favourite by a longshot. Would love to tour the case study homes one day.


mangiare,

www.hometourdallas.com

You will notice the womb chair quickly I'm confident. Wink


The only one I can see from the pics on an iphone looks like a knock- off. Could just be on a small screen. Is it possibe to find better pics of the homes?

Which home did you appreciate the most given the mid- century context.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by Ed Bowers [i.e. FlWino]:


Work with designers, Architects, builders daily. I also do all project management and CAD.



Ed, are you moving towards any BIM using Revit for 3-D, 4-D or other software from Autodesk?


Still use Arch Desktop 2009. Upgrade of $ 4,500 is not in the cards. Still can get 3D views in 2009.
quote:
Originally posted by mangiare:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by mangiare:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wine+art:
strong mid-century modern mindsets

My favourite by a longshot. Would love to tour the case study homes one day.


mangiare,

www.hometourdallas.com

You will notice the womb chair quickly I'm confident. Wink


The only one I can see from the pics on an iphone looks like a knock- off. Could just be on a small screen. Is it possibe to find better pics of the homes?

Which home did you appreciate the most given the mid- century context.


mangiare,

No more photos, and no photos allowed either.

All the homes showed very well. The jury did a great job vetting, from small homes to larger homes, but nothing too large.

The Kessler Wood was stunning and very modest in size, as was Wyatt Circle 1. The Browning property had a nice feel, but Kessler was our favorite.

We went to dinner after to compare notes, and first on our list was the same... very disappointed in the art overall.

An excellent day. Cool
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by mangiare:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by mangiare:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wine+art:
strong mid-century modern mindsets

My favourite by a longshot. Would love to tour the case study homes one day.


mangiare,

www.hometourdallas.com

You will notice the womb chair quickly I'm confident. Wink


The only one I can see from the pics on an iphone looks like a knock- off. Could just be on a small screen. Is it possibe to find better pics of the homes?

Which home did you appreciate the most given the mid- century context.


mangiare,

No more photos, and no photos allowed either.

All the homes showed very well. The jury did a great job vetting, from small homes to larger homes, but nothing too large.

The Kessler Wood was stunning and very modest in size, as was Wyatt Circle 1. The Browning property had a nice feel, but Kessler was our favorite.

We went to dinner after to compare notes, and first on our list was the same... very disappointed in the art overall.

An excellent day. Cool


I like some of the modern architecture in homes, they look cool. But with some I wonder how comfortable I would be living in them. Were any of them like that?
ThistlinTom, I get to see many luxury homes in my line of work and I would live in a well done mid-century modern one (not to be confused with modern) all day long.

W&A, it's a real womb chair.
From the limited pictures, I like Browning Lane and Wyatt Circle 1. The use of wood, stone, and glass in Browning Lane adds a lot of texture and warmth to something that could be perceived as cold. Love the table in Wyatt Circle 1- looks familiar Wink
I enjoy mid-century modern, it has an inherent warmth to it that most Deco or International Style homes don’t. I understand Industrial Chic and New Modernism and they can be striking as well but I very much gravitate to homes with a high degree of inviting warmth and comfort. Very few IS-modern homes and pretty much zero PoMo homes gives me that. I think the heavy use of wood in mid-century modern, new modernism, Wright homes etc. gives you that warmth and feeling of “home” instead of “house”.

Aesthetically and comfort wise, I like living in Edwardian and Victorian homes the best. It’s like wearing an ancient, moth eaten sweater that feels great despite the holes. While clean modernism can be more calming, I find Edwardian/Victorian more comforting. I love the perfection of Georgian but it can be stifling.
quote:
Originally posted by Jabe11:
The first structure I thought of after looking up mid-century modern was the Salk Institute (Louis Kahn), a building I have done a lot of work in (great Facilities crew there)...but I might consider the complex 'extreme mid-century modern mindset' Smile


Worked at the Salk Institute for 2 and a half years. Very cool design. I haven't been back since the expansion. I hope they did a good job with the new structure.
quote:
Originally posted by Red guy in a blue state:
quote:
Originally posted by Jabe11:
The first structure I thought of after looking up mid-century modern was the Salk Institute (Louis Kahn), a building I have done a lot of work in (great Facilities crew there)...but I might consider the complex 'extreme mid-century modern mindset' Smile


Worked at the Salk Institute for 2 and a half years. Very cool design.


The great Louis Kahn. A great building indeed.

The Kimbell in Ft. Worth ( first phase) is also a wonderful Kahn building if you ever visit DFW.
quote:
Originally posted by mangiare:
ThistlinTom, I get to see many luxury homes in my line of work and I would live in a well done mid-century modern one (not to be confused with modern) all day long.

W&A, it's a real womb chair. Yes it was. In fact, all their mid-century furniture was bought from certified vintage sales. I noticed the pieces were somewhat to very worn. The architect told me this was the desire of the owners.


From the limited pictures, I like Browning Lane and Wyatt Circle 1. The use of wood, stone, and glass in Browning Lane adds a lot of texture and warmth to something that could be perceived as cold. Love the table in Wyatt Circle 1- looks familiar Wink Very limited photo's as you know, and impossible to get a true feel of scale without visiting each home. but your eye did catch some of the finest choices.
Some very interesting comments about the AIA Dallas home tour. Thanks to all for sharing their insights.

One of the reasons I prefer mid-century modern over modern or contemporary is scale. I often find modern and contemporary to be far more suitable for commercial, museums and public spaces. I find the scale of mid-century modern very conducive for residential.

My opinion. Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by GreenDrazi:
I suppose you mid-century (whatever the heck that is) types prefer Rococo over Baroque too.


Rococo burns better so I prefer it.

If I had to live in it, I would go baroque as I would have a little more time of sanity before I lost my mind.
quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Sutherland:
quote:
Originally posted by GreenDrazi:
I suppose you mid-century (whatever the heck that is) types prefer Rococo over Baroque too.


Rococo burns better so I prefer it... we can only hope!

If I had to live in it, I would go baroque as I would have a little more time of sanity before I lost my mind.


Either is what hell looks like to fans of mid-century modern.
I'm not happy with the architect I've been working with. I gave her a budget, she did the work, I paid and now after getting 3 bids, the project is 3x what I told her my budget was. Mulling on how to proceed and how willing I am to have her start over or litigate.
quote:
Originally posted by tanglenet:
I'm not happy with the architect I've been working with. I gave her a budget, she did the work, I paid and now after getting 3 bids, the project is 3x what I told her my budget was. Mulling on how to proceed and how willing I am to have her start over or litigate.


Tanglenet, did you have any meetings with her during the design? If so pay the bill as you knew what was going on, otherwise litigate. Hope you had a contract specifying what your budget was, design style size etc. Maybe she can offer cheaper alternatives. Who were the bidders? Her folks or yours? IMHO she is an idiot!!
quote:
Originally posted by Ed Bowers [i.e. FlWino]:
quote:
Originally posted by tanglenet:
I'm not happy with the architect I've been working with. I gave her a budget, she did the work, I paid and now after getting 3 bids, the project is 3x what I told her my budget was. Mulling on how to proceed and how willing I am to have her start over or litigate.


Tanglenet, did you have any meetings with her during the design? If so pay the bill as you knew what was going on, otherwise litigate. Hope you had a contract specifying what your budget was, design style size etc. Maybe she can offer cheaper alternatives. Who were the bidders? Her folks or yours? IMHO she is an idiot!!


Standard AIA contract. The scope of work was outlined by her but the (my) budget for the cost of the project was not. I don't think she's incompetent, I think she doesn't care if the project was built or not as she was going to be paid upfront for the drawings, submittal for approval, working with the structural engineer, etc.
I want to through a bomb in here. (How unusual for me.) As a member of MOCA you get a free subscription to Dwell magazine. Now I'm into modern architecture, but I couldn't stand about 90% of the things in there. Most of time looked like if you fell you'd gash yourself on something--most likely the furniture. The houses all have the same hard edged coldness to them. Somehow they took the concepts of Neutra and Schindler, but left behind the humanness.

So I actually called the museum and told them they could save money and stop sending me issues. My mother gets Architectural Digest, but I couldn't subscribe to a magazine that regularly has Barbara Streisand on the cover.
quote:
Originally posted by tanglenet:
quote:
Originally posted by Ed Bowers [i.e. FlWino]:
quote:
Originally posted by tanglenet:
I'm not happy with the architect I've been working with. I gave her a budget, she did the work, I paid and now after getting 3 bids, the project is 3x what I told her my budget was. Mulling on how to proceed and how willing I am to have her start over or litigate.


Tanglenet, did you have any meetings with her during the design? If so pay the bill as you knew what was going on, otherwise litigate. Hope you had a contract specifying what your budget was, design style size etc. Maybe she can offer cheaper alternatives. Who were the bidders? Her folks or yours? IMHO she is an idiot!!


Standard AIA contract. The scope of work was outlined by her but the (my) budget for the cost of the project was not. I don't think she's incompetent, I think she doesn't care if the project was built or not as she was going to be paid upfront for the drawings, submittal for approval, working with the structural engineer, etc.


with our builder and Architect each item has a price attached and the own has the option of accepting or declining the option. This on a program called c0-construct. provides space for drawings, Docs, contract, pricing, specs etc.

Looks like you will have to scale back a lot of stuff before permits. Feel for your angst.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
I want to through a bomb in here. (How unusual for me.) As a member of MOCA you get a free subscription to Dwell magazine. Now I'm into modern architecture, but I couldn't stand about 90% of the things in there. Most of time looked like if you fell you'd gash yourself on something--most likely the furniture. The houses all have the same hard edged coldness to them. Somehow they took the concepts of Neutra and Schindler, but left behind the humanness.

So I actually called the museum and told them they could save money and stop sending me issues. My mother gets Architectural Digest, but I couldn't subscribe to a magazine that regularly has Barbara Streisand on the cover.


Totally agree regarding your views on Dwell.
quote:
Originally posted by tanglenet:
I'm not happy with the architect I've been working with. I gave her a budget, she did the work, I paid and now after getting 3 bids, the project is 3x what I told her my budget was. Mulling on how to proceed and how willing I am to have her start over or litigate.

Had a similar issue. Wanted to add on to the back of the house, Gave the architect our budget, some rough sketches my dad did, and her fee (also as GC) was almost 20% of our total budget. We stopped right there. She had taken over for her father who was much more renown, so we let it drop.
quote:
Originally posted by mangiare:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
I want to through a bomb in here. (How unusual for me.) As a member of MOCA you get a free subscription to Dwell magazine. Now I'm into modern architecture, but I couldn't stand about 90% of the things in there. Most of time looked like if you fell you'd gash yourself on something--most likely the furniture. The houses all have the same hard edged coldness to them. Somehow they took the concepts of Neutra and Schindler, but left behind the humanness.

So I actually called the museum and told them they could save money and stop sending me issues. My mother gets Architectural Digest, but I couldn't subscribe to a magazine that regularly has Barbara Streisand on the cover.


Totally agree regarding your views on Dwell.


Dwell is one of my go to magazines for flying. It is rare I do not see something that causes me to think.

For me, if I get one idea it is worth turning the pages, and I killed some time on an airplane. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Dwell is one of my go to magazines for flying. It is rare I do not see something that causes me to think.

For me, if I get one idea it is worth turning the pages, and I killed some time on a airplane. Smile

I knew we were going to go in opposite directions on this one.
Most all modern houses turn me off. I hate cheap copies of Tuscan style house here in Palm Beach County. Now where near what it is in Europe.

Grew up in a house that was built in 1904, with real wood - Chestnut. Space!!!

My desires are for natural materials, stone and wood. Hate contemporary and modern style. No metal furniture. Earth tones.

when I work on these plans of the homes being built here I cringe with the false style desired by the owners and some of the architects. Most houses are not really 'liveable'.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Dwell is one of my go to magazines for flying. It is rare I do not see something that causes me to think.

For me, if I get one idea it is worth turning the pages, and I killed some time on an airplane. Smile

I knew we were going to go in opposite directions on this one.


I do not think we are at opposite directions here. I'm just saying it is rare I do not pick up a thought or an idea from turning pages, ( positive & negative) and this is a magazine I buy at airports every month. I cannot imagine how many issues I have left on airplanes in my life. Their recent focus on sustainable landscaping has been very informative for me. It can also be something as simple as the use of a color or the juxtaposition of something.

You tend to be far more literal than I am. Razz

I certainly understand how one may not like any specific style of design. I tend to appreciate almost all design style done well even if it is something I could never live with or like, yet as I said, I can appreciate them. ( ex: Early American & Victorian just to name two)

I also have found certain design styles work better for me than others based on where I am in my life. When the kids were still living with us, our home was very different, and our weekend home then was very different also but both served us well for that time in our lives.

I must also admit that staying true to my personal motto in life, ( stay curious and never static) also lends well to change and different experiences. It is hard for me to have an informed opinion without personally experiencing something.

At this time in my life, simplify is a major driving force in many or most decisions I/we make in all walks of our life, including but not limited to style/design, personal finances, decluttering of many MANY things even including what I collect and enjoy in life. Yes, this even includes wine, watches and even art. Eek While we are still buying art very actively, we have moved 75-100 pieces out of our possession over the last couple of years. ALL of this has given us a real sense of freedom in some odd way.

While there are similarities in our Dallas and Santa Fe homes, they are also different at the same time.

I also think some of this has to do with ones age and where one is at in their life. D and I are amazed how many friends we have that are also having similar feelings currently, even though most have not acted upon them. This very topic became an unplanned discussion at an off-line recently, and how we all much prefer small or smaller off-lines today than in the past. The intimacy word was used several times. Big Grin

Anyway, stay curious and never ever static in life. It is far FAR easier to say those words than to act upon them I have observed in life. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by Jabe11:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
strong mid-century modern mindsets:

I'll look up this style, as I'm not sure what it should look like, but I think of Edward Hopper.


Jabe, when you get beck to San Diego we must talk. Big Grin


Ha! Yes, you know I'll make a good student Smile
quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Sutherland:

Aesthetically and comfort wise, I like living in Edwardian and Victorian homes the best. It’s like wearing an ancient, moth eaten sweater that feels great despite the holes. While clean modernism can be more calming, I find Edwardian/Victorian more comforting. I love the perfection of Georgian but it can be stifling.


As it is so abundant here, one of my interests presently is trying to identify these different styles in buildings, but from an external perspective. Gothic/Gothic revival and neo-classical seem much easier to identify.
I like the classic Federal style, and for a perfect house building I prefer the work done by Andrea Palladio. Perfect balance, calmness, and unity.

His success as an architect is based not only on the beauty of his work, but also for its harmony with the culture of time. His success and influence came from the integration of extraordinary aesthetic quality with expressive characteristics that resonated with his client's social aspirations. His buildings served to communicate, visually, their place in the social order of their culture. This powerful integration of beauty and the physical representation of social meanings is apparent in three major building types he designed, be it 1]the urban palazzo, 2] agricultural villa, or 3] a church.

Great houses are in Vicenza, and Padua. Have toured 10 - 15 of these over the years.
quote:
Originally posted by Ed Bowers [i.e. FlWino]:
I like the classic Federal style, and for a perfect house building I prefer the work done by Andrea Palladio. Perfect balance, calmness, and unity.

His success as an architect is based not only on the beauty of his work, but also for its harmony with the culture of time. His success and influence came from the integration of extraordinary aesthetic quality with expressive characteristics that resonated with his client's social aspirations. His buildings served to communicate, visually, their place in the social order of their culture. This powerful integration of beauty and the physical representation of social meanings is apparent in three major building types he designed, be it 1]the urban palazzo, 2] agricultural villa, or 3] a church.

Great houses are in Vicenza, and Padua. Have toured 10 - 15 of these over the years.


I can relate. We lived in Vicenza for 6 years. I regret never doing a tour of his more far-flung villas around the province. The land is indelible of him.
quote:
Originally posted by tanglenet:
quote:
Originally posted by Ed Bowers [i.e. FlWino]:
quote:
Originally posted by tanglenet:
I'm not happy with the architect I've been working with. I gave her a budget, she did the work, I paid and now after getting 3 bids, the project is 3x what I told her my budget was. Mulling on how to proceed and how willing I am to have her start over or litigate.


Tanglenet, did you have any meetings with her during the design? If so pay the bill as you knew what was going on, otherwise litigate. Hope you had a contract specifying what your budget was, design style size etc. Maybe she can offer cheaper alternatives. Who were the bidders? Her folks or yours? IMHO she is an idiot!!


Standard AIA contract. The scope of work was outlined by her but the (my) budget for the cost of the project was not. I don't think she's incompetent, I think she doesn't care if the project was built or not as she was going to be paid upfront for the drawings, submittal for approval, working with the structural engineer, etc.


That is unfortunate, tanglenet, and feel for you in your predicament. Most of the contracts i have worked through are general building or subcontract and designers usually include follow through...throughout the design/build process (I have heard it called design/build/sue) including perhaps 5% added for clarification for pricing/building, and perhaps a seperate line for error/omissions insurance. But then, this is for larger commercial projects where the contract template is already heavily in favor of the owner (or rather, he who has the money and wishes to part with it) and are for significantly more sums.

I always had a distain for residential work ( there was always a picky owner peeping over your shoulder) unless it was a relationship building exercise with a likelihood of future contract acquisition.
quote:
Originally posted by Jabe11:
Regarding churches in Italy (in the Veneto, at least), does anyone know why the campanile is almost exclusively (at least with Catholic Churches) a separate structure from the main church?

It's kind of a circular discussion. A campanile, or bell tower, is by definition a separate building. When the bells are housed in the church it is usually referred to as being in the steeple. Perhaps bell towers are separate because those suckers sure get very loud.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jabe11:
Regarding churches in Italy (in the Veneto, at least), does anyone know why the campanile is almost exclusively (at least with Catholic Churches) a separate structure from the main church?

It's kind of a circular discussion. A campanile, or bell tower, is by definition a separate building. When the bells are housed in the church it is usually referred to as being in the steeple. Perhaps bell towers are separate because those suckers sure get very loud.


Not really. Bell Towers were developed to ward off evil spirits, illness etc. The Church was 'holy', spirits 'unholy' thus they were kept apart.
quote:
Originally posted by Ed Bowers [i.e. FlWino]:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jabe11:
Regarding churches in Italy (in the Veneto, at least), does anyone know why the campanile is almost exclusively (at least with Catholic Churches) a separate structure from the main church?

It's kind of a circular discussion. A campanile, or bell tower, is by definition a separate building. When the bells are housed in the church it is usually referred to as being in the steeple. Perhaps bell towers are separate because those suckers sure get very loud.


Not really. Bell Towers were developed to ward off evil spirits, illness etc. The Church was 'holy', spirits 'unholy' thus they were kept apart.

I cannot find a reference for this. As far as I can tell they were developed for the same purpose they serve today--to call the faithful to worship.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Ed Bowers [i.e. FlWino]:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jabe11:
Regarding churches in Italy (in the Veneto, at least), does anyone know why the campanile is almost exclusively (at least with Catholic Churches) a separate structure from the main church?

It's kind of a circular discussion. A campanile, or bell tower, is by definition a separate building. When the bells are housed in the church it is usually referred to as being in the steeple. Perhaps bell towers are separate because those suckers sure get very loud.


Not really. Bell Towers were developed to ward off evil spirits, illness etc. The Church was 'holy', spirits 'unholy' thus they were kept apart.

I cannot find a reference for this. As far as I can tell they were developed for the same purpose they serve today--to call the faithful to worship.


And to tell time.
quote:
Originally posted by tanglenet:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Ed Bowers [i.e. FlWino]:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jabe11:
Regarding churches in Italy (in the Veneto, at least), does anyone know why the campanile is almost exclusively (at least with Catholic Churches) a separate structure from the main church?

It's kind of a circular discussion. A campanile, or bell tower, is by definition a separate building. When the bells are housed in the church it is usually referred to as being in the steeple. Perhaps bell towers are separate because those suckers sure get very loud.


Not really. Bell Towers were developed to ward off evil spirits, illness etc. The Church was 'holy', spirits 'unholy' thus they were kept apart.

I cannot find a reference for this. As far as I can tell they were developed for the same purpose they serve today--to call the faithful to worship.


And to tell time.


One of the historical reasons for building the tower separate was to allow the use of larger bells, the sound waves from which could have damaged the main building. The largest bell in the tower weighs eight tonnes.
quote:
Originally posted by Ed Bowers [i.e. FlWino]:One of the historical reasons for building the tower separate was to allow the use of larger bells, the sound waves from which could have damaged the main building. The largest bell in the tower weighs eight tonnes.

I couldn't find a reference to this, but it was one of my thoughts also.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Ed Bowers [i.e. FlWino]:One of the historical reasons for building the tower separate was to allow the use of larger bells, the sound waves from which could have damaged the main building. The largest bell in the tower weighs eight tonnes.

I couldn't find a reference to this, but it was one of my thoughts also.


Surprising what you can find in Google Big Grin
I absolutely love the tintinnabulation of ringing bells! It is one of the many things I love about Europe. I wish we had more of them in the states.

My fondest memory of playing Pinehurst #2 is walking down the fairway with my caddie on #1 enjoying the tintinnabulation of the church bells. The entire world felt a million miles away at that very moment.

Bell towers... IIRC from a simple level 200 architecture class ( too many years ago) bell towers were often not completed from the original church design due to cost, and when/if added at a later date the tower was far more cost efficient. An example of that is in Dallas. The oldest and largest ( attendance) Catholic church in Dallas is located downtown. After over 100 years of not having their original designed steeple with bells, the church was going to build a bell tower in lieu of the original design. With the help of the Dallas AIA and private funds from the arts district the money was raised to complete the original design from the original architectural plans at great expense. It is beautiful and is perfectly juxtaposition against the architecture of I.M.Pei, Sir Norman Foster, Renzo Piano and other modern architects within the arts district.

I also recall if towns did not have a church in their center with a bell steeple, the town itself would often build one in the center of town which is often near the church or even on church property since the church was often the center of early towns. ( see Santa Fe) Besides religious usages, the bells were used as a call to all for, fires, enemy attacks, weather warnings, non - religious celebrations, civic events, trails, et al.
Living in an ancient land gives one interested in architecture many pleasures. In our town, there are several Gothic revival late Gothic churches, a number of Tudor period half-timber houses, with what I would imagine are grade II listed cottages, and any number of historical manors lying throughout the wider area.

I have a fondness for half-timbered Tudor; it is interesting to note modern designs here incorporate this feature with faux planking and white washed plaster that is very true in appearance to centuries passed.
FWIW, we lived about 200 meters from a church and we loved the bell toll...It was quite loud and at times startled the kids. They did not ring after 6 pm. Ironically, it was not a Catholic church, and the bell tower was integral with the main building.

The other residence we were at was a village location with a single church that tolled the top and bottom of every hour, everyday. The church was a kilometer away and it's soft purring at night was soothing....plus you knew how much longer you were able to sleep, if arisen.
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
Jc, you stayed in Abadia del Priorat, didn't you? It's closed now. Pity. I hoped to stay there again. I know Roger has a few rooms available at Mas Trucafort, but I'm not sure that's where I'd want to stay.


We did. Was very enjoyable. I would have stayed in Falset probably if I did it again though
quote:
Originally posted by Redhawk:
Finally made a trip to visit the Broad Museum of Art at the Michigan State University campus. It is a very striking architectural piece by Zaha Hadid. It contrasts so heavily with the neighboring 19th century buildings, that it actually works.


I like a lot of her work.

No mention of the art?
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by Redhawk:
Finally made a trip to visit the Broad Museum of Art at the Michigan State University campus. It is a very striking architectural piece by Zaha Hadid. It contrasts so heavily with the neighboring 19th century buildings, that it actually works.


I like a lot of her work.

No mention of the art?


This is the "Architecture and Design thread". Razz

Actually, I enjoyed the Hope Gangloff exhibition, with modern portraitures contrasted with 18th and 19th century works from the Broad collection. There was also a showing of works by Beverly Fishman, which intrigued me more for the craftmanship of the pieces, rather than meaning she apparently was trying to convey. There was also a multiscreen video installation by Michelle Handelman, which I thought was a little disturbing, but also followed a formula which I have seen before, and therefore I just thought it wasn't all that creative. Unfortunately, the upstairs gallery was closed for change of exhibits.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Worked David Scott's Outside the Box book cover to cover last night.

Didn't Barnes & Noble's eventually kick you out? Razz


Barnes & Noble. That is the company Amazon put out of business, right? Smile
We had a decent pub lunch on Friday, across the street from All Saints Church in Huntingdon , a smallish late Gothic church in the perpendicular style. Small and unimposing for Gothic, but well proportioned and pleasing to look at. Unbelievably, it was heated and warmer inside than out.

Driving home, we passed through a town called Godmanchester, a townm chartered in 1212. Not much there, but an interesting series of houses/cottages, including a good example of a small 3-level jettied tudor.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Worked David Scott's Outside the Box book cover to cover last night.

Didn't Barnes & Noble's eventually kick you out? Razz

Actually I've had a discussion with an employee or two, who they've posted at the front to hawk the Nook, that they're working on putting themselves out of work.

Barnes & Noble. That is the company Amazon put out of business, right? Smile
Made the short drive today to view the Chapel at King's College. The town is a wonderland for historical architecture.

Exceptional inside as well as out Magnificent fan vaults were of special note Again surprised to feel it heated...under floor. Built over a century, the ceiling was amazingly completed in 3 years due to influx of cash, and a superb master mason. An interesting history of the building, tied to the history of the country...War of the Roses, a few different kings and whatnot. I couldn't help but think, when viewing the exterior, of a car seat that is set too vertical/upright. Regardless, the building is a capolavoro , no two ways about it. Correctly identified painter of an alter piece, a Rubens, an Adoration of the Magi....just thought I'd mention that Big Grin
Last week we drove up to see the Peterborough Cathedral . Early English Gothic. Even seeing pictures of the incredible West Front before hand does not diminish the experience of the initial sight, in person, from ground level. Incredible. Useless factoid: final resting place of Catherine of Aragorn is here.
Unlike what we heard from many people, the center city (walking area) is very pleasant.
Tower of London. Not so much as a building, as a complex. A bygone symbol of power, it still holds its own appropriately amongst the skyline of the City. A bit touristed out, and, for a 900 year old building, obviously redone at some point. Still, quite a sight and worth the trip.

Crown jewels were a bit of a disappointment...amounted to a half dozen crowns from the 20th century, a few sceptres and swords, a punch bowl set...a few other curiosities. The only others I have ever seen to compare, in Vienna, outdid these by a country mile.
Another day out at the Burghley House yesterday. An amazing place, showing kids movies in a part of a garden adjacent to the house...what a venue. Gardens were layout out by Capability Brown. My appreciation for the 'English Garden,' has definitely grown since moving here. There is a tree, an oak I think, planted by Queen Victoria.

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