purplehaze posted:bman posted:purplehaze posted:flwino posted:
True the House could seek impeachment, however it will go nowhere in the Mitch House. Sorry, sad state of affairs. Shame it has to be 67 votes to convict
Conviction in the Senate is not the primary goal of impeachment now. And I think that the originally reasonable arguments by Pelosi et al. against impeachment have gone by the wayside with this most recent idiocy from the WH. It's time for the Congress, to borrow a phrase from the mango mussolini, to lock and load.
For one, PH, I disagree with something you say about you-know-who. If the House were to vote to impeach him I fear it would be seen as purely partisan, especially as there is zero chance of him actually being forced out, and so just supercharge his base and Republicans. That is the last thing needed a little more than a year out from an election. Let him continue to misbehave and the middle ground that will decide the next election will tire ever more of him and vote him out.
The focus now needs to be on outcomes not process.
1- It's the job of the Congress to impeach when iron-clad evidence exists that sufficient high crimes and misdemeanors have been committed. They've been wavering on the edge for many months now. If the Ukraine allegations prove true, the Democratic party would be negligent not to at least begin a formal inquiry. Again, conviction in the senate is not the end goal. An expedited process for disclosure of evidence and additional attention to the MANY misdeeds that have been foisted on the American public will help. Much as with Nixon, public sentiment was largely against impeachment at the beginning. When all the cards were laid on the table, the momentum to remove Nixon was irreversible.
2 - Partisan, schmartisan. The base is the base. It is NOT going to grow. There are many who didn't vote in 2016, some remaining republicans with some shred of decency and a slew of never-Hillary Dems and independent voters (the total of Stein votes in critical swing states were more than sufficient to swing the election to Clinton if they'd voted Dem) who, if mobilized, could make a meaningful difference in 2020.
3 - Ultimately, the country is now in a true constitutional crisis. Failure to act, and to act decisively could set an awful precedent for future presidents regardless of party affiliation. If rump pressured Zelensky to disparage Biden, it needs to be aired and pursued.
rump doesn't believe that the Dems will come after him, and that surety will affect his behavior going forward if he is not held to account. It's time.
PH, I can agree with your first comment that if the current allegations prove true then impeachment in the House would be appropriate. But only with pretty solid proof, allegations are not enough,especially with Zelensky backing Trump's denial. While his base would not care the all-important middle would be supportive.