I am not a Patriot fan, I pretty much hate that team(mostly because of what an *** Belicheck is).

Forget the cheating accusations, Belli could cheat all he wanted to, but if he did not have Brady it would not help him that much. Tom Brady is the Patriots. Is there anyone in here that can name any of the players on the Patriots offense from their first 3 Super Bowl wins? I can't. Just Tom Brady.

Brady takes pressure off his offensive line with fast reads of defenses, fast decisions and a fast release. He is not that mobile, but it really does not matter, he makes his reads so fast, and his OL is very solid, it is impossible to really get to him.

His smarts are off the charts, he has a strong accurate arm with a lightning quick release. It was only this year he had a big name, big threat WR in Moss. Wes Welker was a roster cut and now is a name every football fan knows because of the man getting him the ball.

Brady proved how tough he is in that Giants game. He took some real big hits and was harassed all game. How he got up from that massive hit with less then 30 seconds left in the game and throws the ball 70 yards through the air 2 straight times with dead on accuracy to Moss is amazing. The Giants defenders just played the ball perfectly.

Love the Patriots or hate them, and I could care less about the cheating thing, Brady is easily one of the 5 greatest QBs to ever play the game, and by the time he is done, maybe the greatest.

To me, he is the best in the game right now. Deffinitely not the most athletic, but the smartest by a wide margin. And you are right, he is tough in his own way, too.

Heck, today, right now, Eli is a better quarterback, he proved it Sunday. And, among active players, overall, Brady's second best, behind Favre.

But, legacies are hard to judge with mid-career players. If he retired next year, or was knocked out by injury, he'd be top five all-time in my book, behind Montana, Marino, and Favre, and ahead of Tarkenton and Unitas.

If Brady keeps producing for another five years or more, gets another ring, or three, isn't caught by one of the Mannings, then no doubt, he'll be judged the best of all time. He's without question a special quarterback, and one that I love to hate.

It just goes to show you how important having a good team can be. Did Elway suddenly become great his 13th and 14th years in the league when "he" won a ring? No, he had a damn good running back at the time. Marino never had a 1000 yrd. rusher and a poor/average D for most of his career and never got one.

I'd put Brady in the top 7 right now behind Montana, Marino, Elway, Tarkington, Farve, Staubach, Y.A., hmmmm I need to marinate on this a little.

Bottom line; With the time Brady had this year, any one of those QB's would've been successful. During the S.B. any one of those QB's would've looked as bad.

Wes wasn't a roster cut though. He was a (stupid)trade. I agree that you don't need a mobile QB to be successful. I also don't judge a player's greatness by home many "rings" he has. It's a team sport. Most Hall of Famers DON'T have a ring.

quote:

Originally posted by indybob:
Heck, today, right now, Eli is a better quarterback, he proved it Sunday. And, among active players, overall, Brady's second best, behind Favre.

But, legacies are hard to judge with mid-career players. If he retired next year, or was knocked out by injury, he'd be top five all-time in my book, behind Montana, Marino, and Favre, and ahead of Tarkenton and Unitas.

If Brady keeps producing for another five years or more, gets another ring, or three, isn't caught by one of the Mannings, then no doubt, he'll be judged the best of all time. He's without question a special quarterback, and one that I love to hate.

How exactly did Eli "prove" that? The superbowl wasn't Eli vs. Tom, it was the New England Patriots vs. NY Giants, wasn't it? Either way you look at it, both q-backs had average to sub-average games.

Brady is good, very good. I certainly have enjoyed watching him, and the rest of the Patriots since '01 play good, smart football. Although, I don't think we'll ever see another Joe Montana. 4-0 and 0 interceptions in superbowl appearances is hard to beat, now Brady won't ever touch that.

Brady is a very good QB. IMO not an all time great. All time great QB's don't whine and cry when they get hit a few times.

Brady deserves to be in the company of top ten qb's all-time.

How has everybody forgotten Peyton Manning? He's the epitome of an intelligent, quick-thinking team leader. Give him the time Brady had all year, and Manning probably surpasses Brady's totals.

I'd rank Brady and Peyton as 2 of the best ever along with Johnny U, Montana, Elway, Marino, Staubach, Bradshaw, Fouts, Young and Favre.

quote:

Originally posted by indybob:
Heck, today, right now, Eli is a better quarterback, he proved it Sunday. And, among active players, overall, Brady's second best, behind Favre.

But, legacies are hard to judge with mid-career players. If he retired next year, or was knocked out by injury, he'd be top five all-time in my book, behind Montana, Marino, and Favre, and ahead of Tarkenton and Unitas.

If Brady keeps producing for another five years or more, gets another ring, or three, isn't caught by one of the Mannings, then no doubt, he'll be judged the best of all time. He's without question a special quarterback, and one that I love to hate.

If I was going to type out a full response, it would be quite similar to indybob's, so I'll just quote his and say "yes"

That being said, among active players, Brady is currently the best quarterback...Farve, although still above him on the all-time list, did not outplay Brady this year.

Where does Pat Hayden measure up in the top ten list?

quote:

Originally posted by MiamiAtty:
Wes wasn't a roster cut though. He was a (stupid)trade.

MiamiAtty -

If you would just get out of your Miami-centric world for a minute , you would remember that Welker was a roster cut - by the Chargers - but a cut nonetheless....

And yes, it was a stupid trade by Miami....

I don't like him, but I respect him. Right now, I would put him somewhere in the the top 10. If he continues on this course, he will likely be considered one of the greatest all time.

quote:

MiamiAtty -

If you would just get out of your Miami-centric world for a minute , you would remember that Welker was a roster cut - by the Chargers - but a cut nonetheless....

You're right. From now on I will only talk about the CURRENT Dolphins. (I just handcuffed myself.)

I believe Don Strock is the second best Miami QB in the team's history.

Ahhh The Stroker, he and Earl Mor...er.....nevermind. ; X

Tony Nathan..the Killer B's...Marino....Clayton and Duper. Those were solid teams in the 80's. Parcells will bring a title to Miami!! He's now "shopping for the groceries"

quote:

IMO not an all time great. All time great QB's don't whine and cry when they get hit a few times.

I'm sure this is just bait, you can't be that ignorant. I guess Peyton doesn't make your list either, they both do their share of whining.

I don't go back far enough to compare him to anything pre 80's but he's in my top 3, maybe 5 but he's way ahead of Favre in my book. Too mant INT's and bad plays like his last pass in the NFC Championship for Favre. This article seems like a well reasoned ranking to me that takes into account the changes of the game over time and the old school guys I know little about. I'd have a hard time making a reasoned argument against it.

I think if they had won he would be with Aikman, Bradshaw, Montana who won three rings as well as others who won two or less. With the salary cap and parody now he is impressive, but their team is getting older now so we will see what 2008-9 season will bring. The Giants kept their defensive coordinator so they should be good next year especially if strahan comes back.

quote:

Originally posted by mpls wine guy:
I think if they had won he would be with Aikman, Bradshaw, Montana who won three rings as well as others who won two or less. With the salary cap and parody now he is impressive, but their team is getting older now so we will see what 2008-9 season will bring. The Giants kept their defensive coordinator so they should be good next year especially if strahan comes back.

Montana has 4 rings in 4 trips to the Super Bowl.

quote:

I'm sure this is just bait, you can't be that ignorant. I guess Peyton doesn't make your list either, they both do their share of whining.

Ice,
Yes, it was bait and you only nibbled at it..didn't you. Actually Brady showed me more toughness in the loss than he ever did with any win. He is in the top 10 qb's of all time...of course just behind Eli Manning
How bout them GIANTS!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Wine Wizard:
Tony Nathan..the Killer B's...Marino....Clayton and Duper. Those were solid teams in the 80's. Parcells will bring a title to Miami!! He's now "shopping for the groceries"

Never knowingly not solid.

This just got more interesting or more strange, depending on your point of view:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/23189844

If this is true, where do you rank him? If true, it did enhance his performance. Just do not know if it is true.

I'd put him in the top 5 all time. If he would have won this year, possibly the best of all time. My wife ranks him somewhere between me and Tiffany's.

quote:

Originally posted by MiamiAtty:
From now on I will only talk about the CURRENT Dolphins. (I just handcuffed myself.)

So, do you have anything to say about Jason Taylor?!?!?!?