quote:

...Should we just start having dinner in our boxers and eating with our hands?

PH

Yes.

(And take & post pics, please.)

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:
One guy two weeks ago walked into my office and placed a BIG GULP on my desk and asked me "Whats up?" I had a girl last week answer her cell phone during my interview!

Too funny. Reminds me one time I was interviewing candidates for a programmer position with my company. One guy that showed up all scruffy looking was obviously a drug user. One of my standard questions at the time was "You will be required to take a drug test to get this position. Can you take and pass a drug test?" I'll never forget his answer. "Will it just be a urine test or will they take a hair sample?"

quote:

Originally posted by Een:
I actually kept hand-written thank-yous as they were so rare. Believe me, I fought hard for anyone who showed they had manners and common consideration. You want people like that on your team.

Good point. Once I was interviewing candidates for an entry level programming position with my company. In comes this "kid" that was a college drop out English major with not a single programming class to his name. I asked him several technical questions and realized he knew everything I asked him once we developed a common language. However, I just wasn't quite ready to take a chance on him. Then came the hand written thank you note. Then the phone call from the recruiter saying the candidate called to follow-up. Then the personal phone to me to follow-up. I quickly realized experience or no experience I wanted somebody that was this conscientious on my team. He ultimately became one of the most talented programmers I ever hired. I still use his services on a contract basis to this day. He's now starting up his own software firm as well.

Oh, by the way, I interviewed dozens of recent college graduates for that position over a two month period and he's the ONLY one that sent me a thank you note.

quote:

Good point. Once I was interviewing candidates for an entry level programming position with my company. In comes this "kid" that was a college drop out English major with not a single programming class to his name. I asked him several technical questions and realized he knew everything I asked him once we developed a common language. However, I just wasn't quite ready to take a chance on him. Then came the hand written thank you note. Then the phone call from the recruiter saying the candidate called to follow-up. Then the personal phone to me to follow-up. I quickly realized experience or no experience I wanted somebody that was this conscientious on my team. He ultimately became one of the most talented programmers I ever hired. I still use his services on a contract basis to this day. He's now starting up his own software firm as well.

Nice story WIML. (I remember you having shared it with me at an off-line.)

Damn, with all these losers, I should go back into the workforce. I'd clean up!!!

quote:

Originally posted by just a skosh:

quote:

...Should we just start having dinner in our boxers and eating with our hands?

PH

Yes.

(And take & post pics, please.)

Hmmmm.... could make an interesting "sub theme" for the Brunello dinner.

WIML, thanks for sharing that story. I would have enjoyed working with you. I am a strong believer in behavior-based interviewing as well as using my ability to see past a resume. Some of the best hires I made were of people who didn't initially appear to be the best fit.

I had to do a lot of work with younger managers who didn't want to hire people of different ethnic groups because they felt they wouldn't "fit in".

One candidate was just great. He had excellent technical skills and was able to communicate to me his past ability to be a strong team member. They didn't want to hire him because he didn't drink. They wanted this other guy who was not skilled in Java and who was completely unable to show he'd be a good worker but he was "fun". I got very irate and pulled the two managers into a room and asked how someone who had proven they were able to meet deadlines, work with others and creatively solve problems would not fit in with the group and its goals.

My guy got hired and was great. My husband ended up recruiting him away to his company and, although he eventually left, he's doing very well at a large statistical software firm. He still writes M. and asks how "Miss Lisa" is doing.

I also believe manners go both ways in the job search. I would never leave a candidate hanging if we didn't have an answer. I'd just call and say we didn't know yet and let them know when. It was so easy to do and it means a lot to people who are looking for work. Same for rejections. It doesn't take more than a minute to nicely call and let someone know what happened with their interivew.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spo:
One thing about kids. I hate it when their parents will not tell them no. I also hate it when they (parents) want to be friends with their kids.
QUOTE]

This describes a pair of my in-laws to a tee. Kid got everything he ever wanted from them, never heard the word, "No", and probably still has a baby-smooth behind. Now he's 12, has no friends, and has been through several schools, a battery of pyschologists, and half the pharmacy to try to understand and modify his behavior.

Kids today have no concept of etiquette? I deal with that on a daily basis. So while it might have been a bit of a generalization, it is pretty true.

As for the restaurant stuff, we have been taking Dom and Vin as long as I can remember, and they will be four in May. While I am proud of them, the fact that so many people compliment us on how well-behaved they are, how they say please and thank you, etc., it almost saddens me even more than it makes me proud. It is so sad because manners and common courtesy are now out of the norm....

Spo and mneeley, I totally agree.

I really do appreciate good parents and really can't imagine that most of the people I've met here would not impart good manners and consideration.

I'm very close to my friend's nine year-old. I've known her since she was a toddler. When we lived in the same building and I was telecommuting I took over most of her afternoon care as her mother was very stretched. Her mom credits me with E.'s good manners and I feel very honored.

What is the proper protocol for destroying losing mega-millions tickets.

Use them.

quote:

Originally posted by Spiral:
What is the proper protocol for destroying losing mega-millions tickets.

Actually, thge proper protocol is to retain them so that they can be used to offset the tax burden on your winnings when you do hit the mother lode.

PH

If you are in college, or a child of the 60's of 70's, they have an obvious use. I would check if the ink is toxic, first.

quote:

If you are in college, or a child of the 60's of 70's, they have an obvious use. I would check if the ink is toxic, first.

quote:

Originally posted by mattach:

quote:

Originally posted by Een:
I will for farther and say that the generation to which I belong, Generation X, is doing a pretty horrifying job at parenting.

een - that's quite a blanket statement you just made and i would strongly disagree with it. i am of that generation as well (born in 1969) and so are most of my friends with children - when we bring our 2 year old out with us to dinner, we only eat at restaurants that cater to serving to children (pizza, etc..) and we NEVER interrupt others' meals if our child has a meltdown ...maybe that's a chicago thing

"It takes a village to raise a child".

What do you expect when society today argues that there are 18 sides to every coin.

In my family, it starts with respect. My girls are still young, but they already understand the importance of respect, good manners and honesty. Something my parents taught me at an early age (albiet taught with a wooden spoon ...now that's another discussion altogether)

I thought it took a village-idiot to raise a child!

The village is a challenge to good parenting. If you are a lousy parent - prefer the BMW to your child's welfare - you allow society to raise your child - schools, pop culture, other poorly raised kids. The results are logical consequences, not surprises.

The problem I see, is that many people today believe they can continue life as it was after the baby is born. "But, I have a right to persue my dreams, too." "If I'm not happy and fulfilled, how could my child be?" "Pre-school is good for my child and will assure success in the future." All self-indulgent, weak rationales for selfish, immature behavior.

The baby boomer "Me" generation has been abysmal in child rearing, in my opinion (along with everything else we have added to the society). I am viewed as a freak or a cave man and my wife gets a lot of silly comments because she doesn't work outside the home. We decided they were our children, concluded we neither liked nor trusted "The Village," and see parenting as a solemn duty - yes duty, the ugliest word in America today.

Are we perfect? No, of course not. I do, however, feel my kids are reaching their college years with no doubt in their minds that after our marriage, they are the most important thing in our lives, with the ability to think, to stand up for their principles and they have highly acute BS meters. Excellent behavior is expected of them. They have been taught to respect themselves and others. They don't leave the house in suggestive clothing and most importantly, understand why it's not appropriate and would not choose that stuff.

Like many who have posted, we took the children to social events and restaurants from an early age and they learned to sit up at the tale, say please and thank you and to order a meal, looking a server in the eye.

Wow. Provacative and thoughtful post. This discussion really hits home. Etiqutte and manners really have gone to hell in a handbasket, especially in the last few years. I am reminded of this daily during my morning and evening commute times. Don't even get me started on the cell phone thing. The lack of consideration for others dispayed by people sometimes blows my mind.

One thing that bothers me about this conversation is that it seems that a few posters dis the parenting skills of others, yet don't have kids. Be careful....my wife and I used to do the same thing. It is a lot easier said than done. Raising children has been the most rewarding but difficult experience of my life. And I am still in the preschool years with both children! I only hope that I can instill a healthy sense of courtesy, honesty, and respect for others. It is a difficult job, and despite the pitfalls, I think we are off to a great start.

Interesting that the focus of the discussion has moved to children.

Parents teaching their children is where social graciousness begins. Often, unfortunately, it is where it ends as well.

It's rare that an unmannered child becomes a cultured adult. What will these children teach, or fail to teach their children?

Ugh.

PH

Red guy, although I am not a parent, I heavily participated in the parenting of the child of the friend I mentioned above. For three years of her life I was with her almost every day after nursery school until she went to bed. I am still a heavy presence in her life. I remember times when I took her to the car with me for a time out, rather than let her throw a fit in a store. I explained why we weren't in the store and why certain behaviors were necessary. No yelling.

I also mentor a teenaged girl in our neighborhood who comes from a very underprivileged background (she will be the first ever to graduate from high school in her family this year). That has been challenging for me as I see her fall into patterns established by her mother. I wish there was more I could do there.

I have learned that children have a will of their own and that there are days when there will be tantrums or when they won't agree with you. But, I do believe, how parents deal with those moments are key. If a child starts to freak out in a restaurant, then it's time to get outside for a couple of minutes to calm down. Personally I have witnessed many parents just kid of ignoring it.

Through my experiences with kids I have learned to be kinder to parents when a kid is having a meltdown.

In the end, I know it's not always easy. My husband and I have chosen to remain childless as it's such a vast undertaking and we know we make better mentors and aunt and uncle. That is what we can handle.

You sound like you would be a wonderful parent. The message I get from you is the most important thing with kids - you don't let good behavior go unnoticed, and you defintiely do not allow bad behavior to go unnoticed and corrected, firmly, honestly and with a healthy does of love. You've gotta be involved every day and sometimes correcdt them for the same thing over and over and over.

quote:

Originally posted by Red guy in a blue state:
Wow. Provacative and thoughtful post. This discussion really hits home. Etiqutte and manners really have gone to hell in a handbasket, especially in the last few years. I am reminded of this daily during my morning and evening commute times. Don't even get me started on the cell phone thing. The lack of consideration for others dispayed by people sometimes blows my mind.

One thing that bothers me about this conversation is that it seems that a few posters dis the parenting skills of others, yet don't have kids. Be careful....my wife and I used to do the same thing. It is a lot easier said than done. Raising children has been the most rewarding but difficult experience of my life. And I am still in the preschool years with both children! I only hope that I can instill a healthy sense of courtesy, honesty, and respect for others. It is a difficult job, and despite the pitfalls, I think we are off to a great start.

I know people who are not parents should not judge people who are, but I do see parents who hardly qualify as good citizens on a regular basis. I also see parents who make their kids look well behaved. I just take the next logical step and consider them bad parents.

quote:

Originally posted by KillerB:
I thought it took a village-idiot to raise a child!

Someone entrusting their offspring with Bella Donna?

What is noteworthy is that all of us complaining about poor manners of the younger folk were once younger folk, about whose manners our parents complained.

Except for Eddie Haskel.
(Yes, Mrs. Cleaver)

quote:

Originally posted by irwin:

Except for Eddie Haskel.
(Yes, Mrs. Cleaver)

Everything was so black and white in those days, wasn't it?