I was motivated to start this thread after reading the Clueless Dinner Guests thread. It occurred to me that I’m of an age and background where basic social etiquette was instilled in me as part of my upbringing, and has been something that I rarely think about consciously unless I run into a situation where it’s conspicuously absent. This seems to be happening to me more and more lately.
I’ve met many people, both older and younger than I, for whom some of these basics, i.e. writing thank you notes, gift giving and receiving protocol, basic table manners, the proper way to introduce people, etc., are either not being taught, or are just not considered important any more.
I guess I’m kind of “old school” in this regard, and believe that the little social dances we go through as part of a being civilized people add to the quality of life and give us a framework for social interaction. Am I hopelessly out of touch? Are good manners and proper etiquette important any more? Should we just start having dinner in our boxers and eating with our hands?
PH
Posts: 9625 | Location: Maryland, USA (DC suburbs) | Registered: Nov 22, 2003
That was a great post and one we all ought to think about. I believe our social interactions have become far too casual. I agree that traditions and customs are what define a culture and are generally good. If they are not generally good, they do not become customs or traditions.
Good manners, self control and courtesy make a society work.
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"Asking government to fix this crisis is like asking the arsonist to put out the fire." -Thomas Sowell
Posts: 4510 | Location: Dubai | Registered: Dec 20, 2002
Purplehaze, I agree. Writing thank-you notes, eating with proper manners and saying 'please' and 'thank you' are all about showing respect and kindness. Unfortunately, I think many people of all ages in our society place a low value on considering others.
I will for farther and say that the generation to which I belong, Generation X, is doing a pretty horrifying job at parenting. There are many people who make sure their children have the best schools, clothing and opportunities but they also tend to slack on discipline and in making their kids understand they are part of the world, not the reason the world turns on its axis. It's very frustrating.
I can not imagine receiving a gift and not writing a proper thank-you note or bringing a hostess gift or making sure I say hello and speak to my cashier at the grocery store. People may laugh and call me stuffy but I don't care.
Posts: 1068 | Location: Chicago | Registered: Jun 22, 2005
Ditto to all. I grew up in the 60's in the south and have been horrified at the lack of manners. I was even told by a psychologist in Colorado that manners are just a 'southern thing.' How sad, maybe the south will rise again!
"We do not remember days, we remember moments."
Posts: 85 | Location: Colorado | Registered: May 11, 2006
Originally posted by Een: I will for farther and say that the generation to which I belong, Generation X, is doing a pretty horrifying job at parenting. There are many people who make sure their children have the best schools, clothing and opportunities but they also tend to slack on discipline and in making their kids understand they are part of the world, not the reason the world turns on its axis. It's very frustrating.
Boy, don't get me started on kids. Not only parents, but in many cases our schools are failing to remind children that they are just that, children.
And out of control kids with "out to lunch" parents in restaurants? Holy Cow!! We raised 2 daughters, and we dined out frequently from the time they were babies to the time they left the nest. When they were infants, if they got feisty to the point where other diners could be affected, one of us would get up and take the baby outside or away from the dining area until they settled down. Once they were ready to return, we'd rejoin the rest of the family. It never occurred to us to subject a room full of diners to our childrens' colic. Once they were old enough to listen and understand, they were invariably wonderful young diners.
quote:
Originally posted by Een: People may laugh and call me stuffy but I don't care.
Uh, but you do care, that's the point!
PH
Posts: 9625 | Location: Maryland, USA (DC suburbs) | Registered: Nov 22, 2003
Originally posted by PurpleHaze: And out of control kids with "out to lunch" parents in restaurants? Holy Cow!! We raised 2 daughters, and we dined out frequently from the time they were babies to the time they left the nest. When they were infants, if they got feisty to the point where other diners could be affected, one of us would get up and take the baby outside or away from the dining area until they settled down. Once they were ready to return, we'd rejoin the rest of the family. It never occurred to us to subject a room full of diners to our childrens' colic. Once they were old enough to listen and understand, they were invariably wonderful young diners.
Wow! You hit on one of my all time pet peeves! And not just in restaurants, but church, theaters, stores, playgrounds, school, etc. My kids learned early on that if they didn't behave in a restaurant, they'd have to eat their mother's cooking until they did.
*********** "I was thinking how nothing lasts. And what a shame that is." --Benjamin Button
Posts: 3717 | Location: Everett, WA | Registered: Mar 08, 2002
Originally posted by Een: I will for farther and say that the generation to which I belong, Generation X, is doing a pretty horrifying job at parenting.
een - that's quite a blanket statement you just made and i would strongly disagree with it. i am of that generation as well (born in 1969) and so are most of my friends with children - when we bring our 2 year old out with us to dinner, we only eat at restaurants that cater to serving to children (pizza, etc..) and we NEVER interrupt others' meals if our child has a meltdown ...maybe that's a chicago thing
Posts: 2542 | Location: Seattle, WA | Registered: Dec 31, 2002
Mattach, I agree that my statement was too general and I apologize. I do think there are good parents in our age group. I have friends with children who do a great job and I am thankful for it. However, I also think that in general parenting has become more indulgent of the child and his or her whims. I don't think it is just Chicago.
Posts: 1068 | Location: Chicago | Registered: Jun 22, 2005
mattach - Having met you, I'm confident that you are raising well mannered, considerate and socially adept offspring.
My work involves meeting whole famililes regularly and greeting everyone personally. I'm amazed, truly blown away at how few 15 year old young men and women can shake my hand, look me in the eye and give a proper greeting. It's just amazing...
PH
Posts: 9625 | Location: Maryland, USA (DC suburbs) | Registered: Nov 22, 2003
My work involves meeting whole famililes regularly and greeting everyone personally. I'm amazed, truly blown away at how few 15 year old young men and women can shake my hand, look me in the eye and give a proper greeting. It's just amazing...
PH
Oh, do NOT get me started!!!
I'm in the process of hiring 20+ interns for our company. You can not imagine...
One guy two weeks ago walked into my office and placed a BIG GULP on my desk and asked me "Whats up?" I had a girl last week answer her cell phone during my interview!
Now all that said, my "etiquette" was less than perfect when I was talking to the department head at the university that sent me these two.
Oh man, W+A. You gave me the laugh and cringe of the night.
I used to work in HR, specifically as a corporate recruiter. I can tell you that it is not just interns who have no clue. In one position, I hired PhDs. I remember clearly this one guy. I had to pry his BIG GULP out of his clammy paws. Sadly, the BG carrying was one of the least of his problems. I also had a woman bring her baby and ask if she could change him on my desk. I am not lying.
Hiring for a tech firm during the dot com boom was full of rude, rude folk with a huge sense of entitlement (I moved to a research/technical role soon after). I actually kept hand-written thank-yous as they were so rare. Believe me, I fought hard for anyone who showed they had manners and common consideration. You want people like that on your team.
Posts: 1068 | Location: Chicago | Registered: Jun 22, 2005
Originally posted by bez780: i did a bbq for two years with all the mich wineo's an some of them i just won't talk about!
!
Talk about etikqete. Cant stop here, name names, be helpful so others don't bring them michigan hooligans in thier homes. Or don't say anythign at all, it's not proper to bad mouth people's behinds behind their backs. Got it?
Originally posted by Een: I will for farther and say that the generation to which I belong, Generation X, is doing a pretty horrifying job at parenting. There are many people who make sure their children have the best schools, clothing and opportunities but they also tend to slack on discipline and in making their kids understand they are part of the world, not the reason the world turns on its axis. It's very frustrating.
Boy, don't get me started on kids. Not only parents, but in many cases our schools are failing to remind children that they are just that, children.
And out of control kids with "out to lunch" parents in restaurants? Holy Cow!! We raised 2 daughters, and we dined out frequently from the time they were babies to the time they left the nest. When they were infants, if they got feisty to the point where other diners could be affected, one of us would get up and take the baby outside or away from the dining area until they settled down. Once they were ready to return, we'd rejoin the rest of the family. It never occurred to us to subject a room full of diners to our childrens' colic. Once they were old enough to listen and understand, they were invariably wonderful young diners.
quote:
Originally posted by Een: People may laugh and call me stuffy but I don't care.
Uh, but you do care, that's the point!
PH
We also dined out frequently when my son and daughter were babies and they learned a social awareness early on. My son is now 25, my daughter 18, and it is a joy to watch them interact with others, whether at a formal affair or an afternoon BBQ. I do find that my children have also attracted friends similar to themselves, and it is immensely refreshing.
One thing about kids. I hate it when their parents will not tell them no. I also hate it when they (parents) want to be friends with their kids.
For people in general, I cannot stand it when people think they should not have to wait. I also hate it when people force others to wait unneccesarily by being inconsiderate.
I also wish. like someone else mentioned that people said "please" and "thank you" more often.
Holy Cow!! We raised 2 daughters, and we dined out frequently from the time they were babies to the time they left the nest. When they were infants, if they got feisty to the point where other diners could be affected, one of us would get up and take the baby outside or away from the dining area until they settled down. Once they were ready to return, we'd rejoin the rest of the family. It never occurred to us to subject a room full of diners to our childrens' colic. Once they were old enough to listen and understand, they were invariably wonderful young diners.
I had a girl last week answer her cell phone during my interview! 
