Well the red cars did even better at Monaco, but still not close to victory. At least they are now getting points.

Does anybody else feel this season is boring with the way Brawn seems to win at will? There is no drama to the races at all. Plus with everybody in the paddock having only good things to say about misters Brawn and Button it takes away from the whole vibe. The McLaren/Ferrari stuggles were interesting because you did not know who was going to win, but did know each side despised the other.

Well now we know why Max and Bernie are such pals. Click

And a great job they are doing too, notice the interest this year?

Bernie's quotes are not surprising, nor new. He's been living in his own (short) white male chauvanistic world for quite some time. This is the same guy who in 2005 said of Danika Patrick's 4th place finish at Indianapolis "She did a good job, didn't she? Super. Didn't think she'd be able to make it like that. You know, I've got one of these wonderful ideas that women should be all dressed in white like all the other domestic appliances."

He's old, has too much money, not enough time left on this planet and is out to lunch.

Did anyone watch the race? I thought it was pretty good. Not overly exciting, but nice to see Webber finally win a race. You knew Red Bull had the car when the fueled heavy and still put in better qualifying times than Brawn, Ferrari and McLaren.

And boy was Barrichello pissed after the race ! He is not impressed with the treatment he's been getting from the team lately. And after today's race/antics, I think he's 100% justified. Even though he raced under Brawn at Ferrari, there is no love lost in that relationship.

I think there will be a tonne of changes next year. Alonso to Ferrari; Kimi to McLaren...yes, McLaren; I think we'll see Vettel at Ferrari eventually. I heard a rumour Villeneuve will be coming back next year via one of the new F1 teams. Kubica wants out, and Heidfeld will be out for sure. Lots of changes coming.

Oh yeah...and good riddance to Sebastien Bourdais. I never liked him as a driver, even when he won championships in CART.

quote:

Originally posted by Mezzo Litro:
Did anyone watch the race? I thought it was pretty good. Not overly exciting, but nice to see Webber finally win a race.

And boy was Barrichello pissed after the race ! He is not impressed with the treatment he's been getting from the team lately. And after today's race/antics, I think he's 100% justified. Even though he raced under Brawn at Ferrari, there is no love lost in that relationship.

Mezzo, glad that you found it pretty good. I thought it was as big as yawn as usual with cars even less able to challenge each other than they used to under the old formula.

And Barrichello? Well I can understand his frustration but his bump with Webber was nothing to do with Brawn and they had given him a car that was good enough to challenge for pole and end up ahead of Button at the start of the race.

As far as the rest is concerned I can understand his frustration but he was definitely holding up Button before the last tire change [both their podium chances were blown by then] and Button was definitely going away from him after Rosberg until [both] their tires suddenly deteriorated and it became more a question of staying ahead of Alonso than catching Rosberg.

Unless you think the fuel rig problem was part of a conspiracy I am not sure what you mean by “today's race/antics” and “I think he's 100% justified”. Perhaps you are referring to his question [AFTER leaving the pits] about whether he was “now on a two stopper” as opposed to the pre-planned 3 stops but since both cars stopped 3 times I am not sure there are grounds for suspecting something devious there either.

I suspect it is just the natural desire to win and frustration following yet another excellent qualifying session but surely Webber would have had [perhaps lessened today] similar concerns about where Red Bull’s ultimate preferences lay – whereas the truth, for both teams, has been down to individual performances on the day AND the luck or misfortune that accompanies each.

As for the rest I couldn't care less but this year is a bigger joke than last and not even enough excitement to get the stewards significantly involved. Webber's penalty seemed reasonable in the circumstances [not that it made any difference ultimately] but Hamilton was definitely disadvantaged much more by an outcome from that incident than Webber was by his drive-through penalty.

Nigel, long time no chat. Yes, this year has been a bit of a let down. The only thing that's been making the season fun to watch is the F1 pool I'm involved in. Weekly and end of year prizes are awarded. I won this week

Do you think Button will win this year? Or can Vettel, Webber, Barrichello catch up? I'd like to see Vettel do a little better. He's young and a bit inconsistent, but I think both he and Webber have to thank Coulthard for all the help he gave over the last several years developing the car. I actually picked Kimi to win this year in my F1 pool. That's what you get when you make decisions with your heart and not your brain.

quote:

Originally posted by Mezzo Litro:
Nigel, long time no chat. Yes, this year has been a bit of a let down. The only thing that's been making the season fun to watch is the F1 pool I'm involved in. Weekly and end of year prizes are awarded. I won this week

Do you think Button will win this year? Or can Vettel, Webber, Barrichello catch up? I'd like to see Vettel do a little better. He's young and a bit inconsistent, but I think both he and Webber have to thank Coulthard for all the help he gave over the last several years developing the car. I actually picked Kimi to win this year in my F1 pool. That's what you get when you make decisions with your heart and not your brain.

Yes Mezzo, long time which is I think simply a reflection of how disillusioned many feel by the state of F1 generally. And frankly I am yet to see the evidence that the new formula has produced cars that give drivers a better chance of racing each other.

Sure it has thrown the previous hierarchy into the air and the chips have fallen in very different places which has given [other] very good drivers a chance to show they can drive too BUT the cars are still prevailing to [I think] an even greater extent than they did before.

Of course the failures like Ferrari and the even bigger failure McLaren are gradually coming back into the race but, yes, it is logical to think the overall winner will be a Red Bull or Brawn driver.

Which one I don't know but believe it will between Button and Webber although luck could easily place Vettel or Barrichello in line.

If Brawn's currently diminished form is really a function of tires or, more precisely tire temperatures, then the remaining races would seem to favour them in that respect [except Spa possibly] although Red Bull seems to have a speed advantage.

Things could change quite quickly as they already have BUT I am having real difficulty in becoming excited by what's going on.

Folks, the rogue in me finds it satisfying to see Williams outpacing and out-pointing BMW after the latter pulled out from their alliance 3 years ago. I think Williams made some bad driver choices in Schumacher Jnr and Montoya in those years since they clearly had a superior car.

My other observation is that I think this years F1 is in fact becoming quite interesting (sorry to disagree with you Nigel). Brawn and Red Bull heve been competing well even though we have seen teams finishing 1 & 2 on several occasions.

The KERS experiment seems to have put the 3 main protagonists at a disadvantage rather than advantage though I think another seasons usage would fix this for them.

I also note that one or two teams are showing race pace close to Brawn and Red Bull so if they can get their cars to work better in Quali we'd see some new drivers on the podium.

Frankly I think the worst of this year is "mad" Max's constant desire to change things and flex his muscles under the guise of the FIA. I really do hope he goes this year! Frankly I can't see how the need to cost cut is commensurate with constant rule changes and the development that must ensue. The only think we have lost is testing time costs, which is probably why Renault, Ferrari and McLaren are taking so long to fix their aerodynamics.

quote:

Originally posted by ilb013:
My other observation is that I think this years F1 is in fact becoming quite interesting (sorry to disagree with you Nigel). Brawn and Red Bull heve been competing well even though we have seen teams finishing 1 & 2 on several occasions.

Disagreement is fine. We just clearly have a very different view of what is interesting in motor racing. I just don't see any real racing even between Red Bull and Brawn with one or the other having the upper hand [Red Bull recently] and neither having the ability to set about each other in the race with overtaking playing a significant role.

quote:

Originally posted by ilb013:
I also note that one or two teams are showing race pace close to Brawn and Red Bull so if they can get their cars to work better in Quali we'd see some new drivers on the podium.

Well we saw one on Sunday with Ferrari and the McLaren certainly performed better but I wonder whether it is going to make much difference to the racing aspect other than having a longer queue.

quote:

Originally posted by ilb013:Frankly I think the worst of this year is "mad" Max's constant desire to change things and flex his muscles under the guise of the FIA. I really do hope he goes this year!

No argument there.

Bourdais has, unofficially, lost his seat. He may be replaced by the 19-year old Spaniard, Jaime Alguersuari.

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Groundwater:If Brawn's currently diminished form is really a function of tires or, more precisely tire temperatures, then the remaining races would seem to favour them in that respect [except Spa possibly] although Red Bull seems to have a speed advantage.

There's some speculation Brawn will drop off the rest of the season. Or really, not be able to keep up with the other teams' developments. They just don't have the resources of the big budget teams.

quote:

Originally posted by yhn:

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Groundwater:If Brawn's currently diminished form is really a function of tires or, more precisely tire temperatures, then the remaining races would seem to favour them in that respect [except Spa possibly] although Red Bull seems to have a speed advantage.

There's some speculation Brawn will drop off the rest of the season. Or really, not be able to keep up with the other teams' developments. They just don't have the resources of the big budget teams.

Of course that must be a possibility but the question about this year will be 'can the others get ahead fast enough'? Supposedly big spending ability is less effective this year due to the rule changes. We will see.

Tires or more precisely how different cars have performed with the tires seems to have been even more important than usual with temperatures [allegedly] being a significant differential factor for the Brawn.

In addition the Brawn was [allegedly] easier on its tires [Button's driving style a possible additional contribution] than other cars which made the sudden deterioration as Button closed on Rosberg on Sunday, somewhat odd.

However my main complaint is in the lack of sustained racing and the ability of more closely matched cars to get past - wasn't that something the new rules were supposed to enhance?
The last [single] significant excitement I can recall was when Button harried Vettel into a mistake to get past some races ago and even then the Brawn was the superior race day vehicle on that occasion - just as the Red Bull has been for the last races.

Massa's head injury today brings back memories of Senna. I hope he pulls through without any permanent damage to his head/brain. And RIP Henry Surtees who died last week at Brands Hatch. That was a real freak accident. Not sure what more can be done to protect drivers' heads. The sport is inherently dangerous. They all know the risks going in.

Hope he makes it to a full recovery.

Not sure there's much that could be done to protect against such a fluke. Something larger would have been deflected, less dense wouldn't have done the damage. The spring was also airborne, just an unusual circumstance. How it came off the Brawn is the question. Reminds me a bit of Da Matta hitting the deer at Road America.

Resurgence of McLaren and Ferrari? Hungaroring is always difficult but both teams showed real race pace over Red Bull and Brawn.

Hamilton showed he is a great racer with a reasonable car!

Who will Ferrari use to replace Massa? Hope Filipe recovers soon.

I can't be that happy with Ferrari's best result of the year what with Massa in a coma.

quote:

Originally posted by Vt2It:
I can't be that happy with Ferrari's best result of the year what with Massa in a coma.

I believe the coma is induced, which is pretty standard procedure to prevent further damage. Of particular concern is I heard he had a basal skull fracture. That probably means the HANS devise saved his life.

Best wishes to Massa. Sad accident, but luckily no death

On another note, Renault is banned from Euor GP for frt rt tire issue.

BYE BYE BMW

Between Bernie, Mad Max and the economy, I'm sorry to say that F1 will never be the same. It will struggle on, but the glory days are in the past.

BMW has a chequered history for being in and out of F1 within a couple of years. Remember the short-lived BMW powered Parmalat Brabham of the late 70s?

Bet you Frank Williams has a smirk on his face this evening!

quote:

Originally posted by FL Wino:
BYE BYE BMW

As one "German" departs, one returns. Hello Michael Schumacher! Bet there are some young guns revelling in this challenge (Mr Vettel and Mr Hamilton)!

He's baaaa-aaaaack !!!

There will be 3 former and 1 current world champions racing in Valencia. This reminds me of the early Schumacher days (Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen & Schumi all in the same race).

He's not gonna win the driver's championship, but he's gonna take away points from Button, Vettel and Webber. If the car proves reliable, he's gonna make things exciting....again.

He has entered a training regimen, with the intent of racing at Valencia and on, until Massa returns. But the final decision will not be made until he's sure he's ready, so there's a small chance he won't.