quote:

Right now almost all of your Tax money is going to fight 2 wars.

What a joke. Do a little bit of research yourself, a little education really ISN'T a bad thing. The amount spent on the "War on terrorism" (a joke if there ever was one) would barely cover 1/3 of the DEFICIT in this fiscal year. Try again.

quote:

Originally posted by GlennK:

quote:

Originally posted by indybob:
There do exist good people in the US who go on to make positive contributions, if given a boost up in times of need. One person who becomes better, helps us all.

Indy, in a perfect world, I would agree that it would be nice to live in a society that we can help someone out in a “real” time of need. But in my experience, it’s only 1 out of the 10 with their hand out that really deserve some help. The rest are just looking for a free ride.

Glenn,

You look at the glass half empty my friend. Not sure where your 1 in 10 figure comes from, but I spend time with poor folks (I used to be one) regularly, and because I don't live in an ivory tower, I see so much good among all people. When did the wealthy own the right to honesty and integrity?

Indy, I hate to say this but you folks on the left have such an unhealthy, paternalistic view of the poor that it is downright creepy. I believe we are all called to care for those who cannot help themselves and I try my best to do so and I have taught my children to do so. The govenment cannot and should not, because everything gets politicized in the end and the people once a reason for a cause become nothing but mascots. Leave charity to the churches and philanthropic organizations and the multitude of individuals who do good deeds. The government has proven itself unable to perform these acts with the honesty and love they should be carried out with and most importantly, they are unsuccessful.

cdr,

Creepy? C'mon now. I agree that charity is most honest when done on an individual level. Would you extend that obligation to charity solely to churches/philanthropic organizations/private citizens in the case of natural disasters, like Katrina, or TS Fay?

quote:

Originally posted by sydthesquid:

quote:

Originally posted by GlennK:

quote:

Originally posted by indybob:
There do exist good people in the US who go on to make positive contributions, if given a boost up in times of need. One person who becomes better, helps us all.

Indy, in a perfect world, I would agree that it would be nice to live in a society that we can help someone out in a “real” time of need. But in my experience, it’s only 1 out of the 10 with their hand out that really deserve some help. The rest are just looking for a free ride.

Could you define that experience?

Sure. Long story short, I have basically lived in 2 extremes in my 31 years. I grew up in a pretty poor neighborhood and my high school was full of gangs and drug dealers. I had a lot of friends on welfare growing up and I got to see firsthand how they lived and what their home life was like. Most only had a single mom at home and while some of them actually tried to better themselves, most were just worried about getting their check so they could get their hair done. My best friend in jr. high had 3 brothers from 3 different dads. He lived in a dirty 2 bd apartment with his 3 brothers and his mom that didn’t work, but my friend always had new clothes and a sparkling pair of air jordan’s. This was a hard thing for me to reconcile as a 12 year old because I had the same old clothes and shoes from the year before, but my dad and mom were working their asses off. By the time high school hit being “ghetto” was cool, this is early 90’s so snoop dogg and bone thugs were gods in my area. Kids would joke in school about their mom getting “paid” on the first and going shopping…..and the cycle continues.

The truly sad part is the kids. The only true difference between me and my friends growing up was I had parents that cared enough to be tough with me and kept me on a straight line in that environment. Growing up watching my dad work his butt off job to job gave me an appreciation for what I have today that I wouldn’t give up for anything.

So IMO, the hand out is not helping people out, it’s keeping them exactly where they are...

Glenn,

Good story, and it sounds a lot like mine, plus a parent and about eight years. We were pretty glad for food stamps, and peanut butter in big silver tins, as it let us have a bit of extra cash for better daycare and little league and such. No, the system isn't perfect, but not every recipient of government "handouts" is a burden on our society, just remember that.

(run on sentence alert!): Like his politics or not, don't you think the thought of a minority president, arguably the most powerful person in the world, will give hope to some kids, even if misguided to believe that skin color defines a man/woman, who might not have had it before?

I don’t think it’s a good reason to make someone your president, but I absolutely agree he is a great roll model for all kids. He has earned everything he has achieved in life through hard work and that is a lesson all kids should be reminded of.

And I never said the word “burden”. Don’t lump me in with the rest. I don’t look at this issue from the burden standpoint. My point is that throwing more money at this issue is not a long term solution. There is not enough motivation to better oneself when you know you can just have another kid and the check is only going to get bigger (obviously an extreme example). We need job programs, stricter time deadlines for aid, etc. It my get uglier at first, but it’s the only way towards a long term solution.

Going to sleep now in my ivory tower…

quote:

Originally posted by indybob:
cdr,

Creepy? C'mon now. I agree that charity is most honest when done on an individual level. Would you extend that obligation to charity solely to churches/philanthropic organizations/private citizens in the case of natural disasters, like Katrina, or TS Fay?

Those victims should feel confident that they can collect funds from their $200 per anum National Flood Insurance policy

quote:

Originally posted by GlennK:
I don’t think it’s a good reason to make someone your president, but I absolutely agree he is a great roll model for all kids. He has earned everything he has achieved in life through hard work and that is a lesson all kids should be reminded of.

And I never said the word “burden”. Don’t lump me in with the rest. I don’t look at this issue from the burden standpoint. My point is that throwing more money at this issue is not a long term solution. There is not enough motivation to better oneself when you know you can just have another kid and the check is only going to get bigger (obviously an extreme example). We need job programs, stricter time deadlines for aid, etc. It my get uglier at first, but it’s the only way towards a long term solution.

Going to sleep now in my ivory tower…

Yes, hard work is key, I'll admit. One thing that Obama has always preached is that people have to take personal responsibility for their outcomes and destinies. Belt tightening, consuming less, hard work, becoming better citizens are things that any conservative responds favorably to. I think we'll see these themes talked about on Thursday.

Welfare-

-The vast majority of people on Welfare are white.
-A higher percentage of blacks are on Welfare than whites.
-But, among those who qualify, a much higher percentage of whites are on Welfare than blacks.
(Also, among those who qualify, a vastly greater number of urban people are on it than rural.)

katrina, Fay?

No, I would have expected the state governments to have spent local tax dollars prudently to have adequate infrastructure and to have plans on how to react to emergencies. Wal Mart stores were among the first to get aid to people in Katrina.

Rather than build adequate infrastructure over the decades, Louisiana chose to spend the money on welfare programs, a poor quality school system and other lower priority items. When the $hit hit the fan, the Louisiana and N.O. governments were as dependent and helpless as their citizens who stayed behind, unable to meet their responsibilities and they blamed President Bush.

Churches and philanthropic organizations did the bulk of the relief work anyway - Red Cross, United Way, Churches from all over the country as well as volunteers from all over the United States. I am sure almost everyone on these boards has probably donated time or money multiple times for Katrina relief. It disgusts me that people are still complaining and asking for more almost 3 years later. That's what we get for permitting or expecting government to handle our most basic responsibilities - clothing, feeding, educating and caring for ourselves. If government had stayed narrow in its focus and served the needs of all citizens, perhaps the levees would have been state of the art and an effective evacuation plan could have been perfected over the last several decades. Instead, these "doo goody goods" and moral busybodies saw themselves fit to decide that maybe the levees could wait - that they needed to smother the citizens with "love" and do for them with other peoples' money, knowing they would never suffer the consequences for their actions.

Government does not work, Indy. Sorry, but that is the way I see it.

quote:

Originally posted by GlennK:
3 brothers from 3 different dads. He lived in a dirty 2 bd apartment with his 3 brothers and his mom that didn’t work, but my friend always had new clothes and a sparkling pair of air jordan’s. Kids would joke in school about their mom getting “paid” on the first and going shopping...

I live this scenario every day.....

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Originally posted by Dom'n'Vin'sDad:

quote:

Originally posted by GlennK:
3 brothers from 3 different dads. He lived in a dirty 2 bd apartment with his 3 brothers and his mom that didn’t work, but my friend always had new clothes and a sparkling pair of air jordan’s. Kids would joke in school about their mom getting “paid” on the first and going shopping...

I live this scenario every day.....

That’s tough man. I feel bad for the kids. People should have to pass a test before being allowed to have kids…

Who will give that test?

quote:

Originally posted by indybob:
Who will give that test?

C'mon, Indy. I think Glenn has posted enough on this subject that you'd know not to take that exasperation statement literally.

indy, when is the junior senator from NY going to speak?

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Originally posted by wine+art:
indy, when is the junior senator from NY going to speak?

Three minutes ago.

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Originally posted by indybob:

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Originally posted by wine+art:
indy, when is the junior senator from NY going to speak?

Three minutes ago.

What!

They have kept the speeches short and sweet. Since the "other thread" got taken down, I won't give an opinion, , but it should be on youtube later on (worth watching).

Not worth watching

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Originally posted by Board-O:
Not worth watching

Did you watch it?

Unfortunately. Not worth watching.

quote:

Originally posted by indybob:
They have kept the speeches short and sweet. Since the "other thread" got taken down, I won't give an opinion, , but it should be on youtube later on (worth watching).

Does she now think Obama is ready to lead, and will let him answer the phone at 3 am?

michelle is HOT...

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:
Unfortunately. Not worth watching.

Thought it was interesting that the junior Senator from New York opened her speech tonight with:

"I am a proud Mother. I am a proud Democrat. I am a proud Senator from the state of New York. I am a proud American. And I am a proud supporter of Barrack Obama for President of the United States." AMF, Bill.

Although I am not a fan of Hellary, she gave a good speech.

On national healthcare, why can't they just have pool insurance for those who are not covered like they do for automobiles and not mess with the plans of the approximately 70% who already have coverage. The insurance companies and HMOs would then all share the same risk. Hopefully it would cover preventive maintence items.

Can't remember the gentleman's name, but liked the Governor of Massachusetts speech the best.