Originally posted by wine+art: GlennK, what I find so terribly insulting is the BS stories these agents come up with for their clients.
Let me understand. Your M.D. knows you are a professional ballplayer, writes you a prescription or injects you with ANYTHING and does not advise you to check first, or already has knowledge this is a banned drug.
Even people from Minneapolis are smarted than that.
I agree, especially someone like Boras who should be all over this. What doesn’t add up is him reportedly passing 15+ tests but fails this one? Why now? He must be guilty though, otherwise he would be fighting this and bringing that doctor out to testify to the reasons why he had to take the drugs. If not for his teammates, you would think he would try to fight for the $7M is salary he is losing.
The only person happy in LA right now is Juan Pierre…
Posts: 2191 | Location: OC, CA (Currently in London) | Registered: Aug 01, 2007
Ahhh....a nice cup of coffee, the sun is shining, birds are singing, Manny's suspended and the Yankee's are free falling. They can't seem to win a home run derby in that little league park of theirs. What a great start to the day.
Originally posted by Icewino: Ahhh....a nice cup of coffee, the sun is shining, birds are singing, Manny's suspended and the Yankee's are free falling. They can't seem to win a home run derby in that little league park of theirs. What a great start to the day.
And you haven't made any pact with a person named Lucifer?
A-rod, please help us!
Posts: 1439 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: Aug 05, 2007
Originally posted by Icewino: Right, coming on and attacking other board members and calling names is definitely acting like an adult. You may not like the way I decided to express my unbridled joy that this guy finally got what he's had coming to him for a long time but at least I contributed to the topic at hand. I couldn't find another way to express the fact that I was laughing out loud when I heard the news. I suppose a boring LOL might have pleased the "adults" like yourself more. What a fun life you must live.
As for who owes who what he owes the fans for putting up with his s**t and loving him no matter what. Most of them could care less what a skunk he was as long as he hit. Schilling, Martinez and Lowe were what really got the job done in '04. Not to diminish his .308 2hr and 11rbi's in the post season that year but there was plenty of offense without him. Really it was last year we could have used him for a third push at a ring but he shot his way out of town.
If anyone's interested in what an ass this guy was and why Sox fans hate him even though he was a big piece of the championships here's an article on it. Clicky
If you really believe they would have won in 2004 without Manny, you do not know anything about baseball. He protected Big Pappi and was the key to their success. You also assume that Pedro, Damon, Kurt, Millar et al. were not on the juice. Given many of their suspicious spikes in performance followed by physicial breakdowns and plummeting stats once the testing era started, make them all shady looking. Just a fact. Oh and why they were not named in the Mitchell report authored by a minority owner/affiliate of the Red Sox, I wonder.
Posts: 2686 | Location: South Florida | Registered: Dec 30, 2002
Originally posted by Icewino: Umm...so if a doctor prescribes it and the MLB doctors review your use of it and allow you to "legally" use it even though it's on the banned substance list then it's not a "zero" tolerance policy. Zero tolerance means none, no exceptions, if you have the subsatnce that is banned in you for any reason you are in violation. MLB makes exceptions for some people even though the substances are banned. Ritalin, an amphetamine, is banned, unless you get the prescription approved and then it's allowed, plus a few other exceptions.
Is there a lawyer in the house? Here's the exact wording in the policy Kumazam. Feel free to admit you're wrong any time.
Therapeutic Use Exemption 1. A Player authorized to ingest a Prohibited Substance through a valid, medically appropriate prescription provided by a duly licensed physician shall receive a Therapeutic Use Exemption (“TUE”). To be “medically appropriate,” the Player must have a documented medical need under the standards accepted in the United States or Canada for the prescription in the prescribed dosage. A urine sample which is found to contain a Prohibited Substance will not be deemed a positive test result if such sample was provided by a Player with an effective TUE for that substance. A Player with a TUE for a Prohibited Substance does not violate the Program by possessing or using that substance.
thanks for posting, im aware of the wording and the other 2 sections regarding the TUE under the program
...and that’s correct, a true zero tolerance policy means no exceptions... my notion of the policy was in reference to your comment that if a doctor prescribes it for a legit reason it’s OK and that is simply not true. My point is that the prescription can be legally (and ethically I guess if you want to go there) prescribed by a doctor for legitimate reasons, but the league can still deny, i.e., the league determines legitamcy and not a doctor.
Originally posted by Jcocktosten: If you really believe they would have won in 2004 without Manny, you do not know anything about baseball. He protected Big Pappi and was the key to their success. You also assume that Pedro, Damon, Kurt, Millar et al. were not on the juice. Given many of their suspicious spikes in performance followed by physicial breakdowns and plummeting stats once the testing era started, make them all shady looking. Just a fact. Oh and why they were not named in the Mitchell report authored by a minority owner/affiliate of the Red Sox, I wonder.
dont forget Nomar...
was at the game last night... mojo was actually OK. Pierre got a nice ovation from the crowd when announced, and the bats came alive early but died out until the fight at the end. with or without Manny, the achilles heal continues to be the pen...
i havent decided how i feel about the whole thing besides the fact im bummed... will obviously still continue to root for the team, but will be interesting here in LA come July.
Originally posted by kumazam: i havent decided how i feel about the whole thing besides the fact im bummed... will obviously still continue to root for the team, but will be interesting here in LA come July.
I’m right there with you. I don’t think I have passed the shocked stage yet. Even without Manny, it’s still a pretty exciting team.
Posts: 2191 | Location: OC, CA (Currently in London) | Registered: Aug 01, 2007
You also assume that Pedro, Damon, Kurt, Millar et al. were not on the juice. Given many of their suspicious spikes in performance followed by physicial breakdowns and plummeting stats once the testing era started, make them all shady looking
I don't assume that. In fact just the opposite if you had read anything I've posted about the steroid topic. I don't assume they were clean, in fact I think at least Damon, Nixon, Manny, Ortiz, Millar, Mirabelli and Nomar were all on the stuff. I also think most of the players in the league at that time were on stuff so it was a level playing field. I'm pretty sure the Yankee's team was loaded with juicers in 2003, the year they knocked the sox out in the ALCS.
And if you think Manny was the reason they won the world series you didn't watch the Red Sox much that year. The pitching gave up 11, 2, 1 and 0 runs in the four games of the WS. They would have won three of those even if Ortiz and Ramirez had sat them out.
Ortiz has tried that excuse to explain his lack of production since Manny left, even though the new guys behind him (Youkilis and Bay) are white hot all year. People are pitching to him, he just can't catch up to an 89 mph fast ball any more and only has warning track power. That mustt be because of Manny's departure
...and that’s correct, a true zero tolerance policy means no exceptions... my notion of the policy was in reference to your comment that if a doctor prescribes it for a legit reason it’s OK and that is simply not true. My point is that the prescription can be legally (and ethically I guess if you want to go there) prescribed by a doctor for legitimate reasons, but the league can still deny, i.e., the league determines legitamcy and not a doctor.
Who are you Bill Clinton. It depends what the meaning of the word "is" is? So you saying they call it zero tolerance for a reason didn't really mean they call it zero tolerance for a reason?
I didn't think any quack doctor could just prescibe something and it was automatically valid. I guess I should have said for a medical reason that the league approves of but I thought that was inferred with "legit".
You also assume that Pedro, Damon, Kurt, Millar et al. were not on the juice. Given many of their suspicious spikes in performance followed by physicial breakdowns and plummeting stats once the testing era started, make them all shady looking
I don't assume that. In fact just the opposite if you had read anything I've posted about the steroid topic. I don't assume they were clean, in fact I think at least Damon, Nixon, Manny, Ortiz, Millar, Mirabelli and Nomar were all on the stuff. I also think most of the players in the league at that time were on stuff so it was a level playing field. I'm pretty sure the Yankee's team was loaded with juicers in 2003, the year they knocked the sox out in the ALCS.
And if you think Manny was the reason they won the world series you didn't watch the Red Sox much that year. The pitching gave up 11, 2, 1 and 0 runs in the four games of the WS. They would have won three of those even if Ortiz and Ramirez had sat them out.
Ortiz has tried that excuse to explain his lack of production since Manny left, even though the new guys behind him (Youkilis and Bay) are white hot all year. People are pitching to him, he just can't catch up to an 89 mph fast ball any more and only has warning track power. That mustt be because of Manny's departure
Whatever you say - done wasting time with this discussion - I will just attempt to ignore your posts in the future.
Posts: 2686 | Location: South Florida | Registered: Dec 30, 2002
Originally posted by Icewino: That's probably your best idea yet since you cannot put together a coherent response.
Having met JC in person, I can assure you that he is quite coherent.
Ah another person who cannot read the english langueage. I never said he wasn't. He may be the most coherent member on the board for all I know, but his point on the zero tolerance policy is not.
Originally posted by Icewino: That's probably your best idea yet since you cannot put together a coherent response.
Having met JC in person, I can assure you that he is quite coherent.
Ah another person who cannot read the english langueage. I never said he wasn't. He may be the most coherent member on the board for all I know, but his point on the zero tolerance policy is not.
Or are YOU going to define "is" for us now? What a tool...
Posts: 1764 | Location: San Diego, CA | Registered: Nov 19, 2005
Originally posted by Dunder: Not to mention that in looking at Griffey's build through the years, if he was taking steroids he was getting ripped off. But your point stands, fans have reason to be suspicious of pretty much anyone.
Don't get caught up in a person's "build" when discussing steroids. There are plenty out there that will not turn you into a hulk. There are strength building roids, as well as muscle mass enhancement roids....
Romeo and Juliet are together in eternity....
Posts: 6132 | Location: Elk Grove, CA, USA | Registered: Dec 06, 2003
Originally posted by Dunder: Not to mention that in looking at Griffey's build through the years, if he was taking steroids he was getting ripped off. But your point stands, fans have reason to be suspicious of pretty much anyone.
Don't get caught up in a person's "build" when discussing steroids. There are plenty out there that will not turn you into a hulk. There are strength building roids, as well as muscle mass enhancement roids....
Just look at Johnny Damon, who is apparently juicing up in another contract year like he did in 2004 with the Sox. Goes from scrap heap to 9 homers already, and they're not all in the Williamsport PA replica stadium. He's 6'2" feet and 200 pounds, pretty skinny. I hope he times his cycles right, I always liked him more than Manny.
By comparison Ortiz is listed at 6'4" 230 (more like 260 at least) and a pretty bulky guy but without whatever he was on can't hit a ball out of any park.
On a happier Sox note they're bringing up Baird, their latest young fireballer, and designating Javier Lopez for assignment. Thank God.
Originally posted by Icewino: Umm...so if a doctor prescribes it and the MLB doctors review your use of it and allow you to "legally" use it even though it's on the banned substance list then it's not a "zero" tolerance policy. Zero tolerance means none, no exceptions, if you have the subsatnce that is banned in you for any reason you are in violation. MLB makes exceptions for some people even though the substances are banned. Ritalin, an amphetamine, is banned, unless you get the prescription approved and then it's allowed, plus a few other exceptions.
Is there a lawyer in the house? Here's the exact wording in the policy Kumazam. Feel free to admit you're wrong any time.
Therapeutic Use Exemption 1. A Player authorized to ingest a Prohibited Substance through a valid, medically appropriate prescription provided by a duly licensed physician shall receive a Therapeutic Use Exemption (“TUE”). To be “medically appropriate,” the Player must have a documented medical need under the standards accepted in the United States or Canada for the prescription in the prescribed dosage. A urine sample which is found to contain a Prohibited Substance will not be deemed a positive test result if such sample was provided by a Player with an effective TUE for that substance. A Player with a TUE for a Prohibited Substance does not violate the Program by possessing or using that substance.
Having read the policy over and conferred with several professional legal colleagues, we have come to the inevitable conclusion that Boston and their fans suck.
Posts: 1837 | Location: Anaheim Hills, CA | Registered: Nov 18, 2007
Originally posted by Sticky2: Having read the policy over and conferred with several professional legal colleagues, we have come to the inevitable conclusion that Boston and their fans suck.
I concur.
Posts: 1439 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: Aug 05, 2007
