Originally posted by Sticky2: It makes the most sense to simply go with the country of the parent company.
OK, then Jaguar/Land Rover went from being a US car builder to an Indian one, and Chrysler was a German carmaker, now an Italian one.
Well not exactly, as Jaguars and Land Rovers are not built and designed by Tata in India.
Clearly lines are blurring a bit, but still fairly simple. Jaguar and Land Rover would be considered English, just as Rolls Royce would be considered English and not German.
The BMW X5 is not an American car despite the Carolina production. The same for the Z4, these are German designed vehicles with assembly in the United States.
Chrysler would still be considered American, despite the Fiat cash infusion.
Then I guess you didn't mean what you originally said.
"Wine is bottled poetry." - Robert Louis Stevenson
Originally posted by Sticky2: I understand that Saab and Volvo make cars that are more readily accessibly and are practical. However, from the way you wrote your statement, you were making a point that Sweden should be included and has influence based on sales numbes.
Ferrari alone wields more influence and commands more attention than the entire motoring industry of Sweden. They don't need to sell the same numbers so not surprising to see Italy mentioned. The English as well have more impact so not surprising to see them in the poll either. Plus, wine guys tend to enjoy the finer things, so Italian cars definitely are more intruiging than the Swedes. That is not to say Volvo and Saab should be not represented, they should.
The question was simply "where is your car from", not "which country or carmaker has the most influence".
"Wine is bottled poetry." - Robert Louis Stevenson
Originally posted by Sticky2: I understand that Saab and Volvo make cars that are more readily accessibly and are practical. However, from the way you wrote your statement, you were making a point that Sweden should be included and has influence based on sales numbes.
Ferrari alone wields more influence and commands more attention than the entire motoring industry of Sweden. They don't need to sell the same numbers so not surprising to see Italy mentioned. The English as well have more impact so not surprising to see them in the poll either. Plus, wine guys tend to enjoy the finer things, so Italian cars definitely are more intruiging than the Swedes. That is not to say Volvo and Saab should be not represented, they should.
The question was simply "where is your car from", not "which country or carmaker has the most influence".
No kidding, so it should be simple to understand why a spot is given in the poll for Italy and England due to their influence instead of Sweden which is pretty much dismissed in the automotive world. Get it?
Posts: 1840 | Location: Anaheim Hills, CA | Registered: Nov 18, 2007
Originally posted by Sticky2: It makes the most sense to simply go with the country of the parent company.
OK, then Jaguar/Land Rover went from being a US car builder to an Indian one, and Chrysler was a German carmaker, now an Italian one.
Well not exactly, as Jaguars and Land Rovers are not built and designed by Tata in India.
Clearly lines are blurring a bit, but still fairly simple. Jaguar and Land Rover would be considered English, just as Rolls Royce would be considered English and not German.
The BMW X5 is not an American car despite the Carolina production. The same for the Z4, these are German designed vehicles with assembly in the United States.
Chrysler would still be considered American, despite the Fiat cash infusion.
Then I guess you didn't mean what you originally said.
I thought it was pretty simple but I'll be more specific for those struggling. The parent company of the automobile being manufactured (the brand) not of the automotive group. As in for the X5 built in America, BMW - Germany. For a Rolls Royce, that would be English and Rolls Royce even though BMW - Germany owns the brand, a Rolls is not a German car.
I can see how it is confusing for those that do not have much experience with the automotive industry, hope this is more clear.
Posts: 1840 | Location: Anaheim Hills, CA | Registered: Nov 18, 2007
Originally posted by Sticky2: I understand that Saab and Volvo make cars that are more readily accessibly and are practical. However, from the way you wrote your statement, you were making a point that Sweden should be included and has influence based on sales numbes.
Ferrari alone wields more influence and commands more attention than the entire motoring industry of Sweden. They don't need to sell the same numbers so not surprising to see Italy mentioned. The English as well have more impact so not surprising to see them in the poll either. Plus, wine guys tend to enjoy the finer things, so Italian cars definitely are more intruiging than the Swedes. That is not to say Volvo and Saab should be not represented, they should.
The question was simply "where is your car from", not "which country or carmaker has the most influence".
No kidding, so it should be simple to understand why a spot is given in the poll for Italy and England due to their influence instead of Sweden which is pretty much dismissed in the automotive world. Get it?
Originally posted by Sticky2: I thought it was pretty simple but I'll be more specific for those struggling. The parent company of the automobile being manufactured (the brand) not of the automotive group. As in for the X5 built in America, BMW - Germany. For a Rolls Royce, that would be English and Rolls Royce even though BMW - Germany owns the brand, a Rolls is not a German car.
I can see how it is confusing for those that do not have much experience with the automotive industry, hope this is more clear.
I'm not the one struggling, you are. First, you said it should be based on the country of the parent company. When I pointed out how that would work in a few cases, you changed it to where the cars are designed. Now you're saying it's the parent company of the automobile being manufactured (the brand) not of the automotive group. I've grown tired of this pointless debate as there is no black and white answer to where a car is from these days as it has become so blurred, which is all I pointing out all along.
"Wine is bottled poetry." - Robert Louis Stevenson
Originally posted by Sticky2: I understand that Saab and Volvo make cars that are more readily accessibly and are practical. However, from the way you wrote your statement, you were making a point that Sweden should be included and has influence based on sales numbes.
Ferrari alone wields more influence and commands more attention than the entire motoring industry of Sweden. They don't need to sell the same numbers so not surprising to see Italy mentioned. The English as well have more impact so not surprising to see them in the poll either. Plus, wine guys tend to enjoy the finer things, so Italian cars definitely are more intruiging than the Swedes. That is not to say Volvo and Saab should be not represented, they should.
The question was simply "where is your car from", not "which country or carmaker has the most influence".
No kidding, so it should be simple to understand why a spot is given in the poll for Italy and England due to their influence instead of Sweden which is pretty much dismissed in the automotive world. Get it?
I don't get this obsession you have with not including Sweden in a poll that simply asks what people drive. You keep saying that Sweden has no "influence" and doesn't deserve to be in the poll. Well the fact is more Americans buy Swedish cars than those from England or Italy, and this poll is only to see what country people's cars are from, so why shouldn't it be in the poll?. The original poster had no issue with it. Why don't you start a new poll asking what country's cars have the most influence? You can continue to bash Swedish cars there too. This thread has been able to establish four things:
1) you obviously hate Swedish cars 2) you are a snob 3) you interpret questions and responses in a way that's inconsistent with what they actually say 4) what you've written makes you look like an ass
This message has been edited. Last edited by: vinole,
"Wine is bottled poetry." - Robert Louis Stevenson
I believe you have an issue with reading comprehension. Go back to the beginning and pay attention this time. What I wrote was that Sweden should be represnted but is not due to a software limitation. Find me evidence where I said I hate Swedish cars? Does not exist, does it?
Now, I am quite the automotive enthusiast and enjoy all cars and have respect for cars produced there such as koeniggsegg.
You don't seem to be able to grasp that in a poll limited by choices sweden will not get a slot as all the other countries included are more readily associated with automobiles. Call me an ass, but it is simply the way it is, get used to it.
Posts: 1840 | Location: Anaheim Hills, CA | Registered: Nov 18, 2007
Originally posted by Sticky2: I understand that Saab and Volvo make cars that are more readily accessibly and are practical. However, from the way you wrote your statement, you were making a point that Sweden should be included and has influence based on sales numbes.
Ferrari alone wields more influence and commands more attention than the entire motoring industry of Sweden. They don't need to sell the same numbers so not surprising to see Italy mentioned. The English as well have more impact so not surprising to see them in the poll either. Plus, wine guys tend to enjoy the finer things, so Italian cars definitely are more intruiging than the Swedes. That is not to say Volvo and Saab should be not represented, they should.
The question was simply "where is your car from", not "which country or carmaker has the most influence".
No kidding, so it should be simple to understand why a spot is given in the poll for Italy and England due to their influence instead of Sweden which is pretty much dismissed in the automotive world. Get it?
Well, I don't.
Obviously you don't know your cars and have trouble with grasping basic logic.
Yep, the automotive press goes crazy every time a new model from Saab is announced, and those new Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, and Bugatti's are ignored and the average person never has heard of them. It is a shocker Sweden was omitted, no wonder you don't get it
Posts: 1840 | Location: Anaheim Hills, CA | Registered: Nov 18, 2007
Originally posted by vinole: That wasn't the question. You seem to have a lot of trouble focusing on the actual question.
No, that was highlighting my original point. You seem to have a lot of trouble with this.
See, the poll itself, which was not made by me, says it all. You have people start listing car makers by country of origin, how much more often is Italy going to be mentioned than Sweden?
Posts: 1840 | Location: Anaheim Hills, CA | Registered: Nov 18, 2007
Yeah, and that person included France, which hasn't been imported into the US in 20 years. Hey, tell me how Korea is more deserving than Sweden with all thier glory in racing and high performance vehicles they produce.
"Wine is bottled poetry." - Robert Louis Stevenson
Originally posted by vinole: Yeah, and that person included France, which hasn't been imported into the US in 20 years. Hey, tell me how Korea is more deserving than Sweden with all thier glory in racing and high performance vehicles they produce.
Come on, we do have Bugatti. Also, Renault does own Nissan, so we do have a French influence, technically.
Korea does not have a superior pedigree as you mentioned, but to the average person Hyundai's and Kia's are more visible.
I think the way the poll was made highlights how most people see it. Obviously you made your point about how you feel about it, I don't find it surprising.
Posts: 1840 | Location: Anaheim Hills, CA | Registered: Nov 18, 2007
Originally posted by vinole: Yeah, and that person included France, which hasn't been imported into the US in 20 years. Hey, tell me how Korea is more deserving than Sweden with all thier glory in racing and high performance vehicles they produce.
Come on, we do have Bugatti. Also, Renault does own Nissan, so we do have a French influence, technically.
Korea does not have a superior pedigree as you mentioned, but to the average person Hyundai's and Kia's are more visible.
I think the way the poll was made highlights how most people see it. Obviously you made your point about how you feel about it, I don't find it surprising.
It's obvious that Erin simply forgot Sweden. You, on the other hand, act as if YOU made the poll, then spout out all this nonsense to make a simple oversight into something more than it is. All because you are such a car guy. Who gives a crap what YOU think is influential? Just because something is missing doesn't mean that you can make up any reason that you want for it being missing, then turn around and use the fact that it is missing is somehow proof your theory is right.
You and your posters of Italian cars have a nice day now, ya hear?
P.S. You can take down the Farrah poster now.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: sydthesquid,
Originally posted by Sticky2: I thought it was pretty simple but I'll be more specific for those struggling. The parent company of the automobile being manufactured (the brand) not of the automotive group. As in for the X5 built in America, BMW - Germany. For a Rolls Royce, that would be English and Rolls Royce even though BMW - Germany owns the brand, a Rolls is not a German car.
I can see how it is confusing for those that do not have much experience with the automotive industry, hope this is more clear.
I'm not the one struggling, you are. First, you said it should be based on the country of the parent company. When I pointed out how that would work in a few cases, you changed it to where the cars are designed. Now you're saying it's the parent company of the automobile being manufactured (the brand) not of the automotive group. I've grown tired of this pointless debate as there is no black and white answer to where a car is from these days as it has become so blurred, which is all I pointing out all along.
But wait! Renault owns Nissan, so Nissan is really French.
