Well I've got to vent on how the NCAA is hosing FSU. They took away one more scholarship than the school had already self-imposed which is no biggie. What the school will likely appeal is the forfeiture of all games that any athlete in the online test scandal played in, which means all football games for 2006 and 2007, and a 2007 National Championship in track. All this from a rougue teacher that provided answers for a single online test. The school reported it all to the NCAA after its own investigation and self-imposed penalties, and this is how it's treated? I think the NCAA is still smarting from the Indian nickname debacle in which it tried to force the school to change its nickname despite the Seminole Tribe endorsing its use by the school. I guess the NCAA feels it knows what is better for the Tribe than they themselves. FSU gets nailed for this after turning themselves in and doesn't lift a finger to investigate Reggie Bush. A player that allegedly was paid while in college. That to me is a much bigger issue than a single online test that was immediately reported and dealt with by the school.
"Wine is bottled poetry." - Robert Louis Stevenson
Sorry to hear your squad is in trouble. I know if it were my Hawkeyes I'd be devastated. I'm sure alot worse violations go on at alot of other schools but your squad got caught and they want to make an example I guess. The football program will always bounce back but it's too bad that programs like track will be severely penalized and take a long time to recover. I'm sure in the FSU heyday for football they probably had similar things like that happen as well as at most big time division I schools. Too bad for Bowden at the end of his tenure.
Posts: 5223 | Location: minneapolis minnesota usa | Registered: Dec 17, 2003
Vinole, I agree that the NCAA are a bunch of douche bags for coming down on FSU and not doing a damn thing to USC when there is ample evidence of numerous violations.However, I am trying to view this in a positive light. If the wins get vacated Bobby can give up the race against Joe Pa and we can get a real head coach in there. Bobby lost my support after sticking with Jeff for so many years and watching his son run a once dynamic offense into the ground. At least we will always have the 14 year run in the top 5, never to be matched again.
Ps. I just got your screen name after reading this post. Very Nice! Now that I know you are a fellow Nole we definately have to get together soon. Also, Koch's house was unreal. Great event. I went to an live auction online this morning and probably went a little overboard after walking around in his cellar. All I can say is WOW!!!
jb82 - I agree that this could mean the end for Bowden that a lot of fans have been saying is overdue (including me). I got to the point where I expected either JoePa or Bowden would have to die before the other would retire. Keep in mind we still own the longest current winning season streak at 32 years that this would end at 29. Don't think our current longest bowl streak of 27 is in jeopardy, but the NCAA probably has someone assigned to erase bowls we played in. I've seen conflicting articles on track, with one saying all three NC's in track are at risk, and another just saying 07. Given the reaction I've seen in the media, I think FSU's appeal will prevail, just as they did in the nickname debacle as it is the NCAA once again overreaching. Another aspect to this is that the president of the NCAA, Myles Brand, has pancreatic cancer, and is likely to vacate the position soon and could cause some changes in what happens.
mwg - Our school didn't get caught, we turned ourselves in. FSU is certainly not perfect and has had it transgressions in the past, but these are the first football scholarships lost EVER. Please don't confuse us with UF and UM, who are among some of the most penalized teams in NCAA history.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: vinole,
"Wine is bottled poetry." - Robert Louis Stevenson
Vinole, even I, as a Buckeye fan, feel for the Noles' program right now. Never let the NCAA be accused of being equitable. The forfeiture of so many games from so many seasons in so many sports seems incredibly disproportionate to the crime, IMHO. And like you, I've been truly amazed at the way the whole Reggie Bush scandal seemed to evaporate. Just remarkable.
Unfortunately, most folks don't have a very nuanced understanding or memory of how these things happen. Two years from now, I doubt that the fact that FSU turned themselves in will be acknowledged by 90% of the people throwing muck. What a regrettable way for a coach like Bobbie Bowden to have to end his career. Hang in there, man. Perhaps more level heads will prevail in the end.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
Posts: 1592 | Location: Denver, CO | Registered: Jan 02, 2003
Originally posted by stickman: Vinole, even I, as a Buckeye fan, feel for the Noles' program right now. Never let the NCAA be accused of being equitable. The forfeiture of so many games from so many seasons in so many sports seems incredibly disproportionate to the crime, IMHO. And like you, I've been truly amazed at the way the whole Reggie Bush scandal seemed to evaporate. Just remarkable.
Unfortunately, most folks don't have a very nuanced understanding or memory of how these things happen. Two years from now, I doubt that the fact that FSU turned themselves in will be acknowledged by 90% of the people throwing muck. What a regrettable way for a coach like Bobbie Bowden to have to end his career. Hang in there, man. Perhaps more level heads will prevail in the end.
Spoken like a scholar and a gentleman.
quote:
Originally posted by Chilepepper: I don't see how the NCAA is over reaching at all here. Then again, I'm all for anything that tarnishes Bobby's image.
Spoken like a true Gator.
"Wine is bottled poetry." - Robert Louis Stevenson
Originally posted by Chilepepper: I don't see how the NCAA is over reaching at all here. Then again, I'm all for anything that tarnishes Bobby's image.
Typical Gator fan. Nevermind one of their o-linemen chased a dude with an AK-47, or another guy stole and used a dead girls credit card the DAY HE GOT OUT OF JAIL!!!!!!!!!!!! NO, FSU is bad for cheating on a music test. I cant wait until Tebow is gone and they go back to being an irelevant 8 win team every year.
The only thing that would improve his stature would be if he would get his stick,a$$, self to Dallas for an off-line.
I know Sandy would travel with him as well.
Um... thanks for the invitation. I will indeed endeavor to get whatever part of myself down to Dallas ASAP (at this point, read early June at the very earliest). I'm sure Sandy and I will share a glass or two before then, and we'll figure something out. 'Til then, y'all take good care.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
Posts: 1592 | Location: Denver, CO | Registered: Jan 02, 2003
Typical Gator fan. Nevermind one of their o-linemen chased a dude with an AK-47, or another guy stole and used a dead girls credit card the DAY HE GOT OUT OF JAIL!!!!!!!!!!!! NO, FSU is bad for cheating on a music test. I cant wait until Tebow is gone and they go back to being an irelevant 8 win team every year.
That's the pot calling the kettle black.
Funny you talk about 8 win seasons making a team irrelevant considering FSU's average over the past 3 years of just Under 8 wins.
We have been irelevant for the last 3 years, even longer if you ask me. I admit that. That is why I am excited about out new coaches and for Bobby to get out.
I notice how you side stepped my two examples of your teams many scrapes with the law. Well done.
I guess "money is the root of all evil", but I find it sad that college coaches find it necessary to bring in players with SAT scores of less than 800, and some with rap sheets as long as their tatooed arms.
If the money was taken out of the equation, would a National Championship really be worth the bad press the schools receive from bringing these guys in? Or do people just not care, bring in the convicted child molester if he can benchpress 400 lbs and run the 4.3 40!
One of the reasons Tubby Smith is still not at KY is that the admin got tired of him bringing in hoods of the street, that either ended up in jail within a few months or refused to do homework. They would be gone in a year and Tubby couldn't win with them anyway! But he kept bringing them in.
As a Gator fan, I am conflicted as to the NCAA treatment of FSU. I do remember the feeling of how I felt after UF got hammered by the NCAA in 1984 (has it been 25 years). I do not know enough about this case to argue its fairness, but I do know that nothing is logical or predictable about an NCAA ruling. I do not like them period.
The barbs thrown around about whose players are choirboys are predictable. All teams will have these incidents due to player backgrounds and the amount of players per team. To me, it is what the leadership does handling these incidents. I know that I spend all off seasons praying my team does not lose all of its starting lineup due to off field behavior, grades or injury.
All haters of UF are dreaming if they think UF reverts to 8 win seasons after Tebow lives. Meyer has recruited great and UF has plenty of great players on the roster.
Posts: 521 | Location: Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: Oct 29, 2002
I disagree. Not all schools have these problems. In fact most do not! Many schools do not recruit, nor offer scholarships, to that quality of low life individual. When coaches brings in an athlete with a rap sheet that coach is making a statement.
Most schools who compete for championships do. I know the Vandys, Wakes, Stanfords and such do not, but most state u's do.
That being said, most of Meyer's recruits at UF are quality guys. There are numerous great players, can you say Noel Devine, whom Meyer passed on due to character issues. Many of the incidents cited are Zook recruits. Spurrier also had a good record on player behavior at UF. UF does not knowingly recruit bad people, but with 100 on the roster, one or two will pop up per year.
Posts: 521 | Location: Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: Oct 29, 2002
There is no debate which team has more thugs. They fill both rosters. I just find it laughable that UF fans are laughing at FSU thugs while ignoring the litany of felonies their players have commited in the past year.
UM is on a whole other level when it comes to thugs, but they are cleaning up their act.
Sandy, every team does have these kind of issues. Some just hide them better. Mario Manningham's 3 failed drug tests at Michigan didnt come out until the combine last year. The only statement a coach who does not recruit troubled kids makes is that he doesnt plan on keeping his job very long.
scbeerman, kind of like all the UF basketball haters who said you couldnt win without a bunch of NBA draft picks on your team were proven wrong, oh wait. . .
This thought of UF as an old school football powerhouse is hilarious. They were irrelevant before Spurrier came. They hadnt even ever won an SEC Championship until they hired the old ball coach. Enjoy Tebow next year and then its back to 8 win seasons.
Most of my friends went to UF so I am well versed in these types of discussions.
Love your spirit. Just looks like we will each put an an expensive bottle of wine every year with the over/under being 8 wins.
UF may have been irrelevant before 1990, but has won the most games in college football during that period. Having the best record over a 20 year period (yes, we will keep it in 2009) has to mean something towards "tradition".
Posts: 521 | Location: Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: Oct 29, 2002
Unfortunately spirit is all FSU fans have had to hang our hats on the last few years. That and our very attractive coeds. I think we are finally getting our act together though.
Sounds like bet to me. Free wine always tastes better.
"I just find it laughable that UF fans are laughing at FSU thugs while ignoring the litany of felonies their players have commited in the past year."
I haven't thrown any stones here...just pointed out its a bit hypocritical of an FSU fan to point out a few incidences some Gator players have had. I don't condone the behavior and always trust Meyer will discipline the players in the appropriate manner. He has already proven that some players just won't rejoin the team when they mess up.
"This thought of UF as an old school football powerhouse is hilarious. They were irrelevant before Spurrier came. They hadnt even ever won an SEC Championship until they hired the old ball coach."
Prior to 1983, all Florida teams were pretty irrelevant, you must be responding to points of friends that you know as I don't recall seeing this point brought up here. Also, technically we won the SEC in 1984 and 1985, but as part of the stiff medicine we took post Charley Pell, the 1984 title was stripped and we weren't eligible in 1985. That probation forced us to give up a good many scholarships until 1987, which FSU used to benefit their program as they rose to prominence in the late 1980's. Probation sanctions have been weakened since the 1980's, and thus I don't see the big deal with FSU's current sanctions. Back in the 1980's, probation usually meant no TV, bowls AND loss of scholarships. Were our transgressions back then worse than FSU's current charges? Of course, and the punishment much more severe as well.
"Enjoy Tebow next year and then its back to 8 win seasons."
No doubt, he is a great player, but when you wake up from your dream about how Florida can't when more than 8 games a year without him, let me know.
------------------- "She wore a Mount Rushmore T-shirt, and those guys never looked so good--especially Jefferson and Lincoln--kind of bloated, but happy." --Guy Noir
Posts: 947 | Location: Saginaw, MI | Registered: Mar 12, 2007
Yes, Meyer has shown that he will discipline players as long as they are not starters. Example A is Carl Johnson, who was recently arrested for violating a domestic violence restraining order against a woman he date-raped. He is a starter so he is still on the team.
The old school powerhouse comment goes directly to the 8 wins after Tebow leaves thought. They werent any good before Spurrier got there and then when he left their win totals the next 3 seasons were 8,8,7. Urban came in and won 9 games and then a champoinship in Tebows first year. Good job. Then his stud QB gets dinged up a bit and his record goes to 9-4. He then wins another championship with a healthy Tebow. I see a pattern here. Once Tebow is gone I think you are going to have a tough time. Especially finding a QB tough enough to take the hits that Tebow could in the SEC.
