It seems as if I'm in the minority in thinking that the series has really lost its way. Much of this is due to the fact that the writers have distorted history to such a degree. Amongst the more egregious instances are (i) Atia living far beyond her historical lifetime, and (ii) messing up the timeline of Antony-Octavia-Cleopatra.

As such, the last two espisodes (based on seeing one and the preview for the other) seem rushed as they cover roughly eight years in two hours. Of course, much of this was given over to gratuitous sex scenes. While this has it's place and appeal, the Octavius-Livia scene tells us little to advance the plot and Antony and Cleo felt like torture (which was the intent).

The remaining intrigue is who will kill Caesarion? Will he actually be killed or will someone be killed in his stead as he is snuck away to live with father Pullo? Also, the final Pullo-Vorenus confrontation or commiseration awaits.

Also, Niobe was back in a dream and she is very hot but I was referring to Erine, Pullo's wife who Gaia killed, above.

BTW, great call on the Human League look. They should have used "Don't You Want Me Baby?" as background music.

Neil

Neil,
You make good points. All I can say is I really like the show. I like the dialogue, characters, humor, relationships etc. etc. I do not find myself worrying about how it measures up with what really happened. Any movie based on anything, a comic book, video game, book or historic event seems to be innacurate when compared to the original. I just love this show and will miss it.

I agree it seems rushed. I would have loved for this show to be 15 episode seasons and five+ seasons long. Looks like that will not happen.

Overall, I thought season one was superior and integrated the Forest Gump/Rosekrantz & Gildenstern characters better into the march of history.

I would have preferred more seasons and the fact that season 2 is it likely influenced the issues I'm complaining about.

I assume you read that they spent (HBO/BBC) $100 million on this show.

Neil

Well spo, it all ends tonight.

wine+art, the good shows always get cancelled. The next season of The Wire is the last one as well.

I don't know about you but I feel like I want some more...but it is still brilliant.

They should have had a couple more episodes in between the last 2 episodes...and expand the last 30 minutes to another hour.

I can understand why they only made 2 seasons...the production value is just awesome. not to mention great writing and acting.

Nice enough finale but it dragged a bit in parts. I really liked Pullo's ending. The visuals of the Triumph were wonderful. The orgiastic excess in Egypt was a waste. I thought Atia was a distraction ever since Servilia "shamed" her. I also thought that we were told Octavian was cold and soulless but he didn't behave that way.

Other obvervations:

Pullo is Forest Gump. Vorenus is Lt. Dan/Bubba.

Marc Antony was Tommy (Joe Pesce) in Goodfellas when he asked "you think I'm funny?"

Marc Antony/Cleo were Tony/Maria. They almost broke into a rendition of "Somewhere..."

and, of course, Octavia is Michael Corleone.

Neil

With Antony and Cleopatra's physical and roller coaster romance, how they also could see their time coming to an end, and how they immersed themselves in excess, it reminded me of Tony Montana and Elvira (Michelle Pfeiffer) in Scarface.

quote:

Originally posted by Neil K.:
Other obvervations:
...Marc Antony was Tommy (Joe Pesce) in Goodfellas when he asked "you think I'm funny?"...

This is no observation. It was a deliberate series of quotes.

Well, of course, it was deliberate. The writers can't be that oblivious of famous movie quotes. As such, it was essentially self-parody. This also holds with the Caligula (via Guccione) orgy scenes, the Scarface reference above and others.

BTW, I see the Scarface analogy but that was basically Tony alone leaving Cleo with no equivalent.

Neil

Neil,
Whats with the fascination with this time peroid? I bet you are one boring dinner date. Get a life!

quote:

Originally posted by Neil K.:
Well, of course, it was deliberate. The writers can't be that oblivious of famous movie quotes. As such, it was essentially self-parody. This also holds with the Caligula (via Guccione) orgy scenes, the Scarface reference above and others.

BTW, I see the Scarface analogy but that was basically Tony alone leaving Cleo with no equivalent.

Neil

But Pullo is Forest Gump? Why denigrate such a great character as Pullo and a great show such as Rome by comparing it to that dreck?

While I did not intend to denigrate Rome or Pullo, I would point out that some would ask the same question in reverse.

As for the comparison, the Pullo/Vorenus characters have been portrayed as "everyman", accidental witnesses to history. Similary, Forest Gump (or Zelig if you want another) was portrayed the same way. Since Pullo reunited with his son at the conclusion, I thought he, rather than Vorenus, was the 'real' Forest Gump. Of course, that means that Cleopatra was Jenny.

As you mentioned before, all of these references (Tommy from Goodfellas, Michael from Godfather, etc.) are deliberate on behalf of the writers. Essentially, they are using shorthand to make the characters more accessible.

As for Rome being "great", I thought it was only good. I preferred the first season to this one.

Neil

Hey Neil,

quote:

Michael from Godfather, etc.) are deliberate on behalf of the writers. Essentially, they are using shorthand to make the characters more accessible.

How would you like to sleep with the fishes?