Hell, I'd never have said a thing if you hadn't made the remark about spelling in your original post!
Guys, this is simple. If the the seller of the product is happy with his selling price to the "broker," the broker happy with his selling price to the ultimate consumer and the final consumer is happy with what he's paying, I really don't see what the problem is. It's capitalism in action.
This isn't the place for cult flippers/brokers to do their thing for the most part. It's really designed more for regular posters to do their thing at or near market rates. That being said, since Fatcity started the thread, it's hard to fault cultwines.
I'd be more interested in how cultwines got my e-mail address if I hadn't given it to them. Perhaps someone Fatcity does busines with has sold his address? Now that would make me mad!
I know and I was upset at the time. Besides, who am I to speak about grammer errors! LOL.
Thank you again for your kind remarks as I appreciate them. I do believe your 100% correct.
I re-acted to this thread because of an employee bringing this to my attention. I am sorry for the way this has developed as we are passionate about wines and our clients as you can see. We love what we do and simply put our business provides a valuable service for clients who do not have the time to source many differnt wines they are looking to acquire. I agree 100% that this is not the place for us to try to sell wines and we never do.....I appreciate all wines and respect other people's opinions as well. I was offended by the original comments and was even further offended when he claimed he was merely trying to point me out as a guy trying to make a buck.
If purchasing $4M in inventory and catering to my clients every need makes me a "flipper", then place I only wish to be the biggest flipper! We have our own temp controlled warehouse, major inventory and a staff of employees and reps whose families rely on our ability to be successful. I am not sure how many "flippers" have that much inventory or proper facilities. We are not some guy flipping wines out of his garage.
Simply, I am sorry that this took this direction for all concerned.....life is too short. I would gladly apologize for venting on here and hopefully if people do not wish to purchase wines from us they simply will not and maybe not try to post negative comments on the boards....
Hell, I'd never have said a thing if you hadn't made the remark about spelling in your original post!
Guys, this is simple. If the the seller of the product is happy with his selling price to the "broker," the broker happy with his selling price to the ultimate consumer and the final consumer is happy with what he's paying, I really don't see what the problem is. It's capitalism in action.
This isn't the place for cult flippers/brokers to do their thing for the most part. It's really designed more for regular posters to do their thing at or near market rates. That being said, since Fatcity started the thread, it's hard to fault cultwines.
I'd be more interested in how cultwines got my e-mail address if I hadn't given it to them. Perhaps someone Fatcity does busines with has sold his address? Now that would make me mad!
I know and I was upset at the time. Besides, who am I to speak about grammer errors! LOL.
Thank you again for your kind remarks as I appreciate them. I do believe your 100% correct.
I re-acted to this thread because of an employee bringing this to my attention. I am sorry for the way this has developed as we are passionate about wines and our clients as you can see. We love what we do and simply put our business provides a valuable service for clients who do not have the time to source many differnt wines they are looking to acquire. I agree 100% that this is not the place for us to try to sell wines and we never do.....I appreciate all wines and respect other people's opinions as well. I was offended by the original comments and was even further offended when he claimed he was merely trying to point me out as a guy trying to make a buck.
If purchasing $4M in inventory and catering to my clients every need makes me a "flipper", then place I only wish to be the biggest flipper! We have our own temp controlled warehouse, major inventory and a staff of employees and reps whose families rely on our ability to be successful. I am not sure how many "flippers" have that much inventory or proper facilities. We are not some guy flipping wines out of his garage.
Simply, I am sorry that this took this direction for all concerned.....life is too short. I would gladly apologize for venting on here and hopefully if people do not wish to purchase wines from us they simply will not and maybe not try to post negative comments on the boards....
take care
Oops! Wrong name!
Posts: 1420 | Location: Jersey City | Registered: Feb 22, 2006
sprnplr... You beat me. Man I love being right. Sneaky little bastard.
By the way winedirector/cultboy, it's to late to apologize. I will be certain to let all of my friends and associates know not to do business with cultwines.com. I will also be sure to let anyone on this forum know not to do business with you. When they ask why I will happily point them in the direction of this thread. Then they can decide for themselves. Because after all that is what it's all about.
Now ignore us and go spend time with your family.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Curt,
Originally posted by Gigond Ass: Total bull$hit. "..............." Get off the cross. Someone else needs the wood.
GA: Straight on and to the point.
Winedirector: If you follow these boards, you'll notice that those that continually attempt to defend their positions, while 'hitting back' at the posters, will draw a crowd and get bludgeoned. You usually won't make your point during the riot. Just duck down, let the storm pass, and find another way to make your point.
Cultboy: With 6 posts, you've freshly arrived. However, if I can offer just a bit of friendly advice. Kick back, read the threads, contribute your opinions if you feel you have something beneficial to say, but DON'T jump into a debate right out the gate. Let the veterans duke it all out. You put yourself into a needless lose-lose situation. This forum is awesome. You'll meet some of the greatest, most down-to-earth, yet very educated and informed, people here. You'll learn more about wine here than most anywhere else. You'll find a wide range of colorful personalities here. Embrace it. Stay loose and enjoy. Welcome to the boards.
[quote]Posted Jun 23, 2007 12:40 PM Hide Post Total bull$hit.
If you don't want to sell for an agreed price, don't.
If you don't want to buy for the price offered, don't.
A bunch of wine buying and sellng Joan of Arc wannabees. This is still a capitalist country isn't it. Did I miss where all of you became the wine buying and selling police?
I've never done business with the poster and probably won't due to the prices asked to buy the wine. If someone else wants to, and they can come to a mutual business agreement, who the f'ck cares if someone else buys or sells wine and what they buy it or sell it for?
Get off the cross. Someone else needs the wood.
I love this saying and posting! This is classic and would love to use this with all credit going to you!
On the other posting by Curt
I ONLY WILL SAY ONE THING:
My response is a response to the orignal 3 postings BASHING my entity....so please don't tell me about customer service etiquette as you are not one of our clients...we are discussing a thread which was started by bashing our company email...... I was responding to the Bashee....
Please get it right......as far as our customer service, I will place it with any wine entity in the world....How would you know unless you experienced it first hand? Oh that is right, you making another assumption from a response from a guy who has called my company a "Gong Show' we spent four years building because he does not like our prices.....That is the reality of this situation.
I was simply expressing the fact that you went on a tirade on a public forum. A tirade against someone who has every right to post a grievance, especially in regard to junk email. My comments are not about your business' prices in general more to the point of what you said and where you said it. If this is how you react to negative comments then it is hard for me to see how you could truly demonstrate a "customer first" attitude. Perhaps you go out of your way to make a client happy, but I can definitely predict what might happen if a customer was dissatisfied. I don't think you would be able to keep the customer. Yes I am assuming, but with the example of how you handled the situation, by personally attacking someone, I will continue to only assume. Perhaps the next time you receive negative press you should approach it a different way.
On a side note creating a second profile to act as an innocent 3rd party is a bit suspect. If you deal this shadily in public how shady are you in business?
WineDirector must have/had a huge fish on the line to utilize your emailing list as a spamming tool.
And, I like this quote from WineDirector the best.... "You probably have never had the incredible experience of even drinking a Harlan Estate wine! Then again, I would bet you were excited when Two-Buck-Chuck was introduced to the market. Great value and something you can afford!" Now, what were you saying about stereotyping??
I can afford Harlan. I choose not to, because I don't consider drinking an over-priced, over-hyped bottle of wine an incredible experience.
Your responses on this board, outside of defending your point-whores, just go to show that you are no better than all the flippers out there, you just do it masquerading as a hardworking business man.
Posts: 403 | Location: West Coast | Registered: Nov 07, 2006
Total bull$hit. People willing to pay the price for scarce highly allocated wines drive up the prices.
The fact that someone is willing to sell anything for what the market will bear has nothing to do with driving up the price.
If you want socialism, move to Canada. Then you can have all your wine decisions made for you by a benevolent government.
-------------------- "One may dislike carrots, spinach, beetroot, or the skin on hot milk. But not wine. It is like hating the air that one breathes, since each is equally indispensable."
Marcel Ayme`
Posts: 7300 | Location: The Left Coast | Registered: Dec 01, 2001
Thanks, GA. I had to go fold laundry, but you nailed it. And as far as cultwine.com being a flipper......EVERYBODY in retail is a flipper! The term has a derogatory connotation with wine, but it's not deserved. Retailers (flippers) buy commodities for the purpose of reselling for a profit. If their price exceeds what the demand for the product in the marketplace will bear, the price gets stabilized by market forces. Demand drives up prices. PERIOD. It's not even Econ 101, this is high school stuff.
Fatcity, with all due respect, do you work for the government or are you in private industry? Your argument has all the hallmarks of someone who works for the government.
Did you subscribe to cultwines.com or did they spam you?
PH
Posts: 9659 | Location: Maryland, USA (DC suburbs) | Registered: Nov 22, 2003
Thanks for the Econ lesson, gentlemen, I think I'm ready to start my own retail (flipping) business.
Selling a bottle of wine (using the '02 HSS as an example) for $545/btl when it is readily available for $375 on the open, non-auction, market to a customer who doesn't have the time or resources to look for it, doesn't sound to me like they're looking out for their customer(s), but rather taking advantage of them and exploiting their wealth (sorry for the run-on). Sounds a little like Enron. That's a $170 (45%) markup on a bottle that's already been marked up almost 100%, and I'm sure CW purchases it for less than low-retail. CW could easily acquire the wine for less from private sellers or at auction and still make a hefty profit without exploiting and leveraging the weatlh of their customers to support and inflate an already over-priced market. Now apply this to even lower-production wines and you get my point.
I did not join their email list. I made a single inquiry a long while back and that was it.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Fatcity,
Posts: 403 | Location: West Coast | Registered: Nov 07, 2006
Erm, I think that's taking the argument too far. Flippers are part of the demand equation before they become suppliers. Flippers just take advantage of inequities in the market (such as closed mailing lists) and/or speculate based on expectations of good reviews after release (which might also be considered an inequity in the market, in that some people have better information / knowledge).
In any case, I don't see how flippers could drive prices down unless they're taking a loss.
Posts: 1930 | Location: San Diego, CA | Registered: Nov 19, 2005
Just curious, this is all highly amusing, but has anyone determined if cultwine.com is a real business in the first place? Could this be a complete set-up?
I clicked on most of the categories listed on their (his) website, and almost all were empty. One single bottle showed up in the Bordeaux category, a 1928 Lafite. The same wine is available on winecommune.com listed by a "Winedirector". This same Wine director has a total of two or three other items listed.
Fenn & Assoc pulls almost no hits from Google. I can't believe that Winedirector/cultwine guy thinks he is gaining any positive PR here, so my conclusion is that someone is yanking a chain.
Originally posted by Cultboy: [quote]Posted Jun 23, 2007 12:40 PM Hide Post Total bull$hit.
If you don't want to sell for an agreed price, don't.
If you don't want to buy for the price offered, don't.
A bunch of wine buying and sellng Joan of Arc wannabees. This is still a capitalist country isn't it. Did I miss where all of you became the wine buying and selling police?
I've never done business with the poster and probably won't due to the prices asked to buy the wine. If someone else wants to, and they can come to a mutual business agreement, who the f'ck cares if someone else buys or sells wine and what they buy it or sell it for?
Get off the cross. Someone else needs the wood.
I love this saying and posting! This is classic and would love to use this with all credit going to you!
On the other posting by Curt
I ONLY WILL SAY ONE THING:
My response is a response to the orignal 3 postings BASHING my entity....so please don't tell me about customer service etiquette as you are not one of our clients...we are discussing a thread which was started by bashing our company email...... I was responding to the Bashee....
Please get it right......as far as our customer service, I will place it with any wine entity in the world....How would you know unless you experienced it first hand? Oh that is right, you making another assumption from a response from a guy who has called my company a "Gong Show' we spent four years building because he does not like our prices.....That is the reality of this situation.
May I recommend a career change? If this is the way you respond to the public whining about your business (whether justified or not), then you should not be dealing with the public.
Originally posted by Fatcity: Thanks for the Econ lesson, gentlemen, I think I'm ready to start my own retail (flipping) business.
Selling a bottle of wine (using the '02 HSS as an example) for $545/btl when it is readily available for $375 on the open, non-auction, market to a customer who doesn't have the time or resources to look for it, doesn't sound to me like they're looking out for their customer(s), but rather taking advantage of them and exploiting their wealth (sorry for the run-on). Sounds a little like Enron. That's a $170 (45%) markup on a bottle that's already been marked up almost 100%, and I'm sure CW purchases it for less than low-retail. CW could easily acquire the wine for less from private sellers or at auction and still make a hefty profit without exploiting and leveraging the weatlh of their customers to support and inflate an already over-priced market. Now apply this to even lower-production wines and you get my point.
I did not join their email list. I made a single inquiry a long while back and that was it.
Blah blah blah.......
This stupid post has nothing to do with your ignorant statement that flippers drive up prices. If someone is too lazy, or perhaps too stupid to buy wine at the lowest price, so be it.
Typical obfuscation of a lost argument because the premise it was based on is wrong.
-------------------- "One may dislike carrots, spinach, beetroot, or the skin on hot milk. But not wine. It is like hating the air that one breathes, since each is equally indispensable."
Marcel Ayme`
Posts: 7300 | Location: The Left Coast | Registered: Dec 01, 2001
Originally posted by Fatcity: Thanks for the Econ lesson, gentlemen, I think I'm ready to start my own retail (flipping) business.
Selling a bottle of wine (using the '02 HSS as an example) for $545/btl when it is readily available for $375 on the open, non-auction, market to a customer who doesn't have the time or resources to look for it, doesn't sound to me like they're looking out for their customer(s), but rather taking advantage of them and exploiting their wealth (sorry for the run-on). Sounds a little like Enron. That's a $170 (45%) markup on a bottle that's already been marked up almost 100%, and I'm sure CW purchases it for less than low-retail. CW could easily acquire the wine for less from private sellers or at auction and still make a hefty profit without exploiting and leveraging the weatlh of their customers to support and inflate an already over-priced market. Now apply this to even lower-production wines and you get my point.
I did not join their email list. I made a single inquiry a long while back and that was it.
enron is not an applicable example sir. If you can find a good deal and you sell it to someone else who does not have access to this deal more power to you.
If you found a piece of chalk for 5$ and someone offered you 100$ for it would you not sell it to them?
If you say no you're lying out of your ass and only arguing for the sake of arguing
Alright, one last comment. They do appear to have more wines on their site. Whether they actually have them all in stock is beyond me. I just thought that their shipping policy was the greatest. Especially since it is a near exact copy of winebid.com's shipping policy. It even has the if temps at either of our shipping facilities line, when at the end he only lists one shipping facility. I am pretty sure winebid.com would love to know there page was stolen, sure it's just a shipping policy but it gets shadier and shadier. Not to mention he wants $1280 for a bottle of 1990 Krug, which I have found all over for less than $250.
If he really does have all of this wine keep an eye out for great deals. I imagine he'll be liquidating through an auction house before long when he goes out of business.
Originally posted by sydthesquid: If this is the way you respond to the public whining about your business (whether justified or not), then you should not be dealing with the public.
That's the whole point here. They aren't dealing with the "public" in a general public sense. They are dealing with a very small market that doesn't have the time nor the desire to seek out these wines on their own. These are the kind of people that will drop $500 on a bottle without batting an eye. Their disposable income is on a level similar to some of you guys dropping $30 on a bottle (you hardly give it a second thought). However, the reason these guys got to that point is that they work 18 hour days, and that leaves little time to search for a so-called deal. They want the wine, Cultwine can get it and provide it to them, a one-stop wine source. It's a simple business model very similar to the art world. Don't ridicule a business just because you don't understand it. If it's flawed, it won't survive.....period.
I believe that many of you really need to go to college and take some simple business and economics courses. Though for some of you, I guess getting out of high school first should be the goal. All through college I thought it was a waste of time because I always believed that this stuff was common sense, but I guess not.
