I'm only talking about red wine here. I took a look at a few of the past vintages I have purchased over the last 10 years to see how much I was spending per bottle. The price had been relatively stable until 2005 came along. Even in 2000, my average price was right in the middle of other years.

I haven't bought a 1st growth since 1998. I buy many of the same estates and mostly the wines fall into the 2nd to 5th growth category.

Here are my averages:

1998 = $40 (avg is skewed of Haut Brion purchase)
2000 = $39.50
2003 = $37
2005 = $60

If I was spending about $39 per bottle in 1998, 2000 and 2003, my average of $60 per bottle in 2005 represents a 53% increase in the average cost of my Bordeaux purchases.

Is everyone else about the same?

VM

2000 - $67
2001 - $57
2003 - $51
2004 - $39
2005 - $44

I thought my 2005 would be much higher, but when I’m looking at the report most of my futures over $75 were in 3 to 6 bottle lots. I have some cases of QPR’s (Fleur Cardinale, Bellefont-Belcier, Lanessan, Haut-Bages, Z, Caronne Ste. Gamme, etc) that are bringing down the avg. price.

1998- Less than $50
2000- Less than $60
2001- $40-50
2003- $60-70
2005- $0 Bordeaux can kiss my white a$$.

I stopped buying Bordeaux wines in 2000. Before 1995, an expensive bottle was $100, and most were $40/$60 (including First Growths prior to 1995! During the 1980's $50 was expensive and you could buy 2nd Growths for $15/$18.

There were so many new collectors starting in the mid 90's that the Chateaux & Negociants continuously repriced the wine and new collectors paid dearly, thinking they were getting something valuable instead of just a consumable product.

Today, it's difficult to find a good Bordeaux wine on a North American Restaurant wine list. In reality, they have priced themselve out of the business. That is also a developing problem with high end Napa Cabs!

Ok Latour67, we get it already, Bordeaux is more expensive now than it was in the 80’s, but so is pretty much everything else in the world! My dad used to be able to buy a Big Mac for $.25 but now has to pay $5 when he has a Mac Attack!!!

And I would say Bordeaux is still a better value than Napa Cab. both in retail and on wine lists.

quote:

I stopped buying Bordeaux wines in 2000. Before 1995, an expensive bottle was $100, and most were $40/$60 (including First Growths prior to 1995! During the 1980's $50 was expensive and you could buy 2nd Growths for $15/$18.

There were so many new collectors starting in the mid 90's that the Chateaux & Negociants continuously repriced the wine and new collectors paid dearly, thinking they were getting something valuable instead of just a consumable product.

Today, it's difficult to find a good Bordeaux wine on a North American Restaurant wine list. In reality, they have priced themselve out of the business. That is also a developing problem with high end Napa Cabs!

In 1995 I didn't own a cell phone, had no internet and made 5 times less money than I do today. It's all relative and that includes wine.

quote:

Originally posted by khmark7:

In 1995 I didn't own a cell phone, had no internet and made 5 times less money than I do today. It's all relative and that includes wine.

relative to what? =)

in 95 I had a beeper, a 300 baud modem and made no money =)

quote:

Originally posted by g-man:
relative to what? =)

in 95 I had a beeper, a 300 baud modem and made no money =)

Dude, I had a beeper in high school. I thought I was the man!!

I have never had a beeper....

quote:

Originally posted by Dom'n'Vin'sDad:
I have never had a beeper....

Would you like mine? I'd be happy to give it to you to try it out, infact, you can have it free of charge.

Close to $ 48.00

Try not to buy too much with our worthless $$$$$

quote:

And I would say Bordeaux is still a better value than Napa Cab. both in retail and on wine lists.

GlennK,

What I said was--- Bordeaux had priced themselves off the North American Wine Lists. Many restaurants no longer have a Bordeaux section, and the ones that do, usually have no better that Greysac, Peyraud, Gloria, or Mouton Cadet. This is far different than just 15 years ago. Many restaurants can't afford to cellar 1st & 2nd Growth Bordeaux wines at $250/$700 per bottle.

Most all restaurants that have an excellent Bordeaux wine list have been in business for more than 20 years and you may be able to find some excellent prices on their lists.

I buy alot of the same wines year in and year out. I bought 89 Leoville Barton for $25-$30. 89 GrandPuyLacoste for $20-$25. 90 Pape Clement for $45. So inflation has probably been steeper than you estimate all else being equal. Take Leoville Barton, which has a reputation as being consumer friendly in keeping its price relatively low vis-a-vis its quality and reputation. I calculate that LB's price inflation has galloped ahead at roughly 12% per year.

Latour67,

The wine list thing is tough to generalize because it’s so different restaurant to restaurant. But I could imagine 15 years ago there were quite a bit more affordable Bordeaux alternatives on most wine lists.

When I was talking about value I was thinking of recent examples I have seen on wine lists. At a New York steak house recently they had the 2000 Duhart-Milon for $120. The best I could find for $120 on the Napa side was the 2004 Turnbull. I don’t think either is worth that much, but which wine do you think is the better value?

quote:

Originally posted by GlennK:
Latour67,

The wine list thing is tough to generalize because it’s so different restaurant to restaurant. But I could imagine 15 years ago there were quite a bit more affordable Bordeaux alternatives on most wine lists.

When I was talking about value I was thinking of recent examples I have seen on wine lists. At a New York steak house recently they had the 2000 Duhart-Milon for $120. The best I could find for $120 on the Napa side was the 2004 Turnbull. I don’t think either is worth that much, but which wine do you think is the better value?

During the 1980's, most excellent NY Restaurants had outstanding wine lists with great Bordeaux vintages, especially La Cote Basque, Lutece, and Sparks Steakhouse. Also, the prices, while high for the time, were really affordable.

As for the 2000 Duhart or the 2004 Turnbull, I'm not a fan of either wine. However, if I had to choose one, it would be the Bordeaux, just because of its lineage. However, I really think lineage has been compromised with modern wine making techniques, and although I've been a Bordeaux collector for many years, I now favor the New World styled wines.

Unfortunatly my average price is nudging $110 a bottle ($109.80).

I blame the LCBO, 2005 and 2000 in that order...