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Best "Traditional" Rioja ?
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quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik,:
+2.


Nice!! Remember, we don't like champagne which we find akin to corked white white wine. Other than that, feel free to post at whim. Razz


Big Grin, my work here is done now, back to hibernation.

Soo long,
 
Posts: 167 | Location: St. Louis | Registered: Jan 27, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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GregT

thanks again Greg!

Are there any sources that you recommend for great Rioja at decent prices? I have used the Rare Wine Co. a few times and have been happy with the bottle conditions, but do not see very many other places that reliably carry Rioja (particularly the older GRs from non-Lopez/Cune).

G
 
Posts: 2104 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 17, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well at the risk of sounding really sappy, thanks for the kind words everyone. Who knew?

quote:
Nice!! Remember, we don't like champagne which we find akin to corked white white wine. Other than that, feel free to post at whim.

I don't even know if this is on the right thread, but it's hilarious nonetheless. Not even sure I agree as I've had some pretty good Champagne, but as a complete dismissal or an entire category, well, gotta smile.

Thirsty - the RWC has a great business and I have purchased stuff from them in the past. More importantly, Manny was very cool when a moron was going off at a tasting, directed at me. RWC finds great wines and if they have something you like, I'd go for it. They've had a few dinners where they've invited a few folks who as a result, now fancy themselves as Rioja cognoscenti. No matter.

Today there doesn't seem to be a premier place for those wines. At one point it was PJs wine in NYC. They realized they didn't have a chance with French wine as there were established purveyors, and they wanted to, and in fact became, the premier place in the US for Spanish wine. They may still be the top place for sherry.

But times have changed and the economic crisis has had a huge impact and of course, they got rid of the people who know more about Spanish wine than pretty much anyone else I can think of.

On top of that, the Rioja producers realized what they had. So the wine that you used to pick up for $50 is now $125 or more. But still a bargain when compared to say, Hermitage or Burgundy for similar vintages.

K+L is doing some direct imports and I would encourage you to look at those.

Send me a note at wine.greg@gmail.com and I'll send you my recs, for whatever they may be worth.


"The best part is how he said the ENGLISH language. Fine irony. Use American next time."
 
Posts: 2678 | Location: NY | Registered: Dec 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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GregT and anyone who can answer.

I know the Spanish seem to hold Rioja and other wines till they are ready to drink but does Rioja (once released) ever shut down? A second time maybe?
 
Posts: 8803 | Location: North CA | Registered: May 28, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Greg: I just giggled to myself reading your incredibly knowledgable notes and realize what a newbie I am with respect to wines. You take it to a different level, and the rest of us benefit from your educational posts. Keep up the great work and continue to provide us with your insights and wisdom. I totally appreciate your inspiring notes and agree with everyone above when we compliment you for what you contribute.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Posts: 5864 | Registered: Jan 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hey Greg, can you recomend a good book about Rioja, similar to that Brunello book by Kerin OKeefe mentioned on another thread? Thanks.


"The hardest thing to attain ... is the appreciation of difference without insisting on superiority" George Saintsbury
 
Posts: 1693 | Location: DC Suburbs, Potomac MD. | Registered: Dec 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Been out of commission for a while so sorry for not responding. And thanks again folks.

Spo - interesting question. Remember that not all Spanish wine producers hold the wine for you - only those who designate the wine crianza/reserva/gran reserva do that. Other designations have no aging requirements and the wines can be released at any time.

But let's look at some data points that we do have and extrapolate. Most of the centenary wineries also make a kind of "modern" style as well. Muga for example, makes the Torre Muga and Aro, both of which are often termed "modern.

"Modern" means several things, but one of them is that they don't follow the crianza, reserva, GR model. Those wines are sold when the winery wants to sell them, regardless of whether they've aged some given amount of time in cask or bottle. So you can buy the Muga Gran Reserva, which is going to see the two plus three plus whatever other time they want to keep it at the bodega, or you can buy the Torre Muga and drink it quickly or in a few years.

I once asked Isaac Muga about keeping Torre Muga for years because we'd just had a 1996 a few nights earlier. He said to drink it fast, because otherwise you'd just end up with a gran reserva.

That's not a bad thing. But the wine was good on release, it's good now, and it will be good in the future. So that one didn't experience shut down.

If you taste LdH's wines before they're released they're quite fruity when young, which makes sense. They just don't release them that way.

OTOH, right next door is Roda and those wines are released much earlier than their neighbor's. I've not noticed that they shut down at all though.

Frankly, I've never noticed any Rioja to be "shut down"; they're just at different points in their evolution, but always drinkable. A gran reserva should never shut down - it should be drinkable on release and forever after. A wine called "seleccion" or something like that might not be quite "ready" on release, but I've never known them to shut down.

Merengue - best book out right now is pretty new and it was written by some of the people who know as much about Spanish wine as anyone in the world. It's called "The Finest Wines of Rioja and Northwest Spain", written by Jesús Barquín, Luis Gutierrez, and Victor de la Serna. I don't know Luis but Jancis Robinson asked him to cover Spain for her, Jesús is a friend and an amazing resource, and Victor is an acquaintance and a curmudgeonly but incredibly articulate, humorous, and knowledgeable resource as well. You can't get any better teachers than those guys.

And again, I'd urge you to read the recent article by Tom Matthews - he covered some ground that virtually nobody talks about. I thought it was a really excellent job on the region.


"The best part is how he said the ENGLISH language. Fine irony. Use American next time."
 
Posts: 2678 | Location: NY | Registered: Dec 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by GregT:
Merengue - best book out right now is pretty new and it was written by some of the people who know as much about Spanish wine as anyone in the world. It's called "The Finest Wines of Rioja and Northwest Spain", written by Jesús Barquín, Luis Gutierrez, and Victor de la Serna. I don't know Luis but Jancis Robinson asked him to cover Spain for her, Jesús is a friend and an amazing resource, and Victor is an acquaintance and a curmudgeonly but incredibly articulate, humorous, and knowledgeable resource as well. You can't get any better teachers than those guys.

And again, I'd urge you to read the recent article by Tom Matthews - he covered some ground that virtually nobody talks about. I thought it was a really excellent job on the region.


Thanks just ordered it. And i did read TM's piece on Rioja and the retro tasting at Rekondo etc. Great article indeed one of the best by WS.


"The hardest thing to attain ... is the appreciation of difference without insisting on superiority" George Saintsbury
 
Posts: 1693 | Location: DC Suburbs, Potomac MD. | Registered: Dec 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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