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I am about to embark upon a trip to Bordeaux. I have never been. As a result, I am reading as much as I can about the region. I am blown away by it's size. I imagined it as a boutique wine district, given it's price and reputation for quality. I associate high quality with low production, customized articles that receive the attention of a master. These guys are as big or bigger than a lot of the wine producers in the market. Margaux produces 33,300 case annually according to Bettane & Desseauve "Le Grand Guide des Vins de France 2008". Caymus, produces 54,000 cases annually. That's total production, includes Margaux Pavillon Rouge, Caymus HSS, regular Caymus, Sauvignon Blanc, and whatever else they each may produce. As for the actual botteling of Château Margaux, production is around 10K-15K from what I can find. Caymus Hillside Select is 8K or so, from what I read. Bordeaux is as good as CA wine, and some would say better (I'm sure there are many opinions on this point, but I am not trying to argue one vs the other for this discussion). Scores are Scores in a mathematical world, so all things being equal, both regions have wines that score 95-100. Nonetheless, Bordeaux commands as high a price as anywhere. Compare Burgundy, very small production. Consider california, smaller production levels for many of the higher scored wines(I am not implying that higher scores mean better wine or that great wines sometimes get low scores, I'm just offering an example). Screaming Eagle is one of the few wines that sells for prices similar to top Bordeaux. Very low production. Insignia, while high priced, is not nearly as high priced as top Bordeaux. I don't know anything about Italy, so no comment on them. Compare Screaming Eagle prices and Margaux prices at auction, both are pretty high. But the production is much higher for 1er cru's. How can the bordolais produce such a high quality product on such a large scale? Not only that, how do they create such a global demand to command the rice they do. Insignia could raise their price to $1000 a bottle, but who would buy it? The global demand isn't high enough. Margaux some how does it. It defies my understanding of the artistry of making wine. Is their secret blending? Is it the weather and the soil? Or have they perfected wine making so well that they can perform as well or better than everyone else, AND do it on a massive scale? Or is it branding, is their name so old and recognized that with means, will buy it, good or bad?
The French make great wine. I don't attest to being an expert. I have had Margaux only once, but I thought it was fantastic. On top of that, it was 40 years old when I drank it. Their wines last, evolve, change, and live. Would you rather pay $1000 for a bottle of California wine that might be dead in 10-15 years, or one that is just warming up at that age? That answer may differ upon your age or health, but in general, I would rather put my money on a wine that I can trust. Now most people would not pay $1000 for a bottle of anything. Despite this, Margaux seems to be doing pretty well selling it's wine. Lots of people are buying it. The bordelais are making a fundamentally different product than what is made in the United States. Is it technique, or is it real-estate? This message has been edited. Last edited by: Roentgen Ray, |
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You got a lot of info in there and I’m not sure what is a question and what is a comment. Margaux is at the status it is and can command such a price despite high production volumes versus the CA cults because of history and track record IMO. Marguax has been producing great wines for over 100 years vs. 20 years for SE (guess)? Not to mention being branded as a “first growth” brings an element of status which lends itself to collecting. In addition, Marguax has more of a worldwide demand versus the CA cults were demand is primarily driven in the US.
“What is the soup du jour?"...It’s the soup of the day..."Mmmm, that sounds good, I’ll have that” - Lloyd Christmas |
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The way you phrased that, no doubt caused some Francophiles out there to blow a gasket. Bravo! 
I disagree. Wine critics, professional and otherwise, are routinely fooled when they attempt to distinguish French-made wines from California-made wines from the same varietals in blind tastings. Most famous example is the Judgment of Paris. I agree with GlennK that the top Bordeaux have more worldwide demand than the top California wines because the top Bordeaux have been around for centuries and have incomparable cachet. Excluding members of wine forums, who has heard of Screaming Eagle? 1% of the population or less? Chateau Lafite-Rothschild? You get the idea. Bon voyage and please post your notes on the trip! |
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Have fun on the trip........Check out Palmer for sure.
Checked! |
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Yep, hit the nail on the head. Reputation, reputation, reputation. Creates and keeps interest and loyalty. -IB PSA: Please report gratuitous trolling/flaming immediately (little triangle at bottom right). |
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When I stated that the French wines are fundamentally different, I am referring to their life in the bottle. Seems that they tend to take longer to open up, and once they do, have a longer shelf-life, so to speak. |
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Thanks for the recommendation. So far I am getting more no's and non-replies to my e-mails while I try to book visits. |
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Write your emails in French.  |
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I do. I'll just keep trying. I think harvest is underway now, so places are going to be a little slower with replies. My French is a bit choppy, but understandable and grammatically close. Its hard to know where to put the en, a, au and those sort of words, but otherwise my e-mails are decent. Maybe I will try calling? |
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It's about history and world demand. They've been making wines in that region for far longer than the entire history of the United States, let alone California. Even I've had dry red wines from bordeaux that are older than the first Napa vintage (and I don't have that much experience). Because of their history and their track record world demand is such that they are able to produce thousands of cases of wine each vintage and still command high prices.
RR- your statement about California shows a bit of an American-centric attitude, n'est-ce pas? We can argue for hours about the merits of young vs old wine, but I think most would agree that the modern style (i.e. what first came out of Napa) is meant to 'wow' you when they're young, whereas for centuries the French have been making wines that are meant to taste better when they're old. (or maybe it just happened that way for both Cali and Bdx?) Good luck, and enjoy. I've never been to Bordeaux, but I'll get there someday. When I do it'll be on an organized tour since I reckon that's the best way to get into the chateaux that I really want to see. If they're havesting now I suspect you won't get a warm welcome everywhere, but I'm sure you'll find enough vignerons who will welcome you and teach you a thing or two about French wine-making. ******* This IS next year! |
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Randy Dunn might disagree. |
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Along with the folks at Ridge, Heitz, Montelena, Caymus, Phelps, Rubicon, Mondavi, BV...
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It does seem that people are still enjoying some of the older Napa wines. My best understanding is that the vinification methods were different then than now. As mentioned above, CA is all about wow, and not about evolution and growth in the bottle. I would love to try a 1980s Caymus or an older Montelena. Maybe CA can make wines that last ages, but they won't do it until it is marketable. It seems they fill a nitch. Bordeaux, Burgundy, they are established as wines that are constructed in a way that they can evolve over time and not fall apart. Maybe Cal. could too, but that market is taken and they can more easily compete in an instant, or at least short term, 1-9 years, gratification type wine. Both are really good in their own right. I have been buying more Cali wine, Schrader, Realm, Larkmead, but none of the big guns yet. Pesonal tastes change, so it's good to have choices. |
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RR- Let me know when you visit Argentina/Chile. I am fluent in Castellano/Spanish. "It's easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stockmarket beat, but the man worth-while, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat." -Judge Smails |
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YOU, my friend, should be going with us to Spain next year. First stop: Alvaro Palacios. |
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We were in Bordeaux last year, a few tips that might help. Left Bank, take route D2 from Bordeaux all the way to St. Estephe. You'll see all the big boys. Right Bank, head to St. Emilion, drive around that area and you'll see all the Right bank big guns and a few miles up the road you are in Pomerol. I'd spend a couple days at least in each location. If you stay in Bordeaux the driving will take some fun out of it, I'd recommend stating on the Right Bank and then moving to the Left Bank. If you want some tours, send some emails to the Chateau's with your dates and request a time. Also, request an english speaking tour guide.
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I don't think Dunn has changed much, for example, but a significant portion of Napa has changed around him. And, of course, changes with regard to vinification beg the question of whether today's Bordeaux will age comparably to how they've performed in the past (good years). I don't have the answer, but it's certainly food for thought... |
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When are you going? My translation services can be purchased for a nominal fee. "It's easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stockmarket beat, but the man worth-while, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat." -Judge Smails |
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Fee?!  W+A and I, for sure will be in Spain around May. Before or after the Italian offline in Tuscany. Don't you keep up with the offline threads, man? It was an invite.....   |
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Wow, you are up late tonight. I have read a few posts regarding your trip, but that was some time ago. Spain and Italy sound absolutely wonderful, and I can't imagine two better traveling companions for sharing, and discussing, countless bottles of great wine. "It's easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stockmarket beat, but the man worth-while, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat." -Judge Smails |
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The trip is still in the planning stages, behind the scenes. The thread's gone quiet but certainly hasn't died. The focus is on Italy for most, but we'll be in Spain for the 'pre game'. You're welcome to join us, gig. |
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INDEED!  |
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