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if we get enuf quotes and replies, we can get a classic hourglass effect!!!
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(Digging for my invitation, but all I find are the last copy of Wine Spectator I got in the mail, the login info for the website, the credit card statement where I paid for both, and the realization that I help pay to support this board.) So yes, to those that said I'm not welcome here, well gee, you wonder why some of us haven't posted around more. I'd posted once before, but the few times I looked around since it just didn't seem like that enjoyable of a place, which is sad really. Perhaps I just hit the wrong threads at the wrong times, certainly a possibility. It's just wine. There's no need to be rude, unwelcoming about it, or otherwise take a superior attitude. I'm a young collector and enthusiast, and the kind of exclusivity that I've seen from a few here is where the term 'wine snob' comes from. I haven't seen it from everyone, and I can't say it hasn't occasionally reared it's head on the WLTV forums, but here it's seemed at it's worse. That also includes the reaction to GV I've seen. For instance, calling him a buffoon (and yes, THAT's how you spell it Vt2it). But hey, you're entitled to that opinion. I like the analogy to the head of a car company, but even that I think wouldn't totally discount their point of view. If they were someone brought in for their experience as a CEO rather than their auto knowledge, then that speaks to their credibility when talking about cars. If it's a CEO who's spent their professional life in the auto industry with exposure to numerous brands and models from all over the world, then their experience and knowledge base can't be discounted. Much the same with Gary. He's spent his entire professional life (which started at a young age) in the wine industry, tasting, comparing, buying, traveling, learning about, and yes selling wines from a myriad of producers and countries. I like Montsant's question: "If Gary V stopped reviewing any wines sold by WL, would he then magically become a critic??" Another question, if Wine Spectator sold wine, would the editors still be critics? And yeah, a DFW get together could be a lot of fun. Nice thing about wine is it's a good medium for meeting new people.
Jim
That's, RedLoverJim to you
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| Posts: 34 | Location: Fort Worth, TX | Registered: Mar 14, 2007 | |
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quote: Originally posted by SS Chris:
who's Gary?
He sells wrist bands.
Jim
That's, RedLoverJim to you
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| Posts: 34 | Location: Fort Worth, TX | Registered: Mar 14, 2007 | |
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quote: Originally posted by RedLoverJim: So yes, to those that said I'm not welcome here, well gee, you wonder why some of us haven't posted around more. I'd posted once before, but the few times I looked around since it just didn't seem like that enjoyable of a place, which is sad really. I hope you can find a place you like more. It's just wine. There's no need to be rude, unwelcoming about it, or otherwise take a superior attitude. I'm a young collector and enthusiast, and the kind of exclusivity that I've seen from a few here is where the term 'wine snob' comes from. I haven't seen it from everyone, and I can't say it hasn't occasionally reared it's head on the WLTV forums, but here it's seemed at it's its worse worst. I hope you can find a place you like more.That also includes the reaction to GV I've seen. For instance, calling him a buffoon (and yes, THAT's how you spell it Vt2it). You're correcting him?  I like Montsant's question: "If Gary V stopped reviewing any wines sold by WL, would he then magically become a critic??" It's an invalid rhetorical question with the use of the word "magically." It's not a question, despite the question marks. It's a statement.Another question, if Wine Spectator sold wine, would the editors still be critics? No. They'd be salesmen like Gary. Not critics.And yeah, a DFW get together could be a lot of fun. Nice thing about wine is it's a good medium for meeting new people. How fortunate for the locals.
Just one more sip.
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quote: Originally posted by RedLoverJim:
(Digging for my invitation, but all I find are the last copy of Wine Spectator I got in the mail, the login info for the website, the credit card statement where I paid for both, and the realization that I help pay to support this board.)
So yes, to those that said I'm not welcome here, well gee, you wonder why some of us haven't posted around more. I'd posted once before, but the few times I looked around since it just didn't seem like that enjoyable of a place, which is sad really. Perhaps I just hit the wrong threads at the wrong times, certainly a possibility.
It's just wine. There's no need to be rude, unwelcoming about it, or otherwise take a superior attitude. I'm a young collector and enthusiast, and the kind of exclusivity that I've seen from a few here is where the term 'wine snob' comes from. I haven't seen it from everyone, and I can't say it hasn't occasionally reared it's head on the WLTV forums, but here it's seemed at it's worse.
That also includes the reaction to GV I've seen. For instance, calling him a buffoon (and yes, THAT's how you spell it Vt2it). But hey, you're entitled to that opinion.
I like the analogy to the head of a car company, but even that I think wouldn't totally discount their point of view. If they were someone brought in for their experience as a CEO rather than their auto knowledge, then that speaks to their credibility when talking about cars. If it's a CEO who's spent their professional life in the auto industry with exposure to numerous brands and models from all over the world, then their experience and knowledge base can't be discounted.
Much the same with Gary. He's spent his entire professional life (which started at a young age) in the wine industry, tasting, comparing, buying, traveling, learning about, and yes selling wines from a myriad of producers and countries.
I like Montsant's question: "If Gary V stopped reviewing any wines sold by WL, would he then magically become a critic??"
Another question, if Wine Spectator sold wine, would the editors still be critics?
And yeah, a DFW get together could be a lot of fun. Nice thing about wine is it's a good medium for meeting new people.
Jim you are more than welcome to post here. Stick around, you might like it. This is not the first time that criticism or GV has resulted in a collection of self described Vaniacs to come rush to his defense and disappear shortly thereafter. Some (like Brandon M) stick around and post here on occasion. If your sole purpose is to group post on Gary's defense, then you have little to offer. Respectfully, we have already beat the "critic" thing to death. Nothing you say here will change my opinion and nothing I post will change yours. You seem like a thoughtful guy and I appreciate your tone. Like I indicated earlier, perhaps we should just agree to disagree and move on. Cheers, Scott aka Red guy
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"Sometimes when I reflect back on all the wine I drink I feel shame. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the vineyards and all of their hopes and dreams . If I didn't drink this wine, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, 'It is better that I drink this wine and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
- Jack Handy
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| Posts: 1112 | Location: San Diego | Registered: Jan 17, 2006 | |
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OK, Board-O has the best post of this thread again!
Hey is for Horses.
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| Posts: 1259 | Location: Edmonton | Registered: Feb 06, 2007 | |
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Is there a prize?
Just one more sip.
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quote: Originally posted by Board-O:
Is there a prize?
To share any bottle from my cellar if you ever make it to Edmonton.
Hey is for Horses.
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| Posts: 1259 | Location: Edmonton | Registered: Feb 06, 2007 | |
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And almost any of mine in NY
Just one more sip.
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Nice to have a lapdog isn't it?
-IB
"Wine only turns into alcohol if you let it sit."---Lindsay Bluth
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| Posts: 6250 | Location: Naptown | Registered: Nov 24, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by indybob:
Nice to have a lapdog isn't it?
Indy, you should have told me about your website earlier.  And Indy the offer of any bottle from my cellar is extended to you as-well.
Hey is for Horses.
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| Posts: 1259 | Location: Edmonton | Registered: Feb 06, 2007 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Cellar_Fiend: quote: Originally posted by indybob:
Nice to have a lapdog isn't it?
Indy, you should have told me about your website earlier.
The ridiculous part is you think that's an insult.  Not sure when I'll be up in Edmonton, but I'll keep it in mind.
-IB
"Wine only turns into alcohol if you let it sit."---Lindsay Bluth
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| Posts: 6250 | Location: Naptown | Registered: Nov 24, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by indybob: quote: Originally posted by Cellar_Fiend: quote: Originally posted by indybob:
Nice to have a lapdog isn't it?
Indy, you should have told me about your website earlier.
The ridiculous part is you think that's an insult. Not sure when I'll be up in Edmonton, but I'll keep it in mind.
The ridiculous part is you think that i'm serious.
Hey is for Horses.
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| Posts: 1259 | Location: Edmonton | Registered: Feb 06, 2007 | |
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Not about the wine of course?
-IB
"Wine only turns into alcohol if you let it sit."---Lindsay Bluth
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| Posts: 6250 | Location: Naptown | Registered: Nov 24, 2006 | |
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Actually BO, I meant to say "worse", not "at its worst". But again, I hope it has been isolated, as I've enjoyed talking with some here. And yes, I was correcting him, because I always find it ironic and entertaining when words like buffoon are misspelled, even when it's my fat fingering of the keyboard. I even laughed in Hangover when Rain Man was called a ritard, despite my dislike of the word. I also find unfortunate how your "How fortunate for the locals" comment supported my earlier statements. I was responding sincerely to a general offer and suggestion, and it's met with snideness. The only reason I asked about the theoretical situation of WS selling wine, is that the Wall Street Journal both has wine critics contributing to their publication and it sells wine, so I was curious in the vein of this discussion, what category they fell into. A valid question, as was the question of GV not reviewing a WL stocked wine. Enjoying the good courteous discussions! Spirited debate is good fun, even if it does lead no where, especially if it leads to sharing a good bottle of wine.
Jim
That's, RedLoverJim to you
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| Posts: 34 | Location: Fort Worth, TX | Registered: Mar 14, 2007 | |
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Just a few remarks...I missed a lot in 72 hours... 1) Obviously, if you are retailing wine and then reviewing it, there is an inherent bias in that, no different than a wine critic who reviews his/her's best friend's wines, who is an importer 2) Julius should have said he works at WL. Always disclose who you are. 3) Wine Spectator critics review wines BLIND. I need to hear a GOOD explanation of how one can be biased if reviewing ones BLIND 4) If Gary V did all of his tastings BLIND, comparing wines he sold vs. wines he did not sell, then maybe that would dispell all of this talk 5) The comment about Gary NEVER reviewing a wine sold at WL with more than 5 cases available was REFUTED by GARY HIMSELF, on the Wine Berserkers thread of the same topic. I asked for an explanation...but Gary is passed out from the Jets victory. 6) Whether Gary is involved in the day to day operations of WL, he still makes money as owner of that store. Even if he defers a salary, assuming they are profitable, he pays taxes on that income. I am not trying to ruffle feathers. As some here know, Gary and I are ITB "friends." We have a very good relationship and I have tremendous respect for what he has done. That being said, to think there is no bias in a wine retailer reviewing wines, is crazy. No one is calling Gary a crook for what he is doing, but let's call a spade a spade here. James Molesworth reviews wines for a living. Wines that he has no financial interest in. Gary can never make that claim. Even if he is not selling the wine the day the show airs, maybe, with a positive review, WL carries the wine the one month later. Just an example... Let's not make mountains out of molehills, people.
Daniel Posner
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| Posts: 199 | Location: New York | Registered: May 06, 2002 | |
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quote: Originally posted by g-man: quote: Originally posted by Brandon M:
Could someone please define "Wine Critic" for me. I'm confused.
Anton Ego from ratatouille. "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. ...
Excellent quote... I hope you didn't quote that from memory, though. |
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| Posts: 3183 | Location: Alexandria, VA, USA | Registered: Oct 29, 2003 | |
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quote: Originally posted by RedLoverJim:
I'm a young collector and enthusiast, and the kind of exclusivity that I've seen from a few here is where the term 'wine snob' comes from.
You haven't spent much time on ebob, have you RedLoverJim? 
Romeo and Juliet are together in eternity....
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| Posts: 6183 | Location: Elk Grove, CA, USA | Registered: Dec 06, 2003 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Dom'n'Vin'sDad: quote: Originally posted by RedLoverJim:
I'm a young collector and enthusiast, and the kind of exclusivity that I've seen from a few here is where the term 'wine snob' comes from.
You haven't spent much time on ebob, have you RedLoverJim?
http://scmwine.info
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| Posts: 6600 | Location: Santa Clara Valley AVA | Registered: Jul 02, 2004 | |
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quote: Originally posted by NY Retailer:
Just a few remarks...I missed a lot in 72 hours...
1) Obviously, if you are retailing wine and then reviewing it, there is an inherent bias in that, no different than a wine critic who reviews his/her's best friend's wines, who is an importer
2) Julius should have said he works at WL. Always disclose who you are.
3) Wine Spectator critics review wines BLIND. I need to hear a GOOD explanation of how one can be biased if reviewing ones BLIND
4) If Gary V did all of his tastings BLIND, comparing wines he sold vs. wines he did not sell, then maybe that would dispell all of this talk
5) The comment about Gary NEVER reviewing a wine sold at WL with more than 5 cases available was REFUTED by GARY HIMSELF, on the Wine Berserkers thread of the same topic. I asked for an explanation...but Gary is passed out from the Jets victory.
6) Whether Gary is involved in the day to day operations of WL, he still makes money as owner of that store. Even if he defers a salary, assuming they are profitable, he pays taxes on that income.
I am not trying to ruffle feathers. As some here know, Gary and I are ITB "friends." We have a very good relationship and I have tremendous respect for what he has done.
That being said, to think there is no bias in a wine retailer reviewing wines, is crazy. No one is calling Gary a crook for what he is doing, but let's call a spade a spade here.
James Molesworth reviews wines for a living. Wines that he has no financial interest in. Gary can never make that claim. Even if he is not selling the wine the day the show airs, maybe, with a positive review, WL carries the wine the one month later. Just an example...
Let's not make mountains out of molehills, people.
No comment on the GaryV stuff. But commenting on some of your points. 1. ROFL !! That person sound oddly familiar 2. Full Disclosure --> I am a Gundam |
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| Posts: 200 | Location: Vancouver, BC | Registered: Jun 19, 2009 | |
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Red-guy has explained the wine critic issue definitively, and everyone else is merely trying to have the last word attempting to argue that their definition of " trusted/reliable/respected wine critic" should be the definition of "wine critic." As for the bias issue, I agree with Dan Posner, save that I don't place the unconditional trust in blind tasting he does. I can pick out certain wines or at least wineries blind, and these guys better be able to do better. I do think WS does the most to avoid bias in their reviews, but from my perspective as a litigation attorney a particular obseration has as much to do with the observer as the facts in question. Another word for bias is point of view, and it pervades every sense people have, sometimes in obvious scandalous ways, but more often in subtle but nonetheless affective ways. As such, I am a thinking human being, and buying wine is not even local politics, so I figure I filter a wine reviewers comments well enough. In that vane, I don't like Gary's schtick, but I do like his reviews. Either way, I cannot think of the last time I bought a wine solely on a review (i.e. no prior experience with the producer, winemaker, or at least the appellation/vintage). Not Gary V., not Jay Miller, not RP, and not even Tanzer, JS or JM, whom are my three favorite independent, professional, wine critics. *** Finally, I'm putting the over-under for this thread at 13 pages. I'm also putting the over-under for when we next have a Gary V thread at 5.5 months. I want to say my will will be strong and I won't post on that thread, but I'm putting the over-under for my post count at 4.
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Tim Burnett
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| Posts: 343 | Location: Wisconsin | Registered: Apr 19, 2007 | |
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WSJ this today showed an article about hackers and tweeter. Of course they listed GV as a " critic" three of four times.
__________________
Ed Bowers
Live simply, Laugh often, Wine a lot!!!
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| Posts: 2811 | Location: Palm Beach Gardens FL | Registered: Nov 05, 2001 | |
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