People have a right to not like Gary's "schtick"...and a right to not agree w/ his palate. What I don't get is the sentiment, repeated many times in this thread, that Gary's JUST a wine saleslman...ONLY there to sell wine....and THAT is why you can't trust his scores. The factual data simply does not support this claim...... simply he pans more wines than he picks. That's right....more than 50% of the wines are PANNED. Further, I've heard him say things like, "This is the #1 selling <insert varietal> @ Wine Library, and I'm telling you...never buy this again!! STOP!!".

So simply, I think you have both things going on....Gary sells wine, but he also rates wine.....does he rate wine honestly....I thinnk so.......the "facts" are undeniable.

Another little fact, every review that he does on WLTV is entered into a Spreadsheet that shows up on the WLTV site. All of those reveiws and scores also download automatically to the WL website as well for each individual wine. I know...."that PROVES that he's just there to sell the wine". But no, you would be wrong....it's not just the RECS, but ALL of the reviews are downloaded......all of the pans, known as (and you WS guys will go off the deep-end here) VaynerPAZZZ's. Here's the point.....name ONE wine retailer that publicly posts negative reviews for the wines they're selling. What other retailer posts something, from the staff, saying...essentially...."don't buy this wine."? Well, I'll save you the time......not one retailer does this. And the point is that Gary is taking the wearing of the two hats seriously. If he were doing WLTV soley to sell wine, he wouldn't post all of the negative reviews.

So, don't like him or his terms or his wristbands, but enough w/ just summarily dismissing him as "He just sells wine". The facts just don't support this.

With that being said, I don't think anyone can arugue that WS's blind tasting methodolgy is the best.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SS Chris,

Chris,

I think the point that some were making here is that Wine Library will still sell plenty of the wines Gary pans to its walk in customers who didn't see him pan the wine.

Also, panning wines is necessary for his show and probably increases online wine sales for Wine Library. If Gary never panned a wine, no one would trust him. By panning wines, GV has the appearance of objectivity. Thus, folks are more likely to trust a good score from GV and buy lots of the wine he recommends on the show.

So, Gary gets the best of both worlds. He gets purchases from his regular walk in folks who don't realize that he just scored certain popular wines poorly, and he gets huge online sales from folks who think he is completely objective about a wine he rates 94 points on the show.

I don't know Gary and he may be completely objective, but I don't think it is correct to suggest that panning a wine to online customers shows objectivity. I'm sure he's not taking financial hits by doing WLTV.

FGV

quote:

With that being said, I don't think anyone can arugue that WS's blind tasting methodolgy is the best.

How can any form of judging - where you're drinking tons of wine at once - be the best?

It's better than not tasting blind. Of the tasters mentioned, the WS's method clearly is the best.

quote:

Originally posted by SS Chris:
People have a right to not like Gary's "schtick"...and a right to not agree w/ his palate. What I don't get is the sentiment, repeated many times in this thread, that Gary's JUST a wine saleslman...ONLY there to sell wine....and THAT is why you can't trust his scores. The factual data simply does not support this claim...... simply he pans more wines than he picks. That's right....more than 50% of the wines are PANNED. Further, I've heard him say things like, "This is the #1 selling <insert varietal> @ Wine Library, and I'm telling you...never buy this again!! STOP!!".

So simply, I think you have both things going on....Gary sells wine, but he also rates wine.....does he rate wine honestly....I thinnk so.......the "facts" are undeniable.

Another little fact, every review that he does on WLTV is entered into a Spreadsheet that shows up on the WLTV site. All of those reveiws and scores also download automatically to the WL website as well for each individual wine. I know...."that PROVES that he's just there to sell the wine". But no, you would be wrong....it's not just the RECS, but ALL of the reviews are downloaded......all of the pans, known as (and you WS guys will go off the deep-end here) VaynerPAZZZ's. Here's the point.....name ONE wine retailer that publicly posts negative reviews for the wines they're selling. What other retailer posts something, from the staff, saying...essentially...."don't buy this wine."? Well, I'll save you the time......not one retailer does this. And the point is that Gary is taking the wearing of the two hats seriously. If he were doing WLTV soley to sell wine, he wouldn't post all of the negative reviews.

So, don't like him or his terms or his wristbands, but enough w/ just summarily dismissing him as "He just sells wine". The facts just don't support this.

With that being said, I don't think anyone can arugue that WS's blind tasting methodolgy is the best.

IA, I understand that many don't utilize online, BUT....many do. And this group who shop online is huge compared to folks who regularly watdch WLTV episodes. More than 50% of WL's total revenue of $60+ million in revenues is done via online ordering. So the fact that Gary has panned close to 700 wines AND publishes that panning on his site should not be minimized. Again, please find me one Wine retailer that publicly pans the wines they sell on their website.

I would also point out that many "walk-in" customers (like me) purchase many wines online....and then augment their online purchases when they get there.

But you're correct that not everybody see those negative reviews.....but to minimize it seems "not objective" to me.

I think that if you watch the show w/ any regularity, most would conclude that he's being honest. Another example, there have been times when Gary discloses, prior to tasting the wine, that he's very friendly with the particular winemaker....and he then pans the wine.....you can see the pain on Gary's face as he does this.

I'll also direct folks to an episode (this is early WLTV, BEFORE much of the national attention Gary's received) where Gary addresses this question directly. It won't convince all of you, but thought some may be interested in hearing his thoughts. The backdrop is that, a few episodes earlier, Gary had scored the 2003 Corte Riva Merlot quite highly....and there were questions posted in the "comments" section about Gary scoring it high solely to sell the wine.

http://tv.winelibrary.com/2006/09/27/the-wine-worlds-bi...e-brands-episode-99/

Finally, if it ends up that Gary is objective....and that this objectivity ends up selling more wine for him overall, then I say, "all the power to him". It just seems that things like "panning more wines than he recommends" (not just a few)....and posting the close to 700 pans on his WL site is being minimized. If these rather significant pieces of information don't impress you at all, then I don't think there's anything I or anyone can say to convince you to at least reconsider.

quote:

Originally posted by -Cp:

quote:

With that being said, I don't think anyone can arugue that WS's blind tasting methodolgy is the best.

How can any form of judging - where you're drinking tons of wine at once - be the best?

Wow....even this part of my post is disputed.....this is a tough board!

and, to answer your question...because blind is, undeniably, the most objective format.

Chris,

With due regard, you actually made my point.

It very well may be that WL's internet sales are soaring b/c GV pans certain wines thereby giving him the appearance of objectivity with regard to the wines he scores highly. This leads to trust and trust leads to sales from the VaynerNation.

My point was really that simple.

Gary appears to be a nice guy, and very well may be objective, but I think you are a bit naive re the business end of things.

But, people are drinking wine and talking about it, so it's a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Senator:
But how do you account for the wines that he sells where he says something like, "RP gave this one a '92' and I think he totally missed it. I'm giving this one a major pass."?

That’s easy, if RP gave it a 92 it will sell out no matter what Gary says.

quote:

Originally posted by tanglenet:

quote:

Originally posted by Poquelin:

quote:

Originally posted by tanglenet: ...Vaynerchuck sells wine. Although he may review wines he does not sell, he still sells wine. He represents himself, his shop and people who want to sell you wine. He's very successful at it, but I would not confuse the difference between the two.

Being the wine director of a huge wine-selling business actually places Gary V. in an ideal situation to critique wines: he has his pick of an enormous inventory to taste.

Personally I have never detected the least prejudice in GV's ratings. I really believe he tells it like it is, whether his company carries the wine or not.

Whatever you may think of his personality or style, I think he is totally unbiased.

Do you feel the same way about Wilfred Wong at BEVMO?

I don't remember Wong giving a pazzzzzzzz to any of the wines he's writes about. Gary will do this for wines very low rated or even for high rated but too high priced wines.

quote:

Originally posted by SS Chris:
People have a right to not like Gary's "schtick"...and a right to not agree w/ his palate. What I don't get is the sentiment, repeated many times in this thread, that Gary's JUST a wine saleslman...ONLY there to sell wine....and THAT is why you can't trust his scores. The factual data simply does not support this claim...... simply he pans more wines than he picks. That's right....more than 50% of the wines are PANNED. Further, I've heard him say things like, "This is the #1 selling <insert varietal> @ Wine Library, and I'm telling you...never buy this again!! STOP!!".

So simply, I think you have both things going on....Gary sells wine, but he also rates wine.....does he rate wine honestly....I thinnk so.......the "facts" are undeniable.

Another little fact, every review that he does on WLTV is entered into a Spreadsheet that shows up on the WLTV site. All of those reveiws and scores also download automatically to the WL website as well for each individual wine. I know...."that PROVES that he's just there to sell the wine". But no, you would be wrong....it's not just the RECS, but ALL of the reviews are downloaded......all of the pans, known as (and you WS guys will go off the deep-end here) VaynerPAZZZ's. Here's the point.....name ONE wine retailer that publicly posts negative reviews for the wines they're selling. What other retailer posts something, from the staff, saying...essentially...."don't buy this wine."? Well, I'll save you the time......not one retailer does this. And the point is that Gary is taking the wearing of the two hats seriously. If he were doing WLTV soley to sell wine, he wouldn't post all of the negative reviews.

So, don't like him or his terms or his wristbands, but enough w/ just summarily dismissing him as "He just sells wine". The facts just don't support this.

With that being said, I don't think anyone can arugue that WS's blind tasting methodolgy is the best.

What he said.

I like Gary V very much. I find it a refreshing change to hear wine talked about in such a down to earth manner. He is constantly telling people it's NOT about ratings and that they should make up their own mind. A great example for me is that I've bought about 10 of the wines he's recommended and only liked about 2 of them. I now have a comparison basis to his reviews. I sure Gary would say "right on" on this. He is not trying to be a guru.

quote:

Originally posted by MorBorDo:

quote:

Personally I have never detected the least prejudice in GV's ratings. I really believe he tells it like it is, whether his company carries the wine or not.

OK, one more time, it is quite possible that Gary V posseses a world class palate and renders entirely unbiased opinions. I spoke merely to the clear appearance of, are you ready, "conflict of interest". I think GV is the greatest cheerleader of wineolgy around. People love his style and he attracts a huge following. That is a good thing! He destroys the presumption that to enjoy fine wines you have to be white, partially bald, and speak with a British accent. I love watching Gary. I just do not believe as much in his scores and reviews as I do in Mr. Parker or Mr. Suckling.

Very well said. I agree 100%

quote:

Originally posted by Instant Access:
Chris,

With due regard, you actually made my point.

It very well may be that WL's internet sales are soaring b/c GV pans certain wines thereby giving him the appearance of objectivity with regard to the wines he scores highly. This leads to trust and trust leads to sales from the VaynerNation.

My point was really that simple.

Gary appears to be a nice guy, and very well may be objective, but I think you are a bit naive re the business end of things.

But, people are drinking wine and talking about it, so it's a good thing.

I've been involved w/ business for 25 years....but I think we seem to be agreeing. The only point I was responding to was whether Gary is objective.....again, if that objectivity sells more wine, that's OK with me. What would not be OK is if he wasn't objective (as objective as one can be when not tasting blindly).

To each their own. I would, however, suggest that anyone who thinks he is super annoying go back and watch the Verite Episode (#1) and see how much has changed in two years. It's hillarious to see Gary uptight and nervous.

Personally, I think the worst part of WLTV is that stupid spread sheet.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr Cabernet:

quote:

Originally posted by SS Chris:
People have a right to not like Gary's "schtick"...and a right to not agree w/ his palate. What I don't get is the sentiment, repeated many times in this thread, that Gary's JUST a wine saleslman...ONLY there to sell wine....and THAT is why you can't trust his scores. The factual data simply does not support this claim...... simply he pans more wines than he picks. That's right....more than 50% of the wines are PANNED. Further, I've heard him say things like, "This is the #1 selling <insert varietal> @ Wine Library, and I'm telling you...never buy this again!! STOP!!".

So simply, I think you have both things going on....Gary sells wine, but he also rates wine.....does he rate wine honestly....I thinnk so.......the "facts" are undeniable.

Another little fact, every review that he does on WLTV is entered into a Spreadsheet that shows up on the WLTV site. All of those reveiws and scores also download automatically to the WL website as well for each individual wine. I know...."that PROVES that he's just there to sell the wine". But no, you would be wrong....it's not just the RECS, but ALL of the reviews are downloaded......all of the pans, known as (and you WS guys will go off the deep-end here) VaynerPAZZZ's. Here's the point.....name ONE wine retailer that publicly posts negative reviews for the wines they're selling. What other retailer posts something, from the staff, saying...essentially...."don't buy this wine."? Well, I'll save you the time......not one retailer does this. And the point is that Gary is taking the wearing of the two hats seriously. If he were doing WLTV soley to sell wine, he wouldn't post all of the negative reviews.

So, don't like him or his terms or his wristbands, but enough w/ just summarily dismissing him as "He just sells wine". The facts just don't support this.

With that being said, I don't think anyone can arugue that WS's blind tasting methodolgy is the best.

What he said.

I like Gary V very much. I find it a refreshing change to hear wine talked about in such a down to earth manner. He is constantly telling people it's NOT about ratings and that they should make up their own mind. A great example for me is that I've bought about 10 of the wines he's recommended and only liked about 2 of them. I now have a comparison basis to his reviews. I sure Gary would say "right on" on this. He is not trying to be a guru.

Definitely Vaynerchuck... Parker values some aspects in wine that I do not (what I would call overextracted fruit bombs), and while Gary might appreciate them as well... His wine reviews comment on style preferences and who might like the wine more than others... rather than some absolute good or bad rating from Parker. Parkers reviews are harder for me to decipher in that way, so I've just come not to trust his scores in many regions.

And though he's in sales, I've never been disappointed in a Gary recommended/scored wine - noting that I'll skip some b/c the style doesn't sound my speed.

Also, I'll say that Gary seems to value a broader range of styles than Parker. (It seems to me.)

Maybe it's my age, but it seems that people younger than me have been brought up on slick advertising and free web content and can no longer differentiate between a sales pitch (GV) and information you pay for (RP)(perhaps they don't pay for it, leads to the confusion).

GV peddles wine. He is not a critic. He is a salesman. He could be selling cars, but he's selling wine. You may find him entertaining, animated and knowledgable, but he's just selling product. Don't confuse the two.

quote:

Maybe it's my age, but it seems that people younger than me have been brought up on slick advertising and free web content and can no longer differentiate between a sales pitch (GV) and information you pay for (RP)(perhaps they don't pay for it, leads to the confusion).

GV peddles wine. He is not a critic. He is a salesman. He could be selling cars, but he's selling wine. You may find him entertaining, animated and knowledgable, but he's just selling product. Don't confuse the two.

"When I drink, I think; and when I think, I drink." Francois Rabelais

The same schtick goes for B-21 shop in Tampa. The salesmen rate wines, but you can never cross orient their taste notes & ratings to a viable base such as WS or RMP.

Strickly salesmenship. If some one says is good, most folks will blindly follow along.

quote:

Originally posted by tanglenet:
Maybe it's my age, but it seems that people younger than me have been brought up on slick advertising and free web content and can no longer differentiate between a sales pitch (GV) and information you pay for (RP)(perhaps they don't pay for it, leads to the confusion).

GV peddles wine. He is not a critic. He is a salesman. He could be selling cars, but he's selling wine. You may find him entertaining, animated and knowledgable, but he's just selling product. Don't confuse the two.

If he's not a critic, why does someone respected as well as Eric Levine put his scores on CTs list? Why does Gary taste Kosta Browne? I get that people think he's just a business man, and to some degree he is, but it does not simply stop at being a wine salesman. He's a lot more than that.

Brandon,

I posted earlier in this thread and, to a large extent, I defended Gary. I think that Gary has been good for wine appreciation, has brought a lot of positive attention to wine, and has broadened wine drinkers in getting them to try new things. Tanglenet was merely stating an opinion and it happens to be an opinion that I agree with. Gary is not a critic in the truest sense of the word. Sure, he evaluates wines but what wine drinker doesn't? If Gary is critic then everybody that drinks wine and forms an opinion of the wine is a critic. I do not care that Gary occasionally evaluates wines that he does not carry, that does not make him a wine critic and do not become deluded into thinking that he is one.

As far as Eric carrying Gary's scores on CT, there was probably some sort of a handsome financial arrangement between the two of them that made it worthwhile for Eric to do so. IMO, this is a questionable arrangement.

On another note, Brandon, why are all of the Vanyiacs (sp?) so defensive about the comments relating to Gary? It seems that if there ever is any discussion on this forum that is not 100% positive for Gary, the Vanyiacs are here in droves to support Gary and bash the opinions of others. It's a fact that we can express opinions without getting bashed for doing so.

I’ve never looked around the WLTV Forum in the past but I was over there and found the quote below

quote:

Originally posted by SS Chris on the WLTV Board:
Prediction: now that there's a flurry of post from Vayniacs of on W
S......it's only a matter of time, before they start bashing us as devout "minions" of Gary's.....and telling us to get off their board. Mind you, none of us have been bashing any of them.....or their board.............well...everyone except NY Pete of course.

But you watch.....only a matter of time before they start belittling us. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see......actually, somebody already called me "naive about business".

I guess that the last paragraph of my post above fulfilled SS Chris’ prediction. It’s always the us vs. them attitude that emanates from those WLTVers.

This is kind of an add on to Board-O’s comments on the other thread about the WL e-mails. I always find it kinda funny that the WL e-mails (more than any of the other wine retailer e-mails that I get) really push ratings/points. Every WL e-mail screams “91 pts for under $15 bucks, best QPR of the year” or something similar. I’ve heard Gary say more than once that points don’t matter, bla, bla, bla, but every e-mail is just one big shelf taker. I haven’t seen an e-mail in a while from the WL that was something that was unrated by the wine press and sounded new and interesting.

quote:

On another note, Brandon, why are all of the Vanyiacs (sp?) so defensive about the comments relating to Gary? It seems that if there ever is any discussion on this forum that is not 100% positive for Gary, the Vanyiacs are here in droves to support Gary and bash the opinions of others. It's a fact that we can express opinions without getting bashed for doing so.

Though I do not condone much of the sophmoric behavior which seems to run unchecked over at WLTV forums it seems that a few there often poke fun of and criticize Gary. For example.

http://tv.winelibrary.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4443&start=0

So I guess they feel that they do enough to keep Mr. Vaynerchuck in check. Someone posting here about Vaynerchuck and not on WLtv forums would lead the Vayneeacs (sp) to come to his defense feeling that said poster does not follow GV enough to comment.