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Interesting tenor on this thread compared to e-boob. Most over there don't seem to understand that 2009, because of the apparently ideal weather, may in fact be an excellent vintage, and instead conclude that because it is being 'hyped' by those that are selling the wines, and because there have been a few vintages of the century in the last decade, the positive buzz should therefore be ignored. Maybe it is easy for them to do this just to be dicks because they can't buy the wine yet regardless (so don't have to not put their money where their rolling eyes are...or something). However, I am wondering how wines made in 47 and 59 and 61 and even 82 (and earlier and later for that matter) have managed to get such accolades despite the fact that technology at most of those times did not compare to current technology. Sure people have been making wine forever and surely they knew what they were doing during these vintage years, but what made the wines so great? If it was good grapes, were the grapes not good largely becaue of nearly ideal weather? Should this largely be an Orley-Ashenfelter-type analysis? I am asking because legitimately do not know what the key is for a good vintage year, if not the weather.
"No TV and no beer make Homer...something, something"
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| Posts: 746 | Location: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 07, 2007 | |
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Machine,
It's very easy to assume hype, because that was how it was done for many years. However, today there are many who travel to Bordeaux, take pictures, and give impressions of what the vintage will be. Then there are many professional wine critics who travel and publish their information and findings.
All of that information is then disseminated through the internet! Today, there are not many secrets left for the collector to discover after purchasing the wine.
Look at some of those pictures that are posted on ebob; and I think most would conclude that 2009 has the opportunity to be an excellent Bordeaux vintage. Still, I'd wait for the professional critics to post their findings, but I'm thinking the harvest is in by now, and 2009 Bordeaux is going to be an excellent to outstanding Bordeaux vintage.
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| Posts: 6951 | Location: Germantown, Tennessee | Registered: Oct 25, 2001 | |
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quote: Originally posted by latour67:
Machine,
It's very easy to assume hype, because that was how it was done for many years. However, today there are many who travel to Bordeaux, take pictures, and give impressions of what the vintage will be. Then there are many professional wine critics who travel and publish their information and findings.
All of that information is then disseminated through the internet! Today, there are not many secrets left for the collector to discover after purchasing the wine.
Look at some of those pictures that are posted on ebob; and I think most would conclude that 2009 has the opportunity to be an excellent Bordeaux vintage. Still, I'd wait for the professional critics to post their findings, but I'm thinking the harvest is in by now, and 2009 Bordeaux is going to be an excellent to outstanding Bordeaux vintage.
From what little I know, I agree completely. Just strange that those with an significant interest in wolves would complain about that boy crying wolf again and apparently end it there, when there is ample wolf-related evidence with which they could make their own opinions on whether they should be wolfing down 09 bdx. Maybe if we hype 09 bdx enough, more of these people will ignore it an prices will be lower.
"No TV and no beer make Homer...something, something"
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| Posts: 746 | Location: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 07, 2007 | |
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good points!
i guess that means even in an avg. year with today's technology and wine development, a "non-wine of the century" year could be vastly improved. of course limited to the fruit itself, but still an avg year in this century would outdo one from decades ago.
but it is ridiculus of how much bords have gone up just the past few years and obviously how much people still love them.
a few years ago i was just starting to buy bordeaux wines (not knowing too much), i was in line with many others at the bcldb 04 bordeaux release (specialty liquor stores in vancouver) to look at a bottle of 04 la fleur petrus ($85 CAD), just picked it up and looking at the label. these two guys walk by, chat then pick up the entire case below.. poof!!! nuts! in the 05 release, i saw 6 remaining bottles of la grave a pomerol, picked up a few bottles, after finishing placing them into my basket, this guy comes by with a cart and says to me kindly "i was just getting a cart to grab these!" geez how lucky was that. as long as people are willing to dish out the $$$$.. really, sky's the limit.
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| Posts: 42 | Location: Vancouver, Canada | Registered: Oct 25, 2008 | |
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| Posts: 142 | Location: San Anton, TX | Registered: Jan 24, 2008 | |
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According to the article, the conditions at harvest were "perfect". If this is so, why is there such a challenge with high alcohol levels? Is this a usual problem? Are we looking at wines potentially more like 2003 than 2005 or 2000? And how are they bringing out the acidity in these powerful wines. Not trying to be provocative here, just curious and trying to learn.
"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
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quote: Originally posted by Primordealsoup:
According to the article, the conditions at harvest were "perfect". If this is so, why is there such a challenge with high alcohol levels? Is this a usual problem? Are we looking at wines potentially more like 2003 than 2005 or 2000? And how are they bringing out the acidity in these powerful wines. Not trying to be provocative here, just curious and trying to learn.
I also thought 2003 when i read that. Acidity not even really mentioned, but I assume alcohol levels are driven by an abundance of sugar/sweetness. Assuming it is a good year, I just hope its good across the board so that there might be some great QPRs on the cheapies. Wish I had more of the sub-$20 2005's that I purchased.
"No TV and no beer make Homer...something, something"
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| Posts: 746 | Location: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 07, 2007 | |
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I don't care much about Bordeaux anymore. It's an opportunity to search out and try wines from elsewhere.
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It boggles my mind to read that a region with over 10,000 Chateaux and 57 appellations cannot satisfy the price and palate of some posters who are dismayed at the bottle prices of the wines of about 50 producers. Why is everyone stuck on the classified growths? Does everyone not realize that the 1855 classification is rather outdated? There are hundreds if not thousands of excellent Chateaux out there that produce wine just as good, if not better sometimes, than the classified growths and sell for a song. I still can't understand how one can wipe out a whole region from their buying habits based on the pricing of only 2.5% of the wineries.  I have been a fan of Australian wines and I am still a fan of the Rhone but the best wines' I've ever tasted and loved are from Bordeaux.
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"I have drunk not to the clouding of my reason, but just so much that I can still surely distinguish the syllables with my tongue." Athenaeus
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| Posts: 3389 | Location: montreal | Registered: Feb 21, 2004 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Mimik: I have been a fan of Australian wines and I am still a fan of the Rhone but the best wines' I've ever tasted and loved are from Bordeaux.
Please refrain from PWI  |
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| Posts: 7194 | Location: Montreal, QC | Registered: Feb 17, 2007 | |
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Mimik, I don't mean to imply that there is no Bordeaux I would buy. Rather, I've had it with the classified growths (broad generalization). For me wine is about learning and enjoying wine, not asset accumulation, so I'm perfectly happy to look at other wines... and not just Bordeaux.
For instance, I've been buying great wines from other regions (recently imported from the domain and with 20 to 40 years bottle age) for the cost of one bottle of '05 Pavie.
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| Posts: 42 | Location: Vancouver, Canada | Registered: Oct 25, 2008 | |
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GlennK: What's the story on 2008? Are the wines as good as Parker is stating?
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quote: Originally posted by Keeno:
GlennK: What's the story on 2008? Are the wines as good as Parker is stating?
I have not tasted any so I can’t say for myself, but the same guy told me that he thinks a lot of good juice was made in 2008, but it’s not great across the board like Parker seems to think. |
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| Posts: 2210 | Location: OC, CA (Currently in London) | Registered: Aug 01, 2007 | |
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In looking at the economy, my bucks etc. I am about to pass on Bord's. 2005 too rich for my blood. '09's should come down if they wish to sell them. The US $$$ keeps falling so looks like they will stay high. My budget has now shifted to good QPR wines, and let someone pay the obscene high prices. Appears as though the Aisan market will pay whatever is charged.
__________________
Ed Bowers
Live simply, Laugh often, Wine a lot!!!
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| Posts: 2810 | Location: Palm Beach Gardens FL | Registered: Nov 05, 2001 | |
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quote: Originally posted by FL Wino Spouse:
In looking at the economy, my bucks etc. I am about to pass on Bord's. 2005 too rich for my blood. '09's should come down if they wish to sell them. The US $$$ keeps falling so looks like they will stay high.
My budget has now shifted to good QPR wines, and let someone pay the obscene high prices. Appears as though the Aisan market will pay whatever is charged.
If you want good QPR wines, didn't you find a lot of these in 2005 bordeaux, don't you expect to find more in 2009 if it is a good year? From what I have seen the pricing of the less expensive producers fluctuates much less than the pricing of the bigger names. I thought that the great part of 05 was the cheapies that were rated high/tasted great but were not really any more expensive than they were in prior years.
"No TV and no beer make Homer...something, something"
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| Posts: 746 | Location: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 07, 2007 | |
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No. For some of the wines I sought, I found that the prices were quite tied to the rating score. Shops had a hey day in playing with mark-ups.
__________________
Ed Bowers
Live simply, Laugh often, Wine a lot!!!
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| Posts: 2810 | Location: Palm Beach Gardens FL | Registered: Nov 05, 2001 | |
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quote: Originally posted by FL Wino Spouse:
No. For some of the wines I sought, I found that the prices were quite tied to the rating score. Shops had a hey day in playing with mark-ups.
That sucks. Our provincial wine monopoly has awful prices, but at least they don't adjust prices for unexpectedly high ratings (unless they run out of stock and have to re-order from across the pond at higher prices).
"No TV and no beer make Homer...something, something"
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| Posts: 746 | Location: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 07, 2007 | |
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quote: Originally posted by winemanintheden:
but it was quite busy/crazy at the 2005 bordeaux release last year.
I'll never forget the 05 release, it was like a war zone. That's the last time I'll buy Bordeaux from Government store, even if it means sourcing internationally for 08,09. Even grannys and gramps eyes were lit on fire, aggressively lifting heavy cases of wines in their costco-sized carts. I felt being swarmed by body heat, and oxygen running low around me. I just stayed away from the Horde, and casually chatted with another exhausted dude about Chilean wines. Afterall, buying wine is suppose to be fun experience. |
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| Posts: 194 | Location: Vancouver, BC | Registered: Jun 19, 2009 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Machine:
Interesting tenor on this thread compared to e-boob. Most over there don't seem to understand that 2009, because of the apparently ideal weather, may in fact be an excellent vintage, and instead conclude that because it is being 'hyped' by those that are selling the wines, and because there have been a few vintages of the century in the last decade, the positive buzz should therefore be ignored. Maybe it is easy for them to do this just to be dicks because they can't buy the wine yet regardless (so don't have to not put their money where their rolling eyes are...or something). However, I am wondering how wines made in 47 and 59 and 61 and even 82 (and earlier and later for that matter) have managed to get such accolades despite the fact that technology at most of those times did not compare to current technology. Sure people have been making wine forever and surely they knew what they were doing during these vintage years, but what made the wines so great? If it was good grapes, were the grapes not good largely becaue of nearly ideal weather? Should this largely be an Orley-Ashenfelter-type analysis? I am asking because legitimately do not know what the key is for a good vintage year, if not the weather.
There have been four or five "vintages of the century" declared in....this decade. Hype. You bet. Might be a tasty vintage, but no-one is going to chase it. |
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| Posts: 437 | Location: "Under a Western Sky" | Registered: Feb 06, 2003 | |
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