Didn't mean to get you in trouble Brian. I was corrected at Caymus when they were going to the twist top on the Conundrum. Very particular at Caymus I guess. Twist, screw, turn, it's all the same as long as it's not "corked".

I think it's just a phase. Besides, given the way general drinking audience views the screw caps, whether you call them screwcaps or twist offs, won't matter much. My bet is, most consumers will gladly pick a conventional bottle with a cork in it over the one with a screw cap. Once the sales drop, it'll be corks all over again.

Good move Brian-
Pave the road!!

quote:

Originally posted by grunhauser:
I think it's just a phase. Besides, given the way general drinking audience views the screw caps, whether you call them screwcaps or twist offs, won't matter much. My bet is, most consumers will gladly pick a conventional bottle with a cork in it over the one with a screw cap. Once the sales drop, it'll be corks all over again.

I respectfully have to disagree. I think that there's enough momentum to push this change through - especially since I really feel that twist-offs are a much better closure than corks. Maybe it's my engineering background, but the idea of something that twists down tight seems logically better than trying to plug the hole with a piece of bark. Just my 2 cents.

I hope that your comments echo ones made by people who felt that cars were just a phase - that they could never replace horses. Time will tell!

When I had lunch with Jim a few weeks ago, he brought along a split of 2002 Whitehall Lane Merlot in screw-cap, a clear statement of he stands behind the product/concept.

Sorry Abu, but I am with Brian on the sales of screw cap bottles. Personally, if I was offered the choice of buying my 2000 Bordeaux in screw-cap, I would to that in a heart beat.

Time will tell indeed.
Personally, I have no problems with winemakers putting screw caps on their bottles. I don't like it, but I respect your decision to stick it to the cork man. You are a true revolutionary, Brian. Unfortunately, revolutionaries often expire fast - too much heat. All I'm saying is don't bet your 401K on it just yet. Just because you are convinced of the superiority of a twist off closure, does not mean the consumer ever will be.

Saturday night I opend a 2003 Naylor Dry Hole for guests. My hands where exhausted from running a weedwhacker all day and I couldn't get the synthetic cork off the corkscrew. So, I'm glad you're going twist off compared to synthetic.

Personally I'm still split. I really don't want any customer to get a bad wine, but am concerned about long term effects on aging. Keeping a 2003 Pinot or 2002 Napa Cab fresh is one thing. Those are designed to be drunk in 3-5 years.

I'll be making wine that by it's nature will need 3-5 years in bottle to mellow out, and probably 10+. As slow as I've read the aging process goes under twist off, I'm really worried about putting a super concentrated and tannic wine in twist off.

It means modifying the winemaking and barrel aging for me to do twist off, as well as practices in the vineyard. Net result is higher production costs, and I wonder if consumers will actually pay more for a wine with a twist off?

It's also likely to push release on Cabs and Zins out 6-12 months for me. Santa Cruz Mountain wines are already released 12-36 months later than Napa, in large part so they mellow out. That's extending my cost without revenue time into really tough territory for a new winery. So I have a trade off on pissing off 2-10% of my customers or pushing out my revenue stream for a year. Really tough call.

Thoughts and advice on that pyang and Brian?

Tlily,

Stelvin has 3 types of enclosures. One of which almost mirrors the O2 absorbtion of cork.

When NZ went with "twist tops", I was very happy. Some Germans have gone that route also. My experience with Villa Maria SB in
particular, was that it got color sooner than the bottles with
cork Probably an indication of lower sulfur use.

My dislike for synthetics is quite high (I hate'em), they are sometimes next to impossible to pull out .

But.....for long (10yrs+) cellaring, I'm not convinced of the virtues of the "twist top".

The Stelvin drives me nuts, it really is hard to get off a corkscrew. I know that should be minor, but I figure if it annoys me, it annoys others. Right now, that's the route I'm headed, but to Grunhausers point, it's a lot of risk for a less than perfect solution. You're almost trading consumer disappointment in one area for disappointment in another.

Perhaps there is not a perfect screw-cap closure right now, and I use the word loosely, but it's only the matter of time before some R&D lab comes out with one.

I guess that in the end we are all glad the someone IS doing something to give us consumers a better product.

For that, thank you Brian and good luck.


Salud!

Congrats and a smart move Brian!
The consumers buying your wines are not the grocery shopper crowd and will appreciate your decision to provide them the best product possible.


Grun,
In the next few years, the only consumers who will still want corks will be Francophiles, old-fart traditionalists and the un-educated Silver Oak crowd. And BTW, Brian has bet more than his 401k on wine making and those decisions are paying great dividends already.

I agree with you Green about the "silver oak crowd". I was just in Vegas with some buddies, very good guys but not winos. Anyway they were picking fun at wines with a "screw cap". Of course they were thinking of "night train" and "thunderbird" but they were all quite surprised when I began to tell them about "corked" wines, the move that has already occured in Oz and NZ and the fact that some in CA were moving this way. By the way, I did not allow any Silver Oak to be purchased all weekend!

Grun, can't say if the response will be the same in the U.S., but Stelvin has been accepted wholeheartedly in Oz and N.Z., and it ain't just a phase. Numerous cellar door releases of 50% cork/50% Stelvin have sold out of Stelvin well before cork. It's hard to find an Oz riesling or N.Z. SB under cork over there anymore, and most aromatics whites are following. Also seeing a lot of N.Z. pinot under Stelvin, and a few quality Aussie reds going 100% screw cap.

quote:

Originally posted by tlily:
I'll be making wine that by it's nature will need 3-5 years in bottle to mellow out, and probably 10+. As slow as I've read the aging process goes under twist off, I'm really worried about putting a super concentrated and tannic wine in twist off.

tlily...have you seen the 2005 study done by Southcorp? It is a very interesting read. Lots of great information.

Lots of studies are going on with the use of Saran tin liners and Saranex on aging potentials.

Andrew

It is an insult to tradition that anyone would replace the three masts and one hundred sails on a naval frigate with steam power.

Why would you spend twenty times the price of a good race horse on an automobile?

The average consumer will never be able to afford a television.

Why in God's name would anyone pay hard-earned money for a computer in their home?

Who would ever put a telephone in their car?

Linking all of the world's computers together -- are you nuts?

Screw caps -- its a fad!

95% of the wine out there is intended to by consumed upon release. 99% will not improve with age. I say use real cork for the 1% and screw the rest. Most unbiased research supports the use of real cork when aging the best wines, but it will never be proven either way, so why mess with it?

Surely we can continue to minimize the volume of TCA as more advanced methods arise. Those who hate tainted $100 bottles should deal with it, just as those hate to open their wines with a simple twist should get their heads examined.

Brian, I'm 100% behind you on your decision.

If our ancestors had airtight seals, this discussion would not be occurring today.

Golf......all good........but they are a far cry
from : "......old-fart traditionalists and
un-educated Silver Oak crowd"
I guess that GreenDrazi is a far better scientist than I am


Salud!

Andrew, I have read the study, I'm just not sure who is right and what the long term effects will be.

Honestly I think I'm going to use Stelvin this year. How about you? And are you using CruchPad for 05? We might be neighbors if you are.

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Loring:

quote:

Originally posted by Darkstar:
But can you store them right-side up?

Yep!

And I got an email from Jim... he pointed out that I should be using the term "Twist Off" (as benchland does). It'll be hard though, since screw cap does lend itself to so many jokes!

Imagine how the jokes will fly, Brian, when you put a screw cap on the Naylor Dry Hole Pinot (assuming you're making that in 2004). Too many possibilities.....

quote:

Originally posted by tlily:
Honestly I think I'm going to use Stelvin this year. How about you? And are you using CruchPad for 05? We might be neighbors if you are.

Yep...going 100% Stelvin this vintage. Most likely Saranex liners.

CrushPad... hmmm...not me...I've been producing/bottling my wines in Lompoc out of the LWC prison.

You moving into the city!? I'm confused...

Andrew

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Andrew P.Vingiello,

ah, my mistake, I thought you where using Brian as a consultant through Crushpad in San Francisco. I'm going to be using their facility this year.