I just took a peek at the latest wtso offering, and see something called 2005 Hazyblur Invictis at the "bargain" price of $125, marked down by 50%. A quickie search of the WS database shows just a handful of the usual suspect Shiraz in the $200+ range, Hill of Grace, Astralis, Grange. I'm kind of surprised I don't see more in this range.
How many pricey "cult" Aussie Shiraz never get exported? And, do they ever create the buzz (and auction value) that something like Screaming Eagle has in the U.S., pre-recession of course?
TORB? Others?
-IB
"Wine only turns into alcohol if you let it sit."---Lindsay Bluth
Posts: 6241 | Location: Naptown | Registered: Nov 24, 2006
Originally posted by Berno: Look for Two Hands Ares '05. Runs about $130-140. It's in my top 10.
Wish I could agree with you...I have not had good experiences with Ares, Astralis or Velvet Glove....so overtly acidified, unbalanced, tonnes of alcohol... For me, if you are going to go high end in Australia it has to be Grange or hill of grace
I have never seen Velvet Glove, ... like ever.... at least in Canada and at least in western Alberta/BC, ... and I visit a lot of liquor stores & wine shops. Where did you obtain your V.G....?
Dean Martin: "I feel sorry for people that do not drink; they wake up in the morning and that is the best that they feel all day"
Originally posted by Berno: Look for Two Hands Ares '05. Runs about $130-140. It's in my top 10.
Wish I could agree with you...I have not had good experiences with Ares, Astralis or Velvet Glove....so overtly acidified, unbalanced, tonnes of alcohol... For me, if you are going to go high end in Australia it has to be Grange or hill of grace
For the Ares, you had a bad bottle. The 05 was, at the time the most balanced bottle of wine I had tasted.
------------------------------ "All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved." Matthew 10:22
Posts: 1730 | Location: Illinois | Registered: Jun 29, 2005
Originally posted by Berno: Look for Two Hands Ares '05. Runs about $130-140. It's in my top 10.
Wish I could agree with you...I have not had good experiences with Ares, Astralis or Velvet Glove....so overtly acidified, unbalanced, tonnes of alcohol... For me, if you are going to go high end in Australia it has to be Grange or hill of grace
For the Ares, you had a bad bottle. The 05 was, at the time the most balanced bottle of wine I had tasted.
I have had multiple bottles of 2005 ares.....bottles were all in tact....not corked, oxidized or tainted with VA....just unbalanced pushed and overworked in my opinion
Originally posted by Ogopogo DUDE: I have never seen Velvet Glove, ... like ever.... at least in Canada and at least in western Alberta/BC, ... and I visit a lot of liquor stores & wine shops. Where did you obtain your V.G....?
I had it in NY with a friend that I taste with regularly
Originally posted by Berno: Look for Two Hands Ares '05. Runs about $130-140. It's in my top 10.
Wish I could agree with you...I have not had good experiences with Ares, Astralis or Velvet Glove....so overtly acidified, unbalanced, tonnes of alcohol... For me, if you are going to go high end in Australia it has to be Grange or hill of grace
For the Ares, you had a bad bottle. The 05 was, at the time the most balanced bottle of wine I had tasted.
I have had other mollydooker wines and have never been a fan. I really get the note of acidification in these wines
I think at one point they created buzz, decreasingly however.
Screaming Eagle and the cult wines got established pretty much simultaneously with the dot-com boom and later the Wall Street boom. So people were buying those with Monopoly money and were able to bid the prices through the roof. As to whether the wines were ever worth what they cost, that's not something that can be objectively answered. They're worth what people were willing to pay and since they were willing to pay a lot, the wines got plenty of press.
The Australian wine had some good press, at least for a while. But to my mind, they were of a type. I don't think they were poorly made, in fact quite the contrary - they were made to the vision of the winemaker. It's just that the particular vision may lie somewhere other than mine.
Both Michael Twelvetree and Sparky Marquis have stated that they regularly acidify their wine and that they don't expect it to have "old bones". They want something ripe, lush, and rich. Today. In other words, drink them young. I think they get exactly what they are aiming at, which to me, indicates that they are or have good winemakers.
But in a world where Monopoly money has become scarce, that philosophy becomes problematic. If you want something young and delicious and fresh, you don't have to pay those prices. In fact, why would you? Primary fruit and alcohol without much complexity doesn't need to command $100+.
And according to the data I've seen, the Australians have dropped significantly in US sales, both at the high and the low end.
However, I think they're some of the best winemakers on the planet and they're unencumbered by what they claim is centuries of "tradition", so they're far more nimble than people in say, Europe. Consequently, I think that in the long run they'll be just fine.
Incidentally, the former winemaker for Grange is making his own wine now at much more reasonable prices. Give those a shot. They're really good and he's aiming for something ageworthy too.
Posts: 801 | Location: NY | Registered: Dec 09, 2007
Originally posted by GregT: And according to the data I've seen, the Australians have dropped significantly in US sales, both at the high and the low end.
----------------------------- "religion ='s thought disorder" - sigmund freud
Posts: 6351 | Location: Park Slope, Brooklyn | Registered: Nov 20, 2002
With the economy down the toilet, and 1st Growth future released at $199, It is not very wise for Aussies to release new cult labels at $400+.
Even the 2004 Grange is nuts with its release price right now.And given the quality of 07-08 vintages, i'll be skeptical that Mollydooker's or Amon Ra can maintain sales at current price levels.
Posts: 198 | Location: Vancouver, BC | Registered: Jun 19, 2009
"Thus, at the upper end of the market, Australia became identified by “one grape and one region,
Kind of like Napa and cabernet sauvignon?
The Australians are going to be OK though - they're making pretty good whites although most people don't talk about those. I've got some semillion, chardonnay and riesling that needs drinking.
Posts: 801 | Location: NY | Registered: Dec 09, 2007
There also is the former Three Rivers Shiraz which has been called Chris Ringland Shiraz since 1998. This has always been around $300.00 per bottle and very limited.
Posts: 829 | Location: The OC | Registered: Oct 18, 2001
If not already mentioned above, other "cult" possibilities:
Clarendon Hills Astralis Wild Duck Creek Duck Muck Glaetzer Amon Ra Noon Reserve Chris Ringland (Three Rivers) Wendouree Fox Creek Reserve Greenock Creek Roennfeldt Road
Originally posted by GregT: ... Incidentally, the former winemaker for Grange is making his own wine now at much more reasonable prices. Give those a shot. They're really good and he's aiming for something ageworthy too.
what're they called?
Posts: 328 | Location: Miami | Registered: Mar 30, 2009
Originally posted by GregT: ... Incidentally, the former winemaker for Grange is making his own wine now at much more reasonable prices. Give those a shot. They're really good and he's aiming for something ageworthy too.
Agree with John in NYC and Dom'n'Vin'sDad: Torbreck is tops for me, especially in terms of consistency. Drink The Factor at 4-8 years old; hold Run Rig for at least a decade IMHO.
Hill of Grace and Grange are stellar in great vintages, but their lesser vintages can have a pretty steep fall-off, from my limited experience. And the price - - pretty much demands that you only buy them in the very best vintages.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
Posts: 1593 | Location: Denver, CO | Registered: Jan 02, 2003
Originally posted by Gundam: And given the quality of 07-08 vintages, i'll be skeptical that Mollydooker's or Amon Ra can maintain sales at current price levels.
FYI, Mollydooker sold their entire 2007 vintage in three days. That was both the quantity allocated via their website, and the amount set aside for wholesalers.
As far as the original question is concerned, there are stuff all "pricey cult Aussie Shiraz never get exported." There are cult wines like Wendouree, et all, but they are not what you guys call "pricey" over here. Most of these cult wines rarely go for more than A$125 (that's less than 100 green backs) on the secondary market.
Most Australians have too much sense (and not enough money) to pay inflated prices for plonk so that they can have urinal bragging rights about what they have drunk.
If the prices are in the stratosphere, its purely because of US demand, and that's where it ends up being sold.
Cheers Ric www.torbwine.com
Posts: 1153 | Location: Bowral NSW Australia | Registered: Dec 01, 2001
A quickie search of the WS database shows just a handful of the usual suspect Shiraz in the $200+ range, Hill of Grace, Astralis, Grange. I'm kind of surprised I don't see more in this range.
