All right, I'll bite.

I'm happy to defend French vin ordinaire, or more accurately the good QPR that I believe is out there and can hold its own with anywhere else in the world. For under $20 Canadian there is really good Cotes du Rhone, Vacqueyras, and Languedoc to be had. Beaujolais in a year like 2003 may be one of the world's truly great QPRs. You don't have to spend a fortune to buy enjoyable stuff from France.

Talking about Vacqueyras, I'm drinking '01 Dom de la Charbonniere right now. Not bad at all.

ffrp,

I don't doubt french wines are good, however when the QPR argument comes out.....please, please show me the way

Please show me a cheaper french wine that can compete with these two Chilean (my favs) from the 2001 vintage

2001 Clos Apalta $55

2001 Don Melchor $40

The prices are what I bought both of these for...Clos Apalta in 12/04 Pembroke Pines, FL ABC Fine Wines & Spirits

Don Melchor - 02/13/04 Masters Wine & Spirits Pembroke Pines, FL (Ft. Lauderdale)

Again...I'm not saying there's not quality...but give me a French wine that can compete with these 2 at these prices in 2001...we all know 2000 is way, way overpriced

ffrp

If you went into a store and bought a random $20C (that's like $3 US isn't it?) French wine what are the chances that it would be better than a $20C Aussie wine or a $20C Spanish wine? Just because there are some QPR bargains out there doesn't make the average vin ordinaire good wine.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that if you cherrypick your examples you can make a case for French or US or Spanish or Australian or NZ or Argentinan or Italian wine as the best wine in the world.
The point is for French wine, to get a QPR bargain you have to know what you're getting (producer/region/vintage). In looking for QPR bargains from other countries you're taking much less of a risk.

gator:

Out of my price range. I'll let someone else pick up the gauntlet on that one.

I'm not arguing the superiority of French wine in every vintage, at every price point. I'm just saying that France can, and does, make good "everyday" stuff competitively.

ffrp

quote:

$20C (that's like $3 US isn't it?)

OK, humour to be funny requires a bit of truth....like in FL if you see a pink person running around amongst us whities....in the winter....they must be from Cananda, therefore you must still divide by 0.80 roughly and you will exceed $20C by $5C

Yes I know where it was, my company has a CAD$ account...and guess what...its staying there for now

You should see the Scottish tourists when they hit the Australian beaches. They're pale blue - it takes them a week to turn white.

(Quote stolen and paraphrased from Billy Connolly)

Pauly:

For me, a big part of the fun is knowing what you're looking for - not least because of hiking trips through the parts of France that I enjoy mean that many of the appellations mean more than names on a label. The geography and history adds to the enjoyment.

I'm not trying to make a case for French superiority - I'm only suggesting that French plonk can hold its own with the plonk from the other places you mention. Be a bit surprising if, after 2000 years' practice, they couldn't.

Cheers,

ffrp

quote:

gator:

Out of my price range. I'll let someone else pick up the gauntlet on that one.

I'm not arguing the superiority of French wine in every vintage, at every price point. I'm just saying that France can, and does, make good "everyday" stuff competitively.

If that was out of your price range than...how but this...I have not found a better QPR than Washington State, USA Cabernet - $7.99 Columbia Crest Grand Estates

Ain't no $8 French Wine matching it

Georges DuBoeuf 2003 Julienas - up here, same price or cheaper than the CC. The CC is good too - no question. I'm arguing that the French are competitive, not superior.

That's cool Jay, just send me your CdP Vieux Telegraphe 1998 and Vieille Julienne 1999, I'm sure you still have my address

quote:

CdP Vieux Telegraphe 1998

Oh...now that I could enjoy

And I am not trying to say the USA is superior to France in Wine either but I would think we have better QPR's cause we aren't shipping over the pond

I'm really disapointed to read that.

I will do like as you when you come in France, speak in my proper language even if I'm in a foreign country:

C'est désolant de lire des choses comme ca, pourquoi faire la guerre entre les vins francais et les vins des USA ? C'est nouveau ?
Qu'avez vous à prouver ?
vous ne fait que renforcer l'idée que vous avez envie de regner en maitre dans le monde et etre les meilleurs pour tout.

Acceptez les differences, acceptez les terroirs et leurs differences. La lattidue et le cépage ne fait pas tout.

Quand aux prix, ca n'est pas parceque le prix d'un vin elevé que le vin sera automatiquement meilleur qu'un vin moins cher. Je suis effaré de voir que vous pensez cela.

Voila, ca n'est pas pour cela que je vais arreter de gouter vos vins, il y a toujours des bon domaines à dénicher et ceci...dans le monde entier...

This thread sucks .
I love French wines, I think US wines suck. I think Aussie wines suck big time. South-African wines make me fart. South American wines make me puke from 8-12.
What's the use of others here knowing this. If your palate is rotten, no need to inform others.

Hey NDD, South African wines make me fart too. Dutch wines, on the other hand, bring on severe seizures that only resolve with intravenous Barossa Shiraz.

Was in Lille, France on the weekend, drinking Bordeaux, Burgundy and Rhones older than me. They were all disgusting, and I'll never drink French wine again!!!

Your stated bias against french people is rude and really belongs elsewhere. I am sure there is tongue and cheek humour here, knowing you from your posts, but excluding your opinion on french wine , this thread makes you look silly.

casimir,
Actually, I'm sure most of us can accept the differences, just not the prices anymore.


p.s. When will the French learn to accept people just trying to speak French and not "proper French"? hhhmmm?

NEW WORLD WINE...NEW WORLD WINE...NEW WORLD WINE...

quote:

Originally posted by Pauly:
FSUwineguy

I'll bet that if you take a 10 year verticle of Grange or Screagle and pit that against a 10 year verticle from any 1st growth chateau that the Grange or Screagle will have a higher average rating.

Another thing that bugs me is that when people defend French wine they always talk about 1st growths, Y'dquem and the great champagne houses, they never want to talk about the vin ordinaire.

So what you're telling me is that Grange and Screagle are vin ordinaire? But you know, most 1st growths and d'yquem are out of my price range, but at least I know that I could at least find one to buy if I wanted to (unlike Screagle, and while Im at it, Harlan, Colgin, Bond, Sloan, etc)

In the end it all boils down to personal taste.

Gator,
the 2001 Melchor will be here when it gets here.

When you changed your screen name you should have also dropped the "Golf & Pinot" portion.

quote:

Originally posted by Pauly:
FSUwineguy

I'll bet that if you take a 10 year verticle of Grange or Screagle and pit that against a 10 year verticle from any 1st growth chateau that the Grange or Screagle will have a higher average rating.

Depends on the 10 year period you select. Most of the time, you would be wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by timmeranda:

quote:

Originally posted by Pauly:
FSUwineguy

I'll bet that if you take a 10 year verticle of Grange or Screagle and pit that against a 10 year verticle from any 1st growth chateau that the Grange or Screagle will have a higher average rating.

Depends on the 10 year period you select. Most of the time, you would be wrong.

Well, in the case of the Screagle the options are terribly limited since it was only first made in the early 90s.

You are entitled to any opinions you wish to express, no matter how stupid they are.
But, tell me, Golf&Pinot Nut..... You stated, "I don't really like French people" (you go on to say that the people in the wine industry are "pretty cool", but in the final "analysis", I think they [French people] are all a bunch of Jaques [sic] Chiracs."
So, here is my question:
How many French persons have you met and spent enough time with to determine if they are good people or bad people? Do you think that this is a big enough sample to form an opinion about millions of persons?

Curious note, really. G&PN, "it is all way too dry for me?" This is such an uneducated comment that a response isn't necessary.

And I think that's what your post is all about... education, or lack thereof. You don't understand French wines or labels, so you haven't ventured there very much, and when you have, it's been a random hit-or-miss effort.

Tell me (tee hee)... what one word do you use to sum up all Italian wine?