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Why Does JL Hate Stags' Leap Wine Cellars So Much??
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quote:
Originally posted by pyang:
There is a good reason that these "icons" has not been receiving good scores. The simple fact is they were making better wine back in '80s, '70s or even '60s than they are making today.

To me, BV being probably the most tragic of them all. Diluting their vineyards to way too many brand extensions and increased productions just about killed any prestige they had from the early days.

SLWC, Freemark Abbey, Mayacamas, Diamond Creek, Silver Oak and many other were all making better wine back in the days than present time.

For that matter, I can't think of one single winery that made their name in the '70s or earlier and is making better wine today.


For the uninitiated such as myself, what Napa or Sonoma wineries would you steer me towards as one who leans heavily towards California Cabs? A winery that makes a decent lower-end Cab priced in the $20's for instance?

Thanks,
Steve
 
Posts: 13 | Registered: Sep 01, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A winery that makes a decent lower-end Cab priced in the $20's for instance?


Steve, it's getting pretty tough to find decent Napa Cabs in that price point. Vintage dependent, they do exist though. A couple of suggestions:

- 2009/10 Beringer "Knights Valley" Cab Sauv.

- Keenan Cab Sauv. (You can find this < $30)

- Justin Cab Sauv. (Not Napa, but decent juice)

- 2007/08 Waterstone Cab Sauv. (One of those "they get their fruit from a premium producer" kind of wine. Still decent though.)

- Sika Cab Sauv. (Same as above. Although, I like their Merlot better. Supposedly, the fruit comes from Pahlmeyer)

* In reference to the OP, I recently bought an '07 Stags Leap WC "Artemis" for around $35 at Costco. This stuff was garbage. I could never in good faith, recommend this to anybody. Even at this price (I think it normally retails for around $50), it's probably the worst QPR wine for me this year.

If you care to branch out a bit, I have had good luck with a few Italian "Super Tuscans" in the $20-30 range.

The '07/08 2007 Tolaini Valdisanti Tenuta S. Giovanni Toscana IGT, for example, is not only one of the best QPR buys for me this year, it might be the best ever. Cheers.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shane T.,
 
Posts: 1410 | Location: Murrieta, CA | Registered: Mar 14, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Shane T.:
- Keenan Cab Sauv. (You can find this < $30).


Please tell me where to find it at this price. I have never seen it for less than $40.

Thanks.


"The hardest thing to attain ... is the appreciation of difference without insisting on superiority" George Saintsbury
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: DC Suburbs, Potomac MD. | Registered: Dec 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Please tell me where to find it at this price. I have never seen it for less than $40.


I have purchased this wine at a couple different LWS for less than $30.

"3rd Corner," in Encinitas, CA, had this for around $28. They had quite a few cases on the floor too.

"North County Wine Co." currently has the '07 in stock for $34.97. If you sign up for their newsletter, I believe they knock off 10% from the first purchase. North County Wine Co. has a nice selection of Keenan stuff, to include the "Reserve Cab. & Mernet Reserve." Everything is aggressively priced here.

http://www.northcountywinecomp...=keenan&catalog=true

The Cab Sauv. goes on sale at Bevmo from time to time as well. My local Bevmo also has their '04 & '05 Merlot for $29 (Very nice, BTW).

I was just in Milwaukee, and also saw the '07 at "Discount Liquor" for < $30. If you're ever in Wisconsin, check this place out. I have had some shockingly good buys here for premium Bordeaux (As of late, a '95 La Mission Haut Brion, '96 Las Cases, '98 Ducru, among others...).

Like most people, I enjoy searching for deals.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shane T.,
 
Posts: 1410 | Location: Murrieta, CA | Registered: Mar 14, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was reminded I am a wine geek when I had to spend a few minutes debating whether the OP was referring to Stags' Leap or Stag's Leap. Yes, it became apparent that the latter (SLWC) was what was being referenced. But the placement of the apostrophe made me pause.....
 
Posts: 770 | Location: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: Aug 30, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by fusionstorm:
I was reminded I am a wine geek when I had to spend a few minutes debating whether the OP was referring to Stags' Leap or Stag's Leap. Yes, it became apparent that the latter (SLWC) was what was being referenced. But the placement of the apostrophe made me pause.....

fusionstorm- Is there a correlation between your board name and your place of employment? Smile


"Won't someone tell me what it is they all want?"
 
Posts: 6038 | Location: Utah | Registered: Jan 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Maybe. Depends on who's asking..... Wink
 
Posts: 770 | Location: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: Aug 30, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Shane T.:
quote:
Please tell me where to find it at this price. I have never seen it for less than $40.


I have purchased this wine at a couple different LWS for less than $30.

"3rd Corner," in Encinitas, CA, had this for around $28. They had quite a few cases on the floor too.

"North County Wine Co." currently has the '07 in stock for $34.97. If you sign up for their newsletter, I believe they knock off 10% from the first purchase. North County Wine Co. has a nice selection of Keenan stuff, to include the "Reserve Cab. & Mernet Reserve." Everything is aggressively priced here.

http://www.northcountywinecomp...=keenan&catalog=true

The Cab Sauv. goes on sale at Bevmo from time to time as well. My local Bevmo also has their '04 & '05 Merlot for $29 (Very nice, BTW).

I was just in Milwaukee, and also saw the '07 at "Discount Liquor" for < $30. If you're ever in Wisconsin, check this place out. I have had some shockingly good buys here for premium Bordeaux (As of late, a '95 La Mission Haut Brion, '96 Las Cases, '98 Ducru, among others...).

Like most people, I enjoy searching for deals.


Thx highly appreciated.


"The hardest thing to attain ... is the appreciation of difference without insisting on superiority" George Saintsbury
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: DC Suburbs, Potomac MD. | Registered: Dec 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by fusionstorm:
Maybe. Depends on who's asking..... Wink

I recently attended a local seminar hosted by one of our key product manufacturers, and I happened to notice that one of the engineers had received an email with "Fusionstorm" in the signature.

It appears that we work in a similar industry.

P.S. Apologies to everyone for the thread drift.


"Won't someone tell me what it is they all want?"
 
Posts: 6038 | Location: Utah | Registered: Jan 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
Maybe. Depends on who's asking..... Wink

I recently attended a local seminar hosted by one of our key product manufacturers, and I happened to notice that one of the engineers had received an email with "Fusionstorm" in the signature.

It appears that we work in a similar industry.

P.S. Apologies to everyone for the thread drift.

A little thread drift never hurt anyone.

Yes, it sounds like you're involved in the IT industry in some capacity. I just sell the stuff...... Razz
 
Posts: 770 | Location: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: Aug 30, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by nodakgus:
For the uninitiated such as myself, what Napa or Sonoma wineries would you steer me towards as one who leans heavily towards California Cabs? A winery that makes a decent lower-end Cab priced in the $20's for instance?

Thanks,
Steve


I am not sure where you live at, but if your local Costco carries wine, check them out, good starting point.


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Clarets Hong Kong Ltd.
 
Posts: 6998 | Location: HKG - TPE - TAO | Registered: Sep 10, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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..Interesting responses, my post was a 'perception' and a bit untrue when the facts were checked and I corrected myself...

All said, I like the wines and always have, so once again, all in the eye of the beholder.

I'm sure this MUST happen, but I wonder if the wineries get fed up with certain writers and 'ban' them from their facilities? A lot of the game is about ego, and I'm certain this must be a practice of sorts...

Cheers,

- Ian
 
Posts: 174 | Location: Kitchener, Ontario Canada | Registered: Apr 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^^^
That would certainly explain the gaps in coverage in the WS ratings database. I see more than a few producers who suffer a couple of mid 80s scores for consecutive vintages, and there will be a noticeable gap of vintages thereafter until a better scoring vintage appears (if at all).

Philip Togni is one example.
 
Posts: 770 | Location: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: Aug 30, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not sure if its been mentioned, but obviously a large part of JL's issue is brett. JL claims to be able to detect brett down to 3 ppb, a threshold that probably puts him in the .005% of the population that can taste it at that level. He then kills the wines, score wise. If he even imagines brett, which at some of those low levels I believe happens some times, the wine gets hammered.

Second point is that with many of the WS writers, if the wine is not in the new style; huge up front fruit, big oak, higher alcohol, drink now, the wine will see lower scores overall.

As to some of the other comments, it is undeniable accurate to say that as wineries and brands sold out to the huge conglomerants, overall wine quality decreased. On this departing note, I am really looking forward to see what Coppola can/will do with Inglenook wines now that he has reunited the winery/vineyards. I look forward to those wines, in about 5 years, after he has had the opportunity to transform those great vineyards.
 
Posts: 1896 | Registered: Jul 17, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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SLWC is not what it once was, however, JL does not like wines that don't drink well straight out of the gate. It is just his preference. What is truly interesting is wines that he loved young (97 Napa Cabs come to mind) are not so loved by him at 15 years.

His constant low scoring on Dominus tells me all I need to do know about his tastes and preferences.


GG
 
Posts: 274 | Location: Galveston, TX | Registered: Apr 11, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
I was reminded I am a wine geek when I had to spend a few minutes debating whether the OP was referring to Stags' Leap or Stag's Leap. Yes, it became apparent that the latter (SLWC) was what was being referenced. But the placement of the apostrophe made me pause.....


Is Stags' Leap Winery any better? I always thought this was the "historic" one!
I believe the aposthrophe in the OP is wrong, should be Stag's Leap Wine Cellars.


"The hardest thing to attain ... is the appreciation of difference without insisting on superiority" George Saintsbury
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: DC Suburbs, Potomac MD. | Registered: Dec 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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