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Burgundy Aeration?
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Folks

I have seen very mixed but not extensive comments on this, both here and at other forums. I would be grateful for a more fullsome and detailed discussion on this topic.

- why or why not?

- when and when not?

- For older vs younger wines?

- Better or worse for certain Burgundies (such as Grand Cru vs Premier Cru or Village; or appelations or communes)?

- Audouze only? How long?

- Decant - after Audouze?

- Double decant?

- Size and shape of decanter?

- How long?

- Other forms of aeration?

A worthy discussion

Julian


I have enjoyed great health at a great age because everyday since I can remember I have consumed a bottle of wine except when I have not felt well. Then I have consumed two bottles. - Bishop of Seville
 
Posts: 739 | Location: Toronto | Registered: Jul 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Definitely not an authority on this subject but will offer some observations:

Someone I trust explicitly (Somm at Bern's) always decants older burgundy. He uses the wide base models and says they need the air. It does not matter if it is a village wine or a grand cru. The greatest burgundy I have tasted have been treated this way.
 
Posts: 2104 | Location: Virginia | Registered: Aug 22, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Like Longboarder, I'm not an authority, but have found what works for me.

Burgundy is one of my favourite types of wine so I want to get the most from them. I try to keep it simple: decant all of them and take my best guess how long to decanter each one. As with other wines there are two reasons to decant: sediment and to let them open up.

It is difficult to generalize on decanting time though because Burgundy is so variable, and optimal decanting time is dependent on several factors: age, vintage, terroir, producer, all of which influence the character. I prefer to err on the side of under rather than over decanting. Others may prefer the reverse.

Narrow based decanters work fine, are easy to clean, and you can fit lots on the table. More wine Big Grin

Friends and I enjoyed a bottle of 1949 Clos de Vougeot at a Burg dinner a few months ago. This was decanted for sediment then we enjoyed it right away. It was terrific right away and was good in the glass 1.5 hours later. By the end of the night it had faded and died. It was an exceptional experience. Decanting then drinking right away this one was definitely the right way to go imo. If we had waited once it was in the decanter, we would have missed out.

Cheers,
 
Posts: 1592 | Location: Etobicoke (Toronto burb) | Registered: Apr 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by VinCentric:
Like Longboarder, I'm not an authority, but have found what works for me.

Burgundy is one of my favourite types of wine so I want to get the most from them. I try to keep it simple: decant all of them and take my best guess how long to decanter each one. As with other wines there are two reasons to decant: sediment and to let them open up.

It is difficult to generalize on decanting time though because Burgundy is so variable, and optimal decanting time is dependent on several factors: age, vintage, terroir, producer, all of which influence the character. I prefer to err on the side of under rather than over decanting. Others may prefer the reverse.

Narrow based decanters work fine, are easy to clean, and you can fit lots on the table. More wine Big Grin

Friends and I enjoyed a bottle of 1949 Clos de Vougeot at a Burg dinner a few months ago. This was decanted for sediment then we enjoyed it right away. It was terrific right away and was good in the glass 1.5 hours later. By the end of the night it had faded and died. It was an exceptional experience. Decanting then drinking right away this one was definitely the right way to go imo. If we had waited once it was in the decanter, we would have missed out.

Cheers,


1949 Clos de Vougeot! I am truly envious and congratulatory, VinC. Bow Did you post a TN, of this or the other Burgundies?

Also glad to know you are a fellow fine Burgundy fan! Winner

Time for a Burgundy offline, perhaps?

But I am getting off topic. Back to aeration.


I have enjoyed great health at a great age because everyday since I can remember I have consumed a bottle of wine except when I have not felt well. Then I have consumed two bottles. - Bishop of Seville
 
Posts: 739 | Location: Toronto | Registered: Jul 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I decant them all and taste right away. I've some old ones that faded quickly, and others that improved for hours. I'll make an educated guess. If I think they'll be ready to go, I'll serve with them with a main course. If I think they'll need time, I'll let them go for a leisurely cheese course.


Just one more sip.
 
Posts: 36419 | Location: NY | Registered: Oct 18, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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very worthy discussion,

i save my money and buy something else ;-)


This is my sig -> www.brownteacup.com
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Posts: 10973 | Location: NYC | Registered: Feb 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
very worthy discussion,

i save my money and buy something else ;-)


I pretty much only buy Rhone and Burgundy now.


Just one more sip.
 
Posts: 36419 | Location: NY | Registered: Oct 18, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good thread, Julian. I've wondered the same thing, and have read so many differing opinions: decant older burgs but not young ones; decant young burgs but not old ones; never decant anything; always decant everything...

My non-scientific, purely subjective approach is to PnP a small taste, give it a good swirl, and see how it's drinking. Depending on how closed it is, I'll decant, use the Vinturi, or just pour away. Then I'll let it evolve in the glass.

On a related topic, if you don't finish a bottle in one night, do you have advice on how to store the remainder? If I've decanted it, I pour it back in the bottle, VacuVin it, and typically put it back in the wine fridge (upright, of course). Is that a reasonable approach?

Andrew


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Posts: 862 | Location: Toronto | Registered: Sep 01, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sunnylea57:
Good thread, Julian. I've wondered the same thing, and have read so many differing opinions: decant older burgs but not young ones; decant young burgs but not old ones; never decant anything; always decant everything...

My non-scientific, purely subjective approach is to PnP a small taste, give it a good swirl, and see how it's drinking. Depending on how closed it is, I'll decant, use the Vinturi, or just pour away. Then I'll let it evolve in the glass.

On a related topic, if you don't finish a bottle in one night, do you have advice on how to store the remainder? If I've decanted it, I pour it back in the bottle, VacuVin it, and typically put it back in the wine fridge (upright, of course). Is that a reasonable approach?

Andrew


Half bottles work great for a few days. Clear ones (Sauternes) make it easy to see. If I plan to drink half, I fill the half bottle right away - close to cork level. Otherwise, at the end of the evening. Simple, works. For the scientific, and longer term result - check Parcival's notes re: Coravin.
 
Posts: 1592 | Location: Etobicoke (Toronto burb) | Registered: Apr 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sunnylea57:
On a related topic, if you don't finish a bottle in one night, do you have advice on how to store the remainder? If I've decanted it, I pour it back in the bottle, VacuVin it, and typically put it back in the wine fridge (upright, of course). Is that a reasonable approach?

Andrew

Andrew, welcome to the Boards. Look forward to meeting up at an offline event and helping you get though that Burgundy stockpile! Smile

There are many threads on the subject of saving leftover wine but two of the better ones are
here and here.
 
Posts: 2488 | Location: Toronto | Registered: Nov 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sunnylea57:
Good thread, Julian. I've wondered the same thing, and have read so many differing opinions: decant older burgs but not young ones; decant young burgs but not old ones; never decant anything; always decant everything...

My non-scientific, purely subjective approach is to PnP a small taste, give it a good swirl, and see how it's drinking. Depending on how closed it is, I'll decant, use the Vinturi, or just pour away. Then I'll let it evolve in the glass.

On a related topic, if you don't finish a bottle in one night, do you have advice on how to store the remainder? If I've decanted it, I pour it back in the bottle, VacuVin it, and typically put it back in the wine fridge (upright, of course). Is that a reasonable approach?

Andrew


Hi Andrew

I drink about 1/3 a bottle a day, during the work week. Vacuvin seems to work fine, for any wine with a decent level of tannin. The above applies to younger wines, which are my day to day wines in any event. I would not refrigerate below 57 degrees, as this adversely impacts wine quality and taste. For older wines, Vinc's half bottle approach or other wine preservatives (argon, nitrogen) work in a limited way.

Cheers

Julian


I have enjoyed great health at a great age because everyday since I can remember I have consumed a bottle of wine except when I have not felt well. Then I have consumed two bottles. - Bishop of Seville
 
Posts: 739 | Location: Toronto | Registered: Jul 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks VinT and Julian. Yes, I put the bottle back in the Vintage Keeper which is set at 57 F.

VinT, in those two threads there seems to be a big difference in opinion about pumping. But it leads to another question, so I'll move this to a new thread and avoid derailing Julian's any further.


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Posts: 862 | Location: Toronto | Registered: Sep 01, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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bump

Here's an older thread on the topic.

I've used the spray (argon) in addition to the half bottle, especially if saving 1/3 of a bottle (more head space). Pump was useless. The ideal, if you're concerned about a very good wine, would be the half bottle plus argon, or just buy a Coravin.

Coravin thread

As VinT said, hope to see you out to an Offline soon, and can help you with that stockpile of Burgundies.

Cheers,

VinC
 
Posts: 1592 | Location: Etobicoke (Toronto burb) | Registered: Apr 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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(Oops. I meant VinC. ). EDIT: Ok, wait a sec. There's a VinC AND a VinT here? What the?

And I hope I'm not turning into one of "those people": the newb who can't be bothered using the search tool. Smile


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Posts: 862 | Location: Toronto | Registered: Sep 01, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sunnylea57:
(Oops. I meant VinC. ). EDIT: Ok, wait a sec. There's a VinC AND a VinT here? What the?

And I hope I'm not turning into one of "those people": the newb who can't be bothered using the search tool. Smile


NO worries Sunnylea. Yes there is a VinC (VinCentric) and a VinT (VinToronto).

Re: search tool - no worries there. I thought it might be helpful for you to see those other threads. Parcival seems to have the most experience with the Coravin, and as a science related professional, does his testing with good scientific methodology, hence my reference to his comments on the Coravin.

Cheers,

VinCentric...errrr VinC?
 
Posts: 1592 | Location: Etobicoke (Toronto burb) | Registered: Apr 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I posted on Bill Nanson's site. He replied, advising:

"Most 1-3 year-olds these days will massively benefit from a shake or decant - mainly due the amount of gas that many now carry. 4-20+ years I would just open the bottle an hour or two before and let it open/close/open again in the glass over a few hours. 30+ years and I think the Audouze method works very well indead - for me at least."


I have enjoyed great health at a great age because everyday since I can remember I have consumed a bottle of wine except when I have not felt well. Then I have consumed two bottles. - Bishop of Seville
 
Posts: 739 | Location: Toronto | Registered: Jul 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Longboarder:


Someone I trust explicitly (Somm at Bern's) always decants older burgundy. He uses the wide base models and says they need the air. It does not matter if it is a village wine or a grand cru. The greatest burgundy I have tasted have been treated this way.


+1 Wink
 
Posts: 29545 | Location: Dallas, TX & Santa Fe, NM | Registered: Feb 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My experience has shown a Somm will always decant a red wine over $100 - I always figured it was part of the show.

I've never seen anything happen in a decanter that won't happen in the glass. My practice is to open a few hours before drinking, pour in glass and swirl the hell out of it, if needed. If sediment is involved,then a decanter is called for.



Got acid?
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Everyone has to believe in something. I believe I’ll have another glass of wine.
 
Posts: 1430 | Location: Redstate USA | Registered: Mar 01, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by jhcolman:
I would not refrigerate below 57 degrees, as this adversely impacts wine quality and taste.
Cheers

Do you really think keeping the leftover bottle in a normal refrigerator (35-40 degrees) for a day or two will adversely affect the wine vs putting back in a 58 degree cellar. I would think a colder temperature would preserve the wine better, then just allow it to come to a warmer "cellar" or room temp prior to drinking.
 
Posts: 88 | Location: St. Louis. USA | Registered: Aug 22, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Strange question. Why should Burgundy be treated in another way than other wines? Isn't aeration a general question with long-lived wines? Why should a top Burgundy, in terms of aeration, be treated in another way than a top Barolo, for instance?


There is nothing in our intelligence that has not passed by the senses. (Aristoteles)
 
Posts: 1727 | Location: Luxemburg | Registered: Nov 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Julian - You can close up shop and call life complete. You've been published. Smile Smile

I often thought some of Matt's essays had a similar ring to topics discussed here. Maybe he'll chime in here more often.
 
Posts: 3021 | Location: ATL | Registered: Mar 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by snipes:
Julian - You can close up shop and call life complete. You've been published. Smile Smile

Very cool.
 
Posts: 2488 | Location: Toronto | Registered: Nov 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Personally, I pop and pour any older Burgundy. I prefer to let it open in the glass, and as long as it has stood upright, I don't find the sediment to be much of a problem. For something younger, I wouldn't hesitate to throw it in a decanter and sample every 20-30 minutes to see where it is at.
 
Posts: 1228 | Registered: May 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by MoselleLuxemburg:
Strange question. Why should Burgundy be treated in another way than other wines? Isn't aeration a general question with long-lived wines? Why should a top Burgundy, in terms of aeration, be treated in another way than a top Barolo, for instance?


there's an american phrase for this "contemplating our bellybuttons."


Paul Romero (tlily)- Owner, Winemaker, Tour Guide
Stefania Wine
http://www.stefaniawine.com
 
Posts: 7532 | Location: San Jose | Registered: May 24, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Stefania Wine:
quote:
Originally posted by MoselleLuxemburg:
Strange question. Why should Burgundy be treated in another way than other wines? Isn't aeration a general question with long-lived wines? Why should a top Burgundy, in terms of aeration, be treated in another way than a top Barolo, for instance?


there's an american phrase for this "contemplating our bellybuttons."


http://www.amazon.com/Contempl...cience/dp/091629160X

i can use pinot to clean out my bellybutton?


This is my sig -> www.brownteacup.com
www.wsqwine.com
(Wine distributor)
 
Posts: 10973 | Location: NYC | Registered: Feb 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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