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Originally posted by MoselleLuxemburg:
Craft or climate ?
I think the climate plays a big role in the evolution of the current wine style, both in the old and the new world. You'll find many 13.5 - 14.5 % vol wines in French regions that had 1 - 1.5 lower levels some 10 years ago.

As much as i like the old world style, i like diversity. As already pointed out, there are limits.

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Originally posted by PetiteSyrahFan:
These high alcohol wines coming from California and other regions around the world as well I would not trust to cellar more than 3 to 7 years.

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Originally posted by Eric White:
As in wine itself, it is all about balance - old world, new world, they both have their place, and I'd miss either equally if I had to do without.

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Originally posted by Mimik:
I used to like Aussie fruit bombs(I guess everyone gets serious into wine from the modern, overripe fruit versions) and later as my palate became more sophisticated......

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Originally posted by wine+art:
White Wine:
Chardonnay: Burgundy & California

Red:
Pinot: Burgundy & Oregon
Syrah: Rhone & Washington

w+a

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Originally posted by KSC02:

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Originally posted by wine+art:
White Wine:
Chardonnay: Burgundy & California

Red:
Pinot: Burgundy & Oregon
Syrah: Rhone & Washington

w+a

Sooooo.....you're saying both then.

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Originally posted by wine+art:
Dessert Wines:

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Originally posted by Jcocktosten:

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Originally posted by Eric White:
As in wine itself, it is all about balance - old world, new world, they both have their place, and I'd miss either equally if I had to do without.

Not surprised, Eric put it better than I would. I completely agree

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I don't think that Laube is a market driver for these wines

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I mean you no offense Petite, but I just find this silly. As has been hashed, rehashed, and hashed again, it's all about balance, not about a number. If a wine reaches 15% abv but is able to maintain balance, and of course, has the structural components for aging, it will age as well as a wine of 13%. If, on the other hand, the wine has achieved that 15% through over-extraction, and it becomes all about fruit and lacks structure, then sure it will fall apart in short order.

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What irks me is that many out there attempt to achieve certain phenolics/tannins/sugar levels regardless of what mother nature is allowing for in that given year, and despite what is best suited to the region, site, or microclimate the wine is being made in. This "forcing" has great winemakers, and properties in California, and other places, IMHO, not putting their best foot forward.

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Originally posted by Eric White:

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Originally posted by dr.darkrichandbold:
I'm not sure I understand? I've seen great well balanced wines come out of nearly every region. I can't think of a well respected region that is unable to make wine that is balanced and capable of achieving "physiologic ripeness" (an ambiguous term that is undefinable and a popular buzz word in the wine world BTW...).

I'd love to see someone more knowledgeable chime in here (Stefania, where are you?), but I'm not so sure it is undefinable. I think phenolic maturity is a real and tangible thing that can be measured by such things as sugar levels in the stems, characteristics of the seeds, etc.

Anyhow, I am obviously not MoselleLuxemburg, but what I think he is alluding to is the effects of climate change, not conditions as they are today. What if temperatures rise to the point where grapes are ripening too quickly, before full phenol development takes place. Then you wind up with high sugar levels, but immature flavors. This is why vintners are often hoping for hang time, so the grapes progress slowly enough.

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Conceptually, it helps to distinguish two distinct ripening processes in grapes. I should add that this is perhaps a slightly simplistic dichotomy that is disputed by some, but I think it serves a useful conceptual purpose.

Sugar ripeness: as the grapes mature, the sugar levels rise and the acid levels decrease.
Phenolic or physiological ripeness: changes in tannins, reduction in methoxypyrazine levels, leading to ‘flavour ripeness’.
In cool climates, the physiological ripeness precedes sugar ripeness. Indeed, throughout much of Europe, the only measurement required as harvest time comes round is the level of sugar in the grapes. Once this reaches a certain level, you can assume that the grapes are ripe. And in many regions, the addition of sugar to the must in a process known as chaptalization is carried out because full sugar ripeness hasn’t been achieved. Acid levels are commonly quite high at harvest in cool climates.

In ideal climates the two ripenesses intersect: physiological maturity is reached at a sensible sugar level, where the acidity is also at the appropriate level.

In warm climates, physiological ripeness frequently trails sugar ripeness. Thus winemakers who wait for physiological ripeness often have to contend with high sugar and thus high alcohol levels, and need to acidify, too. Generally speaking, a lack of physiological ripeness is more detrimental to wine quality than a lack of sugar ripeness: it’s much easier to correct for a lack of sugar ripeness than it is to correct for a lack of physiological ripeness. This is because many of the compounds involved in physiological ripeness are antifeedants: the green-tasting methoxypyrazines and bitter tannins are presumably intended to make immature grapes unpalatable to birds. They decrease as the grape matures, to the point where the vine is ready to let the birds to take the grapes to propagate the seeds.

Sugar levels can also increase by desiccation, where the grapes lose water, concentrating both sugar and acidity. This is dubbed ‘saggy grape syndrome’, because of the way that the skins begin to pucker.

In recent years there has been more of an emphasis on achieving flavour/physiological/sugar ripeness through later picking. This is where we encounter the phenomenon known as ‘hang time’. Where harvest occurs in the autumn, picking decisions are often influenced by weather concerns: the grapes are brought in before the autumn rains. In warmer climates with settled harvest weather, the grapes can be left as long as needed: the temptation is to pick late, allowing what is known as ‘hang time’. It is controversial, because changes occur to the tannic structure and the fruit profile, which, in its most extreme incarnation results in wines that show ‘dead fruit’.

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That article surely does not claim to be the undisputed truth. Also i understand DRAB is not just talking about natural sugar levels.

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Originally posted by Eric White:
I'd love to see someone more knowledgeable chime in here (Stefania, where are you?), but I'm not so sure it is undefinable. .