I think all the excuses for not listing prices on the on-line wine list are a bunch of B.S.. It's a matter of laziness, or snobbery. I don't expect the list to be updated daily, and if one or two bottles out of 150 happen to be a few bucks higher price when I show up to a restaurnat, so be it. Just list the prices with a disclaimer that prices subject to change with market conditions, then state the list was updated as of such and such date. Easy to do. If your restaurants want to attract wine enthusiasts, and want us to stob brining our own bottles, do us the courtesy of posting accurate lists on-line. We will be lining up to spend money at your establishments if you have a nice selection at reasonable mark-up.

I don't mind that the prices aren't posted, they're usually 2-3 times retail anyway so it's pretty easy to figure out. What bugs me is when they have a "reserve" or "library" list which they don't advertise. I always get the impression that the soms are "protecting" their turf or intellectual property or something. Hey guys, you're a cut above a DJ! Get over it!

quote:

Originally posted by tanglenet:
I don't mind that the prices aren't posted, they're usually 2-3 times retail anyway so it's pretty easy to figure out. What bugs me is when they have a "reserve" or "library" list which they don't advertise. I always get the impression that the soms are "protecting" their turf or intellectual property or something. Hey guys, you're a cut above a DJ! Get over it!

C'mon tanglenet, did you fall asleep in PSY101?? It's called operant conditioning!

Talk to the sommelier and get a positive treat!

You can do it...really...!

quote:

Originally posted by chaad:
C'mon tanglenet, did you fall asleep in PSY101?? It's called operant conditioning!

School was so long ago I don't even remember if I took a pysch class, so I had to Google your reference.

I did take a Women's Physiology Class (for biology?) but that story includes LUGS (Lesbians Until Graduation) and I don't want to digress...

Your reference is to BF Skinner?

The only memorable thing I remember about Skinner was his proposal for the War Dept (the US Govt. hadn't changed the name to the (Orwellian) Defense Dept. yet) for training pigeons to guide missiles to their target. The aforementioned pigeons would be placed in the nose cone of the missile pecking at a screen until their untimely demise. For some reason, the military (in their wisdom) never used his system for lobbing nuclear and / or conventional warheads based on the action of birdbrains.

However, maybe Mr. Shanken, could use this method for his critics when they taste wine?

Peck, peck, peck...90pts!

Peck, peck, peck...78pts!

Peck, peck, peck...gravel!

Peck, peck, peck...I'm not paid enough!

Peck, peck, peck...this wine is good! What was I saying?

quote:

Originally posted by chaad:

quote:

Originally posted by James Molesworth:
Hw can someone run a restaurant without a $100 laser printer in the office? There's no excuse for not maintaining the list in house. Blaming the distributors for the problem is just lazy...

I have my list printed out-of-house because we decided to use oversized 11x17 paper that does not fit our $100 office printer!

People need to be aware that many restaurants do not carry huge stocks of wine, and employ what would generally be known as "just-in-time" inventory, reordering wine as needed. This situation allows small restaurants to offer a wider a selection of wines, but does create the risk of uncontrolled outtages and vintage shifts because they have to rely on wholesaler inventory.

I would imagine that because less money is tied up in inventory, it allows the restaurant to offer their wines at lower cost to the dining public, as well.

That is my situation, at least.

Isn't having your list printed off-site *more* difficult than editing a page on your website. Sounds like a "constraint". (In fact, couldn't the updated website page be the source document for the printer?)

So, yeah, JIT is part of the business, so it should be part of the process. Do you use the same lame excuse to not update you in-house wine list? How's it any different?

My friends' bistro prints a menu daily because it changes daily with what's fresh, exciting and in season. Their wine inventory turns over regularly, so a new wine list is printed when necessary (couple times a week). Nice paper, laser printer, easy. If they had a website to update, it would take a few extra seconds...

quote:

Originally posted by yhn:
Isn't having your list printed off-site *more* difficult than editing a page on your website. Sounds like a "constraint". (In fact, couldn't the updated website page be the source document for the printer?)

So, yeah, JIT is part of the business, so it should be part of the process. Do you use the same lame excuse to not update you in-house wine list? How's it any different?

My friends' bistro prints a menu daily because it changes daily with what's fresh, exciting and in season. Their wine inventory turns over regularly, so a new wine list is printed when necessary (couple times a week). Nice paper, laser printer, easy. If they had a website to update, it would take a few extra seconds...

You seem confused. I was replying to Molesworth's assertion that there was no reason not to maintain an in-house list when laser printers cost $100. My position was that there is, namely stylistic considerations, which in my case dictated an oversized sheet of heavy stock that the $100 printer couldn't accommodate.

You call it a constraint, and so it would seem that you are getting close to understanding; it is indeed a trade-off. The winelist looks cool, but is more difficult to print, that's the trade-off. How you weight those two factors depends on your position and objective.

"Keyboard restaurateurs" are in the position of not knowing how either the food or wine businesses operate, and their objective is self indulgent rather than service driven.

Now, I don't mean to suggest that restaurant wine lists always get it right, I know they often don't. Lack of consideration and laziness are often culprits, for sure, but there are other reasons for a wine to be out of stock, or a vintage to be changed, even when a list is diligently cared for.

This understanding is all I was hoping to bring to the discussion.

Finally, yhn, my website offers a downloadable .pdf file of the current winelist, which is, as you guessed would be efficient, the source document for the printing of the winelist.

You were responding to James with what sounded like an excuse for you not using a laser printer. It sounds like you have an efficient system of keeping your winelist up to date, so that wouldn't be a constraint.

You don't understand, clearly, the bistro I'm holding on a pedestal. No website. No advertizing. Always full. Very wine friendly. Customers are mostly locals, mostly regulars. Maybe you can tell me who some of the customers are. Think world famous winemakers, CEOs and political figures who live(d) in the Palo Alto area.

And think locally grown exotic organic heirloom produce, caught that morning seafood, reknowned pastry chef, etc. The menu has to be printed daily.

quote:

Originally posted by yhn:
You were responding to James with what sounded like an excuse for you not using a laser printer. It sounds like you have an efficient system of keeping your winelist up to date, so that wouldn't be a constraint.

You don't understand, clearly, the bistro I'm holding on a pedestal. No website. No advertizing. Always full. Very wine friendly. Customers are mostly locals, mostly regulars. Maybe you can tell me who some of the customers are. Think world famous winemakers, CEOs and political figures who live(d) in the Palo Alto area.

And think locally grown exotic organic heirloom produce, caught that morning seafood, reknowned pastry chef, etc. The menu has to be printed daily.

I'm in, when are we going?

quote:

Originally posted by tlily:

I'm in, when are we going?

You paying?

you bringing wine? I'll pick up the tab.

quote:

Originally posted by -:
I am the kind of guy who may look at a wine list and if it is too expensive decide I should not go there (if I were in fact going for wine). Now if the food looks good and there is a nice wine list without pricing, I may wonder, but not experience the same shock as looking at wines with 400% markups (I want to say Chez Loma). I suspect they do this for people like me. From a distance I am rational and budget minded. In the moment, I tend to get carried away and say "oh, why not"?

Whats your thoughts on wine lists posted online that do not even remotely resemble what they have on hand at the moment? I think that is even worse, especially if one made plans based on it.

I agree that your latter scenarios is the worst. For a while I was desperate to try Napanook - and 2 restaurants that listed it online in Boston were out when I went to order at dinner.

Did you have a bad experience at Chez Loma?

I loved that place - I brought a bottle of EOS Cupa Grandis Petit Sirah '02, which we let the waiter taste. He agreed it was one of the most complex sirahs - it was almost like Meritage in the way it evolved in the mouth