Curious to hear what you forumites plan to buy among the '05 CdPs...

Are Rhône wines more attractive than Bordeaux, Burgundy or California these days, simply because of price?

Do you like a classic, structure vintages for the cellar, versus a more open-knit vintage like '04, or heat-influenced vintage like '03?

James,
I have been more passionate about southern Rhones than Bordeaux or Burgundy since the 2001 vintage. Price is a major factor, but Chateauneuf-du-Pape is ready to drink sooner, easy to evaluate when younger, but can still hold for decades in the cellar. Prices may have increased recently, but you can still by some of the best wines of the region for less than $100 a bottle.
I can’t wait to try the 2005s! The 2004 Telegraphe is probably the estate’s best yet, so I will be jumping on the 05s. I will pick up some Rayas, too.

Troll!

CdP still represents good value, but not as good as it was even 2 years ago. Regular Beaucastel has gone up from about $40 in 01 to about $75 in 04. Still a decent price for a high caliber wine, but it's getting up there now. I've seen similar increases across CdP.

I will buy about 2 or 3 mixed cases of 05 to lay down. I won't hunt specific ones on the web, I'll just peruse the stores and see what shows up when.

I prefer the classic ones for the cellar. However, I did find a lot of good 2004. Looking forward to see the ageing capabilities of those. 2003 in general was too jammy in style for me.

For 2005 I will for sure buy:
Pegau
Beaucastel
Roger Sabon
Vieux Telegraphe

And in addition I would like to taste, before buying:
Janasse
Brunel
Usseglio
Clos des Papes
Vieux Donjon

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by how well the '04s age. They are not huge, but they are balanced and very consistent. It's a great vintage to have while waiting for the '03s and '05s to mature, and I didn't skip any of the producers I usually buy for my cellar.

Your '05 'must buy' list is solid. Clos des Papes and Vieux Donjon are real standouts in '05 as well...

It's my experience (so far, I must add) with the 2003 from both Clos des Papes and Vieux Donjon, why they are on the "need to try them first" list. They would normally be on my "for sure" list.

Thanks for your thought on the 04s. I really found them balanced and elegant, which is a style I like.

Which ones are you bringing to your cellar, James?

I have always been enamored with the '89 Beaucastel. It is a benchmark wine for me. I've had it about 5-6 times now and it's always been amazing. But, I've never been a big Rhone fan until recently.

Escalating prices in Bordeaux (ridiculously escalating!) and CA, have made Rhone and to some degree Burgundy, look cheap. And, as such, they have been my new areas of exploration.

So far for '04 I've bought Pegau and Beaucastel. Once these wines get up above 15+% I lose interest. I like a more traditional style (the '03 Bernard Levet Cote Rotie, La Chavaroche to be precise, was a phenomenal wine!). So far, I prefer N. Rhone/Cote Rotie to Southern Rhone. But, both are quite interesting. And, for now at least, there is still an affordable area of good quality, agable, food friendly wines to explore!

For my palate, I've had great luck with the 04s across the board. In particular have really liked some of the newer producers, e.g. Isabel Ferrando's two wineries (is it true Colombis is not all grenache in 05?).

On the 05s, I'm with Grossie in that I'll do at least a couple cases but probably as I taste through the retailer's stock locally. I have one LWS that does great on south Rhone, both inventory and price, so I have pretty good luck at retail.

Squirreljam: In '05 Colombis is no longer just the Colombis parcel (sandy soils) - but it also includes fruit from another parcel, Les Roues, which has clay soils. It is still 100 percent Grenache though.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: James Molesworth,

dr. - good to hear you liked Levet's '03, I thought it was rocking too. But I'd hardly call it traditional - normally his wines are, but in '03 the vintage profile takes over. He has a new cuvée in '04, called Les Journaries.

On a side note - Levet sells a lot of his grapes to négociants - so if you like his La Chavaroche that much, track down Tardieu-Laurent's Côte-Rôtie, which includes some of that fruit...

As for the alcohol issue, it's true many Rhônes clock in easily at 14, 15, 16 or more. But the good ones don't show heat or imbalance - they are wines that wear their alcohol well IMO...

clos des papes
vieux lazaret(reg and cuvee exceptionelle)
vieux telegraphe la crau(and regular cuvee)
pegau
Bois de Boursan(cuvee felix)

I actually higher acidity and fresher flavour profile of the 2004 clos des papes to the 2003 so I don't know how 2005 will turn out to be.

Mimik: The '05 Clos des Papes is the best of both worlds, in terms of fruit and structure...

2005 Kirkland Cuvee de Nalys. Yes from Domaine de Nalys, a good producer. Costco $19.95. Had one last week. Picking up a few more today after work.

I have no set plan, but my usual suspects are:

Marcoux
Telegraphe
Pegau
Donjon
Beaurenard Boisrenard
Clos de Caillou
Clos de Caillou les Quartz
Bosquet des Papes Chante le Merle
Clos des Papes

I haven't bought any yet. I certainly won't buy everything from that list. It'll depend on early reviews (I haven't read yours yet, James, although I am eager to) and on what I can find for what prices.

The most likely candidates for me are Telegraphe for the more, I guess, traditional, almost Burgundian style. And Pegau, Marcoux, Beaurenard Boisrenard and Bosquet des Papes for the more lush style. But I probably won't even buy everything off of that list. We'll see...

On the '03 Levet La Chavaroche, I completely agee -- awesome wine! I was the one who turned DRAB on to it Then I brought over a '99 Tardieu-Laurent Cote Rotie the next time we got together and it was corked!

I agree the vintage was a major factor in the style of the Levet '03 -- I've had it from past vintages and it is very traditional in those vintages. I think part of what made it so good though is that, while being really extracted, there is not a hint of over-the-top-ness to it despite the warm vintage, proably because he is such a generally traditional producer. Is the Les Journaries another vineyard? A reserve-type wine? A lower-priced typw wine? (I think the La Chavaroche is a steal, actually.)

Pegau
Vieux Telegraphe
Vieux Donjon
And probably others, depending what I see in stores.

I haven't bought Beaucastel since the '01 vintage. The price increase grossie stated is the reason.
And I used to buy 750 and mags of it.

quote:

napacat
Member
Posted Jun 22, 2007 01:09 PM Hide Post
2005 Kirkland Cuvee de Nalys. Yes from Domaine de Nalys, a good producer. Costco $19.95. Had one last week. Picking up a few more today after work.
Posts: 410 | Location: Rochester Hills, Michigan | Registered: Nov 29, 2001

Napacat,

TN please?

I am excited about the 2005 vintage and CDP in general. I just love the wines.

In regards to purchases I think I am most excited about:

Saint Prefert Charles Giraud
Saint Prefert Auguste Favier
Clos Des Papes

I really like both these wines and it appears they are going to be awesome. I also like Vieux Telegraphe and Pegau, but we'll see how the budget is holding up. It's easy to get carried away!

I've really enjoyed the Alain Jaume Domaine Grand Veneur, both the regular bottling and the "Les Origines," from the 03 and 04 vintages. Great values for the dollar.

James, I didn't see any mention of those wines, and the 05 is on the shelf at my store here, is it a strong buy again this time around?

CdP is our favorite wine, so it gets the largest proportion of our cellar. We're buying it because we like it moreso than because it's relatively less expensive than 2005 Bordeaux for instance.

I plan to get more of 2005 than I have of other vintages and the usual suspects: Beaucastel, Vieux Telegraph, Pegau, Charvin, Vieux Donjon.

While we have your attention James, I'd like to ask you about drinking windows. It seems that you give CdPs much longer aging times and longer tasting windows than the previous Rhone editor. Is that a difference in the editors' perspectives, or has CdP changed in its winemakign style in the last decade?

My reviews on the Alain Jaume '05s will be in the Aug. 31 issue, out in a week or so, I think...

James any feedback on the Domaine Moulin Tacussel or the Clos des Brusquières??

I'd say the drink recommendation difference is because of a difference in our respective opinions.

I feel top CdP generally drinks well for 2-3 years, then shuts down for 5-8 years, before reemerging and going for another 10 to 20, depending on vintage, producer (and assuming proper storage of course)...

And as much as I like young wines, I do really think CdP is at its best with significant age...

James:

I'm looking forward to your reviews.

As for your questions:

1) Rhones are much more attractive than Bdx or Burgundy because of price. That being said, how much I buy depends on price. Based on what I have seen re: PC pricing, it will be little to nothing. Despite the "bargain" prices compared to the other regions, most of my favorite CdPs, such as Pegau and Janasse Chaupin are rising too fast for me. I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 cases of mixed N and S Rhones, with many of the Pegau and Chaupin purchased from $30-40. Even the '04s were $45 and less. While the Pegau used to be at $60 for the '05s (March at PC), Dan Kravitz is talking about $80-85 on release, and I will be passing anywhere near that price. Please help me find more bargains to replace the old standbys that will go to somebody else's cellar.

2) I enjoy both styles, structured and open knit. There is room for both in the cellar, with the '99s and possibly '04s for earlier drinking while the more structured vintages age.

3) Rhone wines are attractive to me period, both Southern and Northern. The price is not the ONLY reason they are attractive. And frankly, price seems like it has moved beyond being attractive on anything but a relative basis compared to Bdx and Burgundy.

How about that, I posted about wine!

THIII

I plan to pick up a case of the Usseglio mon aieul - I have a few of the '01's and it knocked my socks off recently. I don't hear much about this one though.

I'll pick up another mixed case or so after tasting through some of the offerings. In '04 I picked up a case of VT.

Thanks for chipping in. James
On a trip to Provence last summer, I did get a chance to meet with quite a few Rhone producers (Bosquet des Papes, Alain Jaume, Chateau La Nerthe ...).
A standout for me was tasting a 1981 Chateau la Nerthe and a few Cuvee des Cadettes 1998, I am keeping a few of those for later, they are indeed awesome.
My question is : how do the la Nerthes stack up against the competition in '05. Here in Quebec we only get the regular cuvee, not the Cadettes