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I just saw this on Erobertparker.com. They are ordering wine from other retailers and then report the shipping code violations to the State authorities. If true, this is a really pathetic and sad thing of Wine.com to do. I won't buy from them again. See link below...

http://www.vinography.com/archives/2008/01/winecom_gives_retailers_and_co.html
 
Posts: 253 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: Dec 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So wine.com sells their wines legally and is being hurt by illegal competition and is pointing out the illegal acts to authorities? What is it that wine.com is doing wrong? Good for them for not sitting still while business is being stolen from them.

I'm sure they're crying over losing your business. Roll Eyes


Just one more sip.
 
Posts: 36740 | Location: NY | Registered: Oct 18, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This goes back to big companies bullying little companies. It's not enough that they have a huge market share, but to go to private entrapment to gain more of an edge. They're being petty and ridiculous. Trust me, I'm not the only one who will no longer buy from them.
 
Posts: 253 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: Dec 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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They're not bullying them; they're reporting illegal activity. I'm sure they'll miss all of your and the other complainers' business NOT. If you owned the company, I'm sure you'd be thrilled to let others steal business from you with their illegal activity.


Just one more sip.
 
Posts: 36740 | Location: NY | Registered: Oct 18, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
They're not bullying them; they're reporting illegal activity. I'm sure they'll miss all of your and the other complainers' business NOT. If you owned the company, I'm sure you'd be thrilled to let others steal business from you with their illegal activity.


And I'm also sure that most consumers that are in non-ship states (I'm in CA, doesn't affect me as much) are just THRILLED that they'll have to pay the higher prices on Wines from Wine.com than they would normally have to. All because Wine.com wanted a little extra business.

Then again, you are right, it's not all Wine.com's fault. It's the stupid shipping rules that various states have. Still, kind of a crappy thing to do all for an extra buck.
 
Posts: 253 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: Dec 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I won't be buying from Wine.com. Oh wait, I live in the great no ship state of TN. I guess I won't be buying wine from any online retailer. Jeers to Wine.com for screwing the little guy.
 
Posts: 38 | Registered: Apr 29, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That's what big businesses need to do to remain big businesses...knock around the little guys and reap the profits. A business would NOT be IN business if it didn't try to maximize profits. If you don't care for capitalism than you may want to think about moving abroad.


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Posts: 3010 | Location: San Luis Obispo, CA | Registered: Mar 21, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What an idea! I am going to start performing citizen's arrests on people who are speeding.
 
Posts: 743 | Location: Novato, CA | Registered: Dec 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Brettay:
What an idea! I am going to start performing citizen's arrests on people who are speeding.


Great idea!

If you do it enough, you just might get the entire road to yourself!


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I'm throwin' rocks tonight. Mark it, Dude.
 
Posts: 3010 | Location: San Luis Obispo, CA | Registered: Mar 21, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yonster24,

Would you be outraged if Microsoft went after little guys that were selling counterfeited copies of Office shipped in from China?

I'm certainly not a fan of the various state laws that limit interstate shipping by retailers, but unfortunately, thats the environment we live in. Short of changing the laws, what wine.com is doing perfectly fine. I'm not 100% sure of their business model, but I'd guess that they have had to set up operations and purchase/rent warehouse space in many states to be able to offer shipping to the largest number of people and states. There are costs associated with that model, but it ensures legality in the markets served. Nothing wrong with protecting your investment. Don't like it, work to change the laws, but it would have to start with the US Constitution if you want uniformity.

I've never ordered from them, mainly because I haven't found them competitive to local shops


"I'm going back to gator country where the wine and the women are free" - Molly Hatchet
 
Posts: 3188 | Location: Valrico, Florida | Registered: Jan 27, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by dannyk8232:
If you don't care for capitalism than you may want to think about moving abroad.


This isn't really an example of capitalism. Besides in a purely capitalist system I don't think the shipments of these online retailers would qualify for any sort of legal violations. Capitalism is about supply and demand and competition setting the prices for consumers. How exactly does what wine.com is doing exemplify that?

This is a bit like a pretty lady laying naked in a lawn chair next door to you, and as you go out into your drive way she yells for you come over and sit down with her for a while. Then, just as you pass the no trespassing sign at the edge of her lawn, she quickly dials 911 and reports you for trespassing.
 
Posts: 231 | Location: Chapel Hill, NC | Registered: Feb 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Numenor:
This is a bit like a pretty lady laying naked in a lawn chair next door to you, and as you go out into your drive way she yells for you come over and sit down with her for a while. Then, just as you pass the no trespassing sign at the edge of her lawn, she quickly dials 911 and reports you for trespassing.


This happens to me all the time!


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Posts: 2645 | Location: Edmonton | Registered: Feb 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've never ordered from them, mainly because I haven't found them competitive to local shops


More importantly, they're not competitive to their real competition - internet wine retailers.

This story sucks. Moreover, wine.com sucks *ss! I shudder to think what this will do to the consumer. Since they don't really have the power to change the state distribution laws (the liquor distributors have seen to that by massive lobbying tithes to the legislatures), the average wino will be faced with higher prices and fewer choices.

Again, wine.com sucks *ss...
 
Posts: 962 | Location: Ellicott City, MD | Registered: Dec 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Chilepepper:
Yonster24,

Would you be outraged if Microsoft went after little guys that were selling counterfeited copies of Office shipped in from China?

I'm certainly not a fan of the various state laws that limit interstate shipping by retailers, but unfortunately, thats the environment we live in. Short of changing the laws, what wine.com is doing perfectly fine. I'm not 100% sure of their business model, but I'd guess that they have had to set up operations and purchase/rent warehouse space in many states to be able to offer shipping to the largest number of people and states. There are costs associated with that model, but it ensures legality in the markets served. Nothing wrong with protecting your investment. Don't like it, work to change the laws, but it would have to start with the US Constitution if you want uniformity.

I've never ordered from them, mainly because I haven't found them competitive to local shops


How does counterfeited copies even come close to what this is? This is like Microsoft reporting on Violations that someone is selling the same kind of software in their area and they want the whole area to themselves. So instead of ignoring it and keeping consumers and competitors happy, they have to hoard the business and piss a lot of people off.

Look, I understand why they did it, they want to maximize profits. But I'm pretty sure they would have done fine without that business. And the bad publicity it brings is even worse. They should have just left well enough alone.
 
Posts: 253 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: Dec 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well said Festiva!

I've never found them to be 'in the running' regarding pricing. Ever! The biggest loser out of any of these rediculous shinnanigans will be the consumers themselves. Just another example of rediculous, petty B*ll Sh*t. Mad
 
Posts: 15356 | Location: Montreal, QC | Registered: Feb 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Yonster24:

How does counterfeited copies even come close to what this is? This is like Microsoft reporting on Violations that someone is selling the same kind of software in their area and they want the whole area to themselves. So instead of ignoring it and keeping consumers and competitors happy, they have to hoard the business and piss a lot of people off.

Look, I understand why they did it, they want to maximize profits. But I'm pretty sure they would have done fine without that business. And the bad publicity it brings is even worse. They should have just left well enough alone.


I guess I need to repeat an important point where Board-O said, "they're reporting illegal activity". Just as Microsoft will report illegal counterfeiting.

I'm not saying I don't find the law anti-competitive, but it is the law and retailers must still operate within the law.

The law is the culprit, not wine.com


"I'm going back to gator country where the wine and the women are free" - Molly Hatchet
 
Posts: 3188 | Location: Valrico, Florida | Registered: Jan 27, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Numenor:
quote:
Originally posted by dannyk8232:
If you don't care for capitalism than you may want to think about moving abroad.


This isn't really an example of capitalism. Besides in a purely capitalist system I don't think the shipments of these online retailers would qualify for any sort of legal violations. Capitalism is about supply and demand and competition setting the prices for consumers. How exactly does what wine.com is doing exemplify that?

This is a bit like a pretty lady laying naked in a lawn chair next door to you, and as you go out into your drive way she yells for you come over and sit down with her for a while. Then, just as you pass the no trespassing sign at the edge of her lawn, she quickly dials 911 and reports you for trespassing.


Nope. Your argument is clearly missing the point.

The laws of capitalism encourage 'supply and demand setting the prices for consumers.' You left out the part about rules and regulations.


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Posts: 3010 | Location: San Luis Obispo, CA | Registered: Mar 21, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I agree it may seem a little petty but if you ran a business, and your competitors used illeagal undocumented workers to keep their production costs down and it hurt your business would you let it slide becuase it benefitted the consumer in the long run? Or would you rat them out to the labor board? Archaic or not laws are laws. You can't have everyone picking and chose which ones they like and obey and which ones they don't.

That said I doubt this will raise prices for consumers. Wine.com is never competitively priced anyhow, they don't have anything I can't find cheaper locally, but if the convenience of shopping from the desk is worth the extra money to their customers then good for them. They have things like a $3500 bottle of 2004 DRC Romanee Conti DRC that most people probably can't find even if they wanted to spend that much. Maybe the states will even consider repealing their outdated shipping laws rather than punish their businesses if they are continually brought to their attention, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the last part.
 
Posts: 2297 | Location: NH Seacoast | Registered: Oct 14, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
What is it that wine.com is doing wrong?

Taking action that is detrimental to consumers. It's NEVER a good practice for a business to make life more difficult for consumers.
 
Posts: 18 | Registered: Mar 01, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Chilepepper:
Would you be outraged if Microsoft went after little guys that were selling counterfeited copies of Office shipped in from China?

There are lots of issues here, but that's a bad example. Microsoft is protecting themselves from people who are selling Microsoft's property without buying that property from Microsoft. That's not the case here. Wine.com is just going after competitors.
 
Posts: 18 | Registered: Mar 01, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Icewino:
Maybe the states will even consider repealing their outdated shipping laws rather than punish their businesses if they are continually brought to their attention, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the last part.

In the near term, no. But no law is modified if met with in a passive, acceptive format. Laws that are tested are those that get change.

Maybe wine.com could spend a little more time on creatively improving their position in the market place, than spending time and energy on trying to muster up issues with smaller retailers. In the end, they're hurting themselves more with these practices, than anything else. It's a lose/lose scenario.
 
Posts: 15356 | Location: Montreal, QC | Registered: Feb 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Regardless of the legal and competitive issues involved here, wine.com is like the tattletale Judy on the TV show "Leave it to Beaver". No one likes a snitch.

wine.com still sucks *ss...
 
Posts: 962 | Location: Ellicott City, MD | Registered: Dec 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You're missing the point. They're protecting their business by reporting competitors' illegal activity. The fact that it might cost you something has caused you to rationalize your response defensively. wine.com is doing nothing wrong. The companies they've reported are.

If you don't like it, change the law. Criticizing them is hypocritical if you claim to be law-abiding.


Just one more sip.
 
Posts: 36740 | Location: NY | Registered: Oct 18, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by JavaMonkey:
quote:
Originally posted by Chilepepper:
Would you be outraged if Microsoft went after little guys that were selling counterfeited copies of Office shipped in from China?

There are lots of issues here, but that's a bad example. Microsoft is protecting themselves from people who are selling Microsoft's property without buying that property from Microsoft. That's not the case here. Wine.com is just going after competitors.


Yes, competitors that are breaking various state laws that wine.com has spent tremendous amounts of money to ensure they comply with.

Again, I'm just saying from a business perspective, what they are doing is right. They aren't bad for the consumer, the structure in which they are forced to operate is (i.e. state by state 3-tier systems)


"I'm going back to gator country where the wine and the women are free" - Molly Hatchet
 
Posts: 3188 | Location: Valrico, Florida | Registered: Jan 27, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Board-O:
If you don't like it, change the law. Criticizing them is hypocritical if you claim to be law-abiding.

I don't recall that specific part being a part of this thread. Razz Wink

IMO, challenging a law is accomplished by both protest AND testing.
 
Posts: 15356 | Location: Montreal, QC | Registered: Feb 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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