Would you spend $8,400 on 12 bottles of 2006 Cheval Blanc futures? That's the price.

Only if my name were Gates or Buffett.

quote:

Originally posted by James Suckling:
Would you spend $8,400 on 12 bottles of 2006 Cheval Blanc futures? That's the price.

You tryin' to start trouble on a holidy Mr. Suckling??

And to answer your questions, not a shot.

PH

Release prices for 2005/2006 are crazy. Driven by auction prices last year the chateaus are hoping that 1997 was a blip and they can start to try forcing up prices again.

Sadly this probably means that 2nd-5th growths will start following suit very shortly and us mere mortals will be pushed out from buying wine to lay down and drink.

James,

My approach is I can take half of the $700 per bottle cost and buy proven world class wines ready to drink and enjoy now. And if my bottle is off or corked, I can return it and get some other proven bottle of wine.

I will choose to save money and buy time proven winners now, opposed to hoping to enjoy 20+ years from now for that kind of money. I do not like the risk reward!

w+a

The Bordelaise can stick their wine were the sun doesn't shine. I double dare you to put that one in your wine blog!

As I have previously said many times, I'm finished with the Bordelais! There are better values and excellent quality wines being produced all over the World, and I'm not going to be dependent on the Chateaux of Bordeaux

This message has been edited. Last edited by: latour67,

quote:

Originally posted by latour67:
There are better values and an excellent quality wines being produced all over the World.

At the high end, that is true. But the mid and lower level Bordeaux can still offer good value. Case in point, yesterday I bought some 2004 Chateau Faugeres that Messrs. Suckling and Parker both gave a 90 to for only $20.

quote:

Originally posted by wineismylife:
The Bordelaise can stick their wine were the sun doesn't shine.

Ditto. There are too many better alternatives. No more Bordeaux for me. If you can buy the 99-100 point Hillside Select for $200, why spend another $500 on a wine not as good made by money-grubbing ingrates? Yet another reason to nuke France.

Happy Independence Day!

No one can touch Bordeaux for value.

On the high end, you can't touch them because the pricing is so absurd.

From $50 down, no other region has such good value in cab/merlot based wines. I can't buy them fast enough.

It always amazes me to hear people swear off Bordeaux because of what the top classified growths are doing. Unless you are a label chaser, you are missing the boat.

I consider buying those 88-90 Bordeaux as missing the boat. I'm not a label chaser; I'm a quality chaser.

vinole -- Bargains can be found everywhere, and Faugeres is a nice bargain, but I am primarily speaking to the First & Second Growths of Bordeaux. These are the Chateaux that have ruined my Bordeaux experience for all wines, and I'm through! I still have plenty of Bordeaux in the cellar, but I will not buy from those manipulators again!

Remember, this just didn't start with the 2005 vintage, this has been going on since 1995, and they just keep pushing the envelope. Enough!

If we are talking points, the ones I have been buying range from 89 to 93. Pricewise, from $25 to $40.

You are not a label chaser, so you buy HSS at $200??? If a better wine came along for $50, would you buy it?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: vintage,

I buy it because it's been scored 99-100 by reviewers I trust, because it's excellent wine. I buy 96 point Spanish wines whose labels are largely unknown.

quote:

Originally posted by vintage:
If we are talking points, the ones I have been buying range from 89 to 93. Pricewise, from $25 to $40.

You are not a label chaser, so you buy HSS at $200???

vintage -- I've been trying to get on the Shafer Hillside list because it is a quality wine. I don't think of myself as a "label chaser", and I sure do have a limit for spending on wine. Hillside Select consistently produces outstanding wine, and as long as the price is maintained at the current level, I'm there!

quote:

Originally posted by latour67:
vinole -- Bargains can be found everywhere, and Faugeres is a nice bargain, but I am primarily speaking to the First & Second Growths of Bordeaux. These are the Chateaux that have ruined my Bordeaux experience for all wines, and I'm through! I still have plenty of Bordeaux in the cellar, but I will not buy from those manipulators again!

Remember, this just didn't start with the 2005 vintage, this has been going on since 1995, and they just keep pushing the envelope. Enough!

I think nearly everyone on this board would agree that pricing on the First Growths and Super Seconds has gotten absurd. But some folks are suggesting writing off the whole region based on that, when there are many excellent wines at very reasonable prices. I bought 03 Branaire (RP95, WS93) for $34, 03 Pontet Canet (RP95, WS94) for $54, and 00 Leoville Poyferre (RP95, WS94) for $54. And those were not futures. If some want to write off the whole region, please do, and leave more for me.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: vinole,

I understand the HSS is a prestige wine that always draws universal high praise from all. It is stll a $200 + bottle of fermented grape juice.

I refuse to get on mailing list. It somehow seems so demeaning to wait in line to be forced to buy something. Once you get there, then you have to buy it every year, good or bad. I know it is the rage now to have something that virtually no one else has. BFD! I will not demean myself just so I show off the most with my friends. We are all entitled to our opinions, this just happens to be mine.

vintage -- I like your principles and discipline! Stick to them!

And then you see that.
It's the '05 but still, looks like people can STILL afford it, eh?
But to stay in the subject, which is '06 vintage, check that out. Nuff said.

Mailing list play directly into the male ego. Men always want to have the biggest house, fastest car, the prettiest wife/girlfriend, the best job, the most money, the best of everything, including the best wine.

Mailing list present you with a chance for exclusivity, as in, mine is better than yours and you can't have any. But I will let you have a sip of mine(just to show you what you are missing). I refuse to get sucked in and don't care to have those wines thrown in my face. It is nothing but showing off, IMHO. There is more great wine out there for me to choose from than I can ever possibly afford to buy.

It is just a marketing ploy to maximize the poducers profits. Usually, these guys do have to produce a good product, I am not questioning the quality. But they eliminate all middlemen, which is okay with me also. Then they create this limited availability thing, just like what the high end Bordeaux Chateau are doing. If they are successful at creating the illusion, then the sky is the limit on price. It is probably where Bordeaux got the idea from. I fail to see the difference. You refuse to let the French take advantage, but it's okay from American producers to do so.

I don't mean for this to sound so antagonistic, but I don't know how else to say it. You, and everyone else, is entitled to spend your money any way you wish, buy whatever you want any way you want. My rage is at the system, not any one person.

Talk about thread drift? Sorry!

quote:

Originally posted by James Suckling:
Would you spend $8,400 on 12 bottles of 2006 Cheval Blanc futures? That's the price.

If I was to blow $8400 at once like this, it would be on a Rolex, not 12 bottles of a wine that could be questionable if it will even be any good 20 years from now.

I will not be buying any of the way overpriced trophy wines. My 2006 list will be:

Pontet Canet
Montrose
Clos De Sarpe
Leoville Barton

Others that I will probably, but am not sure of
just yet are:

Estournal
Pichon Lalande
Pavie
Palmer

All are better than Cheval Blanc in '06, and all will outlive it as well.



vintage

You mentioned that Bordeaux can not be touched for the value. I love the wines of Bordeaux but I completely disagree.

There are wines from California for under $50 that are great values and can compete as well.
Wines from Sausal, Paradigm, Hendry(used to sell their fruit to Opus One), Cain Cuvee, Cain Concept, Turley, and this is just a small list. I am sure that many in here can list many others. I am sure there are plenty of great values under $50 from Washington and Oregon as well. I have also had some great Chianti's for under $50 as well.

As for swearing off what the top classified growths. I won't do that, but I sure won't pay the money they are asking for it. You can take a look at the list of the 2006's I will be getting. I am still getting great wine.

quote:

Originally posted by James Suckling:
Would you spend $8,400 on 12 bottles of 2006 Cheval Blanc futures? That's the price.

That's a bargain. Could spend more than that for a SINGLE BOTTLE of an '05 Le Pin. Check it out.

Would have bought some myself, but that extra 63 cents was a dealbreaker for me.

Mr. Suckling:
Would you? I mean, if it were your money, and not corporate funds.

JS,
Nice way to start the fireworks for the 4th!