There are all kind of talks regarding the ideal temperature of storing wine. Doesn't humidity play a big part of properly storing our collection? What's the ideal reading of humidity?

no

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Santa Cruz Mountains Vintage Chart

Temp should be about 55 degrees and the humidity shoud be about 70%. The humdity needs to be this high to prevent the corks from drying out.

Only the mediocre are always at their best.

nope, myth

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Santa Cruz Mountains Vintage Chart

ok, I'll stop being a smart ass. I looked for the thread but it's not around any more, it's a couple years old and this was well discussed. The 70% is a myth. Below 30 is bad, corks can dry out. Above 65-70% your labels will turn to mush. So anything over 30% is fine, up to 70% if you care about your labels.

It was well discussed, lots of links and documents.

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Santa Cruz Mountains Vintage Chart

I agree with tlily.

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"One may dislike carrots, spinach, beetroot, or the skin on hot milk. But not wine. It is like hating the air that one breathes, since each is equally indispensable."

Marcel Ayme`

It's all about the corks. Until they do away with the stupid things. Then humidity shouldn't matter a whit.

I am with tlily. Corks may crack, dry out and shrink (esp. long ageing) and ultimately causing leakage in the wines if the air becomes too dry.

At the same time, too much humidity can cause the labels to grow molds and mushy.

I am sure we want our wines to be in pristine condition, labels and all.

Thor

quote:

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Corks may crack, dry out and shrink (esp. long ageing) and ultimately causing leakage in the wines if the air becomes too dry.

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This is the myth of which tilly speaks. If your bottle is laying down, then the cork inside the bottle is wet. It is exposed to 100% humidity. No amount of normal range "dry air" from the outside will overcome the wetness of the cork that touches the wine. The wet cork expands, creating a perfect seal. No wine gets out, and no air gets in. Hence, if you lay your bottles down, the cork inside the bottle is exposed to such a high degree of humidity that no normal outside influence will ever have an effect. All but the driest Saharan climates have humidity that exceeds 30%. So unless you live in a desert, you don't need to artificially boost your humidity.

Let me pose this question. If nothing is getting in or out of the bottle that is laying on its' side because the cork is constantly wet and creating a good seal from inside the bottle then why would a wine that has been aging in a cellar for 20 years have a low shoulder fill?

Joe

Apples and oranges. The evaporation that causes low shoulder fill is the result of osmosis through the cork. The seal that is created by the expanded wet cork fills the gaps between the cork and the bottle. This is much more important. But because cork is porous, over time, it is possible for wine veeeerrrrry slowly to escape throught he cork. Higher humidity seeks out lower humidity to create equalibrium. But the humidity inside the bottle is so much greater, and the cork is only slightly porous that equilibrium cannot be achieved.

I know what you are thinking though. "If wine can get out, doesn't that mean that air is getting in?" No. The force of humidity escaping is much more powerful than the reverse (dry air entering the humid environment). If this were not true, then all bottles with low ullage would be oxidized. If you dip a sponge into a bucket of water such that only the tip is in the water, eventually the water will climb up the sponge and the sponge will be fully wet. This doesn't mean that outside air is simultaneously pushing its way down the sponge into the bucket. The force of the climbing water overcomes the force of the penetrating air.

So low shoulder fill does indicate evaporation. But outside humidity had nothing to do with it. I'll bet you've seen low shoulder fills that have been stored in damp caves/cellars for years. The extra humidity provided by that "perfect" storage condition did nothing to retard the process.

Here's Matt Kramer's take on it:
Kramer Article

It just seems to me that if "Higher humidity seeks out lower humidity to create equalibrium" the process would be slowed if the outside humidity was more closely matched to the inside humidity. I guess I'm being too logical or thick headed. Take your pick.

Joe

You're not being thick headed. In theory, you are correct. But adjusting the outside humidity (which is buffered from the cork by either a wax cap or foil), has little impact on a dime-size piece of cork. Perhaps over a long test period, the difference between 0% and 95% wold be noticeable. But the difference between 30% (dry by even Arizona standards) and 70% is essentially incalculable.

The ultimate storage conditions for wine is a cool humid cave, but that is for wine in the barrel. Wine evaporates through the pourous wooden barrels and in fact, over the course of aging a red wine for a couple of years in less than optimum conditions, you can lose 5% or more of your wine volume. That loss equals a lot of money.

Normal, ambient humidity is fine for cellar storage of bottles.

Make Cab, not War.

aav28, thanks for the topic. my cellar hovers at 70% but would be lower if i didnt have humidification. i've noticed this spring that the walls are showing some signs of mold. the cellar is 3 years old and this is the first i've noticed it. given the responses to your post, i'm likely to dial back the humidity a bit. thanks all.