All,

I am in the process of building my cellar and I just priced out wood for my racking - holy crap! If I use redwood, it will cost me over $1,000 just in WOOD! And, I still have to build the racks! Red cedar is not much better. I can make them out of pine for cheap, but I really do not like the color of pine. So, my question to you guys is two fold:

1. Does anyone have any experience painting racks made out of wood?
2. Does anyone have any experience staining and polyeurethaning racks?
If so, how long did you have to wait for the racks to cure and then stop stinking?

And while I am thinking about it, for those of you with wooden racks, what is the size of the opening in the rack for each bottle? Is it 3.5 inches?

Any and all help would be appreciated!

TripDaddy

Tripdaddy

The opening is 3 x 3.5; but I think you should consider going to Barnes and Noble to buy a book on building a wine cellar. You must be well-prepared to build the cellar with vapor barriers, sufficient insulation, and extra stablization to support the weight.

Also, if you own your a home, and do not plan to move in the immediate future, I would bite the bullit and buy the redwood racks. Also, be sure to include room for 1/2 bottles, Magnums, and 3 liter bottles!

Good Luck!

I'd agree with Latour67. There is not really a good less expensive substitute for redwood racking and racking does account for a significant portion of the cellar cost. I think along with the cooling unit, the racks account for 2/3 of the materials costs.

I got the least expensive redwood racking i could find. (www.rosehillwinecellars.com) Lots of assembly required, but now that they are assembled and installed, I would not trade the redwood for anything. They look great.

If you do look into building your own racks, I would consider doing mostly bin storage (ie diamond bins) rather than trying to build individual bottle racking. Be sure to calculate in your cost equations, the cost of your time and frustrations in building.

In regards to stain, lacquer, etc... I tried to use only latex paint due to the lingering odors of most stains and lacquers. It could take months to air out.

**********
When will I learn?
The answers to life's problems aren't at
the bottom of a bottle! They're on TV!
- Homer Simpson

I am currently in the process of building racking. I am using red oak and am staining as well as a coat of poly. The stain cures in about 12-16 hours and I have experimented with the poly and it takes about the same amount of time. I have a fan on the individual pieces of wood and it seems to cure faster. I just started this process so not sure how it will go but I don't mind the time, I will say that it will look pretty cool when I'm done.

SO much wine so little time.

You might also consider using low-odor products, AFM is a great company for them:

AFM Product Info Page

I am quite sensitive to chemical odors and have used their stain and polyureseal with no problem.

Nancy

Thanks for the advice everyone. I guess I am just being a cheap SOB about the whole racking thing. I built the racking for my last cellar out of pine and it held about 200 bottles. Grand total I probobly spent 125 on the wood for those racks! I know the redwood will be pretty, so I guess I just need to bite the bullet.

But, I am going to looking in the low odor poly. That might do the trick too.

The less I spend on the racks, the more for the wine!

TripDaddy

I suggest you take a look at the kits from www.vigilantinc.com that are made out of mahogany. I absolutely love mine...

Smaug - why diamond storage bins instead of individual bottle storage - can you fit in more bottles per area with bin storage or are the material costs less (or both)?

Except for aesthetics, there is nothing in the world wrong with pine. Mine is unfinished pine. If, however, you want to stain and seal it, I recommend water based stains and water based polyeurothane. Much less odor, and what little there is is totally gone in a day or two. I used that on one wall of my cellar where I wasn't sure what was behind the wall - already there - and wanted to seal it to prevent any odors from coming thru.
Let me second the suggestion to make bins. Diamond bins take up a lot of space, actually, and are hard to make. I went for diversity in my cellar. The south wall is all bins, either for full or half cases, with a shelf on top for full wood cases. The West wall consists of a rack of my own design. At the bottom are open bins that are slightly more than three bottles high - I think 10 inches - and of varying widths - 3.5, 7, 10 & 13 I think - to hold full cases, and 3, 6 and 9 bottle lots. Above that are vertical slots 3 1/2 wide, and 8 bottles high, some with dividers half way up. These are for verticals. On the north wall is individual storage, mostly for orphans and twins of some value, saved for the future. Some are half bottle, and some are Magnum sized. The east wall, which is short because of the door, is very similar to the west wall, but not as tall, with shorter bins below, and the vertical undivided slots are only 5 bottles high, with an open rack on the top to put a similar bottle. These twelve vertical slots with a display space at the top of each and with two bottle high bins below is for our daily wines - wines my wife can feel comfortable taking to a function, or giving as gifts, or opening before I get home, without my getting upset. I also have some hallway racks in our basement for some current stuff, and there I have some diamonds, as well as individual slots, and vertical slots with display space on top.
This diversity works really well for me.
This arrangement also has the advantage that it holds a lot of wine for not a lot of dollars, though it does take some time figuring it out. Bins hold a lot more wine per available space, and for available dollars. both of which were considerations in my case. In my case, the cost of the racks was approximately 50 cents a bottle.
Were I doing it again, I would build in more spaces for 3s, 4,s and 6s, which I how I buy most wine now.

Has anyone here ever looked into those side-display racks advertised in IWA?
You know, the ones that are made of metal, fit into slots on the wall, and hold the bottle so that they appear to be "floating" in mid-air, and the label can be seen clearly?

"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women!" --Homer Simpson

quote:

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Originally posted by The Volcano God:
Smaug - why diamond storage bins instead of individual bottle storage - can you fit in more bottles per area with bin storage or are the material costs less (or both)?

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I see Bins (whether diamond or rectangular) as easier to make, and also more accomodating of odd shape bottles. I would hate to see someone slave away at making their own individual bottle racks only to find that they are inconsistent in size and/or don't fit the burgundy bottles. Also, personally, I think diamond bins look cool.

I bought pre-fab racking and a nice mix of diamond bin, rectangular racks, and individual bottle racks (in which champagne and those annoying heavy glass pinots and syrahs don't fit).

**********
When will I learn?
The answers to life's problems aren't at
the bottom of a bottle! They're on TV!
- Homer Simpson

quote:

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Originally posted by mneeley490:
Has anyone here ever looked into those side-display racks advertised in IWA?
You know, the ones that are made of metal, fit into slots on the wall, and hold the bottle so that they appear to be "floating" in mid-air, and the label can be seen clearly?

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I never looked seriously at them. Seems like you need a whole lot of wall space to use them. Seems much less efficient use of space than the regular racking methods.

I briefly looked into the 'bordex' style racking as seen on wineenthusiast.com. Modular "tinker-toy" like construction makes them see rather useful. Decided I wanted redwood though.

**********
When will I learn?
The answers to life's problems aren't at
the bottom of a bottle! They're on TV!
- Homer Simpson

If you purchase the ones that are 2 or 3 bottles deep, it doesn't seem it would take up more space than regular wood racking.
I only asked because they don't quote a price in the catalog, and I can't find them at all on the website.

"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women!" --Homer Simpson

First, lot'sa luck(!) and second check out a website with a URL of http://www.stratsplace.com/cellaralbum.html there are pictures and descriptions of wine cellars of all sizes and shapes.

Tripdaddy,

Are you going to hold séances in this cellar? If it is to be like my last one, it will be dark, dusty and way under the house ... which you visit every now and then to raid a bottle. When you take a friend down, that person will be a wine fanatic, who won't care diddly about the racks only what is in them!

In which case, what is wrong with pine? But remember that the white ants like pine, so at least wash it in borate or seal with polyurethane. I suggest you do this outside and let this air for two or three days. As noted by one of the other posters NEVER use a spirit based stain, it will take about three weeks to air-off, and with no guarantee that it won't still have some left.

Another suggestion, one that I used, was to cut standard reinforcing mesh on the cross (so that the squares become diamonds). I used standard 4" x 4" x 1/4" mesh. I then sprayed this with 30% phosphoric acid, re-washed it and resprayed with a water-based steel primer, two coats. In ten years it never rusted.

That is the cheapest option, but if you want something that is a little less pragmatic (NZers ALWAYS take the cheap option, being poor relations to everyone), then BillH's suggestion of bins is by far the cheapest and the best option. My only addition to that would be to build the bins two bottles BIGGER than your normal purchase ... thus his 8 bottles (6 + 2)... and have some bins that hold 14 for those lines you buy in case lots.

Bins take up a lot less space than racks, are easier to build and as the three-ply walls are in compression and the 1 1/2" X 4" separators can be screwed through, they make a very strong unit.

Please remember to engineer-in a method to secure your unit to the structure of the house! I've seen so many racks teetering (and some that fell). You may not get too many 'quakes in GA, but even so , why take the risk for half a dozen bolts.